Screw mainstream, 4th gen heroes are where its at (with updates)

Acatia

Acatia

Hey there smogon,

It's me Acatia, back again with a 3rd team (ok granted you in all likelyness have no clue who I am I'll just keep going)
My old Mienshao/Heatran/Milotic/Tangrowth/Latias/Ditto team has been working wonders, but now's time to bring a new crew ahead.


Side Note
I TRY to be as original as possible, hense why I'll always avoid very common stuff like Ferrothorn or Blissey, so keep that in mind when you go and ask why I don't have a Multi Scale Dragonite or a Bulk Up Conkeldurr and that kind of stuff.


The ever so loved "team preview"
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Inorite!!11! no 5th gen members (im actually a little surprised)
Told ya there'd be "forgotten heroes" around here :D

The Strategy meeting, got your game face on?


Infernape.png

Name: Asuka
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-Swords Dance
-Blaze Kick / Fire Punch
-Mach Punch / Close Combat
-Thunder Punch / Rock Slide

Had to be redone as SD Iron Fist set isn't possible
Alright, some tweaking around later Asuka would now be legit. Now that Iron Fist no longer is an option (I call bullshit game freak), Blaze Kick could potentially replace Fire Punch. Kick has 10 more BP and an added Crit rate at the cost of a 90 accuracy, that should probly not be too bad (in the VERY worst case I could use a Wide Lens, but it shouldn't be an issue right?). SD Mach Punch still trumps the raw output of Close Combat, preventing Scarf users from trying to ruin my sweep. The last "anti flyer" slot is up for grabs, Rock Slide for the likes of Volcarona which are sadly common, or Thunder Punch for water variants ... which are understandably everywhere. Both have their lil added effects which I probly won't ever get cuz Lady Luck hates my living guts.


latios-latias.jpg

Name: Azure Wing
Item: Choice Spec
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Hp / 252 Sp.A / 252 Spe
-Dragon Pulse
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power Fire
-Surf

Following up Asuka, I figured I might as well pile on the type synergy right away, so what resists psychic/ground/water/flying moves? How about a Lati@s twin (ok, not backing up the flying weakness but w/e). It was very difficult to decide on which one I wanted to keep though but as shown later, I could use a bit of offencive power. Specs Latios is just deadly. HP fire rounds up the coverage issues the other moves might have had, although Dragon Pulse is generally used (what a surprise). I had thought about Psyshock in case of Blissey/Evo Chancey, but I'll leave that to Asuka for now.


Bronzong.gif

Name: HellsBells
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Relaxed
EVs: 252 Hp / 152 Atk / 8 Def / 96 SpD
-Stealth Rock
-Gyro Ball
-Earthquake
-Hidden Power Ice

Following the same train of thoughts, to pick up for my remaining Dragon and flying weaknesses, a steel type was in order. I had mixed feelings between Bronzong or Registeel. In the end I did take the levitating path but its still not set in stone.
Update: Changed his moveset due to Swampert's departure. That being said, SR became more of a necessity on the bells, and since it would be dumb to run only 1 screen, full tanking mode comes in as a full time dragon counter now.


_Vaporeon__by_Sprinkling_stars.jpg

Name: Undine / Melusine
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Nature: Bold
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
-Wish
-Protect
-Scald
-Toxic / Ice Beam

Whats the problem with tankish pokemons, a bunch of them have no self recovery. Let this be a blessing or a curse is up in the air, but Wish support does come in handy on top of not being limited to said tank. As I've said before, I'm fully aware of how a Blissey's Wish would heal more, but i don't like that kind of poke**** that hangs on every team or so. Melusine (probly gonna go with that)'s wishes heal for a lot anyway, and she's not afraid to step in on Bells' only fire weakness. Toxic probly serves a greater team porpose to Ice Beam, it might be counter productive to Scald, but I see it as a pain to my opponent regardless of which status I inflict anyway. The only "problem" this could lead to would be a Water Absorber, but I'd toxic it instead so its really not that bad an issue.


