Dialga (Bulky Anti-Lead)

Manaphy

Banned deucer.
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/dialga

I've been using this set on my most recent team, and it's awesome, and has won me quite a few matches. Also, Smogon has no Lead Dialga Analysis yet,(that I know of) so here goes.

QC Accepted: 0/3
Grammar: 0/2

483_dialga_1_m.png

[SET]
Name: Bulky Anti-Lead
Move 1: Draco Meteor
Move 2: Flamethrower / Thunder Wave
Move 3: Thunder
Move 4: Stealth Rock
Item: Lum Berry
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP / 244 SpA / 12 Spe

Why this set deserves to be on-site:
- Great for countering Common leads, such as Deoxys-S, Shaymin-S, Kyogre, Groudon, Darkrai, Forretress, and Rayquaza.
- Bulky enough to live hits that would normally OHKO offensive Dialga sets, such as Support Groudon's Earthquake.
- Able to carry Stealth Rock, something other Anti-Leads can't brag about.
- Able to come back late-game and wreak havoc.
- Works in both Sunlight and Rain.

Additional Comments:
- Draco Meteor is a great STAB attack with great covereage in Ubers.
- Flamethrower is great for Groudon, Forretress, Shaymin-S, and Metagross switch-ins. It's power Under the Sunlight can be deadly too.
- Thunder Wave is a good attack if your not worried about Forretress, but Flamethrower is preferred.
- Thunder 2HKOs Kyogre Leads, and hits Ho-Oh, Lugia, and Manaphy for Super-Effective damage if you come back late game.
- Stealth Rock is a must, everything on your team will appreciate it.
- The EVs give maximum HP and Maximum Sp.Atk. 12 Speed EVs are to always outspeed 8 Speed Groudon.
- If you are worried Groudon may be carrying some extra speed EVs, you could go with 36 Speed EVs, as this will also outpace Non-Choice Ho-Oh, albeit you'll sacrifice HP or Sp.Atk.

Teammates and Counters:
- Deoxys-A can SuperPower for the 2HKO, so a Priority user would be beneficial.
- Blissey walls this set all day, so a Wobbufet/Physical Attacker is needed.
- Mewtwo or Deoxys-S can set up Light Screen on you, so a Wobbufet/Pursuit user/something with Brick Break all help this set.
-This Dialga can lure in and Destroy Groudon, so Pokemon who appreciate Groudon's disposal, such as Swords Dance Rayquaza, Swords Dance Lucario, and Calm Mind Manaphy, make good partners for this set.
-If you Dislike Deoxys-S from getting Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes on you, Forretress could be a good partner.
 
Not sure how effective this is since it still lets Deoxys-e get 2 layers up and the only thing that looks different from this set than the one on-site is the ev spread and even then you're speed creeping by putting enough speed to outspeed 8 speed Groudon.

edit: Yeah, the set is good as a lead, but doesn't do very well as an anti-lead like the title says.
 
This set is already onsite, its called "support". You really just removed some of the slashes and moved the SpD into SpA. Maybe an emphasis on the lead spot should be put onto the current support set, but I don't think it deserves its own set. Also, this doesn't really counter Deoxys-S as it still gets 2 layers on you...

edit: This set definitely does work, I'm not saying it doesn't, but there is already an extremely similar set on site.
 
ive used this set for a long time and it definitely does work albeit you do give up 2 layers, however other than deo it stacks up well against virtually every other lead and if you take advantage of being up 6-5 from the start you can still win, i do however have some suggestions to change, draco should be the standard as you're going to want to KO darkrai right away, secondly i would use flamethrower over fire blast for 2 reasons:

1) you need the perfect accuracy to consistently beat groudon lead (you dont want to lose 15% of the time especially since flamethrower still does the job as fthrower + draco 2KOs)

2) fire blast doesnt really give you any specific KOs/2KOs you need as a lead and is pretty much a liability when it misses

also I know with this whole "speed creep" thing it might be hard to incorporate my next idea but this set definitely needs more speed than groudon leads if its going to be effective. in fact outpacing groudon is probably the most important thing with this lead, in short 12 speed EVs wont really cut it however its pretty much impossible to give a concrete number of speed EVs when people constantly throw in an extra 4 to beat certain stuff so i suppose the most that can be done is simply stating that you should invest a lot of speed to beat groudon
 
This set does work, however losing against Deoxys no matter form has to suck. 2 layers or more for Deoxys-S is a loss to me. As for beating Groudon, beating the standard Groudon lead will suffice, as this set is already quite anti-lead metagaming. Also dual screen leads are extremely rare, I haven't see anyone use them besides myself. Also be weary of trick scarf Deo-S and Darkrai, this set is crippled if you get tricked a scarf, as even with a scarf this set is too slow to do much damage.
 
