Pokemon Black & White, aka Gen 5. Coming to Japan in Fall 2010.

[Lucalibur]

omfg charizard was the cover from pokemon red! why is he not uber?! omfg entei is a legendary pokemon who show up on a super special moment in GSC and HGSS and he sucks a lot.

legendary is only a word you put in front of pokemon to show he is special or some random shit. for all we know he can turn out to be fail on both stats and movepool....well actually eletric and dragon alone get great coverage but what if he only learn draco meteor and t-bolt? nothing else? oh my bad, protect and rest too.

yeah i know zard is not a legendary but come on. he was the cover from the very first game, you would expect him to rip the metagame apart.


edit:well maybe people prefer blazing chickes over a kick ass megazord.

 

[Quagsire]

here i thought everyone wanted zekrom... majority wants reshiram lol.

fire type affinity maybe?

 

[Ming-Ming]

omfg charizard was the cover from pokemon red! why is he not uber?! omfg entei is a legendary pokemon who show up on a super special moment in GSC and HGSS and he sucks a lot.

Dude, settle down. You know you're just splitting hairs. Cover legendaries in general have BSTs over 600. Reshiram and Zekrom probably'll share that trait with other legendaries. It's obvious that Charizard, Blastoise, Venusaur, and Pikachu are exceptions to that rule, since they're not legendary. (Suicune is really the only exception to the cover legendary rule, considering its BST is under 600)

here i thought everyone wanted zekrom... majority wants reshiram lol.

fire type affinity maybe?

Actually, I feel the opposite. Most I know really desire Zekrom, the black "The Void"-esque dragon. I just like Reshiram because its angelic, rather than the fact that it's Fire-type (In fact, Ninetales is the only Fire type I really like. Go figure)

 

[Shroomisaur]

But what if his ability means every move hits for super effective...

he's a cover legendary.

you now realize you said something silly.

Glad T-Major could clear that up for you.

yeah i know zard is not a legendary but come on. he was the cover from the very first game, you would expect him to rip the metagame apart.

The difference here is that R/B/Y were based on starters, not legends, so this argument is pointless. And while Legendary status doesn't mean "auto-Uber", being a cover legendary (which assures 680 BST) is pretty close to automatic. Especially since we can expect powerful Abilities and stat distributions from them.

here i thought everyone wanted zekrom... majority wants reshiram lol.

fire type affinity maybe?

I thought more people liked Zekrom too, it's surprising how many support Reshiram (and the black doll thing - I will never understand)

Personally, I've never liked Fire-types in general, I like Electric much more. I'd have chosen Zekrom based on looks regardless, but the typings just cemented my choice.

EDIT: @Ming-Ming, I really don't see how Reshiram is "angelic". I just thought that was odd since I usually choose the angelic looking designs over demonic designs every time, but I just don't see Reshiram/Zekrom that way.

 

[Lucalibur]

sorry, kinda extressed today with some personal problems. my point is that being the legendary cover from a game dont mean auto-uber, he can get a BST 0f 680 but if the stats are put on the wrong place(50 special atack for a pokemon with a extensive special movepool for example) then shit can go wild. of course this is not likely to happen...but we are talking about gamefreak so until the game is out i prefer to be careful on talking about the tier he can stuck himself in.


also why everyone is picking the chicken over the megazord? come on people.

 

[Ming-Ming]

EDIT: @Ming-Ming, I really don't see how Reshiram is "angelic". I just thought that was odd since I usually choose the angelic looking designs over demonic designs every time, but I just don't see Reshiram/Zekrom that way.

It's the feathers and the overall design characteristics. It appears like a feathery dragon, and people know feathers are a calling card for angels and birds, y'know? ;^^

sorry, kinda extressed today with some personal problems. my point is that being the legendary cover from a game dont mean auto-uber, he can get a BST 0f 680 but if the stats are put on the wrong place(50 special atack for a pokemon with a extensive special movepool for example) then shit can go wild. of course this is not likely to happen...but we are talking about gamefreak so until the game i would prefer to be careful.

Pretty much that. The possibility exists that said legendary MAY suck, but you have the "plot excuse" of it having to be amazing, because legendaries are "powerful".

Really, the chances Reshiram and Zekrom being terrible are similar to the chance of successfully finding a needle in a haystack on your first draw.

also why everyone is picking the chicken over the megazord? come on people.

It's not a chicken? It's more like an angel bondage dragon with turbo boosters vs. mecha-dragon. Angels kick as much arse as robots, y'know. :\

 

[Critical_Hax]

Being an experienced Ubers player myself, I see Zekrom being quite important in the Ubers Meta, with STAB Thunder, STAB Draco Meteor and resisting all o Kyogre's attacks bar Ice Beam, making it a nice Check. I hope its at least 100 Base Speed, which makes sense, since Electrics are the traditional "fast" type, since I want him to outrun everything else. Granted, Reshiram could work well with Groudon, since it has amazing Dual STABs and it could be quite fast and hard hitting as well.

Since we can transfer pokes, I'm expecting TMs up to 92, (Trick Room), to remain the same, possibly with 25-50 new TMs, and the same HMs from Gen 4, though I could be wrong.

IMO, N will be very Cyrusesque

 

[Lucalibur]

power rangers never used chickens to beat the evil ya know? i would rather get inside zekrom head and drive him like a robot firing lazers around the city and stepping on schools than raise a oversized white chicken with a butt that fart explosive gas.

 

[IcyMan28]

Being an experienced Ubers player myself, I see Zekrom being quite important in the Ubers Meta, with STAB Thunder, STAB Draco Meteor and resisting all o Kyogre's attacks bar Ice Beam, making it a nice Check. I hope its at least 100 Base Speed, which makes sense, since Electrics are the traditional "fast" type, since I want him to outrun everything else. Granted, Reshiram could work well with Groudon, since it has amazing Dual STABs and it could be quite fast and hard hitting as well.

Since we can transfer pokes, I'm expecting TMs up to 92, (Trick Room), to remain the same, possibly with 25-50 new TMs, and the same HMs from Gen 4, though I could be wrong.

IMO, N will be very Cyrusesque

I agree with this. Personally, I find more appeal in Zekrom's ability to check Sacred Fire / Brave Bird / Sub / Roost Ho-oh, as it resists both STABs. Taking away Ho-oh's ability to sub or roost with impunity is great, given that it has few, if any, reliable checks. As far as checking Kyogre...I wouldn't be so hasty making that assumption. Unless its SpD is through the roof, it will probably still fall to Specs Water Spout / predicted Ice Beam, and it always risks Thunder paralysis. Just look at Dialga.

A few new TMs is expected and cool. I'm sure the typical Surf / Strength / Fly / Waterfall / Cut will remain, with a few wildcards thrown in. HGSS didn't keep Defog as an HM after all.

 

[Ming-Ming]

IMO, N will be very Cyrusesque

Nah, in Cyrus' case, he was more into machines, which probably led to his withdrawal of having people skills (Or at least his anime's incarnation) I think N'll be more like Aizen in terms of character (Though obviously not as ridiculous...)

power rangers never used chickens to beat the evil ya know? i would rather get inside zekrom head and drive him like a robot firing lazers around the city and stepping on schools then raise a oversized white chicken with a butt that make fire when i press the ON buttom.,

Yeeah, Power Rangers are definitely cooler than summoning lightning bolts from the sky and sending people to their eternal grave. Yes, that's perfect. (Ironic that I'm fighting a subjective matter when I'm against it, no?)

 

[Lucalibur]

yes its ironic. i will agree with you for now but we shall continue once i get my limited edition zekrom megazord.....and yes, power rangers>thunder cats.

new Tms? mach punch please. i always loved that move but never got why some pokemons dont learn. some other stuff like A VOLT TACKLE TM/move tutor would be nice. on a more serious matter. N look like a cool guy to tell the true. sure he glow in the dark but besides that i dont see why he would be considered a evil guy. i like his ideas.

 

[Critical_Hax]

As a general Rule of Thumb, Electrics tend to have quite good Special Defence as well so Zekrom should be able to live. Either it'll be faster, have very good SpD, or otherwise, it should enough BST leftover to make it potent elsewhere. Also, I'm not certain Zekrom will be able to effectively check Ho-oh, since Ho-oh that don't carry Sub carry EQ, and Electrics aren't know for being bulky. Lets not forget if the sun is up, Zekrom only has a 50% chance to Nail Ho-oh, and it likely won't OHKO given 154 Base SpD.

Personally, I'm quite excited for this generation for Ubers, since finally, we should be getting enough Ubers to create a diverse metagame. While I don't see Kyogre and Groudon falling down the list anytime soon, new blood is always welcomed (except Salamence who was already available anyway). Still, theres little point in guessing what the Ubers meta will be like. This talk of new field effects could very well revolutionise all metas.

 

[Spike Razzor]

Did anyone notice Isshu looks a lot like manhattan, ny... i mean it looks like an island surrounded by 2 rivers and with bridges... not to mention a huge metropolis city... also look at the ports around the two... also look at how lower manhattan is much larger than the rest and looks similar to huin city

GF did say that isshu is far away from everything else and manhattan is pretty far

isshu:
http://i29.tinypic.com/2qa1oxj.png
Manhattan:
http://i28.tinypic.com/2rf915f.jpg

Man I was just starting to ween myself off of Goddamn GTA IV which is still the game I play 90% of the time I'm on my console since it came out and now this shit, lol.

 

[Shroomisaur]

sorry, kinda extressed today with some personal problems. my point is that being the legendary cover from a game dont mean auto-uber, he can get a BST 0f 680 but if the stats are put on the wrong place(50 special atack for a pokemon with a extensive special movepool for example) then shit can go wild. of course this is not likely to happen...but we are talking about gamefreak so until the game is out i prefer to be careful on talking about the tier he can stuck himself in.

also why everyone is picking the chicken over the megazord? come on people.

Hey, no need for apologies, I understand where you're coming from... it's just a million to one shot that it's not going to be Uber! And the thought of Reshiram as a chicken is lol-worthy.

It's the feathers and the overall design characteristics. It appears like a feathery dragon, and people know feathers are a calling card for angels and birds, y'know? ;^^

Alright, I see where you're coming from now... guess my thought process should've just been: White + Feathers = Angel. :P

Pretty much that. The possibility exists that said legendary MAY suck, but you have the "plot excuse" of it having to be amazing, because legendaries are "powerful".

Really, the chances Reshiram and Zekrom being terrible are similar to the chance of successfully finding a needle in a haystack on your first draw.

Agreed.

It's not a chicken? It's more like an angel bondage dragon with turbo boosters vs. mecha-dragon. Angels kick as much arse as robots, y'know. :\
I lol'd. I like both of those too much to take a side. The only thing better than angels or mechs would be... angels piloting mechs!

Being an experienced Ubers player myself, I see Zekrom being quite important in the Ubers Meta, with STAB Thunder, STAB Draco Meteor and resisting all o Kyogre's attacks bar Ice Beam, making it a nice Check. I hope its at least 100 Base Speed, which makes sense, since Electrics are the traditional "fast" type, since I want him to outrun everything else. Granted, Reshiram could work well with Groudon, since it has amazing Dual STABs and it could be quite fast and hard hitting as well.

Since we can transfer pokes, I'm expecting TMs up to 92, (Trick Room), to remain the same, possibly with 25-50 new TMs, and the same HMs from Gen 4, though I could be wrong.

IMO, N will be very Cyrusesque

Yes, Zekrom will undoubtably be Uber for this reason alone... it will have a huge niche in Ubers play. It can not only check Kyogre, but be a good teammate for it too, absorbing Thunders and Grass Knots aimed at Kyogre.

To be honest though, Zekrom is looking to be much slower and bulkier than Reshiram. Fire types are also traditionally fast, so my guesses at this point would be something like:

Reshiram: 100/100/90/150/90/140
Zekrom: 140/90/90/150/100/100

Seems reasonable, imo. What are your opinions?

 

[IcyMan28]

As a general Rule of Thumb, Electrics tend to have quite good Special Defence as well so Zekrom should be able to live. Either it'll be faster, have very good SpD, or otherwise, it should enough BST leftover to make it potent elsewhere. Also, I'm not certain Zekrom will be able to effectively check Ho-oh, since Ho-oh that don't carry Sub carry EQ, and Electrics aren't know for being bulky. Lets not forget if the sun is up, Zekrom only has a 50% chance to Nail Ho-oh, and it likely won't OHKO given 154 Base SpD.

Personally, I'm quite excited for this generation for Ubers, since finally, we should be getting enough Ubers to create a diverse metagame. While I don't see Kyogre and Groudon falling down the list anytime soon, new blood is always welcomed (except Salamence who was already available anyway). Still, theres little point in guessing what the Ubers meta will be like. This talk of new field effects could very well revolutionise all metas.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it good. Rotom-A's base 107 is the highest, so I don't think Zecrom will have much higher than 110, especially since they are almost certain to eschew defenses in favor of SpA and Speed (typical of electrics). It might live, but will suffer horribly much like Dialga (who also sports a resist, and base 100 HP/SpD).

Though you raise a good point. More Ubers certainly shakes things up, and it should be fun to see how they play into things (though I don't see Kyogre or Groudon giving up their thrones anytime in the near future).

