First Attempt at Competitive in Gen5: Please Help!

[Ziaf999]

I've lurked and read in the forum here for a little while, and I think I have an idea of how team rating works now. Please let me know if anything regarding formatting is off. I don't want it to impede on actual criticisms regarding the team itself. With that being said, I present to you the team I plan to breed for in-game use.

Here's the team "at a glance," as they say:

I find that my play style is one favoring bulky heavy-hitters, seeing as that's how my team plan turned out. The Gyarados and Salamence already exist from my Heart Gold version, and I just finished breeding an amazing Timburr a few days ago, who is now a Level 100 Conkeldurr. The majority of the stats turned out great, but I accidentally got a high Speed IV on the best Egg, so I decided to go with Stone Edge over Payback. Which brings me to the starting point of my...


Team Building Process!

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This is the inspiration behind my decision to build this team. Have you had a Pokemon that you're so proud of, you keep opening your DS just to look at its summary? Conkeldurr made me do this for at least two days. But let's get to the actual useful aspects of the Pokemon. It's a hard hitter, and has great bulk unless it's matched up against unfavorable opponents. I need to have good switch-ins to take care of said opponent, or a means of weakening them before sending him out. However, making a decent defensive core first might make it easier for me to decide exactly which Pokemon I'll use to support my Conkeldurr.

I looked around for Pokemon with a variety of useful resistances in Gen5, and I came across this one. Resisting 11/17 of all Types while also being able to provide Entry Hazards makes it a Pokemon with incredible utility. I decide to put this in.

Gyarados resists both of Ferrothorn's weaknesses: Fire and Fighting. Ferrothorn, in return, resists Gyarados's two weaknesses: Electric and Rock. Gyarados also helps give my team some offensive capabilities. The Gyarados I have in mind is one from my Heart Gold version. It's Jolly with 148 HP / 136 Atk / 224 Spe. I don't remember exactly why the EVs are spread how they are, but I remember it outspeeds Naive Scarftran (not so popular anymore) and Adamant base 90's after a Dragon Dance. I think the Attack EVs were just enough to guarantee a kill on a popular Pokemon at the time. I ran some tests just now to figure out what it was, and +1 LO Waterfall 2HKOs Bold Blissey or Bulky Scizor factoring in Leftovers recovery, and OHKOs Bold Zapdos with Stone Edge if there's Stealth Rock support. The rest of the EVs were put into HP for bulk. These threats aren't relevant in the old way anymore, but this Gyarados would still function fine in this metagame I think. If not, I could start over with another one. I'd like to see what its shortcomings are before I do that though.

Now that my team has a reliable Psychic-resistor (Ferrothorn) who has its own weaknesses covered by a teammate (Gyarados), I could include Conkeldurr.

Adding Conkeldurr opened up a weakness to the Flying Type, so I considered something that could resist that. I was also looking for a Pokemon that would resist a bunch of other Types as well, so I thought of Rotom-H, who would also provide a useful Fire move user for my team. I had a facepalm moment when I realized a few moments later that its typing was changed this generation to one far less useful. Then I looked through the list of probable OU Pokemon for Gen5, and came across Rotom-W, which totally skipped my mind. It gives me a Flying-resistor, and well as useful resistances to Fire to cover for Ferrothorn, and well as a resistance to Ice to add a Dragon type to my team!

I have one somewhat bulky DDMence sitting in my PC in Heart Gold version, unable to be used due to its Uber status, and one MixMence migrated to my White version which I used for breeding purposes. The bulky DDMence is Naughty with an outdated 271 speed (which used to be important to outspeed Pokemon that sat at 270, as well as Scarfed 270's after a Dragon Dance). The MixMence in my White version was migrated before I knew of the absence of certain TMs in White, so it lacks both Outrage and Roost. I plan to give it Stone Edge to surprise some things (although I'm not quite sure what).

To round it off, there's Reuniclus, who gives the team another Fighting-resistor for Ferrothorn, and a Psychic-resistor for Conkeldurr (which I don't think matters much since Psychic is a rare attacking Type). The purpose of this is to act as a hard-hitting Special Attacker, while still being able to tank Physical hits decently. I also looked into other things that could fill this role, like Slowbro or Mew, but Reuniclus hits noticeably harder than either of those, and I plan to give it an EV spread that's completely defensive, and rely on Calm Mind to boost its ability to dish out damage (the Calm Mind build posted in the Reuniclus OU Analysis).

I came to realize switching is very important to this team and entry hazards ruin my day. I needed a spinner. The first Pokemon I thought of was Starmie. I realized that Starmie held all the resistances I found useful in both Reuniclus and Gyarados. It could switch into Fighting Type moves (although not as easily as the two I just mentioned), it could switch into Fire Type moves, it could switch into status inducers, it could blow away entry hazards, and it could check some of the heavy-hitting Dragon Pokemon I have trouble with, like Dragonite and opposing Salamence. I replaced both Reuniclus and Gyarados with Starmie, and freed up a spot on my team for something I needed: a Pokemon I could reliably start a battle with most of the time. I decided to try out Metagross as this Pokemon.

My Team!

Metagross @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Nature: Adamant
- Meteor Mash
- Hammer Arm
- Bullet Punch
- Trick

Most of the time, I'll be starting a battle with this (unless I see my opponent's team has a Pokemon he could lead with that would utterly wreck this 1-on-1). Firing off a Meteor Mash at a Pokemon who doesn't resist it would get the offensive momentum in my favor right away (whether he takes the hit for some odd reason, or if he chooses to switch to take the hit with something else). I don't want Stealth Rock on Metagross because I don't see which Pokemon I would actually be able to start off using Stealth Rock against. I'd rather leave that job to Ferrathorn, who gets more opportunities to pull it off. I was considering Pursuit instead of Trick, but I don't know what Pokemon used as a lead would be hindered by Pursuit. If my opponent saw Metagross somewhere on my team in team preview, he's probably not going to send out a Pokemon who would be scared of Metagross enough to switch out immediately. It could be useful mid- or late-game to pick off weakened opponents, but I see Trick as a greater utility than Pursuit.


Switch Synergy:
vs Fire -

vs Ground -

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Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Nature: Rash
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

With caution, I plan to fire Draco Meteor if I decide the situation calls for it. I won't attempt to bluff a DDMence with this because of the obvious lack in Physical power. I'll try keep it alive longer rather than sacrifice it for massive damage. Salamence, like any other pivot with Intimidate, works well at creating a situation for teammates to set up (Conkeldurr's Bulk Up, Reuniclus's Calm Mind) or spread status (Ferrothorn's Thunder Wave, Rotom-W's Will-O-Wisp).

I considered my max Speed / Sp. Attack Timid Hydreigon over this, for being both faster than Salamence, as well as stronger Specially, but decided against it. I like being able to Intimidate in the middle of a chain of switches while still keeping the threat of firing off a Draco Meteor by surprise. The resistance to Fighting rather than a weakness was another reason, since it seems to be a prevalent offensive Type this generation.


Switch Synergy:
vs Ice -

vs Rock -

vs Dragon -

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Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SpD
Nature: Adamant
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Bulk Up
- Stone Edge

Conkeldurr can punch large holes into the opponents team if I've taken care of his Fighting-resistant Pokemon first (or at least weakened them). I'm very wary of Ghost Pokemon like Gengar and Jellicent, since my team doesn't seem that prepared to deal with them. I'm almost considering not including Conkeldurr (my favorite Gen5 Pokemon), just because of my fear of Ghosts. If you agree that Ghosts will give me trouble, please tell me what you would change.


Switch Synergy:
vs Flying -

vs Psychic -

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Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Nature: Relaxed
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Thunder Wave
- Power Whip

I love that it's a good defensive Pokemon that could actually learn Stealth Rock this generation. That seems to be somewhat rare now. I made the choice of Thunder Wave because most of my team isn't very fast, and the typical Ground Pokemon used to try sponging Thunder Wave wouldn't really be switched into Ferrothorn, in my opinion. I'm not too familiar with Leech Seed tactics, but I expect the opponent to switch once he's seeded, which is when I can fire a Thunder Wave at his switch in. Other than opposing Conkeldurr, I don't see what Ferrothorn switch-in would like being paralyzed, so it seems to be a win-win situation for me. I probably wouldn't fight against whatever he brings in with Ferrothorn, but rather, switch to an appropriate counter to take down the paralyzed Pokemon.


Switch Synergy:
vs Fire -

vs Fighting -

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Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 52 SpD
Nature: Bold
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

I chose to put Volt Switch on Rotom-W over Thunderbolt because the damage isn't too much lower and Rotom-W's low Speed will let my switch-in enter the battle unhindered. I like having the option of whether to let Rotom-W take the hit, or let my switch-in take the hit. For damage output, Hydro Pump does more damage and hits more Types for neutral or Super Effective damage anyway.

^ I actually decided against the above. I noticed that I needed an effective way to hit opponents hard with an Electric attack, and Thunderbolt is far more reliable at doing that than Volt Switch.

The 200 Defense EVs are somewhat arbitrary. There are a bunch of things Rotom-W gets out of the 2HKO range from when investing in Defense, but I couldn't decide which was the most important, so I gave it enough to tank most of them. I plan to decide on how many Defense EVs to invest as I work on this team.

What I noticed is that my team has a Pokemon with Intimidate, one with Will-O-Wisp, and several Pokemon able to take heavy Physical attacks, but no Pokemon who are good at tanking Special attacks. This could pose a problem, but I was considering: how would a Specially Bulky Rotom-W fare?


