Kangaskhan [QC 3/3]

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Kangaskhan


[Overview]
  • Separates itself from the multitude of outher physical Normal types with its ability Scrappy and vast usable movepool. This means that is can get perfect coverage with just its STAB and a Fighting move.
  • Has good bulk with 105/80/80 Defenses enabling it to switch in repeatedly.
  • Although its offensive stats (95/40/90) may not look that impressive, Kangaskhan's other properties make up for these shortcomings somewhat and when played well, Kangaskhan is an effective offensive threat in the UU metagame.

[SET]
name: All Out Attacker
move 1: Double Edge / Return
move 2: Low Kick / Drain Punch
move 3: Sucker Punch
move 4: Fake Out
item: Choice Band / Life Orb
ability: Scrappy
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
  • Unlike most Normal types, Kangaskhan is free to use a Choice item without fear of Ghost switch-ins, allowing it to spam Normal/Fighting moves all day long.
  • Low Kick provides perfect coverage in conjunction with Double Edge / Return.
  • Kangaskhan gets Drain Punch via Breeding and Gen 4 TM and is an option on the Life Orb set for regaining lost health, although the lacklustre power means that Low Kick is generally the better choice.
  • Sucker Punch often won't get much use as, without STAB, it lacks power. However, it is handy for late-game sweeping and when you need to pick off faster foes.
  • Ice Punch allows Kangaskhan to 2HKO Gligar, who would otherwise wall Kangaskhan, after Stealth Rock damage.
  • Fake Out is another viable option available to Kangaskhan. Although relatively weak, it provides a last-minute check to a whole slew of UU attackers.
  • Standard EV spread is just to maximise speed, hitting 306 and most notably outspeeding the Rotom Formes and Neutral base 100s.


[ADDTIONAL COMMENTS]
  • Kangaskhan has a few different options, so you can choose to run different moves to accommodate different threats or needs.
  • Double Edge is preferred on the Choice Band set due to the power difference, although if using Life Orb, Return should be used to maximise Kangaskhan's longevity.
  • Low Kick tends to hit most UU Steels and walls harder than Hammer Arm, especially Pokemon like Rhyperior, who may otherwise cause you problems.
  • Those Pokemon that are lighter wont be able to take an Earthquake. Hammer Arm is only really an option for the Choice Band set, where you will not be staying in for extended periods.
  • Choice Band is usually better than Life Orb, because it requires very little support to be effective and can punch huge holes in the opponent's team with a little prediction. Life Orb is better for attempting to sweep or put more pressure on the opponent with the ability to switch moves, though it should be noted that the decrease in longevity is noticeable and it should be used with dedicated team support.
  • The last two moveslots are much more open to change if using Choice Band, as being locked into either Sucker Punch or Fake Out can be a liability. That said, they do serve specific roles and having priority allows Kangaskhan to fulfill a role that it otherwise would not be able to.
  • Hammer Arm can be used in the second slot on the Choice Band set, though Low Kick generally hits its intended targets harder.
  • Kangaskhan also has access to Earthquake and Rock Slide; however the coverage is redundant.
  • You will find that when using Kangaskhan, the last two slots can be customised in order to eliminate certain threats. This is helped by Kangaskhan's expansive movepool.
  • Kangaskhan has access to the Elemental Punches and Aqua Tail. These can be used to lure and eliminate certain threats that the team may have trouble with. In particular, Fire punch can remove Escavalier, who has the bulk and the typing to take Kangaskhan's hits and KO back, Ice Punch can be used for the rare Gligar, as you would otherwise be walled by it and Aqua Tail can be used in either of the last two slots to help remove Rhyperior.
  • Kangaskhan can run Knock Off to ruin Eviolite users, and remove leftovers. While this seems like a great option, Kangaskhan can 2HKO Chansey and Gligar, the most common Eviolite users with a Life Orb boosted Double Edge or Ice Punch respectively and prefers the extra KOes it can gain by using other moves.
  • Dugtrio makes an excellent partner for Kangaskhan, with the ability to trap and KO many of UUs Rock and Steel-types. Mixed Victini can also pair well with Kangaskhan, with its good bulk, resistance to Fighting type attacks and ability to take on Rock types and Steel types with Grass Knot/Focus Blast and V-create/Fire Blast respectively.