 

[Ming-Ming]

yes its ironic. i will agree with you for now but we shall continue once i get my limited edition zekrom megazord.....and yes, power rangers>thunder cats.

Well, I was thinking these guys, but oh well.

The only thing better than angels or mechs would be... angels piloting mechs!

If I wasn't dead-set obsessed with SMT, I'd put this as my sig in a jiffy. XD

And we better not get an HM as useless as Defog. That was basically Flash 2.0, but even worse. I mean, at least allowed it to remove hazards or barriers, or at... A thing.

 

[Lucalibur]

who the heck are those?

i HOPE we are not getting more useless HMs, flash was pathetic, defog was actually not 110% useless but meh...also if everything turn out well for zekrom and the chicken then i expect the ubers metagame to become a lot more fun.

 

[Ming-Ming]

who the heck are those?

i HOPE we are not getting more useless HMs, flash was pathetic, defog was actually not 110% useless but meh

The 4 Seraphs angels, and Metatron, as protrayed in the SMT series.

I certainly doubt we WON'T get anything useful. I mean, TMs like Shadow Claw and X-Scissor were pretty fun to use when you get 'em in-game, and Stealth Rock, the arguably most-broken move in the game, is received at the first gym! Yes, they'll be bad TMs (Silver Wind? Eh), but at the same time, I would hope that there's a lot of good to come from the new ones, like somehow... Blaze Kick and Leaf Blade? XP

And actually, what moves do you guys think will get buffs? I remember reading speculating that someone thought that the critical hit moves'll have higher base power, but what else needs "fixing", for the lack of a better word?

 

[blasphemy1]

Hey, no need for apologies, I understand where you're coming from... it's just a million to one shot that it's not going to be Uber! And the thought of Reshiram as a chicken is lol-worthy.



Yes, Zekrom will undoubtably be Uber for this reason alone... it will have a huge niche in Ubers play. It can not only check Kyogre, but be a good teammate for it too, absorbing Thunders and Grass Knots aimed at Kyogre.

To be honest though, Zekrom is looking to be much slower and bulkier than Reshiram. Fire types are also traditionally fast, so my guesses at this point would be something like:

Reshiram: 100/100/90/150/90/140
Zekrom: 140/90/90/150/100/100

Seems reasonable, imo. What are your opinions?

I don't think Zekrom will be THAT bulky, or Reshiram that fast:

Reshiram: 110/100/95/150/100/125
Zekrom: 110/100/95/150/125/100

 

[Critical_Hax]

@Shroomisaur

If Reshiram and Zekrom are anything like Dialga and Palkia, I can't see them being too different statistically, except for an outlier base 150 Stat, which could once again, be SpA. I'm curious to see i they'll be part of a trio, and I'm guessing the last one will be Dragon/Ice, since Ice not only parallels the Gen 1 Birds Typing Trio, but it can also be either natural, or man-made. Competitively though, its horrible, since Half the Ice Beam targets are weak to Draco Meteor anyway. Not to mention the SR weakness, and I do not see SR falling out of the meta anytime soon, nor it getting any less widespread.

As for the abilites Turbo Blaze and Tera Voltage, they are clearly something to do with the secondary STABs, but what, I'm not sure. I'm fairly certain its safe to say that it'll provide either a Stat Boost, or power boost, but I could be wrong.

IMO, if I was distributing the BSTs (and I'll assume 680 since its the most common and I'm expecting 720 to not be hit for a while until the Arceus of Gen 5 is released), I would see something like this happening.

Reshiram - 100/110/90/140/110/130

Zekrom - 110/140/110/130/90/100

My reasoning for this is Reshiram represents nature. 100/90/110 Defences reflect the frail nature of the natural, while 110/140/130 offenses support the act nature generally comes packing with Natural disasters that crush lots of humans before we are well prepared for them. As for Zekrom, as cool as it would be to see Zekrom firing lasers of 140 Base attack, the industrial half represents durability, hence 110/110/90 defences, though the 90 shows a little bit of weakness to nature (like rust). Plus, Zekrom and Reshiram, like Groudon and Kyogre, probably enjoy whaling (pun intended) on each other's weaker defences. 140/130/100 offensive stats show how industrial activity is destructive, and deorestation and all that shit is fast, yet not that fast.

People seem to think N is the main antagonist, but he is in nothing like a Uniform, and team plasma intrigues me. On one hand, Plasma is a natural elemental state for superheated gas to turn into, and its in blood, but on the other hand, plasma has energy like, possibly mechanical connotations. Good naming Gamefreak, but what does everyone think the plot will be like?