Switch Synergy:
vs Grass -

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Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Rapid Spin
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Recover

Because switching is so important in this team, a Rapid Spin user is really needed here. Starmie also defensively covers the weaknesses of a few other Pokemon on my team thanks to its Water and Psychic typing, while also being an effective means of disposing of Salamences and Dragonites (assuming I switch in safely). Starmie being walled by Water types isn't an issue imo, since I have Rotom-W if I need an Electric attack (Gyarados and such) or Ferrothorn if I need a Grass attack (Jellicent and such). Starmie covers at least one weakness for everything on my team other than Rotom-W, with whom it shares the weakness to Grass.


Switch Synergy:
vs Grass -

vs Electric -

vs Bug -

vs Ghost -

vs Dark -

Hide

I took these out.

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 148 HP / 136 Atk / 224 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Dance

Early game, I plan to bring it in to threaten to Dragon Dance so the opponent switches to an appropriate counter (which I should be able to guess from team preview). If it's something Gyarados can hit hard without Dragon Dance, I'll do just that, and not waste my time dancing. If Gyarados will do nothing to the expected counter, I'll switch to my Salamence to blast it with a powerful move, or send in Rotom-W to cripple it, or set up Stealth Rocks with Ferrothorn.

Mid game or late game, if I feel as though my opponent's Gyarados counters are sufficiently weakened, I might attempt to use Dragon Dance, depending on the Pokemon Gyarados is faced with. The last time I played (during 4th Gen), I found feigning Dragon Dances to be incredibly powerful, and a simple choice of move would often throw the opponent off a lot. I don't know how strong this holds true now, but I plan to try it.


Switch Synergy:
vs Electric -

vs Rock -

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Reuniclus @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Nature: Bold
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Psychic
- Focus Blast

Another Fighting-resistor for the team, which also has the ability to dish out powerful Special Attacks. It can take physical hits fairly well with its bulk, and set up Calm Mind easily. I don't like that opposing Psychic types wall it so easily though.


Switch Synergy:
vs Bug -

vs Dark -

vs Ghost -

So that's it. Please let me know what you think works for the team and what you think doesn't, and I'll gladly accept any form of criticism that helps. Thank you.

 

[Ziaf999]

Offensive Threats

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Aerodactyl - Conkeldurr can come in and win 1-on-1 while taking hardly any damage, due to Drain/Mach Punch. Aero lacks reliable Flying STAB, and is unable to Roost safely against Conkeldurr. Rotom-W can come in and Pain Split, which hurts Aero, or the switch-in if the opponent chooses to switch. Or it could just attack.

Archeops - Rotom-W can switch in fairly easily and threaten to KO with even Volt Switch. To reliably switch in to Archeops, I Rotom-W needed the extra Defense investment. If I mainly focused on HP and SpA, a combination of Flying Gem-boosted Acrobatics followed by Stone Edge is a likely 2HKO.

Azelf - Switch to Gyarados. If the opponent knows his Azelf won't OHKO Gyarados, he'll switch to his counter to avoid a Dragon Dance wreckage. I doubt the he would Taunt, risking taking major damage from an attack, but it's fine if he does. I planned on attacking with Gyarados or switching regardless of his move.

Bisharp - Conkeldurr can beat it 1-on-1 if he hasn't Swords Danced yet. Breaking the Substitute isn't a problem.

Breloom - This is a tough one. If Starmie can come in without falling asleep while Breloom lacks a Substitute, Ice Beam would OHKO. Otherwise, my team is too slow to play around the Spore.

Chandelure - Rotom-W can take it down easily if it doesn't have Substitute up. If it does have Substitute, then break it with Volt Switch, and bring Salamence or Gyarados.

Cobalion - Reuniclus should be able to handle both the Physical and Special sets. If Cobalion's HP is low enough, Conkeldurr can Mach Punch it. If Cobalion hasn't set up yet, Conkeldurr can tank a hit, then Drain Punch it.

Conkeldurr - Reuniclus tanks its hits fairly well, and can hit Conkeldurr's weaker side with Psychic. If I'm confident the opposing Conkeldurr doesn't pack Stone Edge, I could switch in Gyarados or Salamence too.

Darmanitan - This thing hits so hard. Despite having three Fire-resistrors, two of whom have Intimidate, I still take a large chunk of damage from it. My best bet here is either Gyarados or Rotom-W, but the former needs to be wary of Rock Slide. I think Gyarados would bait a Rock Slide from Darmanitan effectively enough to let me switch in Conkeldurr. The opponent would probably have a hard time resisting the opportunity to outspeed my Gyarados and take it down for good with a SE move.

Deoxys-S - This Pokemon ticks me off. It always gets its job done. I could attack it with Metagross, I guess. It still fulfills its purpose for the opponent's team.

Dragonite - If I bring Starmie in safely, I can threaten to Ice Beam, then Spin or Recover as as switches out

Druddigon - What does this Pokemon use? I guess Ferrothorn beats it since it wouldn't run Fire moves (low SpA, and Fire Fang is outclassed by its other options for its moveset).

