Heracross (OU Attacking lead)

Ferrous

Heracross - Attacking lead

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/heracross
f_HeracrossSpm_5159bfd.png


Heracross (M) @ Focus Sash/Lum Berry
Ability: Guts
EVs: 236 Hp/ 252 Atk/ 20 Def
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Vacuum Wave
- Stone Edge / Shadow Claw
- Megahorn




why it deserves to be on site
  • easily can deal worth many common leads
  • near perfect coverage with Stone Edge and perfect coverage with Shadow Claw
  • Vacuum wave (although special) serves the purpose of KOing opponents that held on with a focus sash
  • still a major powerhouse regardless of UU ranking
  • a relatively bulky set, this allows it to deal with many other leads' attacks, and live to retaliate.
  • Simple and effective play style means its easy to use, and it can still be used late game
  • usually takes out 2 of the opponents pokes by the time he faints.
Some Damage Calc's against the top 15 leads


close combat
252/0 Metagross 46.2% - 54.4%
240/216 Swampert41.4% - 48.9%
0/0 Infernape 94.5% - 111.6%
0/0 Aerodactyl 98.7% - 115.9%
240/0 Machamp 66.1% - 78%
4/0 Jirachi 61.4% - 72.2%
0/0 Heatran 123.2% - 145.5%
252/4 Hippowdon 43.1% - 51%
0/0 Tyranatar 251% - 296.8%


Megahorn
4/0 Starmie 183.2% - 216%
0/0 Azelf 143.8% - 169.9%
252/104 Uxie 79.7% - 93.8%
4/0 Roserade 129.4% - 152.3%


Stone Edge
0/0 Dragonite 75.5% - 89.2%
0/4 Ninjask 328.5% - 387.8%



additional comments
  • shadow claw can be used for better neutral coverage as well as a more accurate fall back option. It also helps deal with things like Rotom-A that are manageable with Stone Edge, but are more effectively dealt with using Shadow Claw. Stone Edge is the recommended choice as it allows Heracross to deal with many switch ins (Primarily flying type such as Zapdos and Dragonite. As well as provide a stronger neutral hit to anything that resists Heracross's stabs (bug, ghost, flying, and poison)
  • lum berry can be used to deal with sleep leads, although you sacrifice the safety of having focus sash, as well as the capability to deal with leads like Heatran.
  • Vacuum Wave serves no purpose other than to pick off sashers. This is why adamant was chosen over something like naughty, as it was best not to sacrifice bulk to give Vacuum Wave a little more of a boost.
  • The EVs were designed to maximize the amount of damage it could deal while preserving its bulk. The defensive EVs were picked using X-Acts defense effort value calculator.
Teammates and counters
  • Heracross should generally be partnered with a water type, like Starmie, as they handle a lot of Heracross's major threats.
  • Extreme physical walls, serve as checks, so something that can dispatch the likes of Skarmory and Hippowdon works well with heracross.
  • The only leads Heracross generally loses to are hippowdon because of slack off, and infernape and metagross should they choose not to set up rocks. And dragonite can give it issues as well. Because of this, it is best to have some way of handeling them within the team.

 
FerDrako said:
Heracross (M) @ Focus Sash/Lum Berry
Ability: Guts
EVs: 236 Hp/ 252 Atk/ 20 Def
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Vacuum Wave
- Stone Edge / Shadow Claw
- Megahorn
Click to expand...

close combat
252/0 Metagross 46.2% - 54.4% kills you with Meteor Mach+Bullet Punch, or SRs-lose
240/216 Swampert 41.4% - 48.9% SRs-but you chip away half its health-tie leaning on lose?
0/0 Infernape 94.5% - 111.6% kills you with Fake Out+Fire Blast-lose
0/0 Aerodactyl 98.7% - 115.9% SRs-tie leaning on lose
240/0 Machamp 66.1% - 78% Win
4/0 Jirachi 61.4% - 72.2% Iron Headed. Plus it can SR. lose
0/0 Heatran 123.2% - 145.5% Outsped and Fire Blasted. lose
252/4 Hippowdon 43.1% - 51% SRs and switches-lose
0/0 Tyranatar 251% - 296.8% Win


Megahorn
4/0 Starmie 183.2% - 216% Hydro Pawmped. still win, though
0/0 Azelf 143.8% - 169.9% SRs-tie leaning on lose
252/104 Uxie 79.7% - 93.8% It still gets up both screens or sr-lose
4/0 Roserade 129.4% - 152.3% Sleep Powder'd


Stone Edge
0/0 Dragonite 75.5% - 89.2% Fire Blast-Espeed-lose with Sash, win with Life Orb
0/4 Ninjask 328.5% - 387.8% Protect-->Sub-->Protect-->Sub, with SDs on the Stone Edge misses. lose

Not so great after all.
 
