If Shandera was faster it would be more of a threat, but anything that covers one of its weaknesses can potentially OHKO it.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Chandelure
- Thread starter tennisace
- Start date
If Shandera was faster it would be more of a threat, but anything that covers one of its weaknesses can potentially OHKO it.
I personally would not be switching in T-Tar on Shandera with Gusto since Shandera can always run Substitute so its something like you switch in T-tar while Shandera gets a sub on your switch, then Shandera gets a free turn to do what it likes. It can switch out to something that resists a dark move or it can get ballsy and stay in attempting to CM up or just fire off an HP Fighting which will cripple Tyranitar. Also certain teams may appreciate T-tar being crippled (for example if I am running a Sun Team then I really appreciate T-tar going down or at least crippling T-tar at the cost of losing Shandera.
I still think that Shandera will prove to be useful in standard (provided it stays there)
I still think that Shandera will prove to be useful in standard (provided it stays there)
Can Doryuuzu be switched in when another pokemon (i.e., Snorlax) is being trapped by Shandera's Shadow Tag? I don't think Doryuuzu's Mold Breaker has effect when it is not on the field.
no mold breaker only bypasses ablitys when he attacks.
^Ikr there like fucking everywhere >__>.
Anyway i do agree without Shadow tag shandera wont do something like the "Garchomp affect" but its still a very dangerous poke and the Scarf set is simply amazing.Tbh i always thought Shadow tag is kind of broken so lets just hope GF gets lazy again and decides not to event it =P
Edit:Lol 222 =3
Anyway i do agree without Shadow tag shandera wont do something like the "Garchomp affect" but its still a very dangerous poke and the Scarf set is simply amazing.Tbh i always thought Shadow tag is kind of broken so lets just hope GF gets lazy again and decides not to event it =P
Edit:Lol 222 =3
I'll jsut be sticking to my balloon shandy with flash fire. I'll take 5 immunities any day.
-_- Troll freak scrwed badly by publishing (or whatever they did) the Dream World abilities before their actual release.
As far as I know, dream world abilities are not preset and game freak can gaive any pokemon any ability. Here's still hoping for Levitate as an ability.
-_- Troll freak scrwed badly by publishing (or whatever they did) the Dream World abilities before their actual release.
As far as I know, dream world abilities are not preset and game freak can gaive any pokemon any ability. Here's still hoping for Levitate as an ability.
They're programmed into the game, because the abilities can be passed through breeding.
And Flash Fire Shandera only has 4 immunities with the balloon (until it's popped). ;)
Most of ghost pokemons may be used as spin blockers, but I think Shandera Shadow Tag even do more: A spin KILLER!!
Shandera @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Modest
EVs:164 HP/92 Speed/252 Special atk
Moveset:
Flamethrower
Shadowball
Energyball
Psychic
Here is the list of spinner in Black and White:
http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-bw/rapidspin.shtml
With 92 EVs for speed and choice scarf, Shandera is faster than the fastest spinner, Starmie. The moveset above ensure that Shandera hit super effectively ALL spinners in the game, except two NEVERUSED pokemons, Spinda and Torkoal (and personally I think those 2 pokemons would never have a chance to meet a Shadow Tag Shandera in battle, as their power are too different).
Modest nature and 252 EVs brings the special attack of Shandera to sky level, what is even higher than any Timid Mewtwo/Kyogre. With Shadow Tag and the move pool above, there is no way for your opponent to save his spinner, once Shandera is thrown to the field.
Finally, the bases 90 def and 90 special def are quite good, and 164 EVs for HP make this pokemon bulky. With HP invested, Shandera is unlikely to be 1KOed unless hurt by a powerful move that is boosted by both STAB and super effective.
More specifically for most popular spinners nowadays (assume that the spinner only have maximum 87% HP due to entry hazard - as spinning is the reason why they are switched in):
- Flamethrower KO Forretress and Doryuuzu (and bonus for non-spinner Scizor/Skarmony also XD)
- Shadowball KO Starmie and Claydol (bonus non-spinner non-scarf Gengar)
- Energyball KO Donphan and Kabutops (also good for Swampert)
- Psychic KO Hitmontop and hurt Tentacruel
Shandera @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Modest
EVs:164 HP/92 Speed/252 Special atk
Moveset:
Flamethrower
Shadowball
Energyball
Psychic
Here is the list of spinner in Black and White:
http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-bw/rapidspin.shtml
With 92 EVs for speed and choice scarf, Shandera is faster than the fastest spinner, Starmie. The moveset above ensure that Shandera hit super effectively ALL spinners in the game, except two NEVERUSED pokemons, Spinda and Torkoal (and personally I think those 2 pokemons would never have a chance to meet a Shadow Tag Shandera in battle, as their power are too different).