Eelektross - I'd probably try to pivot in Reuniclus safely, then Calm Mind up while Recovering. He'll be in OHKO range for Psychic after a few LO recoils.

Electivire - Set up with Reuniclus's Calm Mind.

Emboar - Rotom-W can take its attacks well, and threaten to KO with Hydro Pump. I'll probably replace Will-O-Wisp with Thunder Wave, since it will prove useful to be able to paralyze his switch-in rather than fire off Hydro Pump. He probably wouldn't bring in a Ground type predicting a Hydro Pump.

Empoleon - Rotom-W tanks its attacks well, but sadly, he's forced to switch out after a Volt Switch. I guess Reuniclus could threaten to KO with Focus Blastafter that, or use Calm Mind.

Espeon - I can attack it with Metagross or Starmie safely. There's not much I could do to prevent the screens from going up, which is unfortunate.

Escavalier - Gyarados does well against it. I can rack up some damage, or Dragon Dance if the opponent's would-be counters are weakened. Salamence can take a hit from Excavalier without too much harm too, and threaten to OHKO back. Conkeldurr can drain some HP too.

Excadrill - Conkeldurr's Mach Punch will KO if it has prior damage (like when it set up its Swords Dance), or Rotom-W can survive a Rock Slide and OHKO with Hydro Pump.

Gengar - It looks like Substitute is pretty big on Gengar this generation. I could bring in Metagross and keep attacking, but that's not a very effective way to deal with it. What do I do against SubGengars?

Golurk - Usually bring in Rotom-W and use Hydro Pump. If he's locked into Stone Edge, Ferrothorn can take him down. If he's locked into anything else, Salamence or Gyarados can handle him.

Gyarados - Bring in Rotom-W and threaten to use an Electric attack. I'd probably hit his switch-in with Will-O-Wisp if I keep that. Otherwise, I'd fire off a Hydro Pump as Gyarados switches out.

Haxorus - Send in Ferrothorn and Thunder Wave it. Then it becomes far easier for anyone else to kill.

Heatran - Rotom-W's should take care of it by threatening to Hydro Pump. I probably wouldn't take any risks here, and surely use Hydro Pump, just in case he's carrying Hidden Power Grass, which is a 2HKO with Life Orb.

Heracross - Reuniclus could tank a hit then use Psychic. Gyarados works too if the Heracross chooses to lock itself into anything other than Stone Edge.

Hydreigon - Depending on what I predict he's using, I send in Rotom-W or Ferrothorn to cripple it with Thunder Wave. If I have a good idea he's not Choiced, then I won't risk that. Dark Pulse won't 2HKO Gyarados, so I could bring him in. If I mispredict and something gets wrecked by Draco Meteor, Conkeldurr can fight Hydreigon without fear.

Infernape - Bring in Rotom-W and threaten to use Hydro Pump. Maybe hit the switch-in with status if I know he doesn't have a status absorber ready.

Jirachi - Rotom-W can tank its attacks well, but nothing other than burn will provide consistent damage against Jirachi. I can scout a few of Jirachi's moves with Rotom-W to determine which set it is, then send in Gyarados to Earthquake if it's lacking an Electric move, or Ferrothorn to Leech Seed it if it's lacking a Fire move.

Jolteon - Ferrothorn would beat it 1-on-1 if it wants to fight. Other than that, Jolteon gets into KO range for Conkeldurr's Mach Punch easily due to its low physical bulk. Reuniclus can try to set up too. I can't do much about it passing boosts though. The problem is similar to the one I had with Espeon.

Kingdra - Ferrothorn tanks it well. Power Whip hits hard, but I can also opt to paralyze it.

Krookodile - Conkeldurr can take it down with ease. Rotom-W would take some damage in the process, but he can too. Ferrothorn can take most of its attacks easily and inflict heavy damage back.

Kyurem - Conkeldurr hits it hard, or KO it if it's already at low enough HP. Ferrothorn would be able to take its attacks easily and cripple it with Thunder Wave.

Landorus - Rotom-W should be able to take its hits fairly easily, and hit back hard with Hydro Pump.

Latios - Not sure what I would do here. I'd try to paralyze it with Rotom-W for someone else like Metagross or Salamence to KO it. Or try to fight it head on with Metagross or Starmie.

Lilligant - My team is pretty weak to sun. My plan would be to try paralyzing Lilligant, but it has Super Effective moves on both Rotom-W and Ferrothorn, with Giga Drain or Hidden Power Fire.

Lucario - Send in Gyarados, who was trained to outspeed Lucario's Speed tier specifically. Dragon Dance instead of Earthquake, because the opponent will probably send in a Earthquake-resistant Pokemon regardless.

Machamp - Bring in Reuniclus and use Psychic.

Magnezone - Ferrothorn gets eaten by this since I opted not to use Shed Shell. Other than that, Gyarados, Salamence, Conkeldurr and Reuniclus all KO it easily.

