Agreed. I nearly got owned by a Kangy (thank you venusaur) before and with an SD, gg man. Scrappy is gay.
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NP: UU - Silent Night
- Thread starter reachzero
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Agreed. I nearly got owned by a Kangy (thank you venusaur) before and with an SD, gg man. Scrappy is gay.
The main problem with Kangaskhan is its coverage.
Now you're thinking: What? It gets perfect coverage with two moves!
The problem is Hammer Arm lowering your speed, since offensive Kanga can't invest in bulk the speed-lowering side effect is going to hurt more than it would on a CB Kanga.
Nevertheless ima try that, it still sounds pretty deadly (I'll just use Earthquake).
Now you're thinking: What? It gets perfect coverage with two moves!
The problem is Hammer Arm lowering your speed, since offensive Kanga can't invest in bulk the speed-lowering side effect is going to hurt more than it would on a CB Kanga.
Nevertheless ima try that, it still sounds pretty deadly (I'll just use Earthquake).
I spose there's always Low Kick or Brick Break if you hate Hammer Arm a lot, although BB loses a lot of power generally but can rape screens, and Low Kick fails aganist the resident UU pink blobs.
But lol your right, EQ is probably best. Can't think of anything that EQ misses out on hitting.
what about trying pass the +2 Atk to a subpunching set, keep the coverage but gain power and don't lose speed
You could always run 252 attack/128 def/128 spd adamant with Hammer Arm.
Anyway, can someone show me the SubSalac Magneton set?
Anyway, can someone show me the SubSalac Magneton set?
Flare told me to post here as we rebuilt his rain team so.
No one is ready for rain again, if you're only running one or two rain checks it's easy to just bulldoze over it if you built your rain team correctly.
If you really want to beat rain, run atleast 3 rain checks like milo/venu/croak/Jolly Kabutops. They're functional outside of rain otherwise a smart RD player is just going to tear apart your team.
Hell, Flare went up 40 points just testing.
No one is ready for rain again, if you're only running one or two rain checks it's easy to just bulldoze over it if you built your rain team correctly.
If you really want to beat rain, run atleast 3 rain checks like milo/venu/croak/Jolly Kabutops. They're functional outside of rain otherwise a smart RD player is just going to tear apart your team.
Hell, Flare went up 40 points just testing.
Its not that no one is prepared, ive seen plenty of Toxicroak, Milotic etc just that Rain "counters" are really easy to overwhelm pretty much. :/
I faced Rain the other day and all of my checks were owned by consecutive critical hits and a flinch. My luck is awesome.
Bulky offensive teams are actually pretty good against Rain, even if you didn't tailor anything specifically to counter it. All you have to do is make sure you don't give your opponent any momentum. If you have your Arcanine or Rhyperior in on Kabutops, you're usually better off attacking on the off chance it'll SD so you'll be sure to get your bulky Water/Grass type in. If you're not ready for Rain, you need to head back to the drawing board.
I do find it a little uncanny that no matter what my team or my opponent's team looks like, Ludicolo is always the one giving me the most trouble. You really can't switch much of anything into that guy safely.
Bulky offensive teams are actually pretty good against Rain, even if you didn't tailor anything specifically to counter it. All you have to do is make sure you don't give your opponent any momentum. If you have your Arcanine or Rhyperior in on Kabutops, you're usually better off attacking on the off chance it'll SD so you'll be sure to get your bulky Water/Grass type in. If you're not ready for Rain, you need to head back to the drawing board.
I do find it a little uncanny that no matter what my team or my opponent's team looks like, Ludicolo is always the one giving me the most trouble. You really can't switch much of anything into that guy safely.
Rain is the same as it was before, a high-stakes prediction war. People don't realize this and they expect to beat Rain by treating it like a standard team.
Venusaur and Croak can be beaten by a bulky Pokemon with Psychic (Sucker Punch will fuck shit up for something like Uxie or Zam) and Milotic is taken care of by boosted SE moves, such as Specs Lanturn or NP Raichu. Ironicly, the same two types that break through Rain counters can break through enemy Rain teams as well. Something like CM Uxie with Pschic+Thunderbolt can rip through typical Rain users with one or two turns of setup and possibly a Sub, although Pokemon like Lanturn would be problematic. In addition, Water Absorb pokes like Poliwrath do well in theory.