I was expecting some sort of guts set but anyways:

I agree with darkamber, this set is leaving something to be desired. With no speed investment Heracross really isnt that fast. Nor is it really that bulky.

63.3% - 74.4%
That is 248 adamant Metagross Meteor Mash vs your Heracross. Keep in mind though, if you CC'd, it would be an OHKO minus the sash since you have -1, otherwise you are relying on the not 100% accuracy Megahorn.

Aero is a plain loss: they get SR up and cripple you at -1 with Stone Edge.

You might actually lose against Machamp if you have Focus Sash, since they might DPunch.

Swampert cant beat Heracross really even with all the -1s, though Heracross will be quite weakened.

But yea, Darkamber has everything you need.
 
Before making a lead, please read this: http://smogonite.blogspot.com/2010/08/how-to-make-lead.html

So yeah, does this Pokemon:
1) Set up hazards?? No
2) Prevent others from setting up hazards?? Not particularly, Aerodactyl still SRs on you, Azelf does the same, Infernape actually kills you, doesn't particularly do much to Swampert and Metagross.
3) Force Pokemon to set up hazards or die?? Not really

So yeah, not exactly a good lead.
 
Hey, another lead... what fun...

Okay, so this basically fails every single test as far as leads go.

1: "Anti-Lead" a la Machamp and/or Hariyama- Fail. Vacuum Wave is garbage as far as "lead priority" goes, as it's utterly useless outside of picking off sashed opponents- It's a good thing that Focus Sash leaves them at 1 HP, because if it left them at 3 or 4, you'd probably fail to KO.

2: "Show-stopper"- Fail. Doesn't stop anything from setting up SR at all. At. All.

3: Surviving to deal midgame damage- Questionable at best. Many offensive leads will just brutalize this anyway (Ape, Heatran, Metagross, bad luck with Machamp, Azelf Fire Blast, etc. Not to mention that midgame, while it does deal solid damage, it's balls slow and has questionable resistances. I mean, I could see using Machamp, since it can do decent damage with Bullet Punch, and DynamicPunch hax is golden, and I can see using Hariyama, since it's got Fake Out (which is awesome) and hits like a goddamn truck. Heracross... Vacuum Wave? No real power boosts to note? No SR resistance? No thanks.

QC REJECTED (1/3)
 
Darkamber8828 said:
close combat
252/0 Metagross 46.2% - 54.4% kills you with Meteor Mach+Bullet Punch, or SRs-lose
240/216 Swampert 41.4% - 48.9% SRs-but you chip away half its health-tie leaning on lose?
0/0 Infernape 94.5% - 111.6% kills you with Fake Out+Fire Blast-lose
0/0 Aerodactyl 98.7% - 115.9% SRs-tie leaning on lose
240/0 Machamp 66.1% - 78% Win
4/0 Jirachi 61.4% - 72.2% Iron Headed. Plus it can SR. lose
0/0 Heatran 123.2% - 145.5% Outsped and Fire Blasted. lose
252/4 Hippowdon 43.1% - 51% SRs and switches-lose
0/0 Tyranatar 251% - 296.8% Win


Megahorn
4/0 Starmie 183.2% - 216% Hydro Pawmped. still win, though
0/0 Azelf 143.8% - 169.9% SRs-tie leaning on lose
252/104 Uxie 79.7% - 93.8% It still gets up both screens or sr-lose
4/0 Roserade 129.4% - 152.3% Sleep Powder'd


Stone Edge
0/0 Dragonite 75.5% - 89.2% Fire Blast-Espeed-lose with Sash, win with Life Orb
0/4 Ninjask 328.5% - 387.8% Protect-->Sub-->Protect-->Sub, with SDs on the Stone Edge misses. lose

Not so great after all.
Click to expand...