shaymin2.png

Name: Flower Girl (yay for catchable events instead of handouts)
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 Sp.A / 4 Sp.D / 252 Spe
-Seed Flare
-Earth Power
-Hidden Power Fire
-Rest

Update: Since Swampert was too type redundant and opened a fairly big opening for Ferrothorn (primarly, there aren't many other as common grass types, ... well bloody Sub/Punch Breloom). Shaymin comes around to save the day. Her Grass type allows to pair with Latios in covering the electric weakness, and her ability makes TWave abusers meaningless. She also packs a fair punch so the coverage should be self explanary (picking HP fire for Ferro and not Ice for Gliscor based on popularity). Oh and cool Leech Seed immunity girl.


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Name: FlippinJin
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 Def
-Fake Out
-Mach Punch
-Sucker Punch / Bullet Punch
-Rapid Spin

Practicly a god sent messenger to my "wish I had priority/spin support" request comes lil Jin(ok I had Ambipom in mind but my bud brought this lil guy up)! His sheer amount of Priority is amazing allowing for a maximum amount of hp and atk investments. Sucker and Bullet both have their merits, and while Bullet has the advantage of hitting every time, Sucker lets me not get walled by Ghosts. Besides Steel has redundancy coverage issues with Fighting so its not TOO bad, right?

Discussion Open!!
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Don't use Sucker Punch on Hitmontop, it's unreliable as a priority move when facing tanks or stallers who are probably going to set up. As you said, Bullet Punch is a better choice.
For your Infernape's Drain Punch/Mach Punch problem it all depends on how you use your Infernape. If Infernape is often coming back late in them game to sweep, then Drain Punch should be used to prolong your lifespan. If you are more focused on quick sweeps and not staying in for too long, Mach Punch + Swords Dance would be better
 
I actually prefered Bullet over Sucker, they both have their benefits, but a ghost type will sit on top of my Hitmontop for a nap, of course Sucker won't help much should I be stuck against a sub Gengar or about any tank variation of Duskclops/noir. but Bullet Punch doesn't catch a whole lot more then Mach Punch already does besides neutral on part flying types (implying we're not talking about Thundurus/Zapdos/Volcarona)

Infernape is likely gonna come in after Latios has dented some opponents already, either that or if I really have a golden opportunity to switch in early, like say on a bug or grass move.

My biggest concern atm is my common grass weakness between Vaporeon and Swampert. I don't wanna change Vaporeon cuz other Wish passers would mean stuff like Blissey (which is a huge no), Jirachi (hardcore type redundancy with Bronzong) and Umbreon (not liking today's heavy fighting/bug metagame).
On the other way around, changing Swampert could be a possibility, but with what, Gliscor? Jolteon? I'm really unsure at this point.
 
As you mentioned, two of your main walls are weak to Grass, and with practically every team using Ferrothorn that becomes a problem. To remedy this, I'd consider adding a Grass type of your own over Swampert. Grass completes your FWG core and gives you the electric resist you want, but (obviously) isn't Grass weak. In addition, your team already covers Grass's weaknesses pretty well. It does give you another Flying weakness, but Shaymin actually handles Flying type pretty well. Anyways, the only really common Flying-type move is Acrobatics on Gliscor, and you destroy him with HP Ice. I'd recommend standard Shaymin:
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Shaymin@Leftovers
Timid Nature, 252SpA, 4SpD, 252Spe
Seed Flare
Earth Power
HP Ice/Fire
Rest

This Shaymin packs a punch, but still has enough bulk to effectively use the Rest/Natural Cure combo thanks to her 100/100/100 defenses. Seed Flare's nifty SpD drop lets her handle even dedicated Special Walls with a bit of luck, while Earth Power nails Heatran and other Fires trying to ruin your fun. The Hidden Power is up to you. I usually prefer HP fire due to Ferrothorn's prevalence, but HP Ice lets you outspeed and KO those annoying fliers, most notably Gliscor. Rest rounds the set out, and lets you regain all your health and come back to the fight later.

