Chandelure

Plusle said:
I think shandeera is pretty good. The metagame will just have to adapt to it

Example Log

Start of turn 9
Tyranitar used Stone Edge!
The foe's Cresselia lost 13% of its health!

The foe's Cresselia used Moonlight!
The foe's Cresselia regained health!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Cresselia is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Tyranitar is hurt by poison!
The foe's Cresselia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 10
-PLUSLE- called Tyranitar back!
-PLUSLE- sent out Shanderaa!

The foe's Cresselia used Moonlight!
The foe's Cresselia regained health!

The sandstorm rages!
Shanderaa is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Cresselia is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Shanderaa restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Cresselia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 11
Shanderaa used Substitute!
Shanderaa made a substitute!

The foe's Cresselia used Toxic!
Shanderaa's substitute blocked Toxic!

The sandstorm rages!
Shanderaa is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Cresselia is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Shanderaa restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Cresselia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 12
Shanderaa used Calm Mind!
Shanderaa's Sp. Att. rose!
Shanderaa's Sp. Def. rose!

The foe's Cresselia used Ice Beam!
It's not very effective...
Shanderaa's substitute took the damage!

Lady Umb's reflect wore off!
The sandstorm rages!
Shanderaa is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Cresselia is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Shanderaa restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Cresselia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 13
Shanderaa used Calm Mind!
Shanderaa's Sp. Att. rose!
Shanderaa's Sp. Def. rose!

The foe's Cresselia used Ice Beam!
It's not very effective...
Shanderaa's substitute took the damage!

The sandstorm rages!
Shanderaa is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Cresselia is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Shanderaa restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Cresselia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 14
Shanderaa used Calm Mind!
Shanderaa's Sp. Att. rose!
Shanderaa's Sp. Def. rose!

The foe's Cresselia used Ice Beam!
It's not very effective...
Shanderaa's substitute took the damage!

The sandstorm rages!
Shanderaa is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Cresselia is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Shanderaa restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Cresselia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 15
Shanderaa used Calm Mind!
Shanderaa's Sp. Att. rose!
Shanderaa's Sp. Def. rose!

The foe's Cresselia used Ice Beam!
It's not very effective...
Shanderaa's substitute faded!

The sandstorm rages!
Shanderaa is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Cresselia is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Shanderaa restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Cresselia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 16
Shanderaa used Calm Mind!
Shanderaa's Sp. Att. rose!
Shanderaa's Sp. Def. rose!

The foe's Cresselia used Ice Beam!
It's not very effective...
Shanderaa lost 9 HP! (3% of its health)

The sandstorm rages!
Shanderaa is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Cresselia is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Shanderaa restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Cresselia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 17
Shanderaa used Substitute!
Shanderaa made a substitute!

The foe's Cresselia used Ice Beam!
It's not very effective...
Shanderaa's substitute took the damage!

The sandstorm rages!
Shanderaa is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Cresselia is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Shanderaa restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Cresselia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 18
Shanderaa used Calm Mind!
Shanderaa's Sp. Att. rose!
Shanderaa's Sp. Def. rose!

The foe's Cresselia used Ice Beam!
It's not very effective...
Shanderaa's substitute took the damage!

The sandstorm rages!
Shanderaa is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Cresselia is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Shanderaa restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Cresselia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 19
Shanderaa used Shadow Ball!
It's super effective!
The foe's Cresselia lost 63% of its health!
The foe's Cresselia fainted!

The sandstorm rages!
Shanderaa is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Shanderaa restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Lady Umb sent out Urugamosu!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Urugamosu!

Start of turn 20
The foe's Urugamosu used Fire Blast!
It's not very effective...
Shanderaa's substitute took the damage!

Shanderaa used Shadow Ball!
The foe's Urugamosu lost 40% of its health!
The foe's Urugamosu fainted!

The sandstorm rages!
Shanderaa is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Shanderaa restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Lady Umb sent out Latias!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Latias!

Start of turn 21
The foe's Latias used Surf!
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
Shanderaa's substitute faded!

Shanderaa used Shadow Ball!
It's super effective!
The foe's Latias lost 77% of its health!
The foe's Latias fainted!

The sandstorm rages!
Shanderaa is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Shanderaa restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Lady Umb sent out Torunerosu!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Torunerosu!