Atticus said:
ive used this set for a long time and it definitely does work albeit you do give up 2 layers, however other than deo it stacks up well against virtually every other lead and if you take advantage of being up 6-5 from the start you can still win, i do however have some suggestions to change, draco should be the standard as you're going to want to KO darkrai right away, secondly i would use flamethrower over fire blast for 2 reasons:

1) you need the perfect accuracy to consistently beat groudon lead (you dont want to lose 15% of the time especially since flamethrower still does the job as fthrower + draco 2KOs)

2) fire blast doesnt really give you any specific KOs/2KOs you need as a lead and is pretty much a liability when it misses

also I know with this whole "speed creep" thing it might be hard to incorporate my next idea but this set definitely needs more speed than groudon leads if its going to be effective. in fact outpacing groudon is probably the most important thing with this lead, in short 12 speed EVs wont really cut it however its pretty much impossible to give a concrete number of speed EVs when people constantly throw in an extra 4 to beat certain stuff so i suppose the most that can be done is simply stating that you should invest a lot of speed to beat groudon
Click to expand...

I've made Draco Meteor / Flamethrower changes, Thanks!

As for the more speed idea, the only Lead Groudon is is the Support Set,(never seen a RP Groudon lead before) and I have always Outspeed with my EVs listed. We -could- bump up the speed to beat Support groudon and Ho-Oh.(36 Speed EVs IRRC)
 
-Manaphy-- said:
I've made Draco Meteor / Flamethrower changes, Thanks!

As for the more speed idea, the only Lead Groudon is is the Support Set,(never seen a RP Groudon lead before) and I have always Outspeed with my EVs listed. We -could- bump up the speed to beat Support groudon and Ho-Oh.(36 Speed EVs IRRC)
Click to expand...
Ho-oh is almost never a lead, and there's not much you can do to Ho-oh as if it's paired with sun, thunder is crap and it can roost/sub any status or damage. Even without sun, thunder has the same accuracy as focus blast, never a good scenario to be placed in.
 
tripe said:
Ho-oh is almost never a lead, and there's not much you can do to Ho-oh as if it's paired with sun, thunder is crap and it can roost/sub any status or damage. Even without sun, thunder has the same accuracy as focus blast, never a good scenario to be placed in.
Click to expand...

It's more for picking off a weakened Ho-oh, rather than staying in when it's at full health and getting destroyed. A full power Draco Meteor does 46.9% - 55.3% to Life Orb Ho-Oh.



Now that I've read the Lead Anaylsis for Dialga (that I didn't knew exist at the time of making this >.<) I see that my set flat out 2HKO's Standard Lead Groudon, while their set gets 2HKO'd, which is a big difference.
 
-Manaphy-- said:
Now that I've read the Lead Anaylsis for Dialga (that I didn't knew exist at the time of making this >.<) I see that my set flat out 2HKO's Standard Lead Groudon, while their set gets 2HKO'd, which is a big difference.
Click to expand...

What?? You have the same exact HP/Defense investment as support Dialga here (252/0), so how is saying that the one on site gets 2HKO relevant when your's does too. I do agree on more Special Attack EVs, however, but shifting a few EVs isn't worth a brand new set. I usually find myself using something close to 252 HP / 252 SpA on most Dialga sets I use, and I have never used a lead Dialga without something similar to 252 HP / 252 SpA (usually with a little speed creep thrown in :P).

edit in response to the post below me: You can't really outspeed it on this set without resorting to Speed creep- which isn't allowed on analysis, to my knowledge at least. As for the last point, I very rarely see any not running Draco Meteor / Flamethrower (or Fire Blast).
 
firecape said:
What?? You have the same exact HP/Defense investment as support Dialga here (252/0), so how is saying that the one on site gets 2HKO relevant when your's does too. I do agree on more Special Attack EVs, however, but shifting a few EVs isn't worth a brand new set. I usually find myself using something close to 252 HP / 252 SpA on most Dialga sets I use, and I have never used a lead Dialga without something similar to 252 HP / 252 SpA (usually with a little speed creep thrown in :P).
Click to expand...

Groudon always outspeeds that set, so he can 2HKO it. Also, some carry Thunder over Flamethrower,(they will always have thunder wave) so that would make near useless with the Sp.Atk drop from Draco Meteor.
 
Going to have to reject this because like firecape said, the lead set is already very similar to this (in fact, the support set has lead set comments).
 
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