Obviously, without Swampert, you'll want to give someone else Stealth Rocks. Bronzong is the most ideal candidate; I'd give him a set that looks like this:
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Bronzong@Leftovers
Relaxed nature, 252HP, 152Att, 8Def, 96SpD ll 0 Spe IVs
Stealth Rocks
Gyro Ball
Earthquake
Explosion/Toxic/HP Ice

You already know what the first three moves are for, since you have them on your team now. In the last slot, I'd use Explosion. Although it sacrifices Bronzong and was nerfed this generation, it's still a powerful move that should allow you to KO a frail sweeper who managed to set up on you. Steels who resist it can get mauled by Earthquake. However, Toxic and HP Ice are options if you dislike Explosion.

I hope that helped, and good luck!
 
I thought of Shaymin, and as much as I wish I could use her, the primary reason for Swampert wasn't actual lightning weakness from Vaporeon (well kinda) but Swampert will fuck a bunch of annoyers who would try to spread TWave which is something I'd definitly hate happening on Nape (or Latios for that matters)

I'm debating if losing Screen support is something I'm fine with or if I should shift Swampert with Gliscor, something sporting Rocks, probly Taunt (F-U Breloom) and 2 more hits, though I lose phazing support.

But yes this helps greatly, thx
 
Acatia said:
I thought of Shaymin, and as much as I wish I could use her, the primary reason for Swampert wasn't actual lightning weakness from Vaporeon (well kinda) but Swampert will fuck a bunch of annoyers who would try to spread TWave which is something I'd definitly hate happening on Nape (or Latios for that matters)

I'm debating if losing Screen support is something I'm fine with or if I should shift Swampert with Gliscor, something sporting Rocks, probly Taunt (F-U Breloom) and 2 more hits, though I lose phazing support.

But yes this helps greatly, thx
Click to expand...

If this helps make your decision any easier, Shaymin has Natural Cure; she can happily take Thunder Waves all day, and just switch out to remove the status.
 
Ferrothorn *kinda* outclasses shaymin.
Conkeldurr/Scrafty *kinda* outclasses hitmontop (just kidding, they dont kinda outclass him, they completely mop the floor with him)
 
Aeromence said:
Ferrothorn *kinda* outclasses shaymin.
Conkeldurr/Scrafty *kinda* outclasses hitmontop (just kidding, they dont kinda outclass him, they completely mop the floor with him)
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Ferrothorn and Conkeldurr can suck it though.
Scrafty doesn't have Rapid Spin, nor Mach Punch.
 
2sly4u said:
If this helps make your decision any easier, Shaymin has Natural Cure; she can happily take Thunder Waves all day, and just switch out to remove the status.
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True true, this does make me like that lil patch of flowers even more.
 
Well I wish I remembered where I saw it at first, but double checking with my friend revealed Nape doesn't get Drain Punch... so F my life, gonna have to go with Mach Punch
 
have you tested this? infernape cannot have either fire or thunderpunch with iron fist (male level 10 only. both are egg moves)
 
premboy95 said:
have you tested this? infernape cannot have either fire or thunderpunch with iron fist (male level 10 only. both are egg moves)
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Not sure I follow you, find a female Chimchar, breed it with a Electivire, Magmortar, Ampharos, Hitmonchan, Hipno, Medicham, or just a 4th gen Infernape, problem solved right?