Lady Umb: Alright

Start of turn 22
The foe's Torunerosu used Substitute!
The foe's Torunerosu made a substitute!

Shanderaa used Shadow Ball!
The foe's Torunerosu's substitute faded!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Torunerosu is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Shanderaa is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Shanderaa restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 23
The foe's Torunerosu used Substitute!
The foe's Torunerosu made a substitute!
The foe's Torunerosu ate its Petaya Berry!
The Petaya Berry raised the foe's Torunerosu's Sp. Att.!

Shanderaa used Substitute!
Shanderaa made a substitute!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Torunerosu is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Shanderaa is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Shanderaa restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 24
The foe's Torunerosu used Gale!
A critical hit!
Shanderaa's substitute faded!

Shanderaa used Shadow Ball!
The foe's Torunerosu's substitute faded!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Torunerosu is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Shanderaa is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Shanderaa restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 25
The foe's Torunerosu used Gale!
Shanderaa lost 58 HP! (22% of its health)
Shanderaa fainted!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Torunerosu is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Torunerosu fainted!

-PLUSLE- won the battle!

As you can see Cresellia let me set up. The metagame will have to adapt.
Skarm will run shed shell,blissey will run shadow ball etc
Click to expand...

How the heck did you do this? Shadow Tag shanderaa isn't even legal yet.
 
I wish this thing got levitate instead of flash fire/flame body. You could easily bluff shadow tag.
And it would be too late when they find that they couldn't revenge kill it with a ground move...
 
Plusle said:
Dream world abilities are currently legal on pokemon online.
Click to expand...

Interesting, I'll have to check this out.

TwosidedDragon said:
I wish this thing got levitate instead of flash fire/flame body. You could easily bluff shadow tag.
And it would be too late when they find that they couldn't revenge kill it with a ground move...
Click to expand...

Really? Why do you wish that Shanderaa, having two of the best abilities ever, had levitate? I can see it replacing flame body but still.
 
Plusle said:
Dream world abilities are currently legal on pokemon online.
Click to expand...

Is 5th Gen back up now, or is that log from before it got taken down?

Anyways, I do have to agree that many of the dream world abilities might never come out, as we still don't have any details regarding how you obtain pokemon there. However to everyone dismissing Shadown Tag Shand as a threat, remember that if and when it is released, you had better be prepared. The people theorymonning it will probably be better off than you will for a while because they know what to prepare for.

I guess what I'm trying to say is don't dismiss any possible threat yet just because it might not be released by Nintendo in the near future.
 
Nanoswine said:
Is 5th Gen back up now, or is that log from before it got taken down?

Anyways, I do have to agree that many of the dream world abilities might never come out, as we still don't have any details regarding how you obtain pokemon there. However to everyone dismissing Shadown Tag Shand as a threat, remember that if and when it is released, you had better be prepared. The people theorymonning it will probably be better off than you will for a while because they know what to prepare for.

I guess what I'm trying to say is don't dismiss any possible threat yet just because it might not be released by Nintendo in the near future.
Click to expand...

Although it is a possibility we wont get shadow tag shandy (a huge disappointment it would be) we probably still will just not in a timely manner. That means, you cant dismiss the threat just yet. I agree completely with you nano.

If Shanderaa doesn't get shadow tag in the end, meaning it will go with flash fire (I dont see why it would use flame body), who do you think would compliment it well in battle?
 
After playing ~30 battles in Pokemon online today, Shadow Tag Shandy isn't near as broken as I thought. First, if you use Choice Scarf, you become Pursuit bait.
If you don't, you HAVE to chose between Calm Mind, Nitro Charge, and Sub, for support. Nitro Charge + Sub is the best thing I've tested, because calm mind is freaking impossible to pull. Everything physical (and a lot of special pokes, like Sazandora) WILL beat you during Calm Mind set up. It's incredibly difficult to set up will all those weaknesses.

edit: special based pokes that can beat you one on one
Sazandoraa, Blissey (NEEDS shadow ball), kerudio, daikenki, gamageroge, daikenki, loltentacruel, ditto(this thing is AMAZING), and most random scarfers. Suicune was a fun match, we both sub'd and Calm Minded 6 times, but I got a crit. If it werent for it, I don think I could have won.
 