EDIT: Heck, even Rhyperior pulls its weight against Rain teams if your prediction is on par. If the opponent uses an Uxie to set up, it'll likely know SR/RD/Thunder/U-turn. It U-turns on out, you use Earthquake and even hit Ludicolo pretty hard.
The biggest problem with many people that use rain is they use setup bait like uxie, which lets you get free kills often. They also tend to use rain sweepers that get walled by different things so it is harder to overload people. Another thing is that they use teams where nothing is fast, so a fast frail sweeper will tear up after rain has expired.
I can definitely see how deadly rain would be in a smart player's hands, but at the same time it is still a "high-stakes prediction war."
I can definitely see how deadly rain would be in a smart player's hands, but at the same time it is still a "high-stakes prediction war."
IMO to beat rain, I think the best thing is to know when and what to sacrifice to waste rain turns. I mean, you'll probably always have pokemon on your team that don't do very well against rain so make them the designated death fodder to waste turns, then setting up when rain stops usually will do fairly decently.
Oh, and priority helps too unless you're facing Kabutops who usually takes something down anyway lol.
Oh, and priority helps too unless you're facing Kabutops who usually takes something down anyway lol.
The one I've been trying out is just Sub/Charge Beam/Thunderbolt/HP Ice.
@ Rain discussion: Who says no-one's ready for rain?? Bring it on. Anyway, go to the Rain thread for that stuff.
Please don't try to control what the thread is about. If people feel discussions of rain dance are metagame-relevant, that is what they will talk about in the metagame thread. We didn't make separate threads for every suspect we've had, so why do so for rain?
Anyway, I have indeed remade my rain team. It's not the same as before, and it's still not entirely serious actually (been testing various swift swim sweepers and rain setters and working out kinks) but I can already tell that people have grown really complacent. I think a major part of it is, as I theorymoned before, the metagame shift away from Stall: water resists aren't worth a lot when they're 2hko'd (like feraligatr and offensive venusaur). And the lack of Cresselia definitely does not hurt, fat whore, although Uxie is still somewhat of a pain.
So far my biggest issue has been Milotic, but only if I was careless and let Ludicolo die. Otherwise, if there are at least 5 rain turns left, Milotic is basically an excuse to wreck the enemy team with Ludicolo. Man Ludicolo is awesome.
Anyway, I have indeed remade my rain team. It's not the same as before, and it's still not entirely serious actually (been testing various swift swim sweepers and rain setters and working out kinks) but I can already tell that people have grown really complacent. I think a major part of it is, as I theorymoned before, the metagame shift away from Stall: water resists aren't worth a lot when they're 2hko'd (like feraligatr and offensive venusaur). And the lack of Cresselia definitely does not hurt, fat whore, although Uxie is still somewhat of a pain.
So far my biggest issue has been Milotic, but only if I was careless and let Ludicolo die. Otherwise, if there are at least 5 rain turns left, Milotic is basically an excuse to wreck the enemy team with Ludicolo. Man Ludicolo is awesome.
Why do you think we moved over to the Rain thread last time?? Anyway:
Does that mean it's Suspect worthy?? Probably not. There is a difference between "Rain is hard to deal with it's too powerful" and there's a difference between "Rain is hard to deal with because I forgot to prepare for it".
Rain is hard to deal with, and it is too powerful. The lack of preparation is not because people are lazy, but because you have to run suboptimal Pokemon, sets, or even team styles in order to deal with it, which means "well prepared" often means "well prepared against rain but worse against everything else".
Do you know that in the, oh, 3 hours I've laddered since I first posted about rain that I've already seen nearly exponential increases in Poliwrath (much better at beating Tops than Toxicroak) and Stall teams? This probably corresponds to the equally ridiculous increase in rain teams themselves (most of which are pretty shitty, if you're reading this and you decide to make a rain team, please don't suck at it).
Let me just put it this way: Garchomp was not less broken because people started using Cloyster and Weavile. Perhaps we aren't seeing quite that level of centralization, but anyone who remembers what the metagame was like during the RainBlitz (even with Raikou and Cress to worry about..!) knows what I'm talking about.
Do you know that in the, oh, 3 hours I've laddered since I first posted about rain that I've already seen nearly exponential increases in Poliwrath (much better at beating Tops than Toxicroak) and Stall teams? This probably corresponds to the equally ridiculous increase in rain teams themselves (most of which are pretty shitty, if you're reading this and you decide to make a rain team, please don't suck at it).
