Good bye Gen 4. (Offensive OU RMT)

[Methmite]

Oh jeez. How long has it been? I lost track, but this is my latest team, after a lot of tinkering and moding, I'm finally happy with it. The team has a few weaknesses that makes me sad, but hopefully you guys can help me with that. I tried to make this as pretty as I could, Enjoy the read fellas! (NOTE: thanks to shoddy/pokelab being down I haven't been able to test out the latest changes yet.)

AND WITHOUT FURTHER ADO:

Edit: The basic principle is to set up for a Gyarados Sweep. Scizor and Heatran make excellent revenge killers, while Jirachi and Jolteon help cover Gyarado's main checks and counters. Jirachi also functions as a bait and killer for his a few of his own checks, and can sweep if the situation calls for it. Celebi provides stealth rocks support and some key Type coverage to the team.

Magnifying Glass

IN DEPTH LOOK

Timid Celebi@Leftovers (40/252/216) (HP/SPA/SPE)
-Stealth Rock
-Leaf Storm
-Earth Power
-Uturn
A little unconventional for a lead yeah. Celebi takes care of what i need it to. It's the stealth rocker of this team, giving some of the best support any offensive team can ask for. Leaf Storm and Earth Power give great type coverage and lets me destroy things like swampert and heatran (as well as many other common leads) Uturn is to follow up stealth rocks or hit something I know celebi cant OHKO or 2HKO and get in an appropriate counter. Celebi also works with Heatran and Gyarados to make a F/W/G synergy on the team.

Naive Heatran@Choice Scarf
-Flamethrower
-Earthpower
-Explosion
-HP [Electric]
Of all the pokemon I've ever used, Heatran is one of my favorite. Flash fire, plus Flamethrower, is devestating - as even things that resist fire, get destroyed by the double stab. Hetran is usually thrown in on the fireblasts Celebi, Scizor, and Jirachi tend to attract, and revenge kill as necessary. Bar Leafstorm (on Celebi), Explosion and HP [electric] are my number one answers to bulky waters that would otherwise hinder this team.

Adamant Scizor@Choice Band (240/252/16) (HP/ATK/SPE)
-Superpower
-Bullet Punch
-Pursuit
-Uturn
Ahhh, my favorite pokemon ever makes another appearance on a team of mine. I've been runnining and loving the Choice Band Scizor build since I figured it out (which was before I even went on smogon (Granted the only similarities between mine and smogons was Bullet Punch and Uturn)). thanks to a sexy 90 base priority, Scizor can take down many common threats quickly and efficiantly. I run Scizor mainly as a revenge killer, though he can also be a great clutch pokemon (He's given me victories out of 3-1 before). I run my EV's a little different than usual. I sacrifice a bit of survivability for extra speed. While it may seem like a stupid and insignificant drop/gain (2 points) most people who run CB scizor run it the way smogon tells them (248/8). giving 2 extra points to speed lets me out run himself, so he can Uturn to a more appropriate counter (the whole lower speed to take advantage of Superpower debuff is stupid, IMHO. It's really only helpful when Scizor is the last poke left, in which case I'd be better off spamming bullet punch.)

Adamant Gyarados@ Leftovers (156/72/96/184) (HP/ATK/DEF/SPE)
-Taunt
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Stone Edge
The center of this team. There is about 3 synergies working in favor of Gyarados on this team. He has a F/W/G in Heatran and Celebi, the GyaraJolt with Jolteon, and near perfect type coverage with his partner in sweep Jirachi. Its a basic Bulky DD Gyarados. Ideally, I come in on an earthquake, get a dragon dance on the switch, and respond accordingly. If its a physical wall or phaser I taunt them - keeping them from spreading unwanted status onto my Gyarados as well as keeping him in the fight. After the taunt, they either switch or tickle with their 1 one attack, so i dragon dance again. after 2 or 3 dances, VERY little withstands a Gyarado's onslaught, and its usually game.

