No Weather Offensive Team

topspin1617

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Dragonite @ Life Orb
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Aqua Tail
- Fire Punch/Aerial Ace

A bulky physical attacker/sweeper. Good bulk and Multiscale should ensure that Dragonite can get off a couple of Dragon Dances, and then proceed to wreak havoc on my opponent's team. I have Dragon Claw over Outrage so that Dragonite is free to switch up attacks, especially against a Steel-type switch-in. Aqua Tail provides a nice attack to use against Rock and Ground-types, which the team is otherwise lacking (well, on a more consistent basis anyway... Ferrothorn and Tentacruel are never going to dish out that much damage). I'm strongly considering making Aerial Ace the main option over Fire Punch, to let Dragonite take on Fighting-types more directly. But I lose the ability to hit Steels for super-effective damage in that exchange, which can really hurt. Though I do have a Fire-type that can make short work of those Steels. Together with the next Pokemon, Dragonite forms half of the reliable offensive core of the team.

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Volcarona @ Life Orb
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Hidden Power Rock/Psychic

The other sweeper, this time special. Quiver Dance is one of the best boosting moves in the game, and Volcarona is perfect to exploit it. Volcarona's biggest nemesis is probably Stealth Rock, which is one of the biggest reasons for the presence of Tentacruel on this team. The last move is a bit of a question mark; Hidden Power Rock is obviously a great option, letting Volcarona hit Dragonite and Salamence (which Volcarona couldn't even touch before), and even giving an option to hit Thundurus and other Fire-types for super-effective damage. But Psychic wrecks the ever present Fighting-types, something most other Pokemon on this team cannot do, save possibly for Gengar (which is a reason I'm also considering Aerial Ace on Dragonite).

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Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- U-Turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit/Aerial Ace

Pretty much standard, I suppose. Scizor has a variety of uses, including revenge killing with Bullet Punch, and wallbreaking (in particular being a dedicated Blissey destroyer). Keeps up the offensive theme of the team. Again, the last slot is a bit tricky. I'm having a lot of trouble deciding how to distribute moves to take down Fighting-types among my first four Pokemon. This is a big deal, because Fighting-types are all over the place at the moment. The right combination in this regard can make or break a battle, I think.

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Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spe
- Substitute
- Protect
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake

Recently added to the team to address some weaknesses, specifically to Sandstorm teams. As mentioned by a couple of people already, Gliscor does a lot to shore up some of this team's main issues. Not to mention he's a pretty good fighter in his own right. Pretty hard to take down, and Substitute + Protect only make that all the more true. Plus, if Toxic Spikes is up, Gliscor can stall down anything that can be poisoned, giving me another way to get rid of annoying defensive Pokemon. Earthquake is always useful, as is Ice Fang against Dragons, and maybe even other Gliscor (though that could be a long, annoying fight...).

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Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Nature: Relaxed
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed/Spikes
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip

Even an offensive team needs some defensive capabilities. Ferrothorn is just an incredible Pokemon, and if you are going to run a team with only one or two Pokemon dedicated to defense, Ferrothorn is a great choice. It does so many things well all by itself. It can also set up Stealth Rock, which lends its hand to the offensive side of things as well. Ferrothorn's typing makes it a great counter to much of what a rain team can dish out, and Power Whip is there to take those Pokemon out... or at least attempt to. I'm not sure whether Leech Seed or Spikes is the better option, but Leech Seed + Leftovers can be absolutely maddening on a Pokemon that can be so hard to put a dent into. Not to mention the fun that can be had with Leech Seed forcing a switch directly into the path of a Stealth Rock.

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Tentacruel @ Leftovers
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 40 SpA / 16 Spe
Nature: Bold
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Ice Beam

Tentacruel is a great specially defensive Pokemon, as well as a Rapid Spinner. However, Tentacruel is also fast and has a Special Attack stat that... well, that isn't atrocious, anyway. Scald is a great STAB for this type of Pokemon; the ability to Burn is very nice. Tentacruel also plays yet another role with Toxic Spikes. Tentacruel may very well be the most versatile Pokemon on this team. I chose Rain Dish for the ability because, even though I'm not running rain, it is so common right now that I may as well take advantage of it. That, and Tentacruel doesn't really have any other abilities that are clearly better. The one thing I worry about is the EV investments on this and Ferrothorn; I tried to compensate for their lower defensive stat, but I'm wondering if it would be better to highlight their strengths instead.

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Gengar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Shadow Ball/Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Psychic/Focus Blast

Revenge killing Gengar, with a side job of spin blocking. Switching in to a Rapid Spin and then going first the next turn with the Scarf can be a bit of a surprise, sometimes. I don't know if taking Shadow Ball away from Gengar is a huge sin, but Focus Blast seems like it may be more useful, hitting Steel-types such as Excadrill. The Psychic moveslot is the final piece of the puzzle with the first four Pokemon on this team. Boltbeam is as good as ever, and Hidden Power Ice lets Gengar possibly revenge Dragons and take on Gliscor.

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I'm pretty new at this, so I'm sure the team could be a lot better. I'm completely open to suggestions on anything, whether it's on the movesets, other Pokemon to use, different EVs, natures, etc.
 
Hey this is a nice team! My only gripes are as follows. First of all, Terrakion can lay some massive dents in your team. You won't ever get swept cold thanks to Scizor, but switching into him is going to be pretty demanding. CB versions especially can spam SE pretty mindlessly since I would daresay you wouldn't switch a ferrothorn into a terrakion? If you do you got cahones! If it's Air Balloon playing around it might be even trickier. In a similar vein Landorus is a real headache, especially that annoying set franky posted with substitute since then gengar can't revenge him and ferrothorn will have a harder time with him. Again, he won't sweep you cold but he's definitely formiadable and can lay some serious dents in your team. Perhaps most pressing is Excadrill, who sincerely 6-0s this team without hesitation and sets up rather easily on choice locked Scizor or Gengar. tl:dr version of this paragraph- for a weatherless team you certainly don't handle sand very well!

Obviously a Gliscor would patch up this weakness rather nicely, but the question is "over what". I personally think that Gengar is doing the least for you. I understand the appeal of having a spin blocker, but in the 5th gen metagame not only are spinners rare, they're forewarned by team preview so you know not to set up hazards liberally until your opponent's spinner is dead. I also don't think Toxic Spikes are terribly important for the team, unless you're up against full stall in which case Scarf Gengar isn't a sturdy enough spin blocker anyway. I also don't think that using a scarfer in general is necessary- you have two powerful priority attacks so you should be able to revenge everything pretty effectively. In terms of defensive synergy, both switch into troublesome fighting types so it's a good cut and paste job. The set I'd recommend is-

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb (Poison Heal)
252 HP / 80 spe / 176 Def
Substitute / Protect / Ice Fang / Earthquake

This set is a massive headache for many teams if you can get a sub up, and with toxic spikes the effects are even more devastating. If you feel a more offensive set is necessary, feel free to run SD or Acrobat but tentacruel + subProtect Gliscor is too good to pass up imo!

The only other things I'll comment on would be your slashes. ON Dragonite, use Fire punch - Aerial Ace honestly has almost 0 purpose and hitting hard in the sun is important. It, more importantly, allows you to hit steels super effective so they don't rain on your parade! I'm not sure why you feel hitting fighting types is so important, but anyways with the Gliscor change it probably isn't necessary. By this logic use HP Rock on Volcarona, and Pursuit on Scizor. ON Ferrothorn, it honestly biols down to preference by Leech Seed is a great option imo to keep Dragonite from setting up on you for free and to be annoying in general- it's great team support and helps keep your sweepers alive.

That's all my advice, I hope this helps!
 
Hmm, I like to give constructive criticism, but Smith really has spoken all that has to be spoken before the team is more thoroughly tested.
Overall a good non-weather. Too bad weather will probably demolish it unless you give a decent threatlist to prove otherwise. 7/10
 
Excadrill is able to destroy this team pretty easily. Pretty much nothing on this team can switch into boosted rock slide or earthquake at all. Conkeldurr is a pretty huge threat to this team too. After one boost, it will be able to sweep its way through pretty much every member on this team with little to no trouble at all. Since you seem to be open to anything, the most simple suggestion as far as Excadrill goes would be to run scarf Politoed over Gengar. Currently, Gengar is the weakest link of this team as opposed to Politoed who could be a huge help in checking big threats such as Landorus, Excadrill, and the like. Not only that, but this team really benefits from drizzle support. Pretty much every member on this team, bar Volcarona, will fit on this team easily with Politoed.