KokoaKiwi said:
After playing ~30 battles in Pokemon online today, Shadow Tag Shandy isn't near as broken as I thought. First, if you use Choice Scarf, you become Pursuit bait.
If you don't, you HAVE to chose between Calm Mind, Nitro Charge, and Sub, for support. Nitro Charge + Sub is the best thing I've tested, because calm mind is freaking impossible to pull. Everything physical (and a lot of special pokes, like Sazandora) WILL beat you during Calm Mind set up. It's incredibly difficult to set up will all those weaknesses.

edit: special based pokes that can beat you one on one
Sazandoraa, Blissey (NEEDS shadow ball), kerudio, daikenki, gamageroge, daikenki, loltentacruel, ditto(this thing is AMAZING), and most random scarfers. Suicune was a fun match, we both sub'd and Calm Minded 6 times, but I got a crit. If it werent for it, I don think I could have won.
Click to expand...

For calm mind sweeps you definitely want to be setting up on something that can't do much to shandera once trapped. How many such opportunities have you had?
 
question: what kind of tyranitar are we talking about?

and cresselia is bait already.

btw you listed daikenki twice, and note that zuruzukin is unbreakable by shandy without sufficient boosts.
And I still think people are overlooking something called choice specs overheat.
 
RocketSurgery said:
For calm mind sweeps you definitely want to be setting up on something that can't do much to shandera once trapped. How many such opportunities have you had?
Click to expand...

Not too much, actually. As of now, only Mewtwo, Ho-oh, Lugia, Kyogre, Groudon, Palkia, Dialga, Giratina, Reshiram, and Zekrom are banned, so it's pretty much an all-out royale.
Everyone's testing everything, and as of now, it's an extremely offensive meta game. Choice Bands/Specs are nowhere to be seen (I'm using 2 switcheroo's in my actual party), whereas I've seen a lot of Scarves.
The best way to set up a shandera sweep is to trick a choice item, lock a normal, bug, or fighting move, AND switch to Shandy before the opponent switches out. Easier said than done.
Also, the most common users of Shed Shell I've encountered are Skarmory, Metagross, and the water/ghost jelly.

Also, Zoroark mindfucks are AWESOME.
In case someone's wondering, my party is Erufuun, Jirachi, Garchomp, Shandera, Daikenki, and Metagross. I don't care if its a bad team, Im testing shit out. :3
 
MoogleEnsign said:
how come latios and latias don't start banned?
Click to expand...

Brand new metagame. Smogon is thinking of starting without bans, so...yeah. lol. Besides, I just battled a Soul Dew Latios and anally raped it Warubiaru, so...yeah. Mostly, stuff with huge BST (660+, iirc) are being banned at the moment. We'll see what happens later on.
 
This thing is easily revenge'd by Scarf Starmie and Scarf Gengar, but it can't be touched except by physical attacks after setting up 6 Calm Minds..
 
Sorry for the dumb comment, but what? I checked Pokemon Online and can't find any server with 5th gen stuff.
 
Arikado said:
This thing is easily revenge'd by Scarf Starmie and Scarf Gengar, but it can't be touched except by physical attacks after setting up 6 Calm Minds..
Click to expand...

yeah this is what makes me think of trying an acid armor set plus u can always use shanderaa as a memento receiver(meaning that you use memento and shadow tag prevents switching to restore its now halved stats).

Also no one has ever commented on my idea of shadow tag teaming shanderaa with goth chick to lower peoples attacking stats massively. this makes getting a cm boosting shanderaa a lot more viable. the trade off is of course in independence. the problem is that shanderaa just doesnt have enough moveslots. id love to run it with nitro charge, cm, sub, and 2 att to cover everything but you just dont have that luxury.... thats y im kinda thinking sub salacing is the closest to viable set(basically sub allows you to take a hit from the rare attacker faster than you or with priority that hurts you)
 
Elfam said:
yeah this is what makes me think of trying an acid armor set plus u can always use shanderaa as a memento receiver(meaning that you use memento and shadow tag prevents switching to restore its now halved stats).