Mamoswine - Rotom-W takes its attacks easily, and threatens it with Super Effective Hydro Pump. Conkeldurr's punches hit it hard too.

Metagross - Ferrothorn tanks its attacks easily, and cripples it with Thunder Wave.

Mienshao - Reuniclus does a good job of taking the Hi Jump Kick, then fightingback with Psychic.

Reuniclus - Metagross makes short work of it with STAB Meteor Punches.

Roserade - Not much can be done about the Spikes or Toxic Spikes (I wanted to fit a Spinner, but couldn't decide what would fit). Reuniclus hurts Roserade with Psychic, unless it's put to sleep. If I don't have Reuniclus in a healthy state, I'd send in Salamence and switch to Gyarados to scout what Hidden Power it has, then fight it according to that.

Salamence - Gyarados can take anything other than Draco Meteor fairly well, and do heavy damage back.

Sawsbuck - Salamence does a good job of resisting most of Sawsbuck's attacks, while reducing the power even more with Intimidate. Conkeldurr can hit hard since Sawsbubk's physical bulk is pretty weak.

Scizor - Gyarados walls it. Salamence could take Bullet Punch well if it comes in with Intimidate. Rotom-W doesn't do as great a job anymore, but will often scare away Scisor by threatening to Will-O-Wisp it with more Speed (even though my Rotom-W in particular is slower than most Scizors).

Scrafty - Conkeldurr does a good job resisting its attacks, as well as threatening to hit it hard.

Seismitoad - Ferrothorn scares it aware easily.

Serperior - I don't think this has its Dream World ability yet, and without it, it's pretty bad.

Shaymin - Send out Salamence to see if Shaymin is scared off. If it's not scared off, then it has Hidden Power Ice and I can beat it up with Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball if I run that over Power Whip.

Sigilyph - Why doesn't this use Psychic? Conkeldurr can beat a variant that lacks Psychic fairly easily.

Smeargle - I can send out Conkeldurr to use Mach Punch if it doesn't have a Substitute up. If it has a Substitute up, I can send in Rotom-W to put him in a false sense of security. He'll up his stats as I use Volt Switch, breaking his Substitute and then scare him away with Conkeldurr.

Starmie - Ferrothorn takes its attacks pretty easily and threatens to hit back hard.

Terrakion - Conkeldurr can finish it off with a Fighting-type move. If Terrakion has used Close Combat at least once, Mach Punch will hurt a lot. If I can predict a Stone Edge, Conkeldurr can be brought in easily.

Thundurus - I don't have anything against this once it uses Nasty Plot. If its HP is low enough, Starmie can revenge kill it with Ice Beam.

Togekiss - Rotom-W can take several hits even if Parahax'd lots of times. It resists pretty much everything, and can either cripple Togekiss, or do a good amount of damage to it.

Tornadus - Rotom-W resists its STAB and can hit back with its own Super Effective one, or cripple it with Thunder Wave.

Tyranitar - Conkeldurr's Mach Punch, Rotom-W's Hydro Pump, Ferrothorn's Power Whip (unlikely since I'm going to be too scared of Flamethrower), Salamence's Earthquake for a finisher, Gyarados's Waterfall for a finisher.

Venusaur - I'm weak to it since it's always supported by sunlight, but otherwise, I'd take it down with Salamence or Metagross. Or even Starmie if Venusaur has prior damage (and if for some strange reason there's no sun).

Victini - Rotom-W can use Hydro Pump, Salamence can use Earthquake or Stone Edge.

Virizion - Metagross can take it down without too much difficulty. Starmie too if it's in KO range.

Volcarona - Salamence resists both of its STAB moves, while having moves Super Effective against Volcarona. Rotom-W can also Hydro Pump it if it hasn't used Quiver Dance to boost Bug Buzz yet.

Weavile - Conkeldurr can take it down with Mach Punch.

Zoroark - Once I'm aware it's actually Zoroark, I can use Conkeldurr to take it down.

 

[mach3]

lead azelf just taunts gyara (like a ton of other leads do). This is why it is not smart to use a set-up-sweeper as your lead. Especially so because you don't know what scarfers they have. But I am curious, who are you leading with? Because other than ferra, none of these guys lead well at all.

Also, as little as you invested into attack, while at the same time investing so much in speed and lacking rest, this means that your gyra will not be hitting hard at ALL after a DD. Just for example, a max/max spiritomb doesn't even take 80% max damage from a DD waterfall. I would either lose the speed and put it into bulk (as well as replacing sedge or eq with rest), or i would take out the hp evs, and max out his attack.

Also, the majority of mences DO carry dmeteor so...

The problem with this team is it is WAY to over-reliant on a few pokes to tank all of the teams hits. This team simply can't take repeated switch-in hits due to the lack of hp recovery and the forth-mentioned over-reliance on certain walls. Stealth rocks sting just because of how many times this team will be switching, but if the opponent manages to get spikes down, then you are in trouble big-time simply due to ferrathorn's inability to continuoulsy take spikes and rock damage. And once thorn goes down, the opponent only needs to break rotom.