[SET]
name: Sub-Punch
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Focus Punch
move 3: Return
move 4: Sucker Punch
item: Leftovers
ability: Scrappy
nature:Adamant
evs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
  • Luckily for her, Kangaskhan was blessed with assets of a good Sub-Puncher: The ability to make 101 Substitutes, perfect coverage between Focus Punch and Return and a priority move in Sucker Punch.
  • This set has great potential, as it can 2HKO alot of common UU threats, making it difficult for many Pokemon to take out its Sub without being KOed.

[ADDTIONAL COMMENTS]
  • Unfortunately, due to the lack of Attack investment, dedicated Physical walls with reliable recovery can beat Kangaskhan, especially Tangrowth and Slowbro, due to their access to Regenerator and strong STAB attacks.
  • EVs allow Kangaskhan to outspeed max speed base 55s and uninvested Rotom.
  • In order to increase Kangaskhan's spees, an alternate spread of 212 HP / 120 Atk / 176 Spe with a Jolly nature can be used. This allows it to outspeed the base 80s. Although, this speed tier is no longer as important as it was in 5th Gen, and Kangaskhan will have a more difficult time beating many opponents who can subsequently outspeed him.
  • As always Double Edge can be used over Return to hit Kangaskhan's switch-ins harder.
  • One can use Expert Belt, or another such item in order to feign Choice Band, in order to lure in and eliminate Steel types with a well-timed Focus Punch, clearing the way for other Pokemon to sweep, although this strategy is unreliable.



[Other Options]
  • Kangaskhan now has access to a boosting move! Work-up can be used to boost Kangaskhan's attack. This is probably most effective when put into one of the last two slots on the Physical Attacker set.
  • With Kangaskhan's fantastic special movepool, a mixed Work-Up set may seem viable, though her awful Special Attack, and the ability of Tauros to do a similar thing, but much better, makes this a poor choice.
  • Support set is possible, with access to Counter, Circle Throw and Knock off, although, due to Kangaskhan's relatively poor (for a defensive Pokemon) bulk and lack of recovery, this is difficult to pull off and best left to other Pokemon.
  • Disable is an interesting move, though Kangaskhan does not have the bulk nor the typing needed to pull it off.
  • Kangaskhan can run a fairly effective set of Fake Out / Endeavour / Return or Reversal / Sucker Punch, being able to hit Ghosts with Endeavour is this set's major selling point though it is slightly unreliable and can be difficult to pull off. Nonetheless, if you can make it work and give dedicated team support, then it can pay dividends.
  • Endure/Reversal is another option that Kangaskhan can use, though until Salac berry is released, it will be alot more difficult to use and should generally be avoided.
  • Kangaskhan also gets Wish from a Gen 3 Event. While this may seem like a nice option at first, the inability to abuse Scrappy, and the availability of Lickilicky in the same role makes this a poor choice overall.

[Checks and Counters]
  • The Choice Band set is difficult to counter or even check, but can be played around with varying degrees of success.
  • Rhyperior can take any of Kangaskhan's attacks and hit back with strong Earthquakes, though it will be unable to take repeaded Low Kicks.
  • Most Steel and Rock types can effectively check Kangaskhan, so long as the avoid a CB Low Kick/Hammer Arm.
  • Bulky Hitmontop can take on Kangaskhan with Intimidate and Close Combat, but can be worn down over the course of the match, due to the lack of reliable recovery.
  • Gligar can counter any Ice-Punchless Kangaskhan nut may need to be wary of Knock Off. Escavalier can check Kangaskhan fairly effectively so long as it lacks Fire Punch and threaten heavy damage with its strong Megahorn.
  • Life Orb and Sub-Punch variants are easier to check, and most defensive Pokemon with reliable recovery and a decent STAB can take it on and win 1 on 1. In particular, defensive Arcanine or Zapdos can take on the sub punch set, although both are weak to Stealth Rock and will have difficulty taking repeated LO Double Edges.
  • Slowbro can take almost any attack Kangaskhan can throw at it and respond with a Scald or Slack Off repeatedly to stall out Kangaskhan's Life Orb damage.
 