you seem to misunderstand how the set plays, sorry
metagross: i close combat/megahorn if it metiormashes i lose but a switch in handles it well. if it SRS i win, this is because i still sit at a higher speed, and can therefor hit again.
swampert: Close Combat twice it cant do anything to hera,but it can get rocks up.
Infernape: if it sets up rocks its dead thanks to vacuum wave and close combat
Aerodactyl: Close Combat then vacume wave it it choses rocks i get off scot free, keep my sash and take out another poke.
Jirachi: if i get haxed by a scarfer then i lose but same with everyother lead, if it sets up rocs i can win,
Heatran- if chooses to set up stealth rocks, it OKO's w/ close combat-focus sash saves you from fire blast if it hits
Hippowdon- you generally lose against it
Azelf- mega horn OKO's, if sashed, vaccum wave picks it off before it can do jack diddly
Uxie- uxie can get one screen or rocks in before it dies by 2nd mega horn
Roserade- This is why you have the lum berry option, also sleep powder misses often enough
Ninjask- Shadow claw might be better for this one, and hera can pick off almost anything it throws out with that sash
Dragonite- both pokes usually die due to life orb recoil.


@ shrang
heracross fallows the 3rd characeristic of what a lead should do perfectly
@SDS
yes vacuum wave isnt the greatest but it still serves its perpus flawlessly and actualy deals about 4-6 percent of damage on average, while not alot it again serves its purpose flawlessly.

i hope this has cleered up any confusion thnx
 
Infernape beats you with Fake Out + Fire Blast, and has its Focus Sash in-tact, allowing it to set up Rocks and maybe even attack another of your Pokemon.

Sleep Powder only misses 25% of the time, its not a lot. So this lead only works depending on your item. If you use Sash, you lose to Smeargle and Roserade. If you use Lum, you lose to Azelf, Metagross, etc.

Also, Close Combat doesn't 2HKO Swampert, and I doubt it'd stay in after it SR'd, unless it has something like Waterfall, which would bring you down to your Sash.

You don't win against Metagross. If it sets up SR, then it gets SR and a Bullet Punch, breaking your Sash.

This lead doesn't really work, only managing to beat a few leads.
 
FerDrako said:
you seem to misunderstand how the set plays, sorry
metagross: i close combat/megahorn if it metiormashes i lose but a switch in handles it well. if it SRS i win, this is because i still sit at a higher speed, and can therefor hit again.

the fact that you were forced out and he can still get SR already means a loss
swampert: Close Combat twice it cant do anything to hera,but it can get rocks up.
he gets up SR and still has half his health, ill admit he cant really hurt you significantly. tie leaning towards loss
Infernape: if it sets up rocks its dead thanks to vacuum wave and close combat
fake out + fire blast. dont forget, if this set gets on site(which i doubt it will), people will become aware of this lead and will attack instead of setting up SR
Aerodactyl: Close Combat then vacume wave it it choses rocks i get off scot free, keep my sash and take out another poke.
rock slide doesnt 2ko yes, but you have to pray for no flinch hax. aero is a suicide lead, and if he gets up SR hes done his job
Jirachi: if i get haxed by a scarfer then i lose but same with everyother lead, if it sets up rocs i can win,
pray for no Iron head hax, and with the def drop from CC you are KOed
Heatran- if chooses to set up stealth rocks, it OKO's w/ close combat-focus sash saves you from fire blast if it hits
outsped and fire blasted, you win if you have sash
Hippowdon- you generally lose against it
see swampert
Azelf- mega horn OKO's, if sashed, vaccum wave picks it off before it can do jack diddly
fine
Uxie- uxie can get one screen or rocks in before it dies by 2nd mega horn
fine
Roserade- This is why you have the lum berry option, also sleep powder misses often enough
lose if you have sash, otherwise fine
Ninjask- Shadow claw might be better for this one, and hera can pick off almost anything it throws out with that sash
anything beats ninjask, although you might actually lose if fail edge strikes
Dragonite- both pokes usually die due to life orb recoil.
meteor/fire blast + espeed = dead heraboss. you fail to OHKO with stone edge and vwave does shit
Click to expand...

I really dont see this lead working at all.
 
Seven Deadly Sins said:
Hey, another lead... what fun...