 

[Griff]

lead azelf just taunts gyara (like a ton of other leads do). This is why it is not smart to use a set-up-sweeper as your lead. Especially so because you don't know what scarfers they have. But I am curious, who are you leading with? Because other than ferra, none of these guys lead well at all.
Well, he might not lead with gyara everytime, there is no SET lead. You can change it.
Also, as little as you invested into attack, while at the same time investing so much in speed and lacking rest, this means that your gyra will not be hitting hard at ALL after a DD. Just for example, a max/max spiritomb doesn't even take 80% max damage from a DD waterfall. I would either lose the speed and put it into bulk (as well as replacing sedge or eq with rest), or i would take out the hp evs, and max out his attack.

Also, the majority of mences DO carry dmeteor so...

The problem with this team is it is WAY to over-reliant on a few pokes to tank all of the teams hits. This team simply can't take repeated switch-in hits due to the lack of hp recovery and the forth-mentioned over-reliance on certain walls. Stealth rocks sting just because of how many times this team will be switching, but if the opponent manages to get spikes down, then you are in trouble big-time simply due to ferrathorn's inability to continuoulsy take spikes and rock damage. And once thorn goes down, the opponent only needs to break rotom.

Answer in bold.
Ziaf999, on gyarados, since you have a lot of speed invested change him from Jolly, to Adamant.

 

[King of Slack]

No rapid spin??

 

[Ziaf999]

lead azelf just taunts gyara (like a ton of other leads do). This is why it is not smart to use a set-up-sweeper as your lead. Especially so because you don't know what scarfers they have. But I am curious, who are you leading with? Because other than ferra, none of these guys lead well at all.

Also, as little as you invested into attack, while at the same time investing so much in speed and lacking rest, this means that your gyra will not be hitting hard at ALL after a DD. Just for example, a max/max spiritomb doesn't even take 80% max damage from a DD waterfall. I would either lose the speed and put it into bulk (as well as replacing sedge or eq with rest), or i would take out the hp evs, and max out his attack.

Also, the majority of mences DO carry dmeteor so...

The problem with this team is it is WAY to over-reliant on a few pokes to tank all of the teams hits. This team simply can't take repeated switch-in hits due to the lack of hp recovery and the forth-mentioned over-reliance on certain walls. Stealth rocks sting just because of how many times this team will be switching, but if the opponent manages to get spikes down, then you are in trouble big-time simply due to ferrathorn's inability to continuoulsy take spikes and rock damage. And once thorn goes down, the opponent only needs to break rotom.

Thanks for replying!

Hmm, I don't have a clearly defined lead, and I planned on choosing depending on what I predict will be my opponent's lead. That's probably a problem, and I should have something that serves the lead role most of the time. After reading over what you said, I'm considering a Metagross to act as my lead, since its weaknesses are covered by a lot of other Pokemon on my team. I would probably use him without Stealth Rock, for added coverage in defeating the opponent's lead, and instead, put up my Rocks with Ferrothorn later on.

The low attack on Gyarados will probably pose problems for me. Do you think I could keep its EV spread as is, and convert to a Sleep Talker, or would I need to breed another one?

On the topic of opposing Draco Meteor Salamence: My team also has issues with other powerful Dragon Types like Dragonite and Hydreigon (to some extent). I'd like to make a replacement to my team that is effective at dealing with all of these, but I don't see any Pokemon that can do that. Wall-breaking seems to be very effective this generation, and Salamence and Dragonite cause some problems.

Looking at it, I guess it is pretty prone to breaking apart when faced with entry hazards. I used to have a spinner Forrtress on my team back in generation 4, but I didn't make room for a spinner in this team. I don't want to replace Ferrothorn, but a spinner would really help this team.

A Starmie can spin or handle Dragonite/Salamence well (if it survives their attack on the switch-in). I'll run some calcs to see if there's a way to have decent survivability from their attacks, while still being fast enough to outspeed them for the Ice Beam KO.

 

[Griff]

No rapid spin??

Nothing on his team ATM can learn Rapid Spin.

 

[Ziaf999]

Answer in bold.
Ziaf999, on gyarados, since you have a lot of speed invested change him from Jolly, to Adamant.

I plan to rebreed a Magicarp if I find that this Gyarados is letting me down. It's a Level 100 already, so I can't really change this one's anything. I'm probably going to make the next one Adamant, and a Rest Talker to absorb the "Sleep" status.

Also, even though I can switch the Pokemon I lead with, I kind of see the problem. I don't have any Pokemon that does it well. I think a Metagross would work, but I have to decide first what kind of Metagross I'm going to use.

Nothing on his team ATM can learn Rapid Spin.

I'm considering adding a Starmie in place of maybe Reuniclus.

