What aren't we writing about? (Pokemon unfit for OU Analyses)

[Seven Deadly Sins]

My plan was Super Fang / Roost / Taunt / Brave Bird, as it's basically Crobat but slower and bulkier. It's fast enough to Taunt most everything that matters, and its Brave Bird does just as much damage as Skarmory's, for what it's worth. Still, I need to test it instead of just theory-ing it. Looks pretty neat, though.

 

[jrp]

I know that people are shutting lickilicky down, but even though it can't use wish with cloud nine, it gets SE coverage on almost all weather abusing pokemon. So just invest everything in its defenses with a -speed nature.
It gets focus blast for tyranitar and dory
Ice beam for landlos and gliscor
Fire blast (it's somewhat redundent with focus blast, but it hits dory with better accuracy)
Surf for all the sand abusers minus cacturne plus charizard, ninetales, and any other fire abusers
Body slam for paralisis
Thunderbolt for the water abusers
And power whip as well.

Obviously, lickilicky cannot run all of those moves, but focus blast/power whip/body slam/ice beam hits pretty much (minus kingdra) all weather abusers, and kingdra can't do much to it besides dragon dancing since the rain is canceled out, and kingdra hates body slam.

So I mean, it's hard to use, but it's far from useless.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Actually, I just checked, and while it doesn't get Wish with Cloud Nine, it DOES get Sleep Talk, which lets it pull off the whole Rest thing ok. The big issue is that if it ever gets forced out at not full HP while it's asleep, it might have issues surviving 2 turns to get back up to spec. Still, a Rest / Sleep Talk / Body Slam / "coverage move" (maybe Fire Blast or Ice Beam or something) set with full Special Defense can do okay. I'll think about it.

If it's so difficult to use, it doesn't belong on OU.

sotp

Really, comments like this aren't constructive, and just clutter up the thread. As a result, this thread would go a lot smoother if you would hold off on comments like these.

 

[jrp]

Actually, I just checked, and while it doesn't get Wish with Cloud Nine, it DOES get Sleep Talk, which lets it pull off the whole Rest thing ok. The big issue is that if it ever gets forced out at not full HP while it's asleep, it might have issues surviving 2 turns to get back up to spec. Still, a Rest / Sleep Talk / Body Slam / "coverage move" (maybe Fire Blast or Ice Beam or something) set with full Special Defense can do okay. I'll think about it.



sotp

Really, comments like this aren't constructive, and just clutter up the thread. As a result, this thread would go a lot smoother if you would hold off on comments like these.

If you're willing to rethink it, that would be great, then, I think Lickilicky has a ton of potential in the current metagame

 

[Chillarmy]

Actually, I just checked, and while it doesn't get Wish with Cloud Nine, it DOES get Sleep Talk, which lets it pull off the whole Rest thing ok. The big issue is that if it ever gets forced out at not full HP while it's asleep, it might have issues surviving 2 turns to get back up to spec. Still, a Rest / Sleep Talk / Body Slam / "coverage move" (maybe Fire Blast or Ice Beam or something) set with full Special Defense can do okay. I'll think about it.

I don't see the advantages of using RestTalk Lickilicky over Snorlax or Nattorei. Cloud Nine is great and all, but once you take into consideration that Lickilicky is really limited in coverage (Normal + "coverage" is pretty bad), and 85/80 offenses aren't that great, it just not worth the slot. Plus, relying on a 30% chance of beating a weather sweeper is way less reliable than just KOing it.

 

[jrp]

Lickilicky is much bulkier then golduck, who gets cloud nine.
None of those are even comparable to lickilicky, the point is to cancel weather out.

One thing I was thinking of, how would evo stone lickitung do with cloud nine? It could run a bulky curse set since it would have higher defenses then lickilicky, or just run a stalling set with toxic...

Anyway, back to lickilicky, if you're willing to take it off the list, I'd be happy to write a cloud nine (or two) set.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

hold your horses there bucko, i said "I'll think about it." and that means exactly what it says, I still don't like the idea of Lickilicky due to its shitty uninvested offenses and issue with only having 2 coverage slots

 

[SJCrew]

I'm challenging Huntail's position on the list. He's very similar to Gorebyss all around, really, with a few key differences in offense and movepool, like mixed potential, for example. One can argue that Gorebyss functions much more effectively with just a Special Attacking set, but Huntail has access to a couple of options Gorebyss doesn't, namely Super Fang.

He can function as an effective wall-killer with a bulky Super Fang set that shaves a free 50% off of Nattorei for free and another 25% once Nattorei breaks the sub or he survives Power Whip. After the fact, another sweeper like the aforementioned Gorebyss can clean up and go to town on the rest of the team. I've used it before and it's horrendously effective. I know you might not want to believe he's good, but if nothing else, shaving a free 50% off of balanced offense's only hope at beating Rain is pretty tempting.

 

[Husky]

Just a little question: Why is Weezing counted as 'uncompetitive'? I mean it has only one weakness which is even very rare, two immunities which help alongside with its great physical bulk and wide movepool which it can make good use of in 5th gen metagame. Thunderbolt, Flamethrower deal with many potent walls, Pain Split and RestTalk are vital options for recovery, not to mention its capability to stop all that common fighting types now easily.

Setsuna Edit: this question goes in this thread.

 

[jrp]

Also, lickilicky gets access to rain dance/sunny day, it can use them to cancel out the weather permanently after the set up pokemon is ko'd
(ko the tyranitar for example) send lickilIcky in in an abuser, rain dance/sunny day (sunny day is prefered since sun teams are less common) and take the opponent out with the rest of your team.


Also, ambipom gets switcharoo doesn't it? A switchscarf set can cripple a ton of this, namely dory for one thing (I assume ambi would outspeed), roobushin, blissey/chansey (in chansey's case, it's rendered useless).

It can also screw up all the dragon dancers, like gyarados, ect, as well as screwing up porygon2 running evo stone.

 

[Chillarmy]

Just a little question: Why is Weezing counted as 'uncompetitive'? I mean it has only one weakness which is even very rare, two immunities which help alongside with its great physical bulk and wide movepool which it can make good use of in 5th gen metagame. Thunderbolt, Flamethrower deal with many potent walls, Pain Split and RestTalk are vital options for recovery, not to mention its capability to stop all that common fighting types now easily.

Setsuna Edit: this question goes in this thread.

This post pretty much sums up why Weezing isn't that great of a check to the obligatory physical sweeper this gen. Roobushin beats Weezing no matter what it runs, Terakion does 88% - 103.6% with a +2 Stone Edge, Kojondo commonly runs Taunt, Blaziken easily sets up on Weezing... you get it, Weezing can't really do much to the Fighting-types this gen. Checking Dory and SD Lucario is great and all, but then at that point, why not just use Gliscor, who can do much more outside of that purpose?

One thing I was thinking of, how would evo stone lickitung do with cloud nine? It could run a bulky curse set since it would have higher defenses then lickilicky, or just run a stalling set with toxic...

It can take a few hits, granted, but how would it go about being an anti-weather pokemon? Sunny Day and Rain Dance will only get it so far, especially considering that it Lickitung can't do much to any of the common weather inducers. Then you take the lack of recovery and usable offenses into account...

Also, lickilicky gets access to rain dance/sunny day, it can use them to cancel out the weather permanently after the set up pokemon is ko'd
(ko the tyranitar for example) send lickilIcky in in an abuser, rain dance/sunny day (sunny day is prefered since sun teams are less common) and take the opponent out with the rest of your team.

With 30%~ and base 50 speed? Fuck, Blissey can revenge it at that point

 

[Zephyr]

He can function as an effective wall-killer with a bulky Super Fang set that shaves a free 50% off of Nattorei for free and another 25% once Nattorei breaks the sub or he survives Power Whip.

I support this^

It's really effective at bringing down Nattorei for the rest of a rain team, not to mention it can still function as a rain sweeper in its self.


I also agree with the Lickitung Evo-stone suggestion, with the Evo-stone combined with Cloud nine in a weather rampant metagame, it's not very fair to say it's not worth an analysis if someone if willing to contribute it to smogon, particularly compared to some of the pokemon that are allowed to be.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

I'm challenging Huntail's position on the list. He's very similar to Gorebyss all around, really, with a few key differences in offense and movepool, like mixed potential, for example. One can argue that Gorebyss functions much more effectively with just a Special Attacking set, but Huntail has access to a couple of options Gorebyss doesn't, namely Super Fang.

He can function as an effective wall-killer with a bulky Super Fang set that shaves a free 50% off of Nattorei for free and another 25% once Nattorei breaks the sub or he survives Power Whip. After the fact, another sweeper like the aforementioned Gorebyss can clean up and go to town on the rest of the team. I've used it before and it's horrendously effective. I know you might not want to believe he's good, but if nothing else, shaving a free 50% off of balanced offense's only hope at beating Rain is pretty tempting.

Or you could, you know... just use something retarded like Life Orb Modest Gorebyss with Hydro Pump, which does 70% minimum in 2 hits with the rain boost, and that's to MAX HP / MAX SDEF CAREFUL Nattorei. Brave or Impish sets not running Special Defense are straight up 2HKOed by Rain Hydro Pump with a layer of Spikes and have a good chance of KO with Stealth Rock as well. It also has the extra added bonus of basically absolutely obliterating anything that doesn't resist it, while Super Fang is just vaguely annoying.

If you really want to beat Nattorei on a rain team, just hit it in the face with boosted Surfs and Hydro Pumps all day long. Don't fiddle around with silliness like Super Fang when you could just be KILLING EVERYTHING.

 

[Zephyr]

Or you could, you know... just use something retarded like Life Orb Modest Gorebyss with Hydro Pump, which does 70% minimum in 2 hits with the rain boost, and that's to MAX HP / MAX SDEF CAREFUL Nattorei. Brave or Impish sets not running Special Defense are straight up 2HKOed by Rain Hydro Pump with a layer of Spikes and have a good chance of KO with Stealth Rock as well. It also has the extra added bonus of basically absolutely obliterating anything that doesn't resist it, while Super Fang is just vaguely annoying.

If you really want to beat Nattorei on a rain team, just hit it in the face with boosted Surfs and Hydro Pumps all day long. Don't fiddle around with silliness like Super Fang when you could just be KILLING EVERYTHING.

lol, I seen part of what you said in this post in someone else's signature earlier.

 

[SJCrew]

Or you could, you know... just use something retarded like Life Orb Modest Gorebyss with Hydro Pump, which does 70% minimum in 2 hits with the rain boost, and that's to MAX HP / MAX SDEF CAREFUL Nattorei. Brave or Impish sets not running Special Defense are straight up 2HKOed by Rain Hydro Pump with a layer of Spikes and have a good chance of KO with Stealth Rock as well. It also has the extra added bonus of basically absolutely obliterating anything that doesn't resist it, while Super Fang is just vaguely annoying.

If you really want to beat Nattorei on a rain team, just hit it in the face with boosted Surfs and Hydro Pumps all day long. Don't fiddle around with silliness like Super Fang when you could just be KILLING EVERYTHING.

It's not that easy because theoretically, you should be winning 100% off your matches this way, save for other Rain teams. In reality, you're probably dealing with smart player who predicts your Surfs and switches to a Water Absorb Pokemon.

You'd have to sacrifice Gorebyss to get those two hits in, which might not happen because of Hydro Pump's 80% accuracy. Why sacrifice Gorebyss for the rest of the team when you could Shell Smash and win the game?

The benefit to Super Fang is that it's an indiscriminate 50% off of anything, regardless of what switches in (save for Ghosts, but Huntail learns Crunch). Coming from a both offensively and defensively potent Pokemon, it could be a really huge problem and pave way for a Gorebyss sweep.

Players are starting to adapt to "blindly attack everything" and take advantage of it by predicting well and turning tables on the momentum. Sub/Super Fang Huntail is much more versatile and pressures your opponent into choosing what he wants to weaken or lose, knowing that he has other Swift Swim sweepers to deal with afterward. You can't Toxic, you can't Twave, and he never goes down doing less than 50% to anything (even in situations where it'd be smarter to, you know, attack).

On his own, Huntail is basically a physical Gorebyss, which isn't bad at all, but he becomes much better when you use him as sweeper support so that the real monsters can get in and do some damage. Don't forget he has Shell Break too, and the only thing I can really see stopping that cold in its tracks is Nattorei.

 

[DFrog]

Unless someone has already said this GLIGAR is a must for the NFE analyses, full investment and positive nature in defense gives gligar a whopping 508 def stat coupled with instant recovery make a wall that can is pretty much a counter to garchomp, doryuzu, etc.

 

[AasTmO]

Unless someone has already said this GLIGAR is a must for the NFE analyses, full investment and positive nature in defense gives gligar a whopping 508 def stat coupled with instant recovery make a wall that can is pretty much a counter to garchomp, doryuzu, etc.

And what exactly can it do back to Garchomp? Tickle it? Oh right, it doesn't even learn tickle..
But seriously. Base 75 attack with no investment isn't gonna scare Chomp too much... Also, if you face BulkChomp, who is quite common nowadays, it does exactly NOTHING. You face a sub, which you cannot break with an earthquake, and you are going to get Dragon Tailed out. or what's worth Garchomp continues to set up, and you are then to deal with a +6 Garchomp, behind a Sub. Good luck with that, my friend :)

Also, Huntail, when behind a sub does look scary. Super Fang combined with high speed combined with a physical attack.. It isn't something I want to combat.. Admittedly, you need the opportunity to bring it in, but a slow U-turner (Golbat?) will do the trick easily..

 

[jrp]

Something that was bothering me, it's probably been asked before, but why is ditto on this list? It's the best revenge killer with eccentric, so it should at least get an analysis as a setup killer, being able to revenge anything, so long as it doesn't use calm mind/bulk up, be it dory, salamence, ono, gyarados (if it has stone edge), and some others.
Another thing is scyther. While it DOES have a horrendous stealth rock weakness, if you block sr or have a spinner, it can be amazing with the evolution stone.
Magneton is another, while it has less sp. Attack than magnezone, it is faster, and it can take advantage of the stone as well.

 

[Nexus]

Something that was bothering me, it's probably been asked before, but why is ditto on this list? It's the best revenge killer with eccentric, so it should at least get an analysis as a setup killer, being able to revenge anything, so long as it doesn't use calm mind/bulk up, be it dory, salamence, ono, gyarados (if it has stone edge), and some others.

Again, Ditto's ability has not been released via Dream World or event. Analyses being written are for those pokemon who have viability in the 5th gen metagame without their DW ability or that have had them released. Ditto without Eccentric is just not that great, but once it does get it, Ditto will most likely get an analysis. I won't address the other two, as I have not used them enough to draw a conclusion on either.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

HEY GUESS WHAT

Qwilfish is no longer on The List. Yeah, I said it. I slapped it on a Rain team that I was trying out, and it's pretty bitchin. Spikes AND Destiny Bond make it a damn neat supporter, and it hits pretty hard with 95 Base Attack. It's a shame that it can't have both Swift Swim AND Intimidate, but... it's still neat.

 

[Zephyr]

HEY GUESS WHAT

Qwilfish is no longer on The List. Yeah, I said it. I slapped it on a Rain team that I was trying out, and it's pretty bitchin. Spikes AND Destiny Bond make it a damn neat supporter, and it hits pretty hard with 95 Base Attack. It's a shame that it can't have both Swift Swim AND Intimidate, but... it's still neat.

I know that I didn't make an argument for getting it off the list, but seeing as I wrote the analysis on him, I agree with you and am thankful :)

 

[Noble Cactus]

One thing I was thinking of, how would evo stone lickitung do with cloud nine? It could run a bulky curse set since it would have higher defenses then lickilicky, or just run a stalling set with toxic...

Licking does get nice defenses with the Evo Stone, but with 55 base Atk and 60 base SpAtk, what's it going to do to weather abusers? The only thing I can think of is switch the weather like you said with Sandstorm/Sunny Day/etc., but that only lasts for a few turns anyway.

'Tis a shame Lickilicky doesn't get Wish with C9, a crying shame...

 

[AasTmO]

but uhm.. You checked Golbat too? (A) If you find it unfit for an analysis yet, okay, but give me some itnel on how the testing is going or such ;)

 

[The3DOstrich]

Couldn't Pelipper deserve an OU analysis? It still has pretty decent bulk, which is easily boosted by Stockpile, and maintains Roost during the generation shift, and the fact that Stealth Rock is less wide spread adds to it's viability. Also, Dream World Wingull with the ability Rain Dish (which is MUCH better than Keen Eye) have been releasesd. With Drizzle Politoed beingis legal in standard play, Pelipper becomes an enoumous nuisance to KO after a Stockpile or two, as it can then Toxic and easily Roost off damage, as well as take additional recovery from Rain Dish and Leftovers. It also gained Boiling Water, which allows it to cripple the many new physical threats in gen 5. It also resists Fighting attacks, and with all the new Fighting-types running around, it can make an effective switch to their STAB attacks. It may not be super threatening on it's own, but with the right support (especially Rain), it can really hold it's own in the standard metagame.

 

[Scorpio]

Not that I'm expecting anything from this, but I say Nidoqueen deserves an OU analysis. She too got Sheer Force as a Dream World ability, and with basically the same movepool as Nidoking, can also perform as a LO sweeper. Her attacking stats may be lower than Nidoking's but she is bulkier, and the difference is pretty moot due to the sheer force (no pun intended) of the damage being dished out.