Houndoom cannot take well hp fight/rock of choiced versions, or if chandelure have sub, chand can just sub while houndoom switchs in and scape safely from houndoom
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np: UU Stage 3 - We Are The Champions
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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Aerodactyl is really fun in this meta, stealth rock is even more vital with Chandelure and Darmanitan, and he can stone edge any Xatu's that are stupid enough to switch in.
On the topic of Chandelure, it's easily my favourite of the drop-downs, a simple LO set can destroy most of the metagame, the scarf set is alright but it lacks in power and being pursuited really diminishes its usefulness, the LO set atleast can play mindgames
On the topic of Chandelure, it's easily my favourite of the drop-downs, a simple LO set can destroy most of the metagame, the scarf set is alright but it lacks in power and being pursuited really diminishes its usefulness, the LO set atleast can play mindgames
1) When was the last time you saw a Chandelure run HP rock? On Choice sets, technically it has a free slot for HP Rock, but consider this:
- MOST of the Pokemon who are hit for SE by HP rock are hit almost as hard by neutral Shadow Ball.
- HP Rock drops your overall speed by 1. Relevant in Chandelure vs Chandelure speed matchups.
SR and Spikes are up, so even if it safely switches out from houndoom's pursuit it still gets shredded when it switches in. The point is, Houndoom switches in and easily forces Chandelure out without resistance.
I think it's obvious that Chandelure is broken. Lets break it down.
First, a HUGE special attack, at 140 (145?) you know shits broken. When you 2HKO Chansey with Fire Blast with Choice Specs, when a Choice Banded Flygon can barely.
I can't believe nobody hasn't mentioned that the only pokemon in the tier that resists his stabs is Snorlax, thats it. Everything else is neutral.
First, a HUGE special attack, at 140 (145?) you know shits broken. When you 2HKO Chansey with Fire Blast with Choice Specs, when a Choice Banded Flygon can barely.
I can't believe nobody hasn't mentioned that the only pokemon in the tier that resists his stabs is Snorlax, thats it. Everything else is neutral.
most chandelures run hidden power fighting, and it cant switch into that.
Stealth rock also shreds houndoom..
I think you're a chandelure user, i even use snorlax and thinks hes broken.
Also, you mentioned slow speed and sr weak, chandelure is really not that slow, but sorta is. Lets say everything under 100 base speed is slow. You know who else fits these categories? Kyurem, and kyurem doesnt even hit as hard as chand.
Um, Houndoom can switch in on chandy and totally beats it? I feel a bit stupider reading this, because this is FARRRR from the truth. Houndoom in UU as a counter to Chandy is like 90% heatran of OU. I see one in team preview, I know that my fire and ghost moves won't work well, so I hp fighting on the obvious switches and 2hko your precious houndoom. It doesnt do shit to a capable chandelure user unless you're locked into a choice fire move or ghost move. And yes, HP fighting is very common for chandy, it gives much better coverage to hit say.. flash fire pokemon that resist ghost moves -_-.
Snorlax IMO is a great COUNTER to Chandelure. Immune to ghost STAB, and a flamethrower in sun coming off 426 sp att is nothing to 'lax. Pursuit KO. Also, Porygon2 is a usually good counter to chandy.
Personally on chandelure in UU, I think I'm going to run flame body on her. Flame body gives the finger to porygon2, and burns machamp's trying to shrug off an attack and paybacking. Trollolol.
Snorlax IMO is a great COUNTER to Chandelure. Immune to ghost STAB, and a flamethrower in sun coming off 426 sp att is nothing to 'lax. Pursuit KO. Also, Porygon2 is a usually good counter to chandy.
Personally on chandelure in UU, I think I'm going to run flame body on her. Flame body gives the finger to porygon2, and burns machamp's trying to shrug off an attack and paybacking. Trollolol.
I see. But from what I'm hearing, Chandy is being used as a Choice scarfer. If you can scout out to see what kind it is, then maybe chansey can win. Oh, but what am I saying? My team sucks. I kinda need help with it. Suggestions please?
Aggron- Choice scarfed with head smash. Does quite a bit of damage and nobody expects scarf.
Darmanitan- My bander with flare blitz. Nuff said.
Exeggutor- Choice spec'd with leaf storm, HP fire, and psyshock. A key to victory.
Aggron- Choice scarfed with head smash. Does quite a bit of damage and nobody expects scarf.
Darmanitan- My bander with flare blitz. Nuff said.
Exeggutor- Choice spec'd with leaf storm, HP fire, and psyshock. A key to victory.