Conkeldurr still remains a problem, even with this change. An easy fix to this would be to run taunt Gliscor over Volcarona. It is the only team member that does not benefit from drizzle anyways, and Gliscor is an excellent switch into Conkeldurr and Excadrill. With those changes, I would consider running a spread of 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe with protect over ice beam on Tentacreul. This allows you to outrun the standard Gliscor which has the potential to be kind of annoying especially since Gengar may no longer be on this team. The last slot on your Dragonite could be roost as well. If you decide to test Politoed on this team, dragon claw and aqua tail will be good enough coverage against most things that you run into. If you really can't afford to be stopped by Ferrothorn, a mixed set with hurricane would also work really well. gl.
 
Thanks for the input everyone!
@Smith: I think I will give that Gliscor a try over Gengar. You guys are all correct, of course, about Excadrill, Landorus, etc etc. Gliscor does seem to work quite nicely against many of the Pokemon that hurt this team the most. Question though: you said I had 2 powerful priority moves? All I have is Bullet Punch..... Dragonite doesn't have ExtremeSpeed.
Not to sound like a n00b, but... What is the purpose of Protect? A free turn of healing, scouting, and possibly poison damage? Or does it do something else I'm not aware of?

@AB2: I see what you mean, and i am open to most ideas, but I'd really prefer not to go the weather route. And yes, I know -- just having a Politoed doesn't necessarily make it a rain team. But I really don't want to play weather at all... though I'll keep the idea in mind.
 
Goddamn Smith.

He stole my main suggestion.

Dragonite Earthquake>Aqua Tail.
Volcarona HP Ground> HP Rock/Psychic( for Heatrans)
 
Protect allows a free turn of healing, increased longevity, and a waste of your opponents PP. It really can make a difference in your game, and can sometimes change the momentum of your opponent's.
 
Landorus SD Sub set can ruin this team especially when Earthquake doesn't activate Iron Barbs on Ferro, to solve it can I suggest Latios with Specs it can take it down with Draco Meteor and lessen your threats, Overall Nice team.
 
Trollmonchan said:
Goddamn Smith
He stole my main suggestion.

Dragonite Earthquake>Aqua Tail.
Volcarona HP Ground> HP Rock/Psychic( for Heatrans)
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Earthquake is obviously a great attack... But it won't hit some of the Ground-types that Aqua Tail does.
For Volcarona, it's a bit of a wash. Ground hits Heatran, Rock hits threats like Dragonite and Thundurus. I'll have to test to see which is more important.

RhyssaFireheart said:
Landorus SD Sub set can ruin this team especially when Earthquake doesn't activate Iron Barbs on Ferro, to solve it can I suggest Latios with Specs it can take it down with Draco Meteor and lessen your threats, Overall Nice team.
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What would you run it over, though?
 
topspin1617 said:
Thanks for the input everyone!
@Smith: I think I will give that Gliscor a try over Gengar. You guys are all correct, of course, about Excadrill, Landorus, etc etc. Gliscor does seem to work quite nicely against many of the Pokemon that hurt this team the most. Question though: you said I had 2 powerful priority moves? All I have is Bullet Punch..... Dragonite doesn't have ExtremeSpeed.
Not to sound like a n00b, but... What is the purpose of Protect? A free turn of healing, scouting, and possibly poison damage? Or does it do something else I'm not aware of?
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yeah sorry I just auto-assume that all Dragonite have Extremespeed lol. Protect means that you can use substitute + protect hypothetically for 32 turns since with poison heal you're getting back 25% over two turns, which means you can toxic stall anything that can be toxiced. It's incredibly annoying, especially for pp stalling Rotom-w and things like that.

Trollmonchan said:
Goddamn Smith.

He stole my main suggestion.
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yeah he's a fucker that guy
 
Smith said:
yeah sorry I just auto-assume that all Dragonite have Extremespeed lol. Protect means that you can use substitute + protect hypothetically for 32 turns since with poison heal you're getting back 25% over two turns, which means you can toxic stall anything that can be toxiced. It's incredibly annoying, especially for pp stalling Rotom-w and things like that.



yeah he's a fucker that guy
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Ah. I see how useful (and annoying) that could be. Guess I didn't realize he recovered that much.

So let's say I switch out Gengar for Gliscor (which I will do up there soon). What would then be the major issues, and what suggestions would there be?
 
Hey there.