Timid Jolteon@ Choice Specs (4/252/252) (HP/SPA/SPE)
-Thunderbolt
-Signal Beam
-Shadow Ball
-HP [Grass]
The second part of the infamous GyaraJolt. Jolteon works more or less as a "check" checker. his job is to switch in on a predicted Tbolt or thunderwave, and take out what ever was tying to kill gyarados. Tbolt gives a powerful stab, while Shadow Ball and Signal Beam give additional type coverage - nessessary for a specs. I've tried other things in signal beam slot, heal bell and Twave, mostly, I found just having the type coverage (however crappy bug is) is just better. HP [Grass] Lets me hit ground types (Swampert and Hippowdon) who are bound to switch in. on poor Jolteon.

Timid Jirachi@ Leftovers (4/252/252) (HP/SPA/SPE)
-Calm Mind
-HP [Ground]
-Psychic
-Thunderbolt
My Special sweeper. Jirachi does a lot on this team. Most notably, he supports Gyarados, both type wise and set wise. Since Jirachi covers Gyarado's weaknesses (and vice versa) nearly perfectly, Jirachi can jump in on many checks and counters for Gyarados and set up his own sweep. Psychic is nice, as its 10% sp.def reduction jumps to 20% (more common than you might think) and is stab. Tbolt gives great coverage, and HP [Ground] gives me cover on slow fire types (namely non-scarfed heatran (which i see more and more of lately), as well as additional type coverage.

Some things I dont like, I know i have a huge weakness to stealth rock, as the team does a lot of switching, and only one thing resists rock (rest of the team is neutral or SE). I thought about adding a Rapid Spin, but it doesn't really fit. Forretress and Starmie (Tentacruel has no place on an offensive team) are really my only choices, and since Forretress has the same typing as Scizor, doubling up may not be a good idea. Starmie (whom ican always just run as a sweper with 4/252/252 LO Recover/Tbolt/IceBeam/RapidSpin, can really only replace Jirachi or Jolteon; the former who has much better synergies with the team, and the latter doesn't share weaknesses with Gyarados. Ideally, my lead can take out there's before they drop any, but with a lot of 120-130 base Stealth Rockers, I cant guarantee it.

2nd Weakness I know i have is bulky waters. My only check is celebi and Heatran. Celebi requires a OHKO with leafstorm, or the SP.ATK debuff is going to screw him, while Heatran is just weak to STAB water type attacks. I've toyed with the idea of switching Tbolt for Grass knot and HP [Ground] to [Fire] on Jirachi, but I'm not sure its worth it - again, I havent been able to test my most resent changes for a while now. Feedback would be great.

SkarmBliss may get in the way of this team, if only because it gets in the way of absolutely everything. Lacking a mixed attacker, my idea for dealing with this would be Gyarados. He can taunt both of them, leaving Blissey to a seismic toss, and Skarmory to a Brave bird (without roost recoil recovery) and Dragon dance until he can blow through Skarmory with a STAB neutral Waterfall. (which also just began my sweep).

Edit: I also have been thinking about making Celebi a bit more Support oriented, with Stealth Rocks, Twave, Grass Knot, Heal Bell Thoughts?

So yeah, that's it really. If you guys *REALLY* want to see the progression of this team, I'll edit it in later, but so far this has taken a good hour. So I'm done. The Reserved Threat List may not be updated anytime soon - if only because of the Pokelab/Shoddy being down.


thanks again fellas!
-Methmite

 

[Methmite]

Reserved for Threat List

Offensive Threats

Aerodactyl -

Azelf

Breloom

Dragonite

Electivire

Empoleon

Flygon

Gengar

Gyarados

Heatran

Heracross

Infernape

Jirachi

Jolteon

Kingdra

Lucario

Machamp

Magnezone

Mamoswine

Metagross

Ninjask

Roserade

Scizor

Smeargle

Starmie

Togekiss

Tyranitar

Weavile

Defensive Threats

Blissey

Bronzong

Celebi

Dusknoir

Forretress

Gliscor

Hippowdon

Rotom-A

Skarmory

Snorlax

Suicune

Swampert

Tentacruel

Vaporeon

Zapdos

 

[Aerrow]

Nice team.

