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Dragonite (Analysis)

I just had an amazing run with swiftnite, and as someone you were asking for some examples of it's usefulness, here's a log:

Battle between JT Swift and Deuce started!

Tier: Standard OU
Variation: +10, -21
Rule: Rated
Rule: Sleep Clause
Rule: Freeze Clause
Rule: Species Clause
Rule: Wifi Battle

Deuce sent out Pinpoint! (Azelf)
JT Swift sent out Quesadilla! (Dragonite)

Start of turn 1
The foe's Pinpoint used Taunt!
Quesadilla fell for the taunt!

Quesadilla can't use Thunder Wave after the taunt!

Start of turn 2
The foe's Pinpoint used Reflect!
Reflect raised Deuce's team defense!

Quesadilla used Dragon Tail!
The attack of Quesadilla missed!

Start of turn 3
The foe's Pinpoint used U-turn!
It's not very effective...
Quesadilla lost 17 HP! (4% of its health)
Deuce called Pinpoint back!
Deuce sent out Ramen! (Vaporeon)

Quesadilla used Dragon Tail!
A critical hit!
The foe's Ramen lost 38% of its health!
The foe's DarkMatter was dragged out!
The foe's DarkMatter intimidates Quesadilla!
Quesadilla's Attack fell!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Quesadilla's taunt ended!

Start of turn 4
The foe's DarkMatter used Draco Meteor!
It's super effective!
Quesadilla lost 162 HP! (42% of its health)
The foe's DarkMatter's Sp. Att. sharply fell!
The foe's DarkMatter is hurt by its Life Orb!

Quesadilla used Thunder Wave!
The foe's DarkMatter is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Deuce: goddamn that's bulk

Start of turn 5
Deuce called DarkMatter back!
Deuce sent out Ramen! (Vaporeon)

Quesadilla used Roost!
Quesadilla landed on the ground!
Quesadilla regained health!

The foe's Ramen restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 6
Quesadilla used Substitute!
Quesadilla made a substitute!

The foe's Ramen used Ice Beam!
It's super effective!
Quesadilla's substitute faded!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Ramen restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 7
Quesadilla used Roost!
Quesadilla landed on the ground!
Quesadilla regained health!

The foe's Ramen used Ice Beam!
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
Quesadilla lost 114 HP! (29% of its health)

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Ramen restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 8
Quesadilla used Roost!
Quesadilla landed on the ground!
Quesadilla regained health!

The foe's Ramen used Ice Beam!
It's super effective!
Quesadilla lost 58 HP! (15% of its health)

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Ramen restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 9
Deuce called Ramen back!
Deuce sent out Tazer! (Shibirudon)

Quesadilla used Thunder Wave!
The foe's Tazer is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

Deuce's reflect wore off!
Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 10
Quesadilla used Substitute!
Quesadilla made a substitute!

The foe's Tazer is paralyzed! It can't move!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 11
The foe's Tazer used Acid Bomb!
Quesadilla's substitute took the damage!
The foe's Tazer is hurt by its Life Orb!

Quesadilla used Dragon Tail!
The foe's Tazer lost 20% of its health!
The foe's DarkMatter was dragged out!
Quesadilla's substitute suppressed the foe's DarkMatter's Intimidate!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 12
Deuce called DarkMatter back!
Deuce sent out Pinpoint! (Azelf)

Quesadilla used Dragon Tail!
The foe's Pinpoint lost 22% of its health!
The foe's Tazer was dragged out!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 13
The foe's Tazer is paralyzed! It can't move!

Quesadilla used Dragon Tail!
The foe's Tazer lost 19% of its health!
The foe's Arrowhead was dragged out!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 14
The foe's Arrowhead used Stone Edge!
It's super effective!
Quesadilla's substitute faded!

Quesadilla used Thunder Wave!
The foe's Arrowhead is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 15
Quesadilla used Substitute!
Quesadilla made a substitute!

The foe's Arrowhead used Stone Edge!
The attack of the foe's Arrowhead missed!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 16
The foe's Arrowhead used Stone Edge!
It's super effective!
Quesadilla's substitute faded!