On the topic of Chandelure, Suicune is another straight-up counter. Bulky variants don't care about Scarf, offensive can still switch in on everything besides a Scarfed Energy Ball, and it can even set right up in its face. It's also not SR weak, so it's going to stick around a lot longer than Chandelure most of the time. Milotic can be a good counter too, but it's not running any offensive sets in this meta, and thus a little more worried about a Specs Energy Ball than Suicune.
modest specs chandy with a flash fire boost does 35.5% - 41.9% to max def bold chans. that is the best possible circumstances for this situation, and still doesn't even come close to a 2hko. i don't know where you're getting this from.
also, yeah, offensive suicune can come in on pretty much every variant, outspeed, and cm up in chandy's face. machamp being dropped down to uu only helps offensive cune's cause, because now you can punish teams that rely on chans to stop cune.
Sheesh. So unless you can slap a pokemon on your team that always stops it 100% (Including when your chandelure user suddenly gains ESP and knows what your are switching in and use the perfect move to stop it), it's broken? There are 600+ pokemon out there, stop trying to hard counter everything, it's a worthless endeavor.
That being said, I'm not sure if chandy is broken or not.
That being said, I'm not sure if chandy is broken or not.
On paper that seems to be the case, Houndoom can't directly switch into Chandelure who predicts the HP fighting. You know you can apply what you said about chandelure to Mismagius in regards to dealing with Doom. Yet doom is still regarded as one of the best Mismagius checks because nobody blindly uses HP fighting even with Team Preview especially when Chandelure needs to hit target (and it doesn't want to mess up with 50-50's). Also, if the doom player is smart, they'll switch doom in when it doesn't look like Chandy is subbing / using hp fighting. Either way, my main point is that I don't think Chandelure is broken and I honestly don't care if you guys think he's countered/checked by Houndoom or not.
@ kyurem92
HELL YES of course i'm a Chandelure user.
What has been able to reliably check your chandelure without you failpredicting?
Since you can't read i guess re-post the checks and counters from before. (I'll divide them in specific sections because i'm nice)
counters: Trace Porygon 2, Thick Fat Snorlax, Shadow Ball Chansey (lOl) SpD Regirock most of the time (guaranteed in the sand) Cradily (in the sand) SpD Arcanine (watch out for hp rock...)
checks: Houndoom, bulky waters types, pretty much anything faster with a SE or strong STAB move.
Also i find it hilarious (but not surprising) that you're comparing Chandelure to the monstrosity that was Kyurem. If you still think that "my boi" Chandelure is broken then UU is not the tier for you. Its not getting banned unless its DW ability gets released.
counters: Trace Porygon 2, Thick Fat Snorlax, Shadow Ball Chansey (lOl) SpD Regirock most of the time (guaranteed in the sand) Cradily (in the sand) SpD Arcanine (watch out for hp rock...)
checks: Houndoom, bulky waters types, pretty much anything faster with a SE or strong STAB move.
Also i find it hilarious (but not surprising) that you're comparing Chandelure to the monstrosity that was Kyurem. If you still think that "my boi" Chandelure is broken then UU is not the tier for you. Its not getting banned unless its DW ability gets released.
Can we please keep suspect discussion unbiased?
The thing is, suspect testing IS biased. It's whether a PERSON thinks something is broken, not wheher or not something is broken.
What about snorlax? With thick fat, it would laugh at any overheat coming its way and can hit back with E-quake. Of course, the toxic would hurt, but all you have to do is rest it off later on in battle.
EDIT: Just got raped by a bisharp. Holy crap, that thing is a monster. I've gotta find where he should go on MY team.
EDIT: Just got raped by a bisharp. Holy crap, that thing is a monster. I've gotta find where he should go on MY team.
http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-PseudoPro-vs-Paradoxus--2011-10-07
This is a battle I had while lattering, and it is very, very interesting, He tries to stall me to death with a lileep and there is a lot of hax, but it was still really fun.
But I didn't post this just to brag about a battle, I posted to show three things, how Hippowdon completely walls my team, how stall is a very big part of the metagame. And how Roserade is good.
This is a battle I had while lattering, and it is very, very interesting, He tries to stall me to death with a lileep and there is a lot of hax, but it was still really fun.
But I didn't post this just to brag about a battle, I posted to show three things, how Hippowdon completely walls my team, how stall is a very big part of the metagame. And how Roserade is good.
so you have no bulky water
I don't consider Houndoom a good counter to Mismagius. It isn't a good check, either. You can dissuade Mismagius from blindly attacking, but that's all, and since Mismagius is quite likely to be carrying Sub + HP Fighting, Houndoom cannot switch in freely. Houