CAP 12 CAP1 - Miscellaneous Flavor - (Flavor Ability Discussion)

[reachzero]

It's finally time for us to decide on Tomohawk's Dream World ability! In this is thread, we will suggest and discuss flavor abilities. As this is a flavor ability, abilities suggested may not have competitive merit. I do not interpret thisto mean "less merit than Intimidate or Prankster", I interpret this to mean "no merit whatsoever". To be more specific, this eliminates:

Hide

Adaptability
Aftermath
Airlock
Analytic
Anger Point
Arena Trap
Battle Armor
Chlorophyll
Cloud Nine
Color Change
Compoundeyes
Contrary
Cursed Body
Cute Charm
Download
Drizzle
Drought
Dry Skin
Early Bird
Effect Spore
Filter
Flame Body
Flare Boost
Flash Fire
Flower Gift
Forecast
Frisk
Gluttony
Guts
Harvest
Heatproof
Huge Power
Hustle
Hydration
Ice Body
Illusion
Immunity
Imposter
Infiltrator
Inner Focus
Insomnia
Iron Barbs
Klutz
Leaf Guard
Levitate
Lightningrod
Limber
Liquid Ooze
Magic Bounce
Magic Guard
Magma Armor
Magnet Pull
Marvel Scale
Mold Breaker
Motor Drive
Multiscale
Multitype
Mummy
Natural Cure
No Guard
Overcoat
Own Tempo
Poison Heal
Poison Point
Poison Touch
Pressure
Pure Power
Quick Feet
Rain Dish
Rattled
Reckless
Regenerator
Rivalry
Rock Head
Rough Skin
Sand Force
Sand Rush
Sand Stream
Sand Veil
Sap Sipper
Scrappy
Serene Grace
Shadow Tag
Shed Skin
Sheer Force
Shell Armor
Shield Dust
Simple
Sniper
Snow Cloak
Snow Warning
Solar Power
Solid Rock
Soundproof
Speed Boost
Static
Steadfast
Stench
Sticky Hold
Storm Drain
Sturdy
Suction Cups
Swift Swim
Synchronize
Technician
Thick Fat
Tinted Lens
Toxic Boost
Trace
Unaware
Unburden
Unnerve
Victory Star
Vital Spirit
Volt Absorb
Water Absorb
Water Veil
Weak Armor
Wonder Guard
Wonder Skin
Zen Mode

If you disagree with the exclusion of any ability on this list, or feel another ability not mentioned deserves to be excluded, feel free to argue so in this thread.

Here is our CAP so far:

Name: Tomohawk

Typing: Flying/Fighting

Base Stats: 105 HP/60 Atk/90 Def/115 SpA/80 SpD/85 Spe

Abilities: Intimidate/Prankster

[quote="capefeather, post: 3430467"]*bursts in with an epic [B]Final Submission[/B]*

Legend:
* - Move is repeated in this or a previous list
. - Move is (almost) required by a different move
! - Move is (almost) required by typing or ability
!! - Move is absolutely required by typing or ability
[B]Bold[/B] - A VGM that is not repeated in this or a previous list
[hide=Level-up]00 Sunny Day
[B]00 Aura Sphere[/B]
00 Fury Swipes
00 Harden
08 Fury Swipes*
13 Harden*
[B]17 Aerial Ace
20 Morning Sun
23 Whirlwind
29 Rain Dance
33 Earth Power
37 Air Slash[/B]
42 Submission
[B]45 Heat Wave
49 Hyper Voice[/B]
50 Sky Drop
[B]51 Superpower
53 Rest
55 Hurricane
60 Healing Wish[/B][/hide]
Unique moves: 18
Unique VGMs: 13
[hide=Explanation]I've taken quite a few creative liberties with the      level-up movepool. This CAP is really breaking a lot of ground because      it's primary Flying and a Fighting-type with a poor Atk stat. I've      always wanted to do a "mage" type learnset, and the shamanistic nature      of this CAP has given me the perfect excuse to do so (though my    original   dream was to reference FF1's Chaos :P ). The "elemental"    moves here  are  Rain Dance, Earth Power, Air Slash and Heat Wave, with    Hurricane   eventually learned near the end as well.

This learnset is full of sneaky references, which is why I've filled it      to the maximum reasonable number of moves. I've incorporated a few of      the North American aboriginal creation stories involving the raven    (the   raven is originally white in Haida myths). It references a myth    about   the raven stealing the sun, moon, stars (Sunny Day), a  firebrand   (Heat   Wave, I guess), and fresh water (Rain Dance) to give  to the   mortal   world. Sky Drop is somewhat a reference to another  myth   involving the   raven dropping a stone into the ocean to form  land.   There's also a   legend about a seagull and the raven sticking a  thorn   into its foot, but   Spikes is disallowed, so... Aerial Ace and    Submission are also here to   reference the Street Fighter character  T.   Hawk. (The anime depicts   Aerial Ace as a low-altitude gliding  attack,   and Submission is similar   to the grapple that T. Hawk does.)

The progression is simple enough. I believe that Tomohawk should start      off with a "base" special move (Aura Sphere) because it's one of only      three special Fighting-type moves. The theme here is that it starts   off    using naive physical attacks like Fury Swipes and then  eventually    learns  to channel the energies of the spirits and use  them. Harden  is a    reference to Cartoons's original concept, with the  fur hardening  to   act  like feathers. I also need a move to fit with  Tomohawk's  name, a    reference to a light axe that is thrown. Giga  Impact doesn't  quite fit,    so Superpower has made it in. Finally, I  feel that  Tomohawk should get    some kind of mind-refresh before  getting  Hurricane, but Amnesia is    banned, so Rest is there instead.

Healing Wish is a cool move IMO; it's kind of a reference to FF6's Sabin      (not that anyone used Spiraler or whatever it's called now), but   more    than that, it just fits somehow with the whole shaman /   chieftain  deal   that this CAP is getting.[/hide]
[hide=Machines]05 Roar
[B]06 Toxic!!
08 Bulk Up!
10 Hidden Power!![/B]
11 Sunny Day!*
[B] 12 Taunt[/B]
15 Hyper Beam!
[B]17 Protect!![/B]
18 Rain Dance*
20 Safeguard.
[B]21 Frustration!![/B]
22 SolarBeam.
[B]26 Earthquake.[/B]
27 Return!!
[B]31 Brick Break![/B]
32 Double Team!!
[B]33 Reflect[/B]
39 Rock Tomb!
40 Aerial Ace!*
[B]42 Facade!![/B]
44 Rest!!*
45 Attract!!
46 Thief
48 Round!!
49 Echoed Voice.
[B]52 Focus Blast![/B]
54 False Swipe
56 Fling!
58 Sky Drop*
59 Incinerate!!
60 Quash
[B]62 Acrobatics[/B]
67 Retaliate!
68 Giga Impact!
70 Flash
78 Bulldoze.
[B]80 Rock Slide!
83 Work Up!!
86 Grass Knot.[/B]
87 Swagger!!
[B]90 Substitute!![/B]
94 Rock Smash!!
h2 Fly
h4 Strength!![/hide]
Unique moves: 38
Unique VGMs: 16
[hide=Explanation]Most of these are type-move and move-move (almost)      requirements. I want to avoid putting in too many Psychic-type moves      because I don't think that they fit with the concept (though Reflect is      there). Thief is another reference to the trickster aspect  mentioned     earlier, and a stronger reference to the firebrand is made  through     Incinerate and Flash. However, despite other Fire-type  moves usually     being required with Heat Wave, I've chosen not to put  them in because     I'm already breaking the Fire-type monopoly on  level-up Heat Wave.

I also don't have Cut because Tomohawk is an "axe", not a sword (Cut is      "Iai Cut", a reference to a sword technique) and this movepool has no      claw moves other than Fury Swipes.[/hide]
[hide=Breeding (Ground / Flying) (NO ILLEGALITIES)][B]Baton Pass[/B] (Eevee, Sentret, Furret, Aipom, Ambipom, Girafarig, Mawile, Buneary, Lopunny, Patrat, Watchog)

[B]Confuse Ray[/B] (Vulpix, Ninetales, Lapras, Umbreon, Mantine, Stantler, Spoink, Grumpig, Watchog)

Focus Energy (Rattata, Raticate, Nidoran-M, Nidorino, Nidoking, Mankey,      Primeape, Torchic, Combusken, Blaziken, Vigoroth, Numel, Camerupt,      Stunky, Skuntank)

[B]Haze[/B] (Zubat, Golbat, Crobat, Murkrow, Honchkrow)

[B]Memento[/B] (Stunky, Skuntank)