Quesadilla used Dragon Tail!
The foe's Arrowhead lost 19% of its health!
The foe's Ramen was dragged out!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Ramen restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 17
Quesadilla used Substitute!
Quesadilla made a substitute!

The foe's Ramen used Ice Beam!
It's super effective!
Quesadilla's substitute faded!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Ramen restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 18
Quesadilla used Roost!
Quesadilla landed on the ground!
Quesadilla regained health!

The foe's Ramen used Boil Over!
It's not very effective...
Quesadilla lost 18 HP! (4% of its health)

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Ramen restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 19
Quesadilla used Thunder Wave!
The foe's Ramen is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

The foe's Ramen is paralyzed! It can't move!

Start of turn 20
Quesadilla used Substitute!
Quesadilla made a substitute!

The foe's Ramen is paralyzed! It can't move!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 21
The foe's Ramen used Ice Beam!
It's super effective!
Quesadilla's substitute faded!

Quesadilla used Dragon Tail!
The foe's Ramen lost 13% of its health!
The foe's Arrowhead was dragged out!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 22
Quesadilla used Substitute!
Quesadilla made a substitute!

The foe's Arrowhead used Stone Edge!
It's super effective!
Quesadilla's substitute faded!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 23
Quesadilla used Substitute!
Quesadilla made a substitute!

The foe's Arrowhead used Stone Edge!
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
Quesadilla's substitute faded!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 24
Quesadilla used Roost!
Quesadilla landed on the ground!
Quesadilla regained health!

The foe's Arrowhead used Stone Edge!
Quesadilla lost 97 HP! (25% of its health)

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Deuce: i've never seen anything like this

Start of turn 25
Quesadilla used Roost!
Quesadilla landed on the ground!
Quesadilla regained health!
JT Swift: heh

The foe's Arrowhead used Stone Edge!
A critical hit!
Quesadilla lost 186 HP! (48% of its health)

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
JT Swift: awesome, huh?
Deuce: htf is it so bulky?
JT Swift: it's called "swiftnite"
JT Swift: my own set
Deuce: bro, 2 thumbs up
Deuce: cause its a mofo right now
JT Swift: thanx

Start of turn 26
Deuce called Arrowhead back!
Deuce sent out Check! (Bronzong)

Quesadilla used Roost!
Quesadilla landed on the ground!
Quesadilla regained health!

Start of turn 27
Quesadilla used Substitute!
Quesadilla made a substitute!

The foe's Check used Toxic!
The attack of the foe's Check missed!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 28
Quesadilla used Thunder Wave!
The foe's Check is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

The foe's Check used Gyro Ball!
A critical hit!
Quesadilla's substitute faded!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 29
Quesadilla used Substitute!
Quesadilla made a substitute!

The foe's Check is paralyzed! It can't move!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 30
Deuce called Check back!
Deuce sent out DarkMatter! (Salamence)

Quesadilla's substitute suppressed the foe's DarkMatter's Intimidate!
Quesadilla used Dragon Tail!
The attack of Quesadilla missed!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 31
The foe's DarkMatter is paralyzed! It can't move!

Quesadilla used Dragon Tail!
It's super effective!
The foe's DarkMatter lost 35% of its health!
The foe's Check was dragged out!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 32
The foe's Check used Gyro Ball!
Quesadilla's substitute faded!

Quesadilla used Dragon Tail!
The attack of Quesadilla missed!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 33
The foe's Check is paralyzed! It can't move!

Quesadilla used Dragon Tail!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Check lost 7% of its health!
The foe's Pinpoint was dragged out!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Deuce: where's the rocks and spikes?
JT Swift: hmm?
JT Swift: oh
JT Swift: dunno

Start of turn 34
The foe's Pinpoint used Reflect!
Reflect raised Deuce's team defense!

Quesadilla used Dragon Tail!
The foe's Pinpoint lost 11% of its health!
The foe's Ramen was dragged out!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Ramen restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Deuce: that'd be some long, grueling punishment
Deuce: maybe sandstorm
JT Swift: heh
Deuce: i dunno
Deuce: toxic

Start of turn 35
Quesadilla used Substitute!
Quesadilla made a substitute!