 

[Griff]

I plan to rebreed a Magicarp if I find that this Gyarados is letting me down. It's a Level 100 already, so I can't really change this one's anything. I'm probably going to make the next one Adamant, and a Rest Talker to absorb the "Sleep" status.

Also, even though I can switch the Pokemon I lead with, I kind of see the problem. I don't have any Pokemon that does it well. I think a Metagross would work, but I have to decide first what kind of Metagross I'm going to use.



I'm considering adding a Starmie in place of maybe Reuniclus.

First, i suggest using sav, it savs time, also why metagross? I mean why? If it's because of priority scizor is better.
Reuniclus is great. :)

 

[Ziaf999]

First, i suggest using sav, it savs time, also why metagross? I mean why? If it's because of priority scizor is better.
Reuniclus is great. :)

Metagross works well as a choice to start the battle with (something my teams lacks right now), and hits much harder with Meteor Mash than Scizor would hope to with one of his attacks. It's also a lot bulkier. Do you think my team needs another priority attacker? :confused:

 

[Griff]

Metagross works well as a choice to start the battle with (something my teams lacks right now), and hits much harder with Meteor Mash than Scizor would hope to with one of his attacks. It's also a lot bulkier. Do you think my team needs another priority attacker? :confused:

Let's take a look.
Meta is more bulky, yes, but dosen't get a good attack boosting move, for sweeping, and also, dosen't have technician, therefore, out classed.

 

[Ziaf999]

Should I use a bulky Starmie to survive longer (with some Speed to outpace certain important things), or a fast Starmie with high Special Attack to be a threat on its own?
I was considering the former, but I looked at the analysis for 5th generation Starmie in OU, and they all recommend Timid with max Speed and max Sp. Attack.

 

[Snivy]

I plan to rebreed a Magicarp if I find that this Gyarados is letting me down. It's a Level 100 already, so I can't really change this one's anything. I'm probably going to make the next one Adamant, and a Rest Talker to absorb the "Sleep" status.

Also, even though I can switch the Pokemon I lead with, I kind of see the problem. I don't have any Pokemon that does it well. I think a Metagross would work, but I have to decide first what kind of Metagross I'm going to use.



I'm considering adding a Starmie in place of maybe Reuniclus.

You know that you can EV train lv.100s now. Just give them the stat reducing berries since EVs are now applied directly after battle not when leveling up.

 

[Griff]

You know that you can EV train lv.100s now. Just give them the stat reducing berries since EVs are now applied directly after battle not when leveling up.

He doesn't use AR apparently, and those are only available by DW.

 

[Ziaf999]

You know that you can EV train lv.100s now. Just give them the stat reducing berries since EVs are now applied directly after battle not when leveling up.

You gain EVs even when no EXP is gained now?! I can use a bunch of berries in my Heart Gold, transfer the Gyarados and Starmie over, then EV train them in White at Level 100? I don't want to try it only to find that I completely ruined their EV training. If this actually works, that's wonderful!

 

[mach3]

yes, there are berries from hoenn that do that, your stats just reset at the end of the battle. Also, this team does actually kinda need a spinner just because of how much it will switch if it wants to be effective. I suggest replacing recover for rapid spin on starmie, it will save your life one day. Also, CB meta has a much more powerful STAB steel move its true, as well as more bulk. So scizor does not totally outclass it. However, i would suggest revising the team:

First off (and this will sound crazy) to take some of the pressure off rotom-w (seriously, this guy is single handedly preventing this team from losing to like half the pokes in the game), i would reccomend using skarmory>ferrathorn. This makes it so that you have a fighting neutrality with great bulk thus not testing your luck that your opponent won't predict the rotom switch from thorn. As well, skarm deals with exadrill so that your rotom won't have to take the beating before killing it. Also, run spikes on skarmory (on ferra if you wish to keep him) because of the multiple instances it can be used to stack up. Perhaps make your metagross a lum lead with rocks? But yeah, skarm will HELP trust me.

also @GRIFF, yeah lol forgot this was wifi.

 

[Ziaf999]

yes, there are berries from hoenn that do that, your stats just reset at the end of the battle. Also, this team does actually kinda need a spinner just because of how much it will switch if it wants to be effective. I suggest replacing recover for rapid spin on starmie, it will save your life one day. Also, CB meta has a much more powerful STAB steel move its true, as well as more bulk. So scizor does not totally outclass it. However, i would suggest revising the team:

First off (and this will sound crazy) to take some of the pressure off rotom-w (seriously, this guy is single handedly preventing this team from losing to like half the pokes in the game), i would reccomend using skarmory>ferrathorn. This makes it so that you have a fighting neutrality with great bulk thus not testing your luck that your opponent won't predict the rotom switch from thorn. As well, skarm deals with exadrill so that your rotom won't have to take the beating before killing it. Also, run spikes on skarmory (on ferra if you wish to keep him) because of the multiple instances it can be used to stack up. Perhaps make your metagross a lum lead with rocks? But yeah, skarm will HELP trust me.

also @GRIFF, yeah lol forgot this was wifi.