[B]Nature Power[/B] (Seedot, Nuzleaf, Deerling, Sawsbuck)

[B]Rapid Spin[/B] (Sandshrew, Sandslash, Donphan, Torkoal, Drillbur, Excadrill)

[B]Roost[/B] (Pidgey, Pidgeotto, Pidgeot, Spearow, Fearow, Hoothoot,      Noctowl, Dunsparce, Wingull, Pelipper, Chatot, Pidove, Tranquill,      Unfezant, Ducklett, Swanna)

[B]Stealth Rock[/B] (Skarmory)

[B]Yawn[/B] (Wooper, Quagsire, Dunsparce, Slakoth, Vigoroth, Slaking, Bidoof, Bibarel, Hippopotas, Hippowdon, Pansear, Munna)[/hide]
Unique moves: 10
Unique VGMs: 9
[hide=Explanation]Also known as the level-up rejects, honestly. Most of      these are competitive moves that I really wanted on Tomohawk but      couldn't fit into level-up or the machines. You may in particular notice      my inclusion of Rapid Spin. Sorry, Delibird :( I think that this is  a     potentially great move for Tomohawk, and I'd personally like to  see    what  Tomohawk can do with it. Will it be devastatingly effective  like     Excadrill, or will it be kind of lame like Forretress?

I've put Roost into the egg movepool because Tomohawk isn't really a      bird (yeah, "Feather Rest", but still). But it still breeds with      birds...? -.- Best not to think about it.[/hide]
Total unique moves: 66
Total VGMs: 38

[B]Some general comments[/B]

I'll admit that my movepool is mostly based on flavour, but the      competitive theme here is a small but precise non-attacking movepool. I      didn't put in every non-attacking move that "seems interesting"    because   there are way too many of them and a lot of the good ones are      level-up/egg only. Let's be honest, here: [B]Do we really need a super-bloated non-attacking movepool?[/B]

I've made an explicit effort to limit or outright avoid moves of the following categories:

Psychic-type (e.g. no Psych Up or Gravity)
Poison-type (e.g. no Sludge Wave)
Moves that modify anything other than Atk or Def (e.g. no Hone Claws)
Moves that can disrupt move choice (e.g. no Torment/Disable/Switcheroo)
Physical moves (all of the physical moves in this pool are justified by flavour or move-move guidelines)

I absolutely do not believe that most Psychic- or Poison-type moves make      any sense on Tomohawk. In my view, Tomohawk should be using the    powers   of nature, not supernatural mind tricks or waves of garbage. (I    don't   quite get other people's justification of Mimic, either.    Tomohawk is   using a disguise, not copying others' actions.) I also    want Tomohawk's   Hurricane to get support entirely from rain or another    Pokémon's   Gravity, and not set it up for itself (other than with   Rain  Dance). I   also find choice-disrupting moves potentially broken   with  this CAP, so I   have excluded them. The movepool still does have   some  gems like bulky   Substitute, Healing Wish, Memento,  Roost and   Yawn  (arguably better  than  sleep if the opponent stays in).

You may have noticed that Baton Pass is this movepool's only switching      move. Screw Volt Switch -.- Only Electric-types and Steel-types learn      it. It doesn't make sense! Baton Pass is clearly the most effective      switching move to include here, so that's what I have done.

I've also completely ignored move-move guidelines for Stealth Rock and      Heat Wave. The main justification for this is that Tomohawk is not a      Rock-type (or mainly rock-dwelling creature) or a Fire-type, so I'm      violating "canon" a bit anyway by including these moves. I really   didn't    want to have to put in stuff like Sandstorm (doesn't make  much  sense   to  me) or Flame Charge (disallowed).[/QUOTE]

This thread will remain open for approximately 24 hours.

 

[Onetwobanana]

I think Rivalry should be both allowed and a top contender for Tomohawk's Dream World ability.

Alongside Intimidate and Prankster, Rivalry is such a terrible option that nobody in their right mind would consider it. With 60 Base Attack and no other way to increase his Attack, not even a gimmicky Physical-based Tomohawk would be possible.

 

[Tortferngatr]

...While I personally think that we could just say "Tomohawk's DW ability is unreleased" and include the "really stupid abilities that technically do stuff but are really niche," and then from there allow the standard "bullshit ability" Inner Focus, I'll play this.