The foe's Ramen used Ice Beam!
It's super effective!
Quesadilla's substitute faded!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Ramen restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
JT Swift: sandstorm would wear dnite down too though
Deuce: roost=ownage
JT Swift: lefties are important
Deuce: i got walled by a dnite, lol

Start of turn 36
Quesadilla used Substitute!
Quesadilla made a substitute!

The foe's Ramen used Ice Beam!
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
Quesadilla's substitute faded!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Ramen restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 37
Quesadilla used Substitute!
Quesadilla made a substitute!

The foe's Ramen used Boil Over!
It's not very effective...
Quesadilla's substitute took the damage!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 38
The foe's Ramen used Ice Beam!
It's super effective!
Quesadilla's substitute faded!

Quesadilla used Dragon Tail!
A critical hit!
The foe's Ramen lost 39% of its health!
The foe's Arrowhead was dragged out!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 39
Quesadilla used Roost!
Quesadilla landed on the ground!
Quesadilla regained health!

The foe's Arrowhead is paralyzed! It can't move!

Start of turn 40
Quesadilla used Substitute!
Quesadilla made a substitute!

The foe's Arrowhead used Stone Edge!
It's super effective!
Quesadilla's substitute faded!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 41
Deuce called Arrowhead back!
Deuce sent out DarkMatter! (Salamence)

The foe's DarkMatter intimidates Quesadilla!
Quesadilla's Attack fell!
Quesadilla used Substitute!
Quesadilla made a substitute!

Deuce's reflect wore off!
Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 42
The foe's DarkMatter used Outrage!
It's super effective!
Quesadilla's substitute faded!
The foe's DarkMatter is hurt by its Life Orb!

Quesadilla used Dragon Tail!
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
The foe's DarkMatter lost 45% of its health!
The foe's DarkMatter fainted!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Deuce sent out Tazer! (Shibirudon)

JT Swift: oh goody
JT Swift: one down
Deuce: dude
Deuce: i wanna see this

Start of turn 43
Quesadilla used Substitute!
Quesadilla made a substitute!

The foe's Tazer used Acid Bomb!
Quesadilla's substitute took the damage!
The foe's Tazer is hurt by its Life Orb!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
JT Swift: see what?

Start of turn 44
The foe's Tazer used Thunderbolt!
Quesadilla's substitute faded!
The foe's Tazer is hurt by its Life Orb!

Quesadilla used Dragon Tail!
The attack of Quesadilla missed!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Deuce: how fucked up this thing is, lol. at least down to 2

Start of turn 45
Quesadilla used Roost!
Quesadilla landed on the ground!
Quesadilla regained health!

The foe's Tazer used Acid Bomb!
JT Swift: oh
Quesadilla lost 22 HP! (5% of its health)
Quesadilla's Sp. Def. sharply fell!
The foe's Tazer is hurt by its Life Orb!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 46
Quesadilla used Substitute!
Quesadilla made a substitute!

The foe's Tazer used Thunderbolt!
Quesadilla's substitute faded!
The foe's Tazer is hurt by its Life Orb!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 47
Quesadilla used Roost!
Quesadilla landed on the ground!
Quesadilla regained health!

The foe's Tazer used Thunderbolt!
It's not very effective...
Quesadilla lost 70 HP! (18% of its health)
The foe's Tazer is hurt by its Life Orb!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 48
Quesadilla used Roost!
Quesadilla landed on the ground!
Quesadilla regained health!

The foe's Tazer used Thunderbolt!
It's not very effective...
Quesadilla lost 78 HP! (20% of its health)
The foe's Tazer is hurt by its Life Orb!
The foe's Tazer fainted!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Deuce sent out Pinpoint! (Azelf)

Start of turn 49
The foe's Pinpoint used Taunt!
Quesadilla fell for the taunt!

Quesadilla can't use Thunder Wave after the taunt!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 50
The foe's Pinpoint used Reflect!
Reflect raised Deuce's team defense!

Quesadilla used Dragon Tail!
The foe's Pinpoint lost 8% of its health!
The foe's Ramen was dragged out!

Quesadilla restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Ramen restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
JT Swift: go away, little elf

Start of turn 51
JT Swift called Quesadilla back!
JT Swift sent out Hells Garden! (Nattorei)

The foe's Ramen used Ice Beam!
Hells Garden lost 59 HP! (16% of its health)

Hells Garden restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Ramen restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 52
Hells Garden used Stealth Rock!
Pointed stones float in the air around Deuce's team!