mention early bird rest in OO? Kanga is pretty one-dimensional so.... not much else I guess.

you mention fake out on choice band; I hope I'm not the only one who sees the terribleness in that idea.

mention endeavor, circle throw, and drain punch in OO.

finally, I'm not sure if kanga needs all the speed on the all out attacker set. Kanga has very nice bulk but only ok speed; if the speed is unnecessary, then give it a spread of 224/16/16, stick the rest in attack, and give it adamant.
 
This is by far my favorite set:

Physical Attacker:
Ability: Scrappy
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Item: Life Orb
Double Edge
Drain Punch
Sucker Punch
Filler
 
mention early bird rest in OO? Kanga is pretty one-dimensional so.... not much else I guess.
Without Scrappy Kangaskhan loses his only niche over any
offensive or supporting normal type. I considered it as an OO idea, but its just terrible when you actually try it. Not viable at all.

you mention fake out on choice band; I hope I'm not the only one who sees the terribleness in that idea.
Oops, meant Life Orb. Fixed now.

mention endeavor, circle throw, and drain punch in OO.
Already mentioned all of those in the analysis. EDIT: Hadn't mentioned Endeavour, have now.

finally, I'm not sure if kanga needs all the speed on the all out attacker set. Kanga has very nice bulk but only ok speed; if the speed is unnecessary, then give it a spread of 224/16/16, stick the rest in attack, and give it adamant.
Investing in Kangaskhan's bulk makes little noticeable difference in my experience as she's too frail to tank lots of hits, just take the odd hit here and there when she needs to, whereas it really does help having the extra speed. There's too many Pokemon sitting in the range between Base 80 and Base 90 that Kangaskhan wants to KO before they can retaliate.
 
Drain Punch deserves a slash/mention alongside Low Kick/Hammer Arm

Earthquake on the main set seems pretty repetitive with Low Kick / Hammer Arm, especially since the reasons cited are not that impressive. Rock Slide sounds better to get some more super effective coverage, or Fire Punch to destroy Escavalier. Alternatively with Life Orb, Knock Off.

Seriously, you are underestimating Knock Off. IMO, almost anything that gets it should give it heavy consideration in UU, where Eviolite runs rampant. Until Chansey is banned, anything that gets Knock Off should probably main it if it can. So, it deserves a slash or at least an AC mention in the first set.

Also, you don't need a Dream World section or to mention inner focus at all really, since it's already a released ability...
 
Drain Punch deserves a slash/mention alongside Low Kick/Hammer Arm

Earthquake on the main set seems pretty repetitive with Low Kick / Hammer Arm, especially since the reasons cited are not that impressive. Rock Slide sounds better to get some more super effective coverage, or Fire Punch to destroy Escavalier. Alternatively with Life Orb, Knock Off.

Seriously, you are underestimating Knock Off. IMO, almost anything that gets it should give it heavy consideration in UU, where Eviolite runs rampant. Until Chansey is banned, anything that gets Knock Off should probably main it if it can. So, it deserves a slash or at least an AC mention in the first set.

Also, you don't need a Dream World section or to mention inner focus at all really, since it's already a released ability...

I've slashed Drain Punch, but I'm still not sold on it. That said, I've moved it from AC to the main set.

I agree with you on EQ, it doesn't get that much usage. I tested with Rock Slide, and on both sets it is superior, so that gets the primary slash. Fire Punch is also really good, so I've given that a special mention in AC, thugh considering replacing Earthquake with it.