Okay, so this basically fails every single test as far as leads go.

1: "Anti-Lead" a la Machamp and/or Hariyama- Fail. Vacuum Wave is garbage as far as "lead priority" goes, as it's utterly useless outside of picking off sashed opponents- It's a good thing that Focus Sash leaves them at 1 HP, because if it left them at 3 or 4, you'd probably fail to KO.

2: "Show-stopper"- Fail. Doesn't stop anything from setting up SR at all. At. All.

3: Surviving to deal midgame damage- Questionable at best. Many offensive leads will just brutalize this anyway (Ape, Heatran, Metagross, bad luck with Machamp, Azelf Fire Blast, etc. Not to mention that midgame, while it does deal solid damage, it's balls slow and has questionable resistances. I mean, I could see using Machamp, since it can do decent damage with Bullet Punch, and DynamicPunch hax is golden, and I can see using Hariyama, since it's got Fake Out (which is awesome) and hits like a goddamn truck. Heracross... Vacuum Wave? No real power boosts to note? No SR resistance? No thanks.

QC REJECTED (1/3)
Click to expand...

this pretty much says it all. I actually considered this lead in the past but Heracross is inferior to the similar Machamp and Hariyama leads. Sorry.

QC REJECTED (2/3)
 
This set isn't going to really work at all even when it's a lead. The reason Machamp, Gallade, and Hairyama is that they all have certian things that make them threatening. Machamp has No Guard, which makes Dunamicpunch godly and allows it to use Stone Edge without the worry of missing, good bulk which allows him to take hits from the other lead if they decide to attack, or to come in midgame and deal a good amount of damage while surviving, and a priority move thats usable. Gallade has 80 Base Speed, which means that a good amount of leads are outsped, the most important being Heatran, and it also lets him outspeed lots more stuff midgame too, A wider movepool to abuse, letting you chose a last move to beat different leads if they really bother you, has good enough special bulk to take a bit of a beating ( not alot though), has Zen Headbutt, which is a great move, OHKOing Lead Machamp with Life Orb, KOing Tentacruel and Breloom, and offers great coverage to Close Combat. Gallade is also blessed with having Shadow Sneak, which means Azelf is either attacking or setting Stealth Rock before dying to a second one, hits Starmie and Gengar for quite a bit before they kill you, and takes care of weakened leads and revenging boosted Pokemon. Hariyama has Fake Out, allowing him to break Focus Sash, safely activate whatever Orb he's holding, stoping him from getting statused by Roserade, gives him a power boost, and has better bulk then both Gallade and Machamp, meaning he can use Speed EVs unlike Machamp to outspeed a few things.


Now why can't Heracorss be a good Attacking Lead? He has the power, usable bulk, outspeeds all the other Fighting Attacking Leads, and great STAB. The things dragging him down are that he needs to use a Focus Sash to kill some leads, which means he's usless outside the lead position, the EVs your using makes Heracross get outsped by alot of stuff in and out of the lead position, thus lowering his midgame potential even more. The third reason is that Vacume Wave is fucking horrible priority on Heracorss. All the toher Fighting Leads priority is tons more usful, letting them revenge things that don't have Focus Sashes. The last one is that his typing lets him down. Gallade can switch in on special moves and weak physical moves, Machamp switches in on lost of not so strong moves, and Hairyama is the same as Machamp.


Yeah Heracorss isn't working well in the lead position at all.
 
I think this lead could do a bit better with a different set, maybe with an occa berry. With occa, you beat infernape, heatran, azelf, machamp, and sometimes metagross. Sure they can get up stealth rock, but they will faint without hurting you if they do so (same as machamp really)
Azelf: you MH will they SR or attack, and you will KO with v-wave.
Machamp: you win bar confusion.
Metagross: decent chance at 2HKOing. if they attack, they don't get rocks.
Aerodactyl: this is the same outcome as if using machamp.
heatran: lose to LO variants, but not shuca variants (I'm guessing here) Jolly nature loses to metagross but beats heatran.
Infernape: take the fake out. they either try to damage you and fall to CC + VW or set up rocks and fail to damage you besides the fake out.

It basically falls under the "force other poke to set up or die". It has some speed so it isn't just a "speed bump" like machamp is after it takes a hit and has some surprise factor. Then again, it's not my set this is just an idea.
 
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