Let me just put it this way: Garchomp was not less broken because people started using Cloyster and Weavile. Perhaps we aren't seeing quite that level of centralization, but anyone who remembers what the metagame was like during the RainBlitz (even with Raikou and Cress to worry about..!) knows what I'm talking about.
Completely subjective.
You know that is not true. What suboptimal sets?? Golduck?? Gardevoir?? I'm quite sure I have beaten many Rain teams, including yours Flare, with a just a normal team. Syrne's UU paragraph (Which was released here), had said there were plenty of people who stopped him quite easily with a normal team.
Does that matter?? Starmie usage went up a lot in the last few months, partially in reaction to Latias being banned and the caged beast known as Infernape being let loose (Yes, I know Starmie is a great Pokemon, but Poliwrath is NOT bad, it's UU for a reason). I also know that Latias being banned increased Starmie's viability by itself, but you can't just go "Hey look usage went up of <Insert counter> therefore it is broken".
And let me put it this way: Gyarados will sweep your team if you do not carry a check to it.
Might I remind you of this, Flare?? Clearly the majority of players who got qualified to vote did not share your sentiment.
It really irks me when people feel the need to do this. You quoted the thesis of my post and said "this is subjective". Well no shit? That's why it's a thesis and the rest of my post is the supporting material.
There are plenty of people that stop me with a random team, too. And I stopped plenty of teams with Raikou and Cresselia with my random, metagame-ignorant team a while back (I had no dark or ground types, no venusaur, etc).
Individual cases of winning or losing do no matter. What matters is that I can input extremely little effort into a team and into my play, and still consistently beat people that have put FAR more effort into their team and their play. What matters is that teams with multiple of what we could consider "rain checks" still lose horribly to rain teams if they don't "predict" (guess) exactly right
Yes, it matters a lot, actually. I don't care whether Poliwrath is UU, it is a suboptimal Pokemon. Toxicroak has so many advantages over it in standard play it's not even funny (like not being beaten to shit by the two most common pokemon in the tier, for one), there is literally no reason to use Poliwrath unless you have an Encore fetish or if you want better chances against rain.
To take an OU example, this is kinda like using Cresselia to check MixMence. Yeah you could wax all day about Cresselia's awesome defenses and shit and claim it's useful for more than Mence, but at the end of the day it's a poor Pokemon in that metagame because other extremely common Pokemon completely shit on it.
And Gyarados should not sweep your team if you have Rotom-A, Swampert, and Celebi, right?
Because I've beaten teams with Venusaur/Toxicroak before. Pretty easily, too.
Rain is not comparable to individual sweepers. In fact, I'm kinda seeing the merits of your initial suggestion to take this to the Rain thread (except it's 11 pages long and all the good shit is backlogged), because you used the same exact example there. This was my response:
"Rain is broken because, for 6-7 turns, you have to deal with sweepers that effectively have over base 180 S/ATK (when using water attacks, not counting Item or Swords Dance boosts, at which point it gets ridiculous) and base 140-180 SPE. It's possible to beat these sweepers simply by switching around and outstalling their attacks, just as it would be possible to beat, say, a +2 Gyarados in UU by switching around between Milotic, Torterra and Uxie until it dies to LO recoil 7 turns later. I don't believe this would make Gyarados acceptable in UU, and yet it's exactly the argument people make against banning Damp Rock. "Play around it", you say. Well yes, it's entirely possible for any competent player to play around Froslass and Cresselia as well, but I don't see you advocating that they stick around for a while longer. And for good reason; because "playing around" a Pokemon (or in this case, a style) only works if your opponent is worse, or less lucky, than you are. Pure and simple."
You cannot "check" 4 sweepers (three in my case, but whatever) that all employ the same extremely powerful STAB attacks without substantially reducing your effectiveness against other teams. It is just that simple. There are very few pokemon who are effective both against rain and in the standard metagame, and while many of them are used now (saur, croak, milo) they are not enough to stop the sheer power of all the sweepers from overwhelming them.