However, please remove Unnerve. Pinch berries don't exist yet, Leppa Berry Tropius/Exeggutor are gimmicks, and I propose that anyone who uses Sitrus Berry competitively be sentenced to death by Scizoring squad at dawn. its only real use is stopping Lum Berry-and the only non-hax status move (thus removing Hurricane from considerations) Tomohawk gets is...Yawn.

Also, why is White Smoke banned but not Clear Body? They're the same, right?

Finally, if all other reasoning fails...Big Pecks. Sure Tomo isn't a bird, but it's something. It also makes a small amount of sense, given Tomo is mimicking a bird, unlike several other uncompetitive abilities like Illuminate.

 

[RitterCat]

Inner Focus is a nice standard general ability given to fighting types and also happens to conveniently be shit. So I support Inner Focus

 

[Zebstrika]

Keen Eye and Big Pecks are both pretty useless abilities that might make some sense (they are often seen on other birds).

Unreleased probably will not work because the Dream World tier is something that people do play often.

Intimidate is ability 1 and Prankster is the DW ability or the other way around will eliminate the need for a flavor ability. As long as it isn't released as an event (like Blaziken or the Eeveelutions) it will be compatible with all of its moves except some moves from other events.

 

[ToastTyrant13]

Inner Focus is a nice standard general ability given to fighting types and also happens to conveniently be shit. So I support Inner Focus

Totally seconding this. The fact that Tomohawk looks so calm and focused makes it appear to be perfect for this. But of course...

"no merit whatsoever"

...and there's, what, Fake Out and Iron Head Jirachi? Pfft. This ability sounds like a winner.

Inner Focus

 

[Thorhammer]

Intimidate is ability 1 and Prankster is the DW ability or the other way around will eliminate the need for a flavor ability. As long as it isn't released as an event (like Blaziken or the Eeveelutions) it will be compatible with all of its moves except some moves from other events.

It has already been decided that this will not be the case.

I agree that Rivalry should be permitted and would be a good flavor option. It has no competitive merit, yet fits with its typing. Inner Focus is another good choice, for reasons stated previously, but it seems a bit common and generic, and therefore I would say it is a less preferred ability.

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

If you disagree with the exclusion of any ability on this list, or feel another ability not mentioned deserves to be excluded, feel free to argue so in this thread.

With this statement, I feel that any argument or idea can be given (plus, the fact that this thread is on the subject of flavor should be an OK as well).

So I'll say now that I'm still strongly opposed to throwing another ability on Tomohawk for pure flavor reasons. An ability is a major part of a Pokemon. We have strived to try to stick to the original concepts of all CAPs throughout the project as best we can and I feel a "flavor ability" would be a wasted opportunity.

With saying that, to be blunt, I disagree with the exclusion of all the abilities in that list (this doesn't mean I'm in any ways supportive of stuff like Drizzle or Drought now). Of course, flavor should have something to do with it, so I'm not for most of them listed.

Since I don't see any rules against it, I will actually back competitively viable abilities. I am still interested in some of them which lost to Intimidate and Prankster. Primarily, Poison Heal for reasons given by other members in previous posts.

 

[Bughouse]

Inner Focus has no merit for Tomohawk, since Iron Head Jirachi is not a factor due to priority Roosting, and Inner Focus will not matter when it comes to Fake Out users, since neither Ambipom nor Meinshao pose any threat to Tomohawk with Fake Out in the first place.

Therefore since it has approximately 0 competitive impact, and fits the flavor aspect... I support Inner Focus.

 

[jas61292]

Anyone following my posts in the previous ability threads will know exactly which abilities I want.

Big Pecks, Big Pecks and Big Pecks

It's Flying. And it's fighting. If that doesn't scream BIG PECKS, then I don't know what does. Sure, it may not be a bird, but is is part birdish. And its not like birds are the only creature with pectoralis major. I mean, seriously it just works.

This is what this has all been leading up too, and it is just calling for Big Pecks. If Tomohawk doesn't get Big Pecks, then as far as I am concerned CAP1 will be a complete failure.

So once again, I reiterate: Big Pecks

 

[Oglemi]

I fully back Inner Focus, as that is a rather common flavor ability among the birds, and I don't like Big Pecks, no matter how funny it is.