The foe's Ramen used Wish!

Hells Garden restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Ramen restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 53
JT Swift called Hells Garden back!
JT Swift sent out Blur! (Latios)

Deuce called Ramen back!
Deuce sent out Arrowhead! (Terakion)
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Arrowhead!

Ramen's wish came true!

Start of turn 54
Blur used Draco Meteor!
The foe's Arrowhead lost 82% of its health!
Blur's Sp. Att. sharply fell!

The foe's Arrowhead used X-Scissor!
It's super effective!
Blur lost 232 HP! (77% of its health)

JT Swift: hey

Start of turn 55
Blur used Draco Meteor!
The foe's Arrowhead lost 17% of its health!
Blur's Sp. Att. sharply fell!
The foe's Arrowhead fainted!

Deuce: yo
JT Swift: you almost had me there
Deuce: i know
Deuce: its a very downhill battle though
Deuce sent out Ramen! (Vaporeon)
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Ramen!

JT Swift: lol
JT Swift: oh
JT Swift: shit
JT Swift: I forgot to put roost on latios
JT Swift: gotta do that fater this
JT Swift: after

Start of turn 56
JT Swift called Blur back!
JT Swift sent out Hells Garden! (Nattorei)

The foe's Ramen used Ice Beam!
Deuce: dont you hate when that happens?
Hells Garden lost 56 HP! (15% of its health)

Hells Garden restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Ramen restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
JT Swift: yeah

Start of turn 57
Deuce called Ramen back!
Deuce sent out Pinpoint! (Azelf)
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Pinpoint!

Hells Garden used Power Whip!
The foe's Pinpoint lost 26% of its health!

Deuce's reflect wore off!
Hells Garden restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 58
The foe's Pinpoint used Taunt!
Hells Garden fell for the taunt!

Hells Garden used Power Whip!
The foe's Pinpoint lost 18% of its health!
The foe's Pinpoint fainted!

Hells Garden restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Deuce sent out Check! (Bronzong)
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Check!

Deuce: tap out, gg. love to see the set

I stalled him out for +50 turns, paralyzed everything and walled his entire team. Poor deuce, hehe. I switched out because I had run out of PP for sub and dragon tail.
 
To report, the Parashuffle set is quite efficient. The only problem obviously is the lack of any other attack options when attacking is called for. I gave it several more points in Speed (enough to outrun Tyranitar, no reason really). Slash Substitute with another move and you might have another set to add in or mention in OC.
 
Ok, that parashuffle seems a biatch man.... well, I'm almost gathering enought will to edit the op, so maybe 1 more day and I'll do it!
 
Counter wise, cloyster handles d-nite even before a shell smash, icicle spear OHKO's because of the multi hit factor. D-nite can only win with a draco meteor/thunderbolt. I think it can take a +1 dragon claw/outrage too. D-nite cannot do anything after cloyster gets one. I say cloyster because it has one of the only moves that reliably OHKO's D-nite factoring in multi-scale.
 
So, basically what needs to be done is:


Reduce the main sets. What am I going to keep:

  • Mixed Attacker (Will mention it's usage as a powerful attacking lead)
  • Offensive and Defensive DD (or only the offensive)
  • CB
  • Parashuffle (SwiftNite, maybe the next CroCune but better?)
  • Rain Attacker (Will mix the special and mixed sets someho I believe)
Mentions in OC:

  • Support (Since the Chansey buff, the fact that eveelutions can use it and you can't run Multi-Scale with Heal Bell so DNite kinda sucks on this area now)
  • Other Choice Sets
Changes to be done on the sets:

  • Add ESpeed on the offensive DD (I'm convinced about it's usefulness)
  • Scrap EQ on the CB set and on offensive DD (it's coverage has been lowered with the lesser usage of Heatran and the rise of Doryuuzu and troll plant)
Work around Team Options and Counters:

  • List Specs Latios (He will be Uber in no time, so I'll just list Sazandora too), since they work around so well with the CB set;
  • List Cloyster as a heavy counter;
Anything else?
 