Did you even read my earlier post? My entire point was that people voted against the Damp Rock ban because the metagame had centralized heavily around rain. I didn't even bother to write a paragraph and vote because I understood that the community believed rain was no longer "broken" due to the massive amount of centralization (also I was apparently prioritizing my girlfriend over it) . Again, in the rain thread, we had a discussion about this, with someone, I think Syrne, stating something like "yeah the metagame basically revolves around rain right now but hey toxicroak is a pretty decent pokemon so I guess it's not all bad". Edit: And most of Syrne's posts in the rain thread are really fantastic and fairly unbiased, I would encourage peopel to read them.
Of course, this ignoring the fact that the vote had a grand total of 6 people who participated, in a metagame replete with two fantastic rain checks (Raikou, Cress). And people still thought it was broken!
Edit: This is going to be my last word on this whole thing, at least in this thread (I'm sure people will stalk my battles and get into arguments with me, as usual). I'll keep playing rain until it bores me again, which will probably be really soon. I'm not planning on doing the whole recruiting/fierce debating thing I did last time. It's one of those things where it's not popular enough that I care about getting it banned anymore.
It is not suboptimal. Yes, Toxicroak is largely better, but this does not mean he is unviable. You are deliberately rejecting a legitimate counter. Yes, Toxicroak is better in a Rain-less metagame, but if Poliwrath usage rises, so be it. By you logic, you can imply "well Toxicroak is higher in usage because Venusaur is around, therefore Venusaur is broken". Would you say Zapdos was suboptimal when Latias was around?? You can easily say there's no reason to use Jynx over Mismagius unless you have a fetish for Sleep moves.
Firstly, for 5-6 turns, Rain sweepers get 180+ attack on their STAB. Their stats are still normal for other moves. However, if rain ends, they are very (to use your word) suboptimal Pokemon.
Fine. Let's compare it to something else, like 4drag2mag. Now don't give me the shit that says "Well they don't have 180+ Attack" and yadda-yadda, because in the end, the numbers don't matter as much, since their efficiency is about the same (I can say this with about enough confidence, since I've swept as many teams with 4drag2mag in OU as with Rain in UU). They both rely on about a number of sweepers running through a team by softening counters. Did we go "OMG LET'S BAN OUTRAGE"?? A well played 4drag2mag can probably climb as high up the ladder as Rain does in UU. Oh, and don't go "4drag2mag is completely wrecked by Weavile or <Insert anti-Dragon Pokemon here>" because I would tell you the same thing about Rain because it is "completely wrecked by Golduck or <Insert anti-Rain Pokemon here>".
No, they didn't. The metagame hardly centralised at all. If you look at the usage stats for February this year (Which was when Damp Rock caused such a stir), the top 20 Pokemon are as follows: Venusaur, Cresselia, Milotic, Froslass, Raikou, Registeel, Spiritomb, Arcanine, Mismagius, Porygon-Z, Uxie, Hitmontop, Rhyperior, Donphan, Ambipom, Alakazam, Blaziken, Moltres, Feraligatr, Sceptile. Not one of them are your "suboptimal" rain "counters" (However, every one of them can be used to defeat Rain is some way). Rain was no longer thought to be broken because people figured out how to beat it, not because they crammed about 5 rain checks onto one team. Also, please don't trash the people who voted, they are in no way any less enlightened than you are. Yes, 6 people participated, but if Rain was really that broken, more people would have to call for its banning.
To weigh in on the whole "Poliwrath is Suboptimal" debate.... he's simply not. I use a Sub/Bulk Up/ FP/ Ice Punch set, and if its allowed to get a Bulk up or two under it's belt, he can often take down 2 or 3 Pokemon before he's removed. People simply see Poliwrath and compare him to Toxicroak, see Toxicroak's bigger attack stat and think he's better.
I've used both Toxicroak and Poliwrath is similar roles and Poliwrath is simply more durable. For a start, his ability in Water Absorb is, despite being similar, superior to Toxicroak's. Furthermore, he has a boatload of resistances (More than 'Croak) that he can come in on and attempt to set up. Here's just a short list of things I've found Toxicroak can come in and set up on:
Choiced Moltres locked in Flamethrower/ Fire Blast
Choiced Blaziken locked in a fire move
Choiced Azumarril
Sleep Talk Milotic
All Registeel without Seismic Toss
All Spiritomb without Shadow Ball (pretty sure this could be all Spiritomb with some more SpD investment)
All Regirock
I know there are more but those are the main ones. All are pretty common Pokemon so it's not as if it's largely situational. Hell, even if he just gets a Sub up, unboosted Focus Punch still hurts alot of things.
