Whimsicott (Placeholder)

I have actually been running a wall Erufuun that has worked out pretty well.

Erufuun
Mischievous Heart
Leftovers
Calm
252 SpD 252 HP 4 Def

Substitute
Leech Seed
Cotton Guard
Hurricane(Gale)

SubSeed obviously, but Hurricane prevents being walled by Grass types and gives added damage with confusion. Cotton Guard gives Erufuun a priority move that gives a +3 boost to his Def. This
 
Seven Deadly Sins said:
No.

Erufuun doesn't need to "outrun other mischievous heart users" at the cost of being actually bulky and taking hits. And Salac Berry? What? No. Just... no.
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I agree Salac Berry is risky but it could work. If you're going to go with your gut, then Tornelos and Voltolos with Taunt will be great Erufuun counters.
wtangelo said:
I have actually been running a wall Erufuun that has worked out pretty well.

Erufuun
Mischievous Heart
Leftovers
Calm
252 SpD 252 HP 4 Def

Substitute
Leech Seed
Cotton Guard
Hurricane(Gale)

SubSeed obviously, but Hurricane prevents being walled by Grass types and gives added damage with confusion. Cotton Guard gives Erufuun a priority move that gives a +3 boost to his Def. This
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As good as Hurricane is, Sandstorm, Hail and Sunny weather are as popular as ever now which drops the accuracy to 50%. Also, with the lack of Taunt, you are vulnerable to Roar and Whirlwind and Roar on Hippowdon is as popular as ever now a days. Not to mention Whirlwind Drapion lays down Toxic Spikes and poisons your team.
 
Yes PHazing will stop it but you would not imagine how many times people wont run Hippowdon or Drapion

Also, with the exception of Ludicolo and Nattorei, how often have you seen Grass-types on Sandstorm/RainDance teams?
 
You didn't mention celebi and shaymin as counter. I think they're the best because of grass type AND BECAUSE of they're special ability which make them laugh of toxik or stun spore.
 
ParaChomp said:
As good as Hurricane is, Sandstorm, Hail and Sunny weather are as popular as ever now which drops the accuracy to 50%. Also, with the lack of Taunt, you are vulnerable to Roar and Whirlwind and Roar on Hippowdon is as popular as ever now a days. Not to mention Whirlwind Drapion lays down Toxic Spikes and poisons your team.
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Actually, re-reading this post, only sun and PHazing gives it trouble. Hail is rarely if ever used, sandstorm screws Erufuun anyway negating lefties recovery, and rain actually boosts Gale to 100% accuracy. Only sun, which is not often used, drops accuracy to 50%. Hail and Sandstorm also leave accuracy at 70% and with a 30% confusion rate, it is well worth the trade off.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Windstorm_(move)
http://veekun.com/dex/moves/hurricane

Two different sites citing that it is only affected by sun.
 
wtangelo said:
Actually, re-reading this post, only sun and PHazing gives it trouble. Hail is rarely if ever used, sandstorm screws Erufuun anyway negating lefties recovery, and rain actually boosts Gale to 100% accuracy. Only sun, which is not often used, drops accuracy to 50%. Hail and Sandstorm also leave accuracy at 70% and with a 30% confusion rate, it is well worth the trade off.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Windstorm_(move)
http://veekun.com/dex/moves/hurricane

Two different sites citing that it is only affected by sun.
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Really? I didn't know that. Still, what you have is good the problem is that it's extremely risky.
 
It is fairly risky, but then aren't all sets risky? I feel this set is a viable option. Any physical sweeper is stopped dead in it's tracks. The only really notable physical sweeper that can't be seeded is Breloom, which is 2x weak to Hurricane. Min. SpA with a hindering nature Erufuun still does 65%-72% on MaxSpD Max HP Breloom with a SpD boosting nature. Mach punch fails to 2HKO in return at only 26%-30% without any boosts. If Erufuun has a Cotton Guard up, Mach Punch does even less, only doing around 35-41 damage. Not percent, damage.