Also no one has ever commented on my idea of shadow tag teaming shanderaa with goth chick to lower peoples attacking stats massively. this makes getting a cm boosting shanderaa a lot more viable. the trade off is of course in independence. the problem is that shanderaa just doesnt have enough moveslots. id love to run it with nitro charge, cm, sub, and 2 att to cover everything but you just dont have that luxury.... thats y im kinda thinking sub salacing is the closest to viable set(basically sub allows you to take a hit from the rare attacker faster than you or with priority that hurts you)
Click to expand...

Odamn that is very smart indeed...
 
red12345 said:
Odamn that is very smart indeed...
Click to expand...

thank you =)

the problem though is critical hits... that and maybe metagross with clear body. my first thought to resolve this was desukan with his infectious mummy ability but as soon as a trapped metagross hit you you would lose shadow tag. I'm just trying to figure a way to make traping as many pokemon as possible viable because the more pokemon you can trap the more likely shanderaa becomes viable.

my thought uxie... with possibly trick, memento, maybe twave, and maybe stealth rock

Any other cool memento users that can help shanderaa?
maybe...
547.png

erufuun w/ mischevious heart (Bliss idea)

-worry seed
-stun spore
-memento
-mybe a screen
 
If you search a memento-user theres is of course Latios. As long as Soul Dew isnt baned he has more Sp. Def than Tyranitar, but it has the same, nasty wakness to Pursuit-Weak and is weak to ghost-attacks, too.

Fuun could be a good idea as a Memento-user, itll use it first even again a fast Scarfer, and he has some completly other waekness trhan Shanderaa.

AN other possybility would be Krypuk, becahuse of its good Typ and defenses but as you said, Selfe would be the best.
 
Bliss said:
If you search a memento-user theres is of course Latios. As long as Soul Dew isnt baned he has more Sp. Def than Tyranitar, but it has the same, nasty wakness to Pursuit-Weak and is weak to ghost-attacks, too.

Fuun could be a good idea as a Memento-user, itll use it first even again a fast Scarfer, and he has some completly other waekness trhan Shanderaa.

AN other possybility would be Krypuk, becahuse of its good Typ and defenses but as you said, Selfe would be the best.
Click to expand...

okay i looked at fuun and love it... no need for scarf right because of mischevious heart giving priority. memento gains priority so it can almost always get it off. also posted sample moveset
 
Elfam said:
thank you =)

the problem though is critical hits... that and maybe metagross with clear body. my first thought to resolve this was desukan with his infectious mummy ability but as soon as a trapped metagross hit you you would lose shadow tag.
Click to expand...

That's not how mummy works. You would need to hit metagross to get mummy. Since shandera won't likely have contact moves, this shouldn't be a problem (and if it does have a contact move like nitro charge, just don't use it!).

As for memento, that sounds like a risky strategy: you're sacrificing a pokemon so that shandera can kill something. I would guess that in the long run it helps more to have that extra pokemon than the one-shot opportunity to take something out. Unless the thing you memento'd is now weak enough to set up on, you'll have to kill the thing and might just get revenge killed then. You'll have to see how many things you can set up on once they have their stats lowered with memento to see if this strategy is viable.
 
RocketSurgery said:
That's not how mummy works. You would need to hit metagross to get mummy. Since shandera won't likely have contact moves, this shouldn't be a problem (and if it does have a contact move like nitro charge, just don't use it!).

As for memento, that sounds like a risky strategy: you're sacrificing a pokemon so that shandera can kill something. I would guess that in the long run it helps more to have that extra pokemon than the one-shot opportunity to take something out. Unless the thing you memento'd is now weak enough to set up on, you'll have to kill the thing and might just get revenge killed then. You'll have to see how many things you can set up on once they have their stats lowered with memento to see if this strategy is viable.
Click to expand...


ok so u must hit him not he must hit you? Well i feel like worry seed fuun would be better now anyway

also good idea to check numbers... ill see what i can do

(yeah i know it seems like a risky strategy but the tone of this thread seemed to be set up and 6KO so i thought try and see if i can make that more viable thanwait for a choiced fighting attack.)
 
Elfam said:
ok so u must hit him not he must hit you? Well i feel like worry seed fuun would be better now anyway

also good idea to check numbers... ill see what i can do
Click to expand...

Dat grammar
Anyway, Worry Seed Erufuun isn't a good choice so for. Already tested it, and it's not nearly as useful as, say, U-Turn and go to a poke to counter Shan (trust me, there's a LOT of pokes so far that can threaten it).
 
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