I've been playing this on PO for the last hour, and I found that I have a huge weakness to Nasty Plot Thunderus. Ferrothorn is the only Electric resistance on my team, and it doesn't do anything to get around Thunderus. Even though my Thundurus problem is bad as things stand currently, adding another Pokemon who gets torn apart by Thundurus will make things worse. I want to test Skarmory with Spikes as you suggested (while giving Stealth Rock to Metagross), but unless I add a reliable Thunderus counter first, I can't do that.
Starmie can revenge kill a weakened Thundurus with Ice Beam, but it doesn't function as a counter. On top of that, if Starmie's already dead, the rest of the rest of the team gets torn apart, as I said.

Here are some counters to Thundurus that I'm considering making room for:
1. Blissey (I'm not a big fan of this. It may turn out to be effective, but I have a deep loathing of this Pokemon)
2. Porygon2 (This could be fun. Trace his Prankster, then fire a priority Thunder Wave at him. It fails if he Taunts me first though)
3. Latios or Latias, both of whom resist Thunderbolt. A +2 Thunderbolt is a guaranteed 2HKO on Latios though, so he's not a safe switch-in. Latias can barely survive two +2 Thunderbolts, so Stealth Rocks or prior damage mess up her ability to work as a counter (she won't get time to Recover since Thunderus is faster). They both work better to revenge kill Thunderus, not serve as direct counters.
4. Something with Choice Scarf that can tank Thunderus's +2 Thunderbolt, Hidden Power, or Focus Blast.

 

[mach3]

Don't worry TOO much about thunderous in the long term because soon it will be banned (it is in its last suspect test round and only needs a simple majority and then its uber.

the lati twins WILL NOT WORK against many thunderous because they carry hp ice.

this is gonna sound crazy but choice scarf exadrill can kill thunder, and can stop an opposing sandstorm's team's exadrill by outspeeding and killing. Just make sure it has EQ, brick break, rock slide, and then return/x-scizor. adamant nature.

or you could run CB aerodactyl...
or (and this is even crazier, but i did it to success on one of my troll teams), you could run LO seaking w. lightning rod. You see, you bring in skarm on the thunderous NP, and switch to seaking on the impediding tbolt. You get a special attack boost from it and take no damage, then you can laugh at its hidden powers, and kill it with a boosted LO ice beam. Also, seaking has enough bulk to take a scarf terrakion's ccbat, and can 1-shot no defense/hp latios with megahorn given a few evs. And in the rain, if seaking can get a lightning rod boost, then its +1 rain boosted STAB LO hpump 1-shots anything that doesn't resist it and of course chancy blissey

 

[Griff]

Don't worry TOO much about thunderous in the long term because soon it will be banned (it is in its last suspect test round and only needs a simple majority and then its uber.

the lati twins WILL NOT WORK against many thunderous because they carry hp ice.

this is gonna sound crazy but choice scarf exadrill can kill thunder, and can stop an opposing sandstorm's team's exadrill by outspeeding and killing. Just make sure it has EQ, brick break, rock slide, and then return/x-scizor. adamant nature.

or you could run CB aerodactyl...
or (and this is even crazier, but i did it to success on one of my troll teams), you could run LO seaking w. lightning rod. You see, you bring in skarm on the thunderous NP, and switch to seaking on the impediding tbolt. You get a special attack boost from it and take no damage, then you can laugh at its hidden powers, and kill it with a boosted LO ice beam. Also, seaking has enough bulk to take a scarf terrakion's ccbat, and can 1-shot no defense/hp latios with megahorn given a few evs. And in the rain, if seaking can get a lightning rod boost, then its +1 rain boosted STAB LO hpump 1-shots anything that doesn't resist it and of course chancy blissey

HP ice unboosted 2hkoes latios, which can kill with specs,
ROFl at aero and seaking in OU, for a casual game why not but yeah.

 

[mach3]

Hey, i can understand aerodactyl, but don't diss mah seaking lol.

Also, where is wil-o-wisp on rotom? I mean, its bulky rotom and he doesnt have wil-o-wisp? Is this the apocalypse or something?

 

[Ziaf999]

I like Thunder Wave on Rotom-W. It's not meant to switch in and paralyze a Pokemon (which is how Burn is usually used). I come in on something that doesn't like fighting against Rotom-W, then Thunder Wave as it switches out. It's highly unlikely that the switch in will be Ground, so Thunder Wave goes off with success. If I notice during testing that I regret not having Will-o-Wisp on Rotom-W, then I'll consider adding it, but I haven't really felt that way. Is there anything in particular you think I'll have problems with if I lack Will-o-Wisp?

 

[mach3]

Think is, wil-o-wisp ALL physical attackers, but twave only stops fast ones, not slow ones. Perhaps you can run dual staus? It just seems like such a waste of one of the best moves in the game. But if its not your jar of jam, well then you should probably switch to liking grape jelly.