If you can think of anything else that screws with it please let me know, but I personally think this deserves a spot as it can potentially stop physical sweepers in their tracks and wreck whole teams if they aren't running PHaze.
 
Not gonna lie, my interest in this has kinda waned for the following reason:

"Erufuun is outclassed by Monmen"

Yeah, that's it. The only disadvantage Evolution Stone Monmen has over Erufuun is that it doesn't get Leftovers healing, but that's made up for with:

- "better" Leech Seed healing due to lower base HP
- More bulk in terms of raw def/sdef stats.
- Irrelevant Attack making the lower stats nearly irrelevant
- Lower Speed meaning that it takes less damage from Gyro Ball in the few times it's relevant, with Mischievous Heart making speed irrelevant.

So yeah... thoughts?
 
Redo the whole thread with Monmen in place of Erufuun, and place Erufuun in the "Pokemon unfit for OU" analysis section. Predictably, people will come in saying denying your claim, fanboys will cry, etc.

Edit: I just checked, there is nothing notable that Erufuun learns over Monmen.
 
Seven Deadly Sins said:
Not gonna lie, my interest in this has kinda waned for the following reason:

"Erufuun is outclassed by Monmen"

Yeah, that's it. The only disadvantage Evolution Stone Monmen has over Erufuun is that it doesn't get Leftovers healing, but that's made up for with:

- "better" Leech Seed healing due to lower base HP
- More bulk in terms of raw def/sdef stats.
- Irrelevant Attack making the lower stats nearly irrelevant
- Lower Speed meaning that it takes less damage from Gyro Ball in the few times it's relevant, with Mischievous Heart making speed irrelevant.

So yeah... thoughts?
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Erufuun is still faster at using Taunt on other Mischievous Heart users. Outside of that, you're right, Erufuun is severely outclassed by Monmen.
 
Well, having higher speed, Erufuun works better as an Anti-Lead and is able to Taunt all Mischievous heart users including Boroterosu. Off the top of my head, a decent anti-lead could be:

[SET]
name: Anti-Lead
move1:Taunt
move2:Memento
move3:Encore
move4:Sun Spore
252 HP / 252 Spe
Timid

Ok, this is a pretty horrible set, but still my point is that Erufuun works better than Monmen as a lead so it's not entiiiiirely outclassed.
 
iDunno said:
Well, having higher speed, Erufuun works better as an Anti-Lead and is able to Taunt all Mischievous heart users including Boroterosu.
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Seven Deadly Sins said:
Erufuun doesn't need to "outrun other mischievous heart users" at the cost of being actually bulky and taking hits. And Salac Berry? What? No. Just... no.
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This was to me and I bet you'll get the same treatment. I do agree with you though that out running Boroterosu is a really good idea but the idea of having bulk is clearly outclasses speed.
 
That and due to the fact that Erufuun RARELY uses maximum Speed. Mischievous Heart and its all-out support sets kind of defeat the point of Speed, and Voltolos is pretty much the only thing that CAN run maximum Speed and be a support / offensive threat. Not sure Erufuun can "beat" Monmen due to this.
 
AccidentalGreed said:
That and due to the fact that Erufuun RARELY uses maximum Speed. Mischievous Heart and its all-out support sets kind of defeat the point of Speed, and Voltolos is pretty much the only thing that CAN run maximum Speed and be a support / offensive threat. Not sure Erufuun can "beat" Monmen due to this.
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What about Tornelos? Jokes aside, what's said is true. Plus you can switch out an use a sweeper to deal with them if they're bugging you that much.
 
Outspeeding other MH users may not be a big deal, but 66 speed means you won't outspeed quite a few non-MH priority users. You'll only consistently outspeed slugs like Roopushin, while you're in the same neighborhood as Scizor, Breloom, Donphan, Abomasnow, and Mamoswine.

Are any of those a problem due to the lower speed?
 