Switching out Gengar would fix most of your weaknesses, but not all of them. The major threats after the change: SD Toxicroak, SD Lucario, DD Gyarados, Sub + 3 Attack Landorus.

An easy way to fix all of these weaknesses would be to replace Dragonite for a Slowbro. Dragonite isn't really doing much to help your team synergy. Scizor is necessary for priority and can hit hard on the physical side as is.

Defensive Slowbro
Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Nature: Relaxed
- Slack Off
- Scald
- Fire Blast
- Psychic

Psychic lets Slowbro decimate the likes of Toxicroak, and lets it defeat Gyarados. Fire Blast lets Slowbro destroy Lucario, as well as Scizors and Ferrothorns that think they can get a free switch-in on Slowbro.

Another thing to consider would be to run Hex over Ice Beam on Tentacruel. This way, even if Jellicent comes in when you only have 1 layer of Toxic Spikes up, you can still easily defeat it and rapid spin. Getting the rapid spin off is pretty crucial for your team, as otherwise you are basically just playing with 5 pokemon.

Overall, solid team. Hope I helped, and good luck!
 
Hi, nice team! Sorry if this has already been mentioned, or made a note about, but HP Ice on Gengar is not really necessary. If you're trying to kill dragons, Shadow Ball does just as well on both Lati@s and Salamence / Haxorus / Some other Dragons
 
ShakeItUp said:
Hey there.

Switching out Gengar would fix most of your weaknesses, but not all of them. The major threats after the change: SD Toxicroak, SD Lucario, DD Gyarados, Sub + 3 Attack Landorus.

An easy way to fix all of these weaknesses would be to replace Dragonite for a Slowbro. Dragonite isn't really doing much to help your team synergy. Scizor is necessary for priority and can hit hard on the physical side as is.

Defensive Slowbro
Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Nature: Relaxed
- Slack Off
- Scald
- Fire Blast
- Psychic

Psychic lets Slowbro decimate the likes of Toxicroak, and lets it defeat Gyarados. Fire Blast lets Slowbro destroy Lucario, as well as Scizors and Ferrothorns that think they can get a free switch-in on Slowbro.

Another thing to consider would be to run Hex over Ice Beam on Tentacruel. This way, even if Jellicent comes in when you only have 1 layer of Toxic Spikes up, you can still easily defeat it and rapid spin. Getting the rapid spin off is pretty crucial for your team, as otherwise you are basically just playing with 5 pokemon.

Overall, solid team. Hope I helped, and good luck!
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I see how Slowbro could be useful.

What I worry about is that the team is starting to become more and more defensive, and while that isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's not really my favorite way to play.

But I'll definitely think about the Slowbro. Anyone else think this is a good idea, or have another suggestion?
 
Guess this is a bump...

I just reread my last post. Yes, the Slowbro is titled "Defensive Slowbro", but it DOES seem to be quite an offensive-minded Pokemon, with three attacking moves and a recovery move. So I guess swapping Dragonite out for Slowbro wouldn't really make the team too defensive.

There ARE still a couple other... well, "issues", I suppose I would have with that change, though.

1. This switch gets rid of my physical sweeper. Yes, Scizor is still a physical attacker, and obviously a very good one at that. Gliscor and Ferrothorn are also physical attackers. But I don't think Scizor is consistent enough to handle the physical side of things all by himself. First and most obviously, he's Scarfed. It's quite unlikely that he'll have the chance to hang around and take on a few opponents in a row. I feel like I still need Dragonite (or some other physical sweeper) to really be pulling the majority of the weight when it comes to... well, physical sweeping...

2. Well... #1 actually pretty much took care of my concerns regarding this switch lol. Other than... I really really really really like Dragonite lol. But that's not where the resistance to switching him out is coming from... otherwise I'd be using Charizard already lol, my favorite Pokemon evarrrrrrr.

What does everyone think? Should I really switch Dragonite out for Slowbro? Or do something else? Or... do nothing lol?

EDIT: Unrelated to this particular problem, but... do you guys think I should use Thunder Wave on my Ferrothorn? If so, instead of which move?
 
Fishkiller nomore said:
Take note that Excadrill is banned so he dont have to worry
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What? Unless I missed it, this isn't true...

Also... warming up a bit more to Slowbro I guess, still want more opinions. Also been considering using perhaps Skarmory over Ferrothorn (access to phazing... doesn't have to be Skarmory, but that's what comes to mind).
 
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