Again, you're right about Knock off, its more useful than Sucker Punch on the LO set, so that gets a slash. To avoid all the slashing, I might split the first set into a Choice Band and a LO set, because they have different options, and are played differently.

The only thing I'm worried about is all the slashing going on. Kangaskhan has loads of viable options in the LO set, so I tried to stress that in AC.

But, yeah, thanks for the input, really helpful.
 
This analysis suffers from slash-itis. I'd de-slash EQ from the main set, because it doesn't cover anything, that Fighting + Rock don't cover anyway. (I think)

QC APPROVED (1/3)
 
With Kangaskhan's scrappy ability, normal + fighting has perfect neutral coverage aside from shedinja I guess. Therefore, the other two moves on the physical attacker set should not be coverage moves, but utility moves that allow Kangaskhan to hit pokemon that it normally would not be able to. Sucker Punch is great at this, allowing Kangaskhan to "revenge kill" faster threats. Knock off also works to some extent, allowing Kangaskhan to get past stuff like Gligar and Dusclops. However, neither Rock Slide nor Earthquake helps at all. SE Rock Slide is weaker than a neutral STAB attack, and fighting attacks already cover everything that you would want to hit with Earthquake. I used Kangaskhan in round 1 when the UU metagame still relied on Mismagius and Golurk to take all normal-type attacks, and I cannot count how many times CB Fake Out saved the game. Sure, it's weak and you have to switch out afterwards, but Fake Out allows Kangaskhan to fulfill a role that it otherwise would not be able to. Considering Kangaskhan has perfect neutral coverage in just two attacks, increasing its versatility should be a top priority for it.

This is what the physical attacker set should look like:

name: All Out Attacker
move 1: Double Edge / Return
move 2: Low Kick / Drain Punch
move 3: Sucker Punch
move 4: Knock Off / Fake Out
item: Choice Band / Life Orb
ability: Scrappy
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Do that and I'll stamp it.
 
Sorry that this has taken so long, had irl stuff to take care of. Thanks for the input PK Gaming and Snunch, I think that Earthquake often comes in handy on the CB set, but I agree that versatility should probably take priority and so I've relegated it to AC.

One more to go.
 
Why is the SubPunch set so fast? And Jolly? You're pretty much going to be going last due to Focus Punch or using a priority Sucker Punch, and an fast Return is useless when it's coming off an almost uninvested Atk stat. I'd just go with like 16 speed (for no speed rotom and max speed base 55s) max atk and rest into HP.

Also mention physically defensive zapdos and arcanine as counters for subpunch. I don't think either can handle LO Double-Edge after SR though.
 
Again, I kind of disagree with how useful Knock Off is.

Life Orb Double Edge does 42.3% - 50.1% to Bold Eviolite Chansey which is a pretty good chance to 2HKO with Stealth Rock.

Life Orb Knock Off does 4.8% - 5.8% to Bold Eviolite Chansey and Double Edge does 63.3% - 74.6% to Chansey without its Eviolite which still doesn't KO Chansey with SR support (although it is pretty close).

I'd rather just try for a 2HKO with Double Edge then waste a 2HKO using Knock Off.

All this Knock Off non sense is just pointless, it's such a weak move and most of the time (imo) doesn't help or is outclassed by a different move the Pokemon can use.

Although, Knock Off can possibly let Kanga beat Dusclops if it knocks its Eviolite off, switches out, and then can 2HKO with Double Edge (43.3% - 51.1%).

Same with Gligar (43.1% - 50.6%).
Both with Stealth Rock support, of course.

Speaking of Gligar, mention Ice Punch in AC how it can guarantee 2HKO Impish Eviolite Gligar with Stealth Rock support (47.9% - 57.5%).

Furthermore, Choice Band Kanga being locked into a weak move like Knock Off is complete set up bait for so many Pokemon... Cool, she knocked off their item, but now they're at +2 or something and she's stuck doing shit damage and is basically forced to switch out. For the Choice Band set I think Knock Off should not be recommended at all.

