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Vaporeon (Analysis)

Just because DrizzleToad isn't released yet, I don't see why you can't include a Rest/Hydration set. It can stall, or be a special sweeper with an instant recovery move.
The move Rain Dance (and the item Damp Rock) still exists, afterall.
 
Marzbar said:
Just because DrizzleToad isn't released yet, I don't see why you can't include a Rest/Hydration set. It can stall, or be a special sweeper with an instant recovery move.
The move Rain Dance (and the item Damp Rock) still exists, afterall.
Click to expand...

Drizzletoed is released. Hydrationvap is completely outclassed by Manaphy right now.
 
A Man In Black said:
Drizzletoed is released. Hydrationvap is completely outclassed by Manaphy right now.
Click to expand...

So just because one pokemon does it better, all other competitive pokemon capable of performing the same role should be disregarded? Does that mean we should only have one spin blocker in the OU section? And one cleric? And one entry hazard user?

Besides, we all know Manaphy is getting banned (unless Drizzle gets banned).
 
Marzbar said:
So just because one pokemon does it better, all other competitive pokemon capable of performing the same role should be disregarded? Does that mean we should only have one spin blocker in the OU section? And one cleric? And one entry hazard user?

Besides, we all know Manaphy is getting banned (unless Drizzle gets banned).
Click to expand...

If that one Pokemon completely outclasses the competition, yes. Manaphy does any Hydration-Rest set you'd ever want to do on Vaporeon, only better because of better speed, set up moves (or the threat of set up moves), and better coverage.

It's unclear what will be banned; if Drizzletoed is out entirely, then Hydration Vaporeon is left homeless and useless. It's a little early to start speculating about a future metagame.
 
If two Pokemon are both capabale of performing the same role, why not include both of them in an analysis?

I think the Hydration/Rest set is at least worth MENTIONING in the damn analysis, don't you?

Smogon claims to be a university and the premier resource for competitive battling strategies. And yet you won't even MENTION a competitive set because you are blinded by your obsession with a handful of boring, broken, cookie-cutter cliche Pokemon.

Some people might like to use a Hydration Vaporeon because *GASP* they may not have a Manaphy!
 
Marzbar said:
If two Pokemon are both capabale of performing the same role, why not include both of them in an analysis?

I think the Hydration/Rest set is at least worth MENTIONING in the damn analysis, don't you?

Smogon claims to be a university and the premier resource for competitive battling strategies. And yet you won't even MENTION a competitive set because you are blinded by your obsession with a handful of boring, broken, cookie-cutter cliche Pokemon.

Some people might like to use a Hydration Vaporeon because *GASP* they may not have a Manaphy!
Click to expand...

Since these analyses are being written almost solely for simulator play, whether or not the person actually has a Manaphy in-game is somewhat irrelevant. Please don't start cussing out Smogon in general just because you have received one negative response.

Disregarding that, however, I believe that it is Smogon's policy to include any competitive set for a Pokemon, regardless of whether it is outclassed, as long as that set is actually competitive (that is to say, effective) in the tier it is being written for. So, you are correct when you say that, if RainRest Vap is competitive, it should get a set. I'm not quite convinced that RainRest Vaporeon is actually that effective, but that's just my opinion.

You shouldn't really be suggesting whole new sets, though, after the analysis has been QC Approved and written already. So, really, if you really think that this deserves a set mention, take it up with the QC members directly or wait until you are allowed to post your own sets, and then submit it.
 
How is it not competitive?

Hydration, Rain in play, defensive EV spread, Leftovers
- Toxic
- Protect
- Rest
- Boiling Water / Roar / Haze / Ice Beam / Surf

If the analysis has been approved, surely it can still be added to?
 
Marzbar said:
How is it not competitive?

Hydration, Rain in play, defensive EV spread, Leftovers
- Toxic
- Protect
- Rest
- Boiling Water / Roar / Haze / Ice Beam / Surf

If the analysis has been approved, surely it can still be added to?
Click to expand...

Actually, as far as I know if a new set is added then the quality of it should be checked, making the previous checks no longer valid.

And bugmaniacbob said HE wasn't convinced it was competitive so it's just his oppinion.

You can let this be uploaded and then suggest the set to be added to the analysis.
 
Hydration Vaporeon is not that good when you actually lokk at what the other sets and other users of Hydration (Manaphy) can do. First off, your losing the ability to use Wish. That alone should automatically stop any chance of it getting a set at all IMO, but because Vaporeon can't boost her stats to actually hurt something, has to use Toxic to be able to actually take something down, and that Manaphy exists pretty much means that Hydration Vaporeon is not a good enough set even if Manaphy is gotten rid of.
 