 

[reachzero]

Inner Focus is clearly competitive. With Inner Focus, Tomohawk actually BEATS SpD Jirachi one-on-one, whereas without it, it will nearly always lose one-on-one. Note that I'm assuming that Jirachi has Body Slam and Iron Head. Is Inner Focus good? Not really. Is it competitive? Definitely. Also, unless there was a mechanics change between DPP and BW, Rivalry boosts the damage done, not the Attack stat. In other words, it boosts the damage done by Special Attacks as well (try spamming Nidoking and you'll see what I mean).

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

To be more in line with Flavor, I wanted to ask this. The list includes abilities with competitive viability in general. What about possible abilities that are competively viable, but not on the CaP itself? I'm looking through the list for those that might fit that category. So far, I can only see Levitate (useless since he's Flying, though it does change things for Roost if it gets in the final movepool). But it would be dumb to give it that one (he has wings, he doesn't need to hover).

 

[Onetwobanana]

Inner Focus is clearly competitive. With Inner Focus, Tomohawk actually BEATS SpD Jirachi one-on-one, whereas without it, it will nearly always lose one-on-one. Note that I'm assuming that Jirachi has Body Slam and Iron Head. Is Inner Focus good? Not really. Is it competitive? Definitely. Also, unless there was a mechanics change between DPP and BW, Rivalry boosts the damage done, not the Attack stat. In other words, it boosts the damage done by Special Attacks as well (try spamming Nidoking and you'll see what I mean).

I could have sworn that Rivalry boosted Attack, but upon further research it appears you're right.

With Rivalry out of the picture, Big Pecks seems to be the best option to me.

 

[Focus]

How about Infiltrator? It is completely inferior as an ability to Intimidate and Prankster, and it just seems more fitting than Big Pecks. Tomohawk doesn't have a beak! Infiltrator is the hidden ability of several flying-types (namely Crobat, Jumpluff, and Ninjask), as well as being the compliment to Whimsicott's Prankster. Tomohawk would be in good company!

Edit: I also love Keen Eye as the third ability. Many random things get it, it is uncompetitive, and it fits the "flavor" of a fighting bird-thing. Also, lol @ Vader's suggestion below!

 

[macle]

Big Peaks and Keen eye are very good choices. I have no problem with those.

Just throwing out tangled feet. With Tomohawk's big ass tail I can see it getting tangled up in its feet very easily.

 

[Raikaria]

Has to be Big Pecks, out of the abilities suggested so far.

However, Defiant might be worthwhile too. It's not like Tomahawk will be making use of a +1 in attack [Because the only stat drop he'll ever eat is Intimidate]. Seeing as he's a Fighting type, it could be used for flavor.

 

[Dogfish44]

A lot of people are going for Tomohawk being a tribe leader in the pokedex flavor section.

I therefore think Friend Guard or Healer would be an appropiate ability.

 

[GlassAbsol]

Since it's not on the list I'm going to vote Inconsistent haha I joke I joke, It seems that Big Pecks, along with being a Quality pun, is a very good choice for Tomo to have as it's Dream World Ability.

 

[Paradox]

It's gotta be Moxie or Big Pecks. Big Pecks is great because Tomo is Flying/Fighting, so it applies to both sides of the pun. Moxie is certainly not competitive on Tomohawk, and the move is pretty much momentum incarnate, building with each turn.

I'd also support Moody. It has the same sort of "momentum" effect as Moxie, and is uncompetitive since it has been banned.

 

[The Other Doug]

What about Early Bird? It fits flavor wise, and it's very non-competitive ability. Unnerve could also fit, considering that some pokemon with Intimidate get it as a dream world ability, such as Arbok & Masquerain.

Other abilities suggested that I like are Keen Eye and Infiltrator, both of them common abilities for Flying types.

 

[GMLW]

Pickpocket

I mean, for God's sake, it already has Prankster as one of its abilities, I don't see why Pickpocket wouldn't work.

 

[v]

White Smoke

He smokes the peace pipe??

 

[Engineer Pikachu]

Supporting Big Pecks for reasons listed by everybody else.

Most birds have this ability, so it fits in with the GF pokemon. It also seems trolly :D

 

[paintseagull]

Gotta say, I don't love Big Pecks. I hate the name and the puns and it is a lame ability. Since this is for flavour, those reasonings count! Tomohawk and pre-Tomohawk (both designs that are in the running) are cooler than that! Because he has such fierce and righteous demeanor, and because fighting types are good versus dark, I think Justified is a great DW ability for Tomohawk.