Like people have mentioned, he is a great Rain counter, possibly the best for the Physical sweepers. People don't realise that he can also be a great Hail and Sandstorm check. With Wallrein removed, very little (not even STAB Blizzard) can stop him getting a Sub up and a SE Focus Punch. Same goes for SS.
So yeah, basically what I'm saying is... Poliwrath is not suboptimal to Toxicroak. In some situations, yes, SD and NP sets, most definitely, but certainly not in every situation outside of Rain.
I've used both Toxicroak and Poliwrath is similar roles and Poliwrath is simply more durable. For a start, his ability in Water Absorb is, despite being similar, superior to Toxicroak's. Furthermore, he has a boatload of resistances (More than 'Croak) that he can come in on and attempt to set up. Here's just a short list of things I've found Toxicroak can come in and set up on:
Choiced Moltres locked in Flamethrower/ Fire Blast
Choiced Blaziken locked in a fire move
Choiced Azumarril
Sleep Talk Milotic
All Registeel without Seismic Toss
All Spiritomb without Shadow Ball (pretty sure this could be all Spiritomb with some more SpD investment)
All Regirock
I know there are more but those are the main ones. All are pretty common Pokemon so it's not as if it's largely situational. Hell, even if he just gets a Sub up, unboosted Focus Punch still hurts alot of things.
Like people have mentioned, he is a great Rain counter, possibly the best for the Physical sweepers. People don't realise that he can also be a great Hail and Sandstorm check. With Wallrein removed, very little (not even STAB Blizzard) can stop him getting a Sub up and a SE Focus Punch. Same goes for SS.
So yeah, basically what I'm saying is... Poliwrath is not suboptimal to Toxicroak. In some situations, yes, SD and NP sets, most definitely, but certainly not in every situation outside of Rain.
I played rain yesterday as well and I beat it using Milotic + Exeggutor to weaken it down and just used strong priority pokemon to finish it when rain was gone ( arcanine, hitmonlee). Having used Rain Dance I'm going to have to say its not just about putting Kabutops and Ludicolo on a team and then sweeping. If you want to be successful, IMO, you have to commit 3/6 or even 4/6 to supporting and setting up that sweep for your rain sweepers. Support including, phazing, scouting, set up, entry hazards (spikes and sr for registeel / chansey), and a Rain sweeper is who is dedicated to breaking massive gaps in the enemies defense/rain counters. That is how I built my most successful Rain team and by following that gameplan I found myself winning more than losing even though almost every team carried a Regilotic core at the time.
As far as Rain being suspected it's really a hard decision. In therory there are alot of reasons to vote it out because as flare said 180 base stab without any set up moves as well as 140 - 180 base speed. When a good player abuses that and abuses it well its near impossible to stop even with all there great checks and counters to rain sweepers. On the other hand though the majority of users USING damp rock/rain dance honestly are mediocre and are using your crappy standard of Electrode/ Kabutops/ Ludicolo/ Omastar/ Uxie/ insert random sweeper or filler. Its really hard to judge because most of Rain useage comes from people like that, but there are also the select few "good" players that can really abuse and show rains full potential. I'm really torn on rain.
As far as Rain being suspected it's really a hard decision. In therory there are alot of reasons to vote it out because as flare said 180 base stab without any set up moves as well as 140 - 180 base speed. When a good player abuses that and abuses it well its near impossible to stop even with all there great checks and counters to rain sweepers. On the other hand though the majority of users USING damp rock/rain dance honestly are mediocre and are using your crappy standard of Electrode/ Kabutops/ Ludicolo/ Omastar/ Uxie/ insert random sweeper or filler. Its really hard to judge because most of Rain useage comes from people like that, but there are also the select few "good" players that can really abuse and show rains full potential. I'm really torn on rain.
I don't want to weigh in on the Rain debate proper right now, but I'd like to point out two arguments that really annoy me about it.
1. zomg 180/180/140 base offenses
There's seriously no point to this argument. It completely ignores the metagame context, and for all the reader cares the argument can be used in OU and Ubers as well. Of course, OU/Ubers is bulkier / has better typing / has better tools / whatever, but when you go there you immediately have no need for the original power argument.
2. zomg imagine Garchomp / Gyarados in UU
No, Rain has to dedicate all six team slots to pull off a single tactic. It's make-or-break. It works or it doesn't. Even if you muscle past a successful counter tactic, I'd file that under "works". A better comparison is [Uber] + maybe one other Pokémon allowed. And we all know that one Uber is not going to demolish entire teams by itself consistently.