@ JT Swift: I tested your Swiftnite, and it is quite annoying (for the opponent, of course). I really like it; the worst is that after 16 dragon tails it becomes a dead weight... I'm thinking about changing t-wave for another move, or to replace Leftovers for the PP-recover berry (although the lack of Lefties would not help Dragonite).
 
Ok, once again I've made edits to the lists. To others, this is my opinion, so feel free to suggest changes. I'm still opposed to a rain set at this point. People are hating Politoed and I'm also hoping he or Drizzle will be banned.


-Mixed Attacking Lead (Combine the first two together, though I'm not firm on it as other choices)
-Dragon Dance (Multi-Scale and overall bulk should make it easy to combine the two versions together)
-Choice Band
-Parashuffle/SubRoost
-Support (No Multi-Scale is a bummer, but I would still like to see this guy up)


OC Mentions


Other Choice sets
(Specially based) Mixed Rain Sweeper

Anything else that warrants mention gets regulated to AC or OC.



So I have been using the Parashuffle set and it is one annoying bastard. It works incredibly well to spread paralysis and reveal the enemy team. It does extend games for a long time, and yes, it's common to run out of Power Points. I haven't even used it with Toxic Spikes yet, but I know that using it would be even worse for your opponent. I changed the values a bit for the one I use (added more Speed) and the set goes up, I think a slash is necessary.

Yes, the aim of the set is to spread paralysis and be able to stay out for a long time which what the original four moves do, but you'll find times where Dragonite would like to attack for himself (especially if you're not running Toxic Spikes on the team or don't have them out yet). As long as the enemy is paralyzed, Roost can allow you to reach max HP before they attack meaning Multi-Scale will protect you. Heal until they are halted and you have max HP. Then you can freely attack or use Dragon Tail. However, if you do the latter, without Substitute, you run the risk of getting hit and shuffling to a Pokemon which will beat Dragonite since Multi-Scale is negated. Shows that Sub can be slashed, but it should remain as the primary choice.


Move 1: Thunder Wave
Move 2: Roost
Move 3: Substitute /Waterfall /Toxic
Move 4: Dragon Tail
Ability: Multiscale
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Careful
Evs: 232 HP / 84 SpDef / 192 Spe

Ok, I'm not exactely sure what the second attack should be, but it should cover what this Dragonite has trouble with, Ground Pokemon. Waterfall hits the likes of Hippowdon, Doryuuzu, Gliscor, Nidoking, etc. for super effective damage and has the chance of flinching the slower ones. If you don't want another attack, Toxic is an option if you don't have Toxic Spikes up. It also hits Gliscor, one of the bigger problems for this set.

As for the Effort Values, I raised Nite's Speed to 244 to outspeed Jolly Tyranitar. Though it might not be needed, it still is a safeguard if you encounter one. The slight drop in the other stats don't effect Nite much at all, that's how bulky he is.
 
Do we really need the Mixed, non-lead set? I've always been of the opinion that the the mixed lead set accomplishes more or less the same thing. Instead, I think the rain special set should definitely be given some prominence in the main article. Otherwise, I agree with everything that Aerodactyl listed.

Can't wait to see the finished article. Just make sure to still put EQ as an option and not take it out entirely. Great job everyone!
 
12me91 said:
Would a jolly nature work for the offensive DD set?
Click to expand...

Jolly should be slashed with Adamant, but the only reason why you'd want to use it is to tie with other base 80 Pokemon with Speed boosts of their own (like with the Scarf). The only one who might be common would be Shandera. Not much use since anybody faster than Nite with Scarfs would outspeed him anyways.
 
No reason to slash Jolly, you can get that 2nd boost no problem in many of the base 80 pokes, also the power loss is considerable.
 
Hmm. I agree that sub is the least necessary attack on swiftnite, so I'll give waterfall a go.

Also, I've been running max special defense recently, and it takes hits much better. I'm always taking special hits so physical defense isn't needed as much IMO. The speed drop isn't noticeable once you get going either. I only ran 240 speed to get a sub up before breloom spores me, but he's not in standard yet, and tyranitar always runs adamant, so 200ish speed is fine.

Maybe slash extremespeed in somewhere on the mixed attacker? Put it in the last slot on the offenseive DDer too.
 