I will shoot myself if the first gym is Rock...

 

[Shroomisaur]

Well, I was thinking these guys, but oh well.

Nice pics...! Pretty obvious why you like Reshiram now, lol

If I wasn't dead-set obsessed with SMT, I'd put this as my sig in a jiffy. XD

Ohhh, the only thing worse than a sig-worthy quote going to waste is someone TELLING you it's sig-worthy, then wasting it :P

And we better not get an HM as useless as Defog. That was basically Flash 2.0, but even worse. I mean, at least allowed it to remove hazards or barriers, or at... A thing.

If we get another Flash / Defog, there'll be a riot.

The 4 Seraphs angels, and Metatron, as protrayed in the SMT series.

I certainly doubt we WON'T get anything useful. I mean, TMs like Shadow Claw and X-Scissor were pretty fun to use when you get 'em in-game, and Stealth Rock, the arguably most-broken move in the game, is received at the first gym! Yes, they'll be bad TMs (Silver Wind? Eh), but at the same time, I would hope that there's a lot of good to come from the new ones, like somehow... Blaze Kick and Leaf Blade? XP

And actually, what moves do you guys think will get buffs? I remember reading speculating that someone thought that the critical hit moves'll have higher base power, but what else needs "fixing", for the lack of a better word?

Hmm, well I'd say: Rock Smash increases to 60 BP and now removes Stealth Rock from play. And I think the trapping moves, like Wrap, Bind, Whirlpool and co. need their accuracies boosted so that they're more usable - their poor accuracy is still leftover from when they were broken back in Gen I (Glare+Wrap Ekans brings back memories...)

I like the fact that Wargle's new move is a fix to Dive/Dig's main problem: the enemy can switch at will. Hopefully there will be more moves like this. One other random move I'd like to see changed is Snatch - namely, I'd love to see it steal the effects of Entry hazard moves as well as healing/boosting moves; it would be a lot more useful.

EDIT: @Blasphemy, you do realize I was using the exact stat distribution pattern as Kyogre/Groudon? Nothing radical.
@Critcal Hax, I'd never thought about patterning their stats after their nature, interesting idea.

 

[T-major]

And actually, what moves do you guys think will get buffs? I remember reading speculating that someone thought that the critical hit moves'll have higher base power, but what else needs "fixing", for the lack of a better word?

Rock Slide becoming a rock type waterfall would be good. add 5 BP and make it 100% accurate and we're set. that, and power up the elemental fang moves.

 

[Critical_Hax]

Then what becomes of Stone Edge? I hate to think they would buff that so they could buff Rock Slide?

That just remined me of Aero, who is probably the only pokemon that can abuse Rock Slide's flinch. Do we forecast (castform pun intended), new fossil pokemon this gen? I mean, its supposed to be very far away from Japan, and fossils are everywhere right, so new species? Will piss myself if Desukan is a new fossil

 

[T-major]

Do we forecast (castform pun intended), new fossil pokemon this gen? I mean, its supposed to be very far away from Japan, and fossils are everywhere right, so new species? Will piss myself if Desukan is a new fossil

of course we can expect them; I will be greatly disappointed if they don't add new ones. I don't think Desukan will be a fossil though, as it's... not a fossil. it's a relic, if anything... a new theme maybe? maybe the relics will act as a new fossil.

 

[Wishy]

But what if his ability means every move hits for super effective...

Maybe Reshiram's and Zekrom's abilities make STAB Fire / Electric attacks hit for SE on everything. That would be broken beyond Uber >_> Holy shit, that's goddamn insane what a stupid idea o_o;

of course we can expect them; I will be greatly disappointed if they don't add new ones. I don't think Desukan will be a fossil though, as it's... not a fossil. it's a relic, if anything... a new theme maybe? maybe the relics will act as a new fossil.

Back a couple hundred pages I was speculating that in the desert ruins instead of finding fossils, the "fossil" pokemon in Gen5 would be ancient artifacts. We have a sarcophagus... What else is a iconic artifact? Arrow heads? lol.... Now that I'm on the topic of artifacts, I would love a Pokemon based on Shakokidogu. WOW Just as I google image search Shakokidogu I find a picture of Claydol... Duhhh how could I forget >_>; lol


I hope the next batch of new Pokemon in CoroCoro cover the 4 missing Pokemon (Desukan / Tarantula / Mole / p-pseudo). Mostly the mole, cause it's badass