Battle Cherry breaker

TheBlueFox

Evening Gents, Foxy here. Having enjoyed my time standing on the sidelines and watching others competitively battle, I want to try my hand at it. Unfortunately I have little experience doing so first hand. Here is a group that I had made in the past at one point, and fared decently. However it was only among friends who had less knowledge than me. So help me out, Criticism not only welcomed but needed.


At a glance:

Metagross (lead)
Lucario
Gliscor
Gyarados
Gengar
Vaporeon


Metagross:
Lead, Occa berry, Adamant
Stealth rock
Explosion
Earthquake
Bullet punch

248 HP / 232 Atk / 28 Spe

Stealth rock setter. Hes got the berry to survive a fire based attack, though Im wondering if my opponent has a fire lead if I should just switch out to one of my water types to take it. His main duty is to deal some damage, Set up rocks, And find something to explode on. I dont plan on keeping him alive too long, but seeing as how hes probably the best thing to take dragon attacks I might want to try.


Lucario:
Phys attacker, Choice Scarf, Inner focus, Jolly
Close combat
Extreme speed
Crunch
Ice punch

252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

Possible revenge killer, I love lucario, he's adorable and powerful, but everyone has a counter to him. Thats why I dont want to keep him in for very long, just long enough to do what needs to be done, and more if I can squeese some out of him. Thus the Scarf and high speed

Gliscor
Offensive phys attacker, Life orb, Hyper cutter, Jolly
Swords dance
Stone edge
Roost
Earthquake

40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe

Gliscor was my second favorite, because of his unique typing and cuteness. yes, a flying scorpion can be cute too. Hes powerful with pretty high physical defense, and can be switched in on earthquakes that threaten the previous two pokes

Gyarados
Offensive phys attacker, Lefties, Intimidate, Jolly
Earthquake
Dragon dance
Waterfall
Stone Edge

252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Sp

Possibly my sweeper, Gyarados is powerful and can come in on those ground/fire types. I realize the dangers of stealth rock and anything that has recently rubbed up against a wool surface, but its hard to get rid of something that worked, and when I played, he really worked. Again though, his popularity springs many counters. Thus is the OU bracket though

Vaporeon
Defensive staller, Leftovers, Bold
Wish
Protect
Surf
Toxic

188 HP / 252 Def / 68 Spe

Vaporeon I have seen to be a great asset to teams. If someone isnt prepared for it, he can do some serious damage and frustrate people to no end. I havent used vaporeon before, This slot was accompanied by a blissey last time I played, and I wasnt quite happy with blissey, so Im trying something new.

Gengar
Special sweeper, Life orb, Timid
Shadow ball
Thunderbolt
Explosion
Focus blast

4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

The only reason im not running H.P. Fire on him is because I have no idea just yet how to IV that, so exploding in a pinch seems like the next best alternative. He was a pretty great asset in the past, due to his own explosion immunity. That and hes a very powerful special attacker.


This was the first group I had made, and Id like to start off with it, learn, and make adjustments. So tear it apart, piece by piece if you have to, but at least offer up something to gain from the criticism.
 
I think that the band is an interesting idea on Lucario (turning him into a bazooka, essentially) but it really isn't fast enough to do much revenge killing. I would swap him out for Flygon or else give him a scarf. That will also fix your team's weakness to scarf Tyranitar, which is still popular, even with the ban of Latias (which was totally fair). ScarfTar can come in on ANYTHING you have, with the exception of metagross, which you've said you will sacrifice, and maybe a focusblast. The best Vaporeon can do is force it out; it won't stay in to be toxic'd to death, and it can't kill. You need a revenge killer, and I recommend ScarfCario, because flygon messes with your already decent synergy.
 
Oooh, you know what, I think I MEANT to put a scarf on it, but switched Scarf and Band in my head. Yeaaaa, that would be a good thing. But hmm... you know having a band might actually be a little interesting to try sometime. Ill edit that now
 
I've never actually rated a team, but I have noticed that SpecsJolteon with HP Ice runs through you once Metagross is out of the way, (so booming early isn't advisable), and has an easy (though uncommon) switch in with Gengar running Thunderbolt.