And no I haven't tested it yet, I like to plan so I don't have to hand code all over again (not as bad as chain breed+EV+leveling, but still long when you do it by hand). Which is what its looking for Nape... which is a darn problem since she's the base of this whole team and I wanted to avoid a casual MixNape
 
16. Play with your team before putting it up for rate. We as a community cannot emphasize this enough. No one wants to rate the team that you freshly created while eating breakfast or the gimmick you randomly put together. We as a community want teams that have been battle tested so that the obvious flaws have been hammered out.
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the rules. read them.

also iron fist infernape is a dream world event pokemon that comes out at level 10 and only male. you cannot breed dreamworld abilities onto the pokemon with a female with the dreamworld abiltity. because infernap would only be male, it does not get either fire or thunder punch that are both egg moves. so you hvae to use flare blitz/ stone edge, or use blaze
 
premboy95 said:
the rules. read them.

also iron fist infernape is a dream world event pokemon that comes out at level 10 and only male. you cannot breed dreamworld abilities onto the pokemon with a female with the dreamworld abiltity. because infernap would only be male, it does not get either fire or thunder punch that are both egg moves. so you hvae to use flare blitz/ stone edge, or use blaze
Click to expand...

Fair enough, even if it kinda makes me question the whole concept of theorycrafting, but hey! I don't hang here often so I could be wrong.

Not saying some other RMT show signs of "not yet tested" (actually I am)but w/e
 
a lot of them do show that sign, some people complain often about it xD. now since ive just been bashing on you i think i probably should give you some kind of rate.

this is a pretty good team, but a sun team would walk over this. a +2 Venusaur with sludge bomb, hp fire, and energy ball can go straight through this team, with only bronzong avoiding the OHKO. for that reason i suggest CB Dragonite

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Outrage
move 2: Fire Punch
move 3: Dragon Claw / Waterfall
move 4: ExtremeSpeed
item: Choice Band
ability: Multiscale
nature: Adamant / Jolly
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

with Bronzong and Vaporeon there to take dragon and ice attacks, your synergy is not hurt to badly, and dragonite hits incredibly hard with its extremespeed. also because you have hitmontop and Bronzong, excadrill is not that much of an issue, and with hitmontop and Vaporeon using wish and Stealth rock, you can easily abuse multiscale often.
 
thx Premboy
I'm pretty much supposing you mean Chlorophyl Venusaur (wouldn't be much reason otherwise), but does even a max speed Chlorophy Saur outspeeds both max speed Infernape and Latios?. Granted I have battled far more sand and hail teams then sun teams I'm still given to understand Venusaur would possibly be running a Modest nature as they don't seem to pack Growth all that much. cuz if my theory is right, then I'd Fire Punch/Blaze Kick/HP Fire it to death with his own sunlight. Unless Chlorophyl really gives it a 30 base stat boost all of a sudden. And again, I don't think its safe to counter only Venusaur.
Would you have removed Latios instead?
 
chlorphyll venuaur with a modest nature outspeeds both your latios and infernape easily, and always runs growth. both all your priority moves wil fail to OHKO and venuaur will sweep. dnite with multiscale can easily take the hit and either use outrage, or use extremespeed twice to 2hko.

oh also i just noticed toxicroak in the rain completely destroys you. dragonite helps with that also because they commonly dont run ice punch
 
So CB Dragonite over Latios? dragon stacking isn't something I'd find safe since they are pretty much a given that your opponent will 95% of the time have a dragon counter.

Changing dragon would imply that Shaymin is my only source of special damage, and while i love that lil girl, it might be limited to restrain myself to just her, or would Venusaur/Toxicroak proove that much of a looming threat that they require the necessary change?
 
Acatia said:
So CB Dragonite over Latios? dragon stacking isn't something I'd find safe since they are pretty much a given that your opponent will 95% of the time have a dragon counter.
Click to expand...
Well, if you're replacing 1 dragon for another dragon, it wouldn't really be stacking...

Anyway, pretty solid team.

Dragonite over Latios is a change that probably needs to be made, as Venusaur is on almost every sun team, and Toxicroak is on most rain teams.

On Vaporeon, definitely keep Toxic over Ice Beam, as that will stop you from beign set up fodder for pokemon such as Gyarados. Thundurus shouldn't be too big of an issue thanks to Hitmontop and Shaymin anyway. You can always Toxic dragons as well.
 
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