Threats

• A vast variety of set up sweepers
• DD Dragonite and Gyarados
• Infernape
• Machamp
• Substitute Heatran
• Offensive Bulky Waters

Right away, after reading your team, I see a huge set up sweeper weakness as half of the Pokemon in your team are bound by choice items. I, definitely am not saying that including a large amount of choice Pokemon is bad thing, as in previous teams I have seen, this strategy has been fruitful, but only because those team have been able to keep up momentum; a factor your team can not do. Specifically, DD Dragonite and Gyarados present huge problems as both can set up on a resisted move and continue to out speed and pretty much KO your entire team if they are running standard move sets. Both NP Ape and Machamp are problems for your team due to their sheer power and in Infernape's case, access to priority allowing it to defeat the likes of your Heatran and Jolteon. Also, substitute Heatran is quite a threat as if it can get one sub up, it's almost guaranteed you'll be losing 1-2 Pokemon in the process of defeating said threat. Finally, your team is slightly vulnerable to bulky water types namely Suicune, Vaporeon and Swampert.

Solutions

• Choice Scarf Jolteon
• Defensive Rotom-W

[box]

Rotom-w @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/168 Def/88 Spd
Bold nature (+Def,-Atk)
- Discharge
- Hydro Pump
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp[/box]
Luckily, a couple of changes can be made to help with the aforementioned threats as well as improving your team's synergy in a general view. First of all, I strongly recommend you replace the choice specs on your Jolteon with a choice scarf. This will allow it to successfully revenge kill both DD Gyarados and DD Dragonite even after a DD while also being able to help against the other set up sweepers that your team has troubles with along with Heatran. This however leaves you quite vulnerable to Bulky water tpes as only Heatran will truely be able to handle them after a CM, and that too, with Explosion. For this reason, I highly recommend replacing Scizor, which in my opinion seems likes the least useful Pokemon on the team with Rotom-H. Rotom-H seems like a great fit on your team as it is able to combat most of the aforementioned threats while also providing a defensive pivot for your team along with inflicting the ever so welcome burn staus upon opponent's seeing as how most of your team's threats are mostly physically based. On another note, Rotom can also help with the fighting types that seem to be giving your team problems due to its typing. I hope this helps, and good luck!

 

[Methmite]

Nice team.

Threats

• A vast variety of set up sweepers
• DD Dragonite and Gyarados
• Infernape
• Machamp
• Substitute Heatran
• Offensive Bulky Waters

Right away, after reading your team, I see a huge set up sweeper weakness as half of the Pokemon in your team are bound by choice items. I, definitely am not saying that including a large amount of choice Pokemon is bad thing, as in previous teams I have seen, this strategy has been fruitful, but only because those team have been able to keep up momentum; a factor your team can not do. Specifically, DD Dragonite and Gyarados present huge problems as both can set up on a resisted move and continue to out speed and pretty much KO your entire team if they are running standard move sets. Both NP Ape and Machamp are problems for your team due to their sheer power and in Infernape's case, access to priority allowing it to defeat the likes of your Heatran and Jolteon. Also, substitute Heatran is quite a threat as if it can get one sub up, it's almost guaranteed you'll be losing 1-2 Pokemon in the process of defeating said threat. Finally, your team is slightly vulnerable to bulky water types namely Suicune, Vaporeon and Swampert.

