It's not broken at all, but scarf'd its still a major threat. Even though afterwards you lose your Shanderaa to Ditto if your opponent has one.
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Chandelure
- Thread starter tennisace
- Start date
It's not broken at all, but scarf'd its still a major threat. Even though afterwards you lose your Shanderaa to Ditto if your opponent has one.
Until it's actually banned on Pokemon Online, people can still use it to test out strategies with it, so I think there's still merit in talking about it if people find something interesting to do with it, as those ideas might still be useful if it ever gets released.
But at this point I think we can agree that shadow tag shandera on its own is not proving to be as broken as people feared, even with shandera's frightening spatk stat. It'll take some clever strategy that is consistently able to score wins before we really can call it broken.
Or T-Tar, Doryuuzu, Sazandra, CB Scizor [if you're locked in shadow ball or energy ball]...basically anything that resists your move and has pursuit.
For the millionth time, can we talk about shandera without Shadow Tag? D:
edit: as far as i know, Digimon is down, and I hear this rumor Coyotte will disable Dream World abilities. Than again, there's no proof about this whatsoever.
-_- I want for the server to be up again. I still wanna play Gen V.
Ditto can't trap Shanderaa since you switch a Shadow Tag Pokemon out of another Shadow Tag Pokemon. Also, if you're locked into Shadow Ball with a Choice Scarf, Ditto has a 50% chance of going second and getting KO'd. Anything that has Pursuit and resists the move it's locked into, however, can trap it easily.
It may not exist yet, but it is the factor that everyone seems to be worried about the most. As it's been said before, its low speed really hinders its sweeping ability (trapping with a subCM set will not be sweeping well-built teams often). Scarf Shanderaa doesn't get revenged by Ditto since both Pokemon will have Shadow Tag and thus can both switch out. Scarf does seem to be its most practical use since it lets you revenge a bunch of things no problem, though it does more or less ask for a Pursuiter to come in and kill you (Tyranitar in particular). The amount of people running Shed Shell just for Shanderaa makes it a lot less effective than it might be otherwise, since it can't trap any of the walls that it threatens.KokoaKiwi said:
K, last set I tested the other day.
Shandy @ Balloon!
Flash Fire ftw.
Timid, 252 SpA / 6def / 252 speed
~Nitro Charge
~HP Ground
~Fire Blast
~Shadow Ball
Feels so damn good to come in Heatran with impunity, since I'm immune to 3/4 of most Heatran's movesets (Fire blast, earth power, and explosion). I can happily spam Nitro Charge on the switch and procede to dent everything before forced to switch out or get revenged. Kudos if you manage to hit Doryuuzu with Fire Blast in the switch.
Anyway, with 4 immunities you have a relatively easy time switching in, provided you have a nice spinner. I paired it with Starmie, but that was a terrible idea (pursuit weakness much).
Shandy @ Balloon!
Flash Fire ftw.
Timid, 252 SpA / 6def / 252 speed
~Nitro Charge
~HP Ground
~Fire Blast
~Shadow Ball
Feels so damn good to come in Heatran with impunity, since I'm immune to 3/4 of most Heatran's movesets (Fire blast, earth power, and explosion). I can happily spam Nitro Charge on the switch and procede to dent everything before forced to switch out or get revenged. Kudos if you manage to hit Doryuuzu with Fire Blast in the switch.
Anyway, with 4 immunities you have a relatively easy time switching in, provided you have a nice spinner. I paired it with Starmie, but that was a terrible idea (pursuit weakness much).
I thought Ditto copied the choice scarf boost too, and then got its own scarf boost on top of it? That was what I got from the Ditto thread; perhaps I misunderstood.
Have you tried any sets with Flame Body? Although a 4th immunity is nice, depending on how often shandera is getting taken out by pursuiters or other physical attackers, having a chance at burning them as they take shandera out could be useful to whatever has to come in and take down shandera's murderer.
Problem is, Flame Body is a tad unreliable. Burning stuff that try to Aqua Jet is extremely nice, but the 30% is a big turn off, imo. I guess I'll test that too when PO is back.