EDIT: I personally think it shouldn't be slashed and should be put into AC if anything. I mean, it can be useful, but people are definitely trying to make it sound better than it really is.

One more thing, I agree with Flareblitz, why is so much Speed used on the Sub set, it should go into HP instead.
 
Why is the SubPunch set so fast? And Jolly? You're pretty much going to be going last due to Focus Punch or using a priority Sucker Punch, and an fast Return is useless when it's coming off an almost uninvested Atk stat. I'd just go with like 16 speed (for no speed rotom and max speed base 55s) max atk and rest into HP.

Also mention physically defensive zapdos and arcanine as counters for subpunch. I don't think either can handle LO Double-Edge after SR though.

what this guy said, wise man here.
 
Why is the SubPunch set so fast? And Jolly? You're pretty much going to be going last due to Focus Punch or using a priority Sucker Punch, and an fast Return is useless when it's coming off an almost uninvested Atk stat. I'd just go with like 16 speed (for no speed rotom and max speed base 55s) max atk and rest into HP.

Also mention physically defensive zapdos and arcanine as counters for subpunch. I don't think either can handle LO Double-Edge after SR though.

Implemented suggestions, still included alternative, faster spread, for outspeeding base 80s.

Again, I kind of disagree with how useful Knock Off is.

I think you underestimate the value of Knock Off. Although, I was sceptical at first too, being able to remove Leftovers/Eviolite is great for wearing down the opponent's team, and can make a big difference throughout the course of the match, especially if clearing the way for another Pokemon to sweep. Still, I've updated and edited the OP in response to your post.

I agree that it shouldn't be used on the Choice Band set (although Adamant Knock Off will always break a 4/0 Mismagius sub), and this is one of the reasons I think that CB and LO could be split into two sets (as well as stuff like Fake Out and Sucker Punch being crappy to be locked into), looking something like this:


name: Choice Band
move 1: Double Edge
move 2: Low Kick
move 3: Aqua Tail
move 4: Ice Punch / Fake Out
item: Choice Band
ability: Scrappy
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

and

name: Life Orb
move 1: Return
move 2: Low Kick / Drain Punch
move 3: Sucker Punch
move 4: Knock Off / Fake Out
item: Life Orb
ability: Scrappy
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Do you think it would be worth it? This would also reduce the size of AC, and make it a bit more specific.
 
I already explained why Knocking Off an Eviolite isn't exactly that useful. She can still 2HKO Chansey with her Eviolite, and still possibly doesn't 2HKO Dusclops or Gligar without their Eviolite, and she has Ice Punch for Gligar to 2HKO him with his Eviolite.

Now for Leftovers, it is still generally outclassed by just attacking.

LO Jolly Double Edge vs:
252/248 Bold Milo: 43.7% - 51.8%
252 HP / 4 Def Adamant Donphan: 46.1% - 54.2%

Those both are a hell of a close 2HKOs with Stealth Rock support (even with one turn of Leftovers considered it still is a possible 2HKO).

252 HP / 252 Def Bold Zapdos: 43% - 50.8%
72 HP Adamant Intimidate Arcanine: 53.4% - 63.1%

Both guaranteed 2HKOs with Stealth Rock support.

Why would you want to Knock Off their item when you can 2HKO them anyways?

You're underestimating the power of Kanga's Double Edge.

These examples are just common ones I could think of at the moment, but I'm sure there is a lot more...
 
Slash Crunch before Sucker Punch on the first set, getting locked into Sucker Punch is a horrible, horrible situation. I actually think Ice Punch should be slashed before Fake Out too, the extra coverage is nice and getting locked into Fake Out is even more horrible

contrib_qc.png


QC 3/3

Some GP things:

- It should be All-Out Attacker
- It's Double-Edge, not Double Edge
- It's SubPunch, not Sub-Punch
 
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