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NP: UU - Zero to Hero
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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So do you run SpD weezing to fend off venusaur or physically defensive one to stave off CB stone edges from hera? Dilemna dilemna....
And Golbat might see a lot more action this round :). It's a pretty sweet Pokemon tbh, it checks Hera and Venusaur both quite nicely and isn't that much frailer than Crobat was (85/80/80 vs 75/70/75) and still can give stall hell and revenge random things with a decently powerful Brave Bird (80 atk vs crobat's 90).
EDIT: and anyone else think if heracross is just slightly too much for UU, it would be a better time than ever to give crobat a retest :P...
And Golbat might see a lot more action this round :). It's a pretty sweet Pokemon tbh, it checks Hera and Venusaur both quite nicely and isn't that much frailer than Crobat was (85/80/80 vs 75/70/75) and still can give stall hell and revenge random things with a decently powerful Brave Bird (80 atk vs crobat's 90).
EDIT: and anyone else think if heracross is just slightly too much for UU, it would be a better time than ever to give crobat a retest :P...
Well... moltres is going to go up for sure, as is bulkynine... though the latter takes shittons from CC and SE, even with intimidate.
Problem with Heracross is not so much that it's hard to revenge (it's not, being outsped by literally every fire type in UU, bar blaziken) but that it does huge amounts of damage to its switchins.
This should be an interesting pokemon. Oh and I'm sure somebody will start running physically defensive Aerial ace heracross xD
Problem with Heracross is not so much that it's hard to revenge (it's not, being outsped by literally every fire type in UU, bar blaziken) but that it does huge amounts of damage to its switchins.
This should be an interesting pokemon. Oh and I'm sure somebody will start running physically defensive Aerial ace heracross xD
Sub+3 Attacks Hera can Sub up on a switch and use SE, killing both Moltres and Crobat, while avoiding Intimidate and killing Arcanine (after SR). But then Weezing walks all over it...oh well. I wonder how well CBCross spamming SE (at first) would work.
EDIT: 80% chance to miss sucks, though.
EDIT: 80% chance to miss sucks, though.
Moltres still takes a ton from CC (I believe Scarf can 2KO with Rocks)
Honestly, Heracross is sounding like it's own best counter. A Sleep Talk+ Bulk Up sets up on other Hera.
+2 Facade [Burned] vs. 252/252+ Heracross - 105.8% - 124.5%, so I don't think so lol, though I don't doubt we'll be seeing it on scarf Hera.
I think the Swords Dance + Flame Orb set is the most worrying, especially for defensive teams. Even max/max+ Weezing takes 84.4% - 99.4% from a +2 Facade, which is an almost guaranteed OHKO with SR. (Nidoqueen: 91.1% - 107.3%) Also, most of its checks that can actually switch into its attacks (as in not moltres) happen to be Ghosts such as Mismagius and Rotom which are easy pursuit bait for dark types.
Moltres can barely switch into even Megahorn or Close Combat, let alone Stone Edge if the Heracross user keeps Stealth Rock up. Also, if it's behind a substitute and Moltres is all you rely on to kill the thing, good game already. It's going to eat you alive.
Hrm. Now I'm thinking of making a Swarm/Salac Sub/Three Attack Heracross. Get to a final Sub, Salac boost, Reversal over Close Combat with Stone Edge for backing, and rampage.
Haven't seen SD brought up yet. I'm going to see how good SD + resist berry Heracross might end up. Occa Berry is good for taking Arcanine. With an Occa Berry, Heracross will always survive a Flare Blitz from Jolly Arcanine (Which Arcanine is going to have to run now) while Jolly +1 Close Combat does 97.72% - 115.38% to Arcanine. If Rotom with HP Flying (lol) start running around, just stick a Coba Berry on the take the HP Flying and rape face with +2 boosted attacks.
If SR is not up (Another scenario), SubRoost Moltres can SubStall out Heracross' Stone Edges and get back to good health should SE miss (Which is likely if you're trying to stall out 4 of them).
Arcanine with Flash Fire + Heracross. Oh god.
Hello Swellow! I predict we will see an increase in fast fire-types and flying-types. Guts Swellow would be an amazing set this meta...
And yeah, I will be perfectly content sweeping your 5 heracross counters with my milotic
On a happier note, bai bai venusaur. And how much does milo take from CC?
Hello Swellow! I predict we will see an increase in fast fire-types and flying-types. Guts Swellow would be an amazing set this meta...
And yeah, I will be perfectly content sweeping your 5 heracross counters with my milotic
On a happier note, bai bai venusaur. And how much does milo take from CC?
Yeah, I see Swellow and perhaps Scyther rising in useage to combat Heracross. And if you're preparing for Heracross with 3 or 4 checks, anything else will steamroll you. :P
Also, I'm going to guess that without Marvel Scale kicking in, Heracross would do maybe 50-60% minimum with Close Combat. I've not run a damage calculation, but I'd assume that'd be from a Scarf set.
Also, I'm going to guess that without Marvel Scale kicking in, Heracross would do maybe 50-60% minimum with Close Combat. I've not run a damage calculation, but I'd assume that'd be from a Scarf set.
People are still experimenting around. It's likely a matter of not being used to it's utmost potential or opponents fussing around with movesets. Give it time, and people will start packing Weezing or Swellow or something on teams.
Also, has anyone been thinking of an AgilityPass to Heracross with Life Orb, Adamant, and perhaps the two coverage moves in Stone Edge and Night Slash? I've been thinking Heracross's speed might be a factor in how it can be checked, and with a bit of team support, I'm quite confident it will pay off. It's the power aspect of it that's getting me a bit on edge.
We haven't started ladder up yet, so I don't think this is the time to start causing a panic. After all, there are still plenty of players and plenty of Pokemon to get through before we start talking about its effects on the metagame. You shouldn't really be inclining towards anything.
I think it should be left out for at least this weekend. I agree, I don't think it's enough time to get a good feel on this new metagame.
i don't see why not? an inclination is a feeling... a gut instinct. as long as you're willing to change your inclination should conditions changes, there's nothing wrong with this....
i played a bunch of heracross uu too and heracross didn't stand out to be broken in any one. but in a few matches i could definitely spot "traces" of what could be considered broken - cb set hard as fuck to switch into, sd set having like two hard counters, good bulk. maybe the fact that i was playing against mostly offensive players with a cb heracross accounted for some of that, but it never made a disproportionate hole in the other guy's team (even against folgorio who was using old non-heracross uu teams). personally i'm not really leaning any way but i can definitely see the arguments for both.
I was asked to not update the UU ladder until AFTER the tour matches this weekend, since this week's tour is UU. Until the update, play friends or do #stark cups to get experience with Heracross in UU.
Personally I like Flame Orb/Toxic orb SD set. Once you switch in you don't even need to SD right away to do damage, provided you scare off whatever was already in. With SD/CC/Megahorn/Facade you hit things like a truck, although without sub it's much riskier overall.
The problem is that offensive checks like Moltres and Scyther and, uh, Venomoth have field days with it, and can scare it away, letting THEM set up and rip holes.
...Theorymonically, since everyone will have one or two Hera checks, since this has been hyped only for forever.
...Theorymonically, since everyone will have one or two Hera checks, since this has been hyped only for forever.
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