Yeah, those guys do seem to be a big deal when you're just faster than Roopushin and (maybe) Shibirudon. Perhaps Erufuun should be used in this department, or Monmen should be forced to run some speed or get some specific counter for those threats.

While we're thinking about that, half those guys have priority.

EDIT: Yeah, I just realized they all use priority...
 
A Man In Black said:
Outspeeding other MH users may not be a big deal, but 66 speed means you won't outspeed quite a few non-MH priority users. You'll only consistently outspeed slugs like Roopushin, while you're in the same neighborhood as Scizor, Breloom, Donphan, Abomasnow, and Mamoswine.

Are any of those a problem due to the lower speed?
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When you have Stun Spore or Charm/Cotton Guard, no. Speed is not nearly as important of a factor with Stun Spore, besides against other Mischievous Heart-ers, but against everything else, it is not too important. Sure, you may take a Bullet Punch before being able to Leech Seed or Substitute, but Monmen (and don't quote me on this) with Evolution Stone should be able to take a hit or two, anyways. Mamoswine and Donphan are somewhat threatening to even Erufuun anyways (if we're discussing the downsides to using Monmen), since they can just force Erufuun to spam Substitute, unless they switch in on Erufuun. If they switch in on Monmen, you'll still have the upper hand by being able to Stun Spore or Leech Seed them before you switch out. Abomasnow is rarely seen with Ice Shard, considering its attack stat is lackluster, while you can't do much of anything to Abomasnow or Breloom (who is also "immune", with Toxic Orb, to Stun Spore), to begin with. As for the only other "popular" Ice Shard user, Weavile... even Erufuun is outsped by it.

-Zane

Edit: Now that I think about it, Monmen should have the upper hand on almost anything if the opponent is switching in on it. Using Substitute before anything will allow you to Stun Spore the switch in on the next turn, letting you outspeed it easily, and Substitute stall till full paralysis lets you squeeze in a Leech Seed or Charm. It's still a rather tight place for Monmen, but it's likely to come out on top.
 
I think worry seed should at least get a mention, since it halves the speed of sandstorm doryuuzu and rain kingdra, while taking off roobushin's guts and gliscor's poison heal...
 
Seven Deadly Sins said:
No. Nobody gives a shit about outspeeding other MH users, stop bringing it up. End of story.
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Watch your tongue or I'll cut it off! Cussing does not get your point across better, it makes people respect you less! Also, accept the fact that I now understand that no speed investments is a the best idea. On top of that, it was a joke (a bad one too)!

Everyone else does make a strong point though, other priority moves will still hit and some of them hit incredibly hard such as Scizor's Swords Dance and Technician boosted Bullet Punch. Choice Band Metagross' Bullet Punch hurts a lot too. Roopushin fits into the same boat with its powerful Mach Punch. Then there's Mamoswine who has STAB Ice Shard that's super effective. Still with all this, I doubt it will change your opinion on speed investments, it's pointless considering that your Substitute will only be destroyed over and over again. These should go under counters because of this reason.

reasons Erufuun is out classed my Monmen:
1. with an Evolution Stone, Monmen is bulkier
2. because of its lower HP, Monmen gains more HP with Leech Seed
3. despite Erufuun having higher speed than Monmen, priority move users can attack quickly to break the Substitute, absorb Toxic, Taunt or Encore (this makes Stun Spore more preferable) and take either of the 2 out next turn
 
Seven Deadly Sins said:
No. Nobody gives a shit about outspeeding other MH users, stop bringing it up. End of story.
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I just saw this post. I agree with Seven Deadly Sins (besides the aggressiveness of the statement). Okay, so Borutorusu switches in to you. So? Switch to a Choice Scarf or Band user and take it out as it tries to Taunt you. Or you could out-predict Borutorusu and stay in with Stun Spore, as the opponent attacks/Nasty Plots, thinking you're going to switch. Neutered. It puts pressure on Monmen/Erufuun, but it's easily remedied with another team mate or smart playing.

Not to mention that team preview is a heads up, anyways.

-Zane
 
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