The only thing that can take a hit from it is Lucario, and that damage with Thunderbolt is minimum 98.6%, so SR or Spikes will result in an already likely OHKO, while a Banded Extremespeed never does, even with SR. (A Scarfed CC does, however).

I recommend either changing Gliscor to the standard Physical Wall set, or changing to a pokemon that helps you cover threatening pokemon such as Jolteon, who often comes with a free Gyarados. I would suggest a Choice Band Aerodactyl, as it is fast enough to make use of it and has a decent Attack and movepool. (But run Jolly to speedtie with Timid Jolteon).

A set would be:

Aerodactyl @ Choice Band
Jolly/Hasty | Rock Head
252 Spe/252 Atk/4 Sp. Def | 252 Spe/184 Atk/72 Sp. Atk
Double Edge
Stone Edge
Earthquake
Fire Blast/Pursuit/Assurance/Iron Tail

Fire Blast is for if Scizor and Forretress are giving you problems (though don't come in when Scizor is locked on Bullet Punch), Pursuit and Iron Tail are purely for coverage, and Assurance helps revenging.

It otherwise seems like you have a very good team in the making here, and ScarfLuke is far better than BandLuke.
 
Alright, so Ill change that choice band to a choice scarf on luke. thats probably a given.

What is the "Standard Physical Wall" Gliscor set? Max Def and Hp EVs with Roost, Substitute, Swords dance and Earthquake/baton pass?
 
I've done this countless times with Magnezone. HP Fire can be IV'd most efficiently as follows: 31/30/31/30/31/30 (easy to memorize, it alternates!)
Unfortunately, there's no way to get HP Fire with 31 in SpA. Also, in the team editor, you can choose the Hidden Power type and it will populate the IVs for you. The best reference, however, is this, since it gives you other possible spreads too. 300 posts....
 
Drat, and also no way to get 31 in speed, that could be a problem... Is there anything better than explosion or H.P. Fire? Though I might just have to bite the bullet and take the speed hit, HP Fire is going to be sooo useful, it will be the only fire attack id have >.> that in itself could be a problem
 
TheBlueFox said:
Alright, so Ill change that choice band to a choice scarf on luke. thats probably a given.

What is the "Standard Physical Wall" Gliscor set? Max Def and Hp EVs with Roost, Substitute, Swords dance and Earthquake/baton pass?
Click to expand...


252 hp /252 speed / 4 def jolly with eq / taunt / toxic / roost, which also plays as a stall breaker.

you could also run 252 hp / 40 def / 216 speed with impish but its w/e you want

also, on gengar, substitute could go over thunderbolt. its really not very useful imo =/ substitute could be useful for scouting or on a predicting switch, to open up a sweep. pretty much under a sub, the only thing that can beat it is blissey who you explode on.
 
Hmm subbing on Gengar. That might be pretty sweet.

What would I miss out on if I took out thunderbolt? I suppose if Gliscor and Gyara have stone edge, I can take out flyers with it, but what about water types, wouldnt they still give me problems?

I know I shouldnt depend on one poke with one move to take out an entire type, but help me understand what I would miss if I removed thunderbolt for Substitute. and if I DO sub, should I use leftovers or still the orb?
 
So before I go to sleep, is that it? that all I really should know for the moment? Guess ill make them and have a few challenges, see how they go.
 
just a minor suggestion but i notice that u really dont have any taunters which can be easy for teams to set up on you especially something like crocune... he is a major threat has has a good chance of taking out ur entire team if u lost metagross's on a different threat, however if suicune is his last pokemon he will just pp stall ur vaporeon to death(by struggle because suicune has pressure) I'm not sure how to counter him effectively though because that guy vaporizes my team too. also i prefer roar on my vaporeon if for no other reason then to get boosting type out of there.
 
Yea, I dont have a hazer, a phazer, a tricker, a taunter, or even a baton passer. I figure when I actually learn what pokes can do what, Ill start adding those in.

Id consider those advanced tactics, Im sort of beginner >.> I needs to learn me some tasty basics first. ^_^ but all the help has been great, Ill be trying this team out. and I suppose ill make 2 gengars, one with sub and lefties and one with thunderbolt and life orb to see how well they work.
 
TheBlueFox said:
Yea, I dont have a hazer, a phazer, a tricker, a taunter, or even a baton passer. I figure when I actually learn what pokes can do what, Ill start adding those in.

