Vengeance

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R.B.G.

I noticed this while I was coming up with a potential Kurimugan/Crimgan moveset. With all the hype over Dragon Tail, new abilities, and Pokemon, I think there's a lot of good moves that are seriously being overlooked, one of them being this one.

Name - Vengeance
Type - Normal
TM # 67
BP - 70
Description - It takes revenge for a fainted teammate. If a teammate is fainted that turn, the attacks power increases.

Lv100 Pokemon that can learn Vengeance via level up (Notables in Bold)
Arcanine
Marowak
Daikenki
Muurando
Dageki
Kobaruon
Terakion
Birijion
Kerudio
Via TM (Notables in Bold)
Raticate
Clefable
Wigglytuff
Persian
Primeape
Arcanine
Machamp
Farfetch'd (LMFAO)
Marowak
Hitmonlee
Hitmonchan
Lickilicky
Blissey
Kangaskhan
Tauros
Vaporeon
Jolteon
Flareon
Espeon
Umbreon
Leafeon
Glaceon
Snorlax
Mew
Furret
Togekiss
Ambipom
Honchkrow
Girafarig
Granbull
Heracross
Weavile
Ursaring
Houndoom
Stantler
Hitmontop
Miltank
Tyranitar
Mightyena
Linoone
Shiftry
Breloom
Slaking
Exploud
Hariyama
Delcatty
Sableye
Medicham
Sharpedo
Spinda
Cacturne
Zangoose
Seviper
Crawdaunt
Castform
Kecleon
Absol
Latias
Latios
Infernape
Staraptor
Bibarel
Lopunny
Purugly
Spiritomb
Lucario
Drapion
Toxicroak
Gallade
Darkrai
Arceus
Daikenki
Miruhoggu
Roopushin
Nageki
Dageki
Hahakurimo
Warubiaru
Zuruzukin
Zoroak
Chirachiino
Mebukijika
Kojondo
Kurimugan
Kirikizan
Baffuron
Wargle
Barujiina
Alanto
Kobaruon
Terakion
Birijion
Kerudio
Meloetta

Don't get me wrong, the move doesn't have a crap-your-pants effect, but some very interesting scenes involving revenge killing occured to me with this move.

The most notable pokemon to get this seems to be Warubiaru, who has the Overconfidence ability, which raises Attack one stage after each KO. Normal offers pretty good type coverage, and Dark covers Ghost which is immune to Normal. The last types not covered by our hypothetical Warubiaru are Rock and Steel, which are both hit super effective by Warubiaru's Ground STAB
Discuss. :)
 
Does it work the turn after something gets killed or only one the turn something actually dies? I can see them having made this as a "multi-battle gimmick move". But it could also be a deadly revenge-killing mechanism. Anyone tested it?
 
It might be a waste of a move slot, considering pokémon with vengeance could only switch onto 5 possible revenge kills (5 other teammates.)
 
I don´t think that Jolteon can do a good use of this move (being it a phisical move), but Muurando have 100 Base Attack, STAB and 3 good abilities for use with it.
 
I'm thinking it's like this

Pokemon A: used move Pokemon B fainted
Switch to Pokemon C: Pokemon C used Vengeance (140 power)
This seems interesting for revenge killing if what I think is right.

Also Farfetch is going to take revenge for you fainted Salamence.
 
It's clearly for revenge-killing, even the name suggests that lol. Why is Murando not being considered? In my opinion he makes the best use of it: his speed doubles in sand and STAB on a 140 base power move is great. The likes of Birijion and Terakion probably have better options anyway so I can only see Murando making use of it.
 
Description - It takes revenge for a fainted teammate. If a teammate is fainted that turn, the attacks power increases.
Click to expand...

If the description is right about it being on the same turn it would definitely have to be used in doubles/tripples with a slower pokemon if you wanted it to be any better than a nonSTAB neutral HP (In a TR situation obviously faster). Could also time it with your poke fainting from using his LO, Toxic, or maybe abusing it by switching in a poke that will die to an entry hazard.
 
Just got the TM for this move from Aloe, pretty sure it still has double power on the next turn. I even developed a strategy to lead off with an HM slave and die on the 1st turn, then send in Futachimaru for 2x power.
Competitively I don't see much usage in this move -- it's rather predictable and 140 power isn't that huge, especially when unstabbed.
 
Aureolin said:
If the description is right about it being on the same turn it would definitely have to be used in doubles/tripples with a slower pokemon if you wanted it to be any better than a nonSTAB neutral HP (In a TR situation obviously faster). Could also time it with your poke fainting from using his LO, Toxic, or maybe abusing it by switching in a poke that will die to an entry hazard.
Click to expand...
This description is actually incorrect.

Power of this move is doubled if teammate has fainted during previous turn. This move does work in singles, and works in doubles even if Vengeance user was not present on the field when teammate was KO'd. Boosts do not apply during the turn when teammate is being KO'd, even if Vengeance user moved after teammate has fainted. Not a lot of research was done about behavior of this move in triples, but boosts does not seem to stack in dobules (if both teammates who were out fainted, Vengeance will still have it's power only doubled next turn), so presumably they also won't in triples.


Move itself still doesn't have a lot of value otherwise, so I can't see it being a popular choice over, let's say, Return.
 
140 bp isn't really enough power to justify such a situational move- it will only have 140 bp at most 5 times during the match, and you'll be assuming you can hit the opposing pokemon with it harder than any of your other moves, which tbh is unlikely, since stab eq/stone edge/cc (main three physical types) are 150 bp with stab. Even if it is the best move to use versus your opponent, then it can still easily be ruined by a switch to a steel, rock, or ghost, and he doesn't seem very good outside of this move plus sand throw. The extra move is better used for extra coverage on a revenger, even if it is just return.
 
This move hasn't really been neglected - it actually already has it's own thread here. Confusingly enough, "Vengeance" has previously been translated as both Retaliation and Get Even. :/

Nice to know that it works in singles, at least. May see some kind of use as a STAB for normal-type Revengers, but I doubt other types will have much reason to use this due to it's poor coverage and for being a bit too situational.
 
140 bp normal attack is just meh
most pokes get equal bp with their respective stabs and these are usually more useful than this especially, because its so situational it maybe would be interesting if it would triple its base power (or just have a higher bp to begin with, 70 is pretty bad).
May see some use on pokemon that want to be revenge killers but, lack other choices, although return is still more reliable on them.

A good idea wasted, because of a bad type and low base power
 
Gimmicky. That's all I can say.

But it's good on Choice Scarfers. Get in after your Pokemon is KOed, revenge kill with Vengeance, get out. Not a good strategy, is it?
 
Return=better than Vengeance. I'd rather have my revenge killer be able to sweep lategame with a 102.5 base power move (is that its base power?) than a 70 base power one.
 
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