EDIT in response to Rolf sort of:
The thing is that suspects are not banned on the basis of being one-dimensional. They are banned on the basis of being so good that they don't have to be more than one-dimensional.
1. zomg 180/180/140 base offenses
There's seriously no point to this argument. It completely ignores the metagame context, and for all the reader cares the argument can be used in OU and Ubers as well. Of course, OU/Ubers is bulkier / has better typing / has better tools / whatever, but when you go there you immediately have no need for the original power argument.
2. zomg imagine Garchomp / Gyarados in UU
No, Rain has to dedicate all six team slots to pull off a single tactic. It's make-or-break. It works or it doesn't. Even if you muscle past a successful counter tactic, I'd file that under "works". A better comparison is [Uber] + maybe one other Pokémon allowed. And we all know that one Uber is not going to demolish entire teams by itself consistently.
EDIT in response to Rolf sort of:
The thing is that suspects are not banned on the basis of being one-dimensional. They are banned on the basis of being so good that they don't have to be more than one-dimensional.
I have used rain/Damp Rock on a full team. It's good, but not nearly as consistent as my more balance oriented teams. I frequently would find myself winning games I usually wouldn't win or else losing games I would win with any other team. I'm sure for newer players though, rain would be a significant increase in wins over their standard teams.
However, I did toy around with an Electrode + Qwilfish + Kabutops team that focused on Qwilfish Exploding on the initial rain counter then weakening the secondary with Kabutops. After that, I switched over to Snover and started a WhiteQueen-reminiscent BlizzSpam team. Had some pretty good success, especially since the hail summoned now does not have a timer, and your Milotic/Venusaur/Registeel (counters to rain and blizzspam) is now exploded on or severely weakened to the point that hail can rip through you, no breaks in weather.
The level of boredness (?) this brings though is pretty stupefying and got boring very very fast. I'd almost compare it to a team of six Honchkrows back during that meta, or six SpecsMegas (With both abilities at once). Just mindless spam of one move and you're able to beat the metagame more often than not. Maybe not that much, but the rote level of play it brings is uggh. But is that not why we banned Honchkrow, unanimously at that, in the first place? He could come in on anything faster and bash things with one move and 2HKO basically everything in the game with BB + Coverage. Rain can do the same thing.
I'm still undecided on where I want to take a stance on rain because of the relative weakness I had with it on the ladder, but from my personal experience of playing against good (and bad) rain as well as the brainless factor kinda pull me the other way.
EDIT: Quick afternote that although it gets boring on the ladder, rain is dominant in tournament play in its ability to take down standard balance right now. You basically have to choose either more anti-rain or more anti-balance and risk having a significant weakness to the other, especially since right now the standard balance metagame has not shifted to include those rain counters.
However, I did toy around with an Electrode + Qwilfish + Kabutops team that focused on Qwilfish Exploding on the initial rain counter then weakening the secondary with Kabutops. After that, I switched over to Snover and started a WhiteQueen-reminiscent BlizzSpam team. Had some pretty good success, especially since the hail summoned now does not have a timer, and your Milotic/Venusaur/Registeel (counters to rain and blizzspam) is now exploded on or severely weakened to the point that hail can rip through you, no breaks in weather.
The level of boredness (?) this brings though is pretty stupefying and got boring very very fast. I'd almost compare it to a team of six Honchkrows back during that meta, or six SpecsMegas (With both abilities at once). Just mindless spam of one move and you're able to beat the metagame more often than not. Maybe not that much, but the rote level of play it brings is uggh. But is that not why we banned Honchkrow, unanimously at that, in the first place? He could come in on anything faster and bash things with one move and 2HKO basically everything in the game with BB + Coverage. Rain can do the same thing.
I'm still undecided on where I want to take a stance on rain because of the relative weakness I had with it on the ladder, but from my personal experience of playing against good (and bad) rain as well as the brainless factor kinda pull me the other way.
EDIT: Quick afternote that although it gets boring on the ladder, rain is dominant in tournament play in its ability to take down standard balance right now. You basically have to choose either more anti-rain or more anti-balance and risk having a significant weakness to the other, especially since right now the standard balance metagame has not shifted to include those rain counters.
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