JT Swift is pushing hard for his set (and from what I can tell, its name) to be included in the analysis. Just as a reminder, at Smogon we no longer name sets after users. Ownership of a set is a rather silly concept. If the set is included, it must be named "Substitute + Thunder Wave" or something similar.

That being said, the Substitute + Thunder Wave set has been used against me and it performed well. I would support its inclusion in the analysis. The Speed EVs do not fit the defensive nature of the set and seem misplaced when you realize that Dragon Tail has negative priority. The set centers around spreading paralysis support and using Dragon Tail so the Speed EVs should be lowered and more EVs should be allocated to Dragonite's defenses or Attack.
 
Does anyone know the Damage against a Sand Throw Dory' using Aqua Jet? I'd like to know if it can Ko it of the bat, or with a single DD.
 
stellar said:
JT Swift is pushing hard for his set (and from what I can tell, its name) to be included in the analysis. Just as a reminder, at Smogon we no longer name sets after users. Ownership of a set is a rather silly concept. If the set is included, it must be named "Substitute + Thunder Wave" or something similar.
Click to expand...

To add something else, this is something that Dragonite performs better then the other Dragons, since if your going to play an inferior Salamence you may as well play Salamence.

Not to mention its not going to be a suprise, considering the fact that most people think "DD Dragonite"
 
stellar said:
JT Swift is pushing hard for his set (and from what I can tell, its name) to be included in the analysis. Just as a reminder, at Smogon we no longer name sets after users. Ownership of a set is a rather silly concept. If the set is included, it must be named "Substitute + Thunder Wave" or something similar.

That being said, the Substitute + Thunder Wave set has been used against me and it performed well. I would support its inclusion in the analysis. The Speed EVs do not fit the defensive nature of the set and seem misplaced when you realize that Dragon Tail has negative priority. The set centers around spreading paralysis support and using Dragon Tail so the Speed EVs should be lowered and more EVs should be allocated to Dragonite's defenses or Attack.
Click to expand...

I agree with you on the naming part. Swift's set is unique, but there were other sets like it before. In fact, as I mentioned earlier, I used a variant when PO Beta came out (DClaw instead of Sub). Thus, it definitely should be in the analysis and Swift should be credited for popularizing it, but naming it after him I think is a little too far.
 
I think it depends how popular it becomes. If it's a huge influence on the metagame in the future, maybe name it after me (like crocune?) but for now, maybe call it the parashuffler?

I would like to have a set named after me though!
 
stellar said:
The Speed EVs do not fit the defensive nature of the set and seem misplaced when you realize that Dragon Tail has negative priority. The set centers around spreading paralysis support and using Dragon Tail so the Speed EVs should be lowered and more EVs should be allocated to Dragonite's defenses or Attack.
Click to expand...

Since both Breloom's Stabs are resisted, yes, the primary spread could be more emphasized towards bulk and attacking. For sure though, the spread given by JT (or me) should be mentioned in AC because Spore would really throw Nite off the thread of the set.

Anybody have any ideas of any better offensive moves besides Waterfall? To me, Dragon Claw would also seem like the best choice.
 
Well Swift, as I was expecting, the name will be Parashuffle(r). But what's the real EV/Nature spread that you've been running? The revamp is almost completed now, but I need your set to finish at least the basis. Also, list the counters and team options if possible, since I SUCK at stall, haha.
 
The problem I see with the parashuffler and mixed attacking lead is the lack of speed investment. At 0 EVs, Dnite is extremely slow and lots of pokemon can do nasty things to it that does not come in the form of direct damage. Breloom's spore of course is the best example; Smeargle's spore is more pertinent for the lead set. Thus, I think you should at least run it with an Espeon/Zatu or a status absorber.

For the lead set itself, I'm actually quite tempted to suggest a Brave nature with Fire Punch instead of Flamethrower/Fire Blast. Back when I used it, people would willingly send their 4x fire weakness pokes at it after Draco Meteor has been used. After one DM, Fblast fails to 2HKO Nat (I think). With Fire Punch, you could bluff a special fire move and then hit them with an unaltered Fire Punch. The tradeoff is that you're going to do pitiful damage to Skarmory.
 
Well, technically, SwiftNite IS swift because of its ability to shufle around paralysis fast, but that's just me being silly.

And yes, Dragonite should prioritize Xatu and Espeon as partners because they prevent Stealth Rock from happening (or at least prolong its activation), and they save slower Dragonite from being completely ruined by status moves. I think Hidden Power Fire Espeon or Xatu will do since Nattorei is generally a big problem for any offensive team will a lack of a pivot.

And while it isn't as good as Leftovers or Life Orb or Lum Berry, would White Herb be plausible for Draco Meteor-abusing sets? This would be better off on a Sazandora or Lati@s twin, though, but it could have use on the Lead set.
 
AccidentalGreed said:
Well, technically, SwiftNite IS swift because of its ability to shufle around paralysis fast, but that's just me being silly.

And yes, Dragonite should prioritize Xatu and Espeon as partners because they prevent Stealth Rock from happening (or at least prolong its activation), and they save slower Dragonite from being completely ruined by status moves. I think Hidden Power Fire Espeon or Xatu will do since Nattorei is generally a big problem for any offensive team will a lack of a pivot.

And while it isn't as good as Leftovers or Life Orb or Lum Berry, would White Herb be plausible for Draco Meteor-abusing sets? This would be better off on a Sazandora or Lati@s twin, though, but it could have use on the Lead set.
Click to expand...

White herb is an interesting choice. I'm going to try it out next time I use the lead set. Another thing I've done in the past (oh man, I just realized now just how many different things I've tried) is a Dragon Jewel. As crazy as it sounds, it allows me to guarantee one kill, even against guys that can usually wall off Dnite. In particular, Hippowdon and Politoed (my most hated 'mon) will go down only to a Dragon Jewel Draco Meteor + Espeed. Of course, what could happen is it the laughable situation where your Draco Meteor misses, taking the jewel with it. This happened too many times on PO unfortunately...
 
Okay, finalized:

Parashuffler
@ Leftovers
Careful
Multiscale
244 HP/252 Spdef/12 Spe OR 244 HP/88 SpDef/176 Spe


Dragon Tail
Thunder Wave
Roost
Susbtitute

I can write something up if you want, but for now I'll just keep it simple:

Teammates: Espeon and xatu, wishers, clerics, rapid spinners any support really. Pairs well with another dragon to set up and sweep once the opponent has been softened up. Whimsicott is a good choice too, providing taunt, encore, leech seed and stun spore to paralyze ground types (excadrill, landorus flygon and garchomp.)

Counters: Cloyster is the big one. He can (Could someone please clarify the extent of this?) break through dragonites sub and multiscale and take him out with icicle spear. Taunters can annoy him, but can be tailed away. You can stall out the taunt too by tailing a couple more times. Stealth rock and sandstorm make it harder for him to abuse multiscale and decrease his longevity by neutralizing his leftovers. A faster pokemon with roar can force him out as well.

Anything to add?
 
JT Swift said:
Okay, finalized:

Parashuffler
@ Leftovers
Careful
Multiscale
244 HP/252 Spdef/12 Spe OR 244 HP/88 SpDef/176 Spe


Dragon Tail
Thunder Wave
Roost
Susbtitute

I can write something up if you want, but for now I'll just keep it simple:

Teammates: Espeon and xatu, wishers, clerics, rapid spinners any support really. Pairs well with another dragon to set up and sweep once the opponent has been softened up. Whimsicott is a good choice too, providing taunt, encore, leech seed and stun spore to paralyze ground types (excadrill, landorus flygon and garchomp.)

Counters: Cloyster is the big one. He can (Could someone please clarify the extent of this?) break through dragonites sub and multiscale and take him out with icicle spear. Taunters can annoy him, but can be tailed away. You can stall out the taunt too by tailing a couple more times. Stealth rock and sandstorm make it harder for him to abuse multiscale and decrease his longevity by neutralizing his leftovers. A faster pokemon with roar can force him out as well.

Anything to add?
Click to expand...

Thanks buddy!
 
This might seem stupid, but how about Aqua Jet to crush Doryuuzu and a few other prominent ones? (eg Shandera and um..... can't remember the others right now).

Personally, I still love Extremespeed (especially with a Choice Band). Just thought I'd mention it, even if I'm probably wrong.
 
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