The ONLY thing Hydration gives you is the ability to remove status, such as Toxic (Thunder Wave doesn't really matter and most things with a sleep move can force Vaporeon out anyway). Also, since the metagame is so centralized around weather, the opponent could easily switch in a Tyranitar/Hippowdon/Ninetales and ruin your Hydration Rest. Furthermore, if you are using Hydration, you lose out on the opportunity to pass Wishes, something that Vaporeon is known for.

Also, Manaphy can run a spread of 252 HP / 60 Def / 100 SpA / 96 SpD with a Bold nature and have MORE defensive capabilities on both sides, MORE offensive capabilities, and is FASTER in general (compared to a 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 whatever Bold Vaporeon). That is the definition of outclassed. Vaporeon should stick to what niche it has instead of trying to have one that is completely outclassed. Even if you say "oh but what if I don't want to use Manaphy as a wall, I want to use it as a sweeper?" then you're better off using a different Pokemon instead of Vaporeon because it would be more beneficial to have a sweeper instead of a wall on a team that's more oriented towards sweeping.
 
Perhaps it could have a brief mention in the other options section? Even if you say the set is outclassed by other Pokemon.
 
Here are a few logs showing how Hydration Vaporeon can be devastating in the rain. I ran a moveset of Boiling Water/Rest/Acid Armor/Toxic. I managed to stall out things like Scizor and Salamence... Really, it can be very effective if played right. I think it is worth a mention outside of the Dream World section.

And who needs wish when you've got rest in the rain? (besides teammates)

Start of turn 27
The foe's Scizor used Superpower!
Vaporeon lost 175 HP! (37% of its health)
The foe's Scizor's Attack fell!
The foe's Scizor's Defense fell!

Vaporeon used Acid Armor!
Vaporeon's Defense sharply rose!

Rain continues to fall!
Vaporeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 28
Vaporeon used Acid Armor!
Vaporeon's Defense sharply rose!

The foe's Scizor used Swords Dance!
The foe's Scizor's Attack sharply rose!

Rain continues to fall!
Vaporeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 29
Vaporeon used Boil Over!
The foe's Scizor lost 3% of its health!
The foe's Scizor fainted!

Rain continues to fall!
Vaporeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
후우로 sent out Salamence!

The foe's Salamence intimidates Vaporeon!
Vaporeon's Attack fell!

Start of turn 30
The foe's Salamence used Dragon Dance!
The foe's Salamence's Attack rose!
The foe's Salamence's Speed rose!

Vaporeon used Toxic!
The foe's Salamence was poisoned!

Rain continues to fall!
The foe's Salamence is hurt by poison!
Vaporeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 31
The foe's Salamence used Dragon Dance!
The foe's Salamence's Attack rose!
The foe's Salamence's Speed rose!

Vaporeon used Acid Armor!
Vaporeon's Defense sharply rose!

Rain continues to fall!
The foe's Salamence is hurt by poison!
Vaporeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 32
The foe's Salamence used Dragon Dance!
The foe's Salamence's Attack rose!
The foe's Salamence's Speed rose!

Vaporeon used Boil Over!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Salamence lost 29% of its health!

Rain continues to fall!
The foe's Salamence is hurt by poison!
Vaporeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 33
The foe's Salamence used Dragon Dance!
The foe's Salamence's Attack rose!
The foe's Salamence's Speed rose!

Vaporeon used Rest!
Vaporeon went to sleep and became healthy!

Rain continues to fall!
Vaporeon's Hydration heals its status!
The foe's Salamence is hurt by poison!

Start of turn 34
The foe's Salamence used Outrage!
Vaporeon lost 204 HP! (43% of its health)

Vaporeon used Boil Over!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Salamence lost 8% of its health!
The foe's Salamence fainted!

Chanman won the battle!
Chanman: Yay.
후우로: GG

Start of turn 36
Vaporeon used Acid Armor!
Vaporeon's Defense sharply rose!

The foe's Roobushin used Drain Punch!
Vaporeon lost 127 HP! (27% of its health)
Vaporeon had its energy drained!

Rain continues to fall!
Vaporeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Roobushin restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Roobushin is hurt by its burn!

Start of turn 37
AbsolJM called Roobushin back!
AbsolJM sent out Nattorei!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Nattorei!

Vaporeon used Acid Armor!
Vaporeon's Defense sharply rose!

Rain continues to fall!
Vaporeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Nattorei is hurt by its burn!

Start of turn 38
Vaporeon used Boil Over!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Nattorei lost 16% of its health!

The foe's Nattorei used Leech Seed!
Vaporeon was seeded!

Rain continues to fall!
Vaporeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Vaporeon's health is sapped by leech seed.
The foe's Nattorei is hurt by its burn!