Modest nature and 252 EVs brings the special attack of Shandera to sky level, what is even higher than any Timid Mewtwo/Kyogre. With Shadow Tag and the move pool above, there is no way for your opponent to save his spinner, once Shandera is thrown to the field.
Finally, the bases 90 def and 90 special def are quite good, and 164 EVs for HP make this pokemon bulky. With HP invested, Shandera is unlikely to be 1KOed unless hurt by a powerful move that is boosted by both STAB and super effective.
More specifically for most popular spinners nowadays (assume that the spinner only have maximum 87% HP due to entry hazard - as spinning is the reason why they are switched in):
- Flamethrower KO Forretress and Doryuuzu (and bonus for non-spinner Scizor/Skarmony also XD)
- Shadowball KO Starmie and Claydol (bonus non-spinner non-scarf Gengar)
- Energyball KO Donphan and Kabutops (also good for Swampert)
- Psychic KO Hitmontop and hurt Tentacruel
lolwat, still thinking shandera is too much for OU? Don't even go near Doryuuzu's thread, kids.
Also, why the hell would anyone use Psychic? Fire Blast hits with the exact same power.
Super effective psychic =180.
STAB fire blast =180.
Everything being currently discussed was mentioned in page 11, iirc. :3
Also, why the hell would anyone use Psychic? Fire Blast hits with the exact same power.
Super effective psychic =180.
STAB fire blast =180.
Everything being currently discussed was mentioned in page 11, iirc. :3
Why can't you use WillOWisp? Or maybe even Acid Armor? Purgatory (assuming it hits) will be not very effective anyways...
I'm sure he suggested this because of the 100% burn rate. As you suggested, WoW is way better, considering the 25% extra accuracy. Imo, Acid Armor is just meh. I'd rather cripple T-Tar for the entire match instead of attempting to stall it, especially because a critical may eventually occur.
Fire blast is not reliable. For example, when you successfully trap a Forretress, as there is no way to escape, it will hit you as hard as it can. If your Fire Blast missed, I don't think Shandera is okay to suffer one pay back from Forretress. Same thing to trap Scizor.
Not entirely correct. For one, plenty of Forretress run Shed Shell and could switch out, and two, Payback from a 112 Atk EVs Forry does 62.1% - 73.6% to a Shanderaa with no defensive investment, ie a 2HKO. CB Scizor does always OHKO Shanderaa with Pursuit, though, so unless you switch in while it's locked into Bullet Punch, you'll lose that match-up.
Still, 85% accuracy is honestly not that bad at all. There's always going to be some hax, but eh. That's not even mentioning Psychic's poor coverage.
Shandera's defenses aren't bulky. At all. 60/90/90 is terrible for an all out offensive metagame. Therefore, I chose Fire Blast to deal as much damage as posible before going down.
See? Pokemon with huge attacking stats are given out very commonly in this generation, as well as awesome set up moves (Butterfly Dance, Tail Glow is now +3 SpA, Gear Change, Cheer Up and Claw Sharpen are TMs, etc.).
I'm not sure I see your point...
Also, @the other poster, I lold @ 506 hp. Not sure what are you smoking, tho.
Note that Shandera can act as a useful supporter with Shadow Tag as well, unlike Wobbuffet. It can set up Sunny Day and fire off Solarbeams against choice-locked pokes. The combo of grass, fire and rock is unresisted in this metagame, too.
I don't think its viable due to the amount of Tyranitars. Besides, we don't have Shadow Tag yet. D:
lol
There's also Drought Ninetails (which we also don't have yet) that can set up permanent Sun just by switching in.
lmfao @ Shandera uber
Kyogre OHKOs even if Shandy's at +3/+3. Everything in ubers is faster, can hit for SE damage, etc.
If Shandera gets shadow tag, she'll make it to OU. Otherwise, Im guessing BL.
60/90/90 defenses are terrible for this generation, combined with 70 speed.
edit: why are people still overhyped at this? Shandera's my favorite poke design wise, but after testing her a lot, she ain't THAT good imo.
Right response, wrong reason. A pokemon's effectiveness in Ubers has no effect upon it's tiering.
The reason it won't be uber is because he's honestly not that great. Scarf shandera just gets revenge killed immediately by ttar or snorlax, and nonscarf is too slow. I've had a sub shandy set up to +6/+6 on blissey. I forced it out without it getting a kill.