It certainly doesn't work that way on Pokemon Online and I'm pretty sure someone tested it in the Research Thread as well. It makes sense since Choice Scarf isn't actually a boost (a Pokemon with +1 Speed and Scarf would have x2.25 Spe instead of x2 like it would if it were +2).
On an unrelated note, I just broke the chain of Shanderaa avatars.
Edit: KokoaKiwi: I don't see a point in not running Shadow Tag if it's allowed but that set could be good on Pokemon Lab before it gets the Dream World Abilities.
Even if Shadow Tag is allowed, Flash Fire can catch some stuff off guard, especially when they don't even bother in checking if they can switch out. Or, you could just bring Shandy in a fire move. :3 You also need a Shandera avatar asap to prevent combo breakers.
It really depends on how frequently you can get the flash fire boost. If you can consistently come in on a fire attack and get a boost, flash fire will likely be better, but if it ends up not doing much for you, a 30% chance to burn your foe as you go down is better than a 0% chance.
If the "see team before battle" mechanic stays in place, the foe might be more cautious using a fire attack on obvious lures, fearing giving shandera a flash fire boost. In such a metagame flame body could feasibly be useful.
I don't necessarily expect flame body to be more useful, but it should be tested. And hey - you wanted to talk about non-shadow tag shandera, so I've obliged your request by talking about flame body shandera. >; )
ooohh, touché.
But being serious, the only reason I've never tested Flame Body, is because most stuff just try to hit with Boiling Water / Stone Edge / Earthquake, none of which have physical contact. Then again, burning an Outrage dragon or a physical water seems rather cool (ironically). fsjad I demand for a Poke Online server asap. D:
In fact most of the really common contact attacks fall under Fighting and sometimes Normal, both of which Shand is immune to anyway. Flame Body hardly seems worth it. Especially since WoW is much more reliable. And you don't really want Shand getting hit by an outrage anyway since it's liable to do tons of damage.
I was admittedly thinking of the ability as a chance to burn a foe who takes you down with pursuit after you've killed something and they come in to revenge kill. I didn't expect much use outside of that. I certainly wouldn't leave shandera in to take a contact hit if I could switch out and save it for later.
(And I'm not even saying I expect flame body to be worth it! I myself will use flash fire or shadow tag first, and would test flame body for fun later to see if it had any use. I imagine it would be a short test.)
This thing seems to come in most on Lead Perts and stuff like CB Scizors locked onto BP or Pursuit. It then Energy Balls/Flamethrowers it do death. While it is annoying, Shadow Tag is manageable, especially when it gets locked into Energy Ball and then YOU Pursuit it to death.
Sub-CM sets seem to have better chances at sweeping that Choiced Shadow Tag Shanderaa.
Sub-CM sets seem to have better chances at sweeping that Choiced Shadow Tag Shanderaa.
Most teams can deal with Sub CM. This was THE set before pokémon online allowed us to play. Usually, if you know exactly what to do, you'll get 2 kill at most. Sounds amazing, but stuff like Sazandra or Doryuuzu can get as much kills with one turn of set up, or no set up at all.
Hm, I think I'm starting to understand the general consensus a little more. So long as you have a reliable Pursuit user on your team, Shandy can only get one kill at best before being removed from the game. Sure, I can understand that, especially since it's either scarfed, which leaves it vulnerable to Tyranitar, Scizor, or Weavile, or just a slow, standard sweeping set, which is...slow.
The problem I'm anticipating, however, is Garchomp-level metagame centralization to minimize its effectiveness, with a side of the Wobbuffet doctrine of "one guaranteed kill per game". I'm talking about keeping Shed Shell on Heatran, Brozong, and other Steels types, and making the rest of their sets effectively non-viable. This is looking to become a real problem once the metagame actually develops.
The problem I'm anticipating, however, is Garchomp-level metagame centralization to minimize its effectiveness, with a side of the Wobbuffet doctrine of "one guaranteed kill per game". I'm talking about keeping Shed Shell on Heatran, Brozong, and other Steels types, and making the rest of their sets effectively non-viable. This is looking to become a real problem once the metagame actually develops.
http://www.smogon.com/dp/abilities/mold_breaker
Flame Body doesn't prevent any moves from Ononokusu at all, so Mold Breaker doesn't nullify it.