Id consider those advanced tactics, Im sort of beginner >.> I needs to learn me some tasty basics first. ^_^ but all the help has been great, Ill be trying this team out. and I suppose ill make 2 gengars, one with sub and lefties and one with thunderbolt and life orb to see how well they work.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, there really are no 'tasty basics,' because almost every team you face will have a taunter, a tricker, or a PHazer (except at the bottom of the ladder where everyone's using Blast Burn Charizard and Special Gyarados ... faced those last night with my new test account). You could be ruined if you're not careful. Taylor your support options to your team. Vaporeon and Gyarados are Taunt-weak (more the former than the latter), so replacing Swords Dance with your own Taunt on Gliscor might not be a bad idea, making him more of a support Pokemon. You can give it U-Turn over Stone Edge to scout and to bring in teammates. Vaporeon will really appreciate the support to pass Wishes and Toxic your foes.
 
having never used taunt myself, Ill have to figure out what to use it on for the best effect. I would assume set-up happy pokes, though again ill have to figure out which ones those are.

Taunt on my gliscor, hmm, that would probably be the best place to fit it if anywhere.

How would I "Scout" with U-Turn, isnt that just a switch with damage? Ill probably have to sign up for one of those battle 101 tutor forums as soon as I qualify :3
 
TheBlueFox said:
having never used taunt myself, Ill have to figure out what to use it on for the best effect. I would assume set-up happy pokes, though again ill have to figure out which ones those are.

Taunt on my gliscor, hmm, that would probably be the best place to fit it if anywhere.

How would I "Scout" with U-Turn, isnt that just a switch with damage? Ill probably have to sign up for one of those battle 101 tutor forums as soon as I qualify :3
Click to expand...
U-Turn is a scout/support move with the added bonus of doing damage. Think of the damage as a secondary effect of U-Turn, a bonus for you. It's basically like Dry Passing (Baton Pass with no boosts, commonly done by Jolteon) except you get to do damage to your opponent in the process. However, I don't intend to get into Dry Passing right now. Here are some scenarios that happen when you use U-Turn:

  1. Your opponent switches
    You do damage to their next Pokémon, AND get a free switch yourself. You can send in someone who can easily set up on their switch in, giving you the upper hand.
  2. You outspeed your opponent and they don't switch
    You can switch to someone who can absorb the move they are about to use, if you can correctly predict it. Flygon is one of the fastest users of Taunt (with a Choice Scarf). Choice Scarf Scizor is rising in popularity, though I in particular don't use it. I'm in love with Choice Band Scizor, which brings me to my next point.
  3. Your opponent outspeeds you and they don't switch
    If you survive the attack, you get to switch in for free to someone who can set up on your opponent, or just kill it outright. Choice Band Scizor is my favorite option for this, since U-Turn STAB and the Choice Band boost go a long way in causing major pain for your opponent.
 
Ohh I get it, so you get to choose the pokemon you want to switch to AFTER the move activates, as opposed to when you are selecting it. so its like a delayed switch.

I gotcha, I wasnt aware that was how the move worked. Hmm, learning new things all the time.
 
I always wondered how it worked also, but I came to understand its use when I had it used against me. It's arguably one of the best moves in the game.

Anyway, keep learning man! I'm still learning too and I spent months studying the on-site analyses before I actually started battling. It all comes in time - there really is no way to become good without playing the game and seeking advice from others.
 
I am happy I put on Taunt on my Gliscor...

I just battled a buddy, though because we were nearby as opposed to Wi-Fi, we had mismatched levels, he was ~60s, And all mine were level 55, since we couldnt lv100 battle.

Anyways, It all basically came down to my three pokes, vs his Suicune. When he brought it out, I had vaporeon on the field at low health. He started right off the bat to calm mind, while I used wish. From the second calm mind I knew he was just gonna keep using it, so I hit him with toxic. In hind sight I probably SHOULD have done that from the start.

By the third calm mind I swapped in Gliscor. I outsped him and hit him with taunt, ruining his attempt to rest. After an earthquake to get some damage on him, he killed gliscor, but was weakened enough for a extreme speed from luke to take him out.

Anyways, Taunt is my new buddy >.> Still considering Uturn over stone edge...
 
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