Solutions

• Choice Scarf Jolteon
• Defensive Rotom-W

[box]

Rotom-w @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/168 Def/88 Spd
Bold nature (+Def,-Atk)
- Discharge
- Hydro Pump
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp[/box]
Luckily, a couple of changes can be made to help with the aforementioned threats as well as improving your team's synergy in a general view. First of all, I strongly recommend you replace the choice specs on your Jolteon with a choice scarf. This will allow it to successfully revenge kill both DD Gyarados and DD Dragonite even after a DD while also being able to help against the other set up sweepers that your team has troubles with along with Heatran. This however leaves you quite vulnerable to Bulky water tpes as only Heatran will truely be able to handle them after a CM, and that too, with Explosion. For this reason, I highly recommend replacing Scizor, which in my opinion seems likes the least useful Pokemon on the team with Rotom-H. Rotom-H seems like a great fit on your team as it is able to combat most of the aforementioned threats while also providing a defensive pivot for your team along with inflicting the ever so welcome burn staus upon opponent's seeing as how most of your team's threats are mostly physically based. On another note, Rotom can also help with the fighting types that seem to be giving your team problems due to its typing. I hope this helps, and good luck!

I was putting my team into a team builder for PO, and i was actually thinking the same thing "Why do i have 3 choice". I over looked that in my initial build.

I agree with Scizor - his role was mostly as a revenge killer, which isnt nessessary if you switch to a scarf on Jolteon. I chose specs, cause jolteon has the fastest speed in OU (bar Ninjask). I didnt think about boosts. About Rotom. you said Rotom-H, but the build you provided is Rotom-W. I'm just confused as to who you think its better to replace.

Lastly, What do you think of Heatran? I for one never likes the scarf build on him, but it was the only thing that really fit into the team (I dont like Life Orb recoil, especially on bulky pokemon, without a recovery move.)


Thanks again for the help man!

 

[Faladran]

If you don't like using Choice Scarf on Heatran, you could always try out a different set. I personally find the Choice Scarf set to be rather outdated; one of its only advantages seems to be the ability to check SD Lucario, who you already have well-covered with Gyarados' Intimidate. Fortunately, Heatran has a wide variety of effective sets at its disposal. In this case, I think that a PasshoTran set would be the best fit for your team. It slightly fixes up a weakness to LO Starmie, a threat that you currently have trouble dealing with. If you go with Aerrow's unusual but effective Scarf Jolteon suggestion, you'll at least have a check to Starmie. However, switching Jolteon in without taking major damage is quite difficult, meaning an extra precaution against Starmie would be helpful. Here is the set:

[box]

Heatran @ Passho Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Nature: Mild (+SpA, -Def)
- Explosion
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power Grass [/box]
This set is great on offensive teams for its abilities to put pressure on the opponent and take out any troublesome Water-types. With a Passho Berry, even LO Starmie's Hydro Pump won't be OHKOing you, meaning you can survive to use Explosion (or HP Grass if it's weakened). The rest of the moves are quite standard: Flamethrower for accurate and solid STAB, Earth Power for hitting opposing Heatran on the switch, and HP Grass for Swampert and other Water-types.

Good luck with your team!

 

[Aerrow]

Sorry about the confusion, I meant Rotom-W.

 

[Methmite]

@Fal, that looks interesting. I'll try it out thanks for the idea. the 36 HP EV's, what do they let me survive? debating if its worth not being able to tie with other max heatrans.

@Aerrow, No problem, I was just wondering. I personally LOVE Rotom-H. Overheat covers steels really well, which gives his devensive set something the other Rotom's can't do as efficiantly in the OU. I never actually used a Rotom that wasn't H, But I'll give that W a try. Thanks for the idea.

 

[Faladran]

The 36 EVs in HP are mostly filler. Max Special Attack is required to allow Heatran to hit as hard as possible, and 220 Speed EVs are just enough to outpace Jolly Tyranitar. Adding in the extra Speed EVs and changing Heatran's nature isn't really worth it just to tie with opposing Heatran. Half the time, you'll end up losing the speed tie, which will result in your own Heatran getting OHKO'd. Switching to Gyarados would be a much safer option in most cases.