Start of turn 39
Vaporeon used Rest!
Vaporeon went to sleep and became healthy!

The foe's Nattorei used Power Whip!
It's super effective!
Vaporeon lost 54 HP! (11% of its health)

Rain continues to fall!
Vaporeon's Hydration heals its status!
Vaporeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Vaporeon's health is sapped by leech seed.
The foe's Nattorei is hurt by its burn!

Start of turn 40
Vaporeon used Boil Over!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Nattorei lost 15% of its health!

The foe's Nattorei used Power Whip!
It's super effective!
Vaporeon lost 50 HP! (10% of its health)

Rain continues to fall!
Vaporeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Vaporeon's health is sapped by leech seed.
The foe's Nattorei is hurt by its burn!

Start of turn 41
Vaporeon used Boil Over!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Nattorei lost 16% of its health!

The foe's Nattorei used Power Whip!
It's super effective!
Vaporeon lost 50 HP! (10% of its health)

Rain continues to fall!
Vaporeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Vaporeon's health is sapped by leech seed.
The foe's Nattorei is hurt by its burn!

Start of turn 42
Vaporeon used Boil Over!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Nattorei lost 16% of its health!

The foe's Nattorei used Power Whip!
It's super effective!
Vaporeon lost 56 HP! (12% of its health)

Rain continues to fall!
Vaporeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Vaporeon's health is sapped by leech seed.
The foe's Nattorei is hurt by its burn!

Start of turn 43
Vaporeon used Boil Over!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Nattorei lost 11% of its health!
The foe's Nattorei fainted!

Rain continues to fall!
Vaporeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
AbsolJM sent out Roobushin!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Roobushin!

Start of turn 44
Vaporeon used Boil Over!
The foe's Roobushin lost 39% of its health!
The foe's Roobushin fainted!

Chanman won the battle!
Chanman: Yay.
AbsolJM: Looks like you won this time, good game! :)
 
Any Vaporeon can beat weakened physical sweepers, those logs don't show much. Thing is, the normal Wish Vaporeon can beat them even without rain.
 
Updated to reflect unofficial English names and Manaphy's banning (thus making Hydration Vaporeon more... viable I guess).
 
It's not just "viable". With Manaphy's banning, Vaporeon is now the best Pokemon at using a Hydration/Rest/Drizzle set.
 
hmmm bulky sets are classic...
[SET]
name: Bulk the heck up
move 1: Acid Armour
move 2: Aqua Ring/Wish/Sub
move 3: Boiling Water
move 4: Ice Beam/Toxic
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
If you get an acid armour off your def goes to 480, very nice, and with the high base 130 HP you can take hits like nothing. Sub to prevent status, and help on switch ins to counter, or Wish to heal HP faster, same with Aqua ring healing 12% each turn. Toxic lets you take on other bulky pokes like roopushin and such making it harder for them to stay in and set up. This is mainly if you don't want to use hydration and find water absorb more useful.

Note: I DO use this set and it DOES work
 
Hey I had an idea for vaporeon that i haven't ever seen anyone mention: Whirlpool. Whirlpool might be a great move for a batton pass/wish switch because it can help set up your next pokemon. Vaporeon can trap the enemy of your choice so that it is easier for your next sweeper to set up, plus in black in white whirlpool got boosted up to 35 damage, but it would suck if the whirlpool only lasted 2 turns. What do you guys think?
 
No, for the two sets above. Skim the entire thread. No more additions are needed, it's in the process of being GP checked.

Acid Armor should be used only with Baton Pass.

And Whirlpool? They would usually switch in a counter right away, so.....
 
yes, i know... but throw them into a whirlpool and then switch in a sweeper who can handle that counter and start to set up. Vaporeon has the bulk to take some hits while it uses whirlpool and then a wish/baton-pass. and if you have already used acid armor when the counter comes in, whirlpool them, and then baton-pass to your sweeper who now has great set up without having to worry about a counter switching in on it.
I think it is a nice ploy to bring in an enemy counter and then get them stuck while you switch in your counter and they can't switch back out.
 
But Whirpool also has the unreliable 70 accuracy. It's already too much to run with two Water moves (you should never be without Hydro Pump, Surf, or Boiling Water), but that accuracy is terrible for its low power.
 
oooh, ya i totally forgot about accuracy, but actually its accuracy in bw is 85% now, so thats better, but i figured it was 100%. Hmmm I also found out that at least in the 4th gen whirlpool's effects stop when the user switches out so that puts a huge hole in my idea, unless that fact changed in bw... but I haven't found that info
 
85 is not as bad I guess. I don't even know if Whirlpool would work with Baton Pass in the first place honestly, but even if it did, it's still too much to take away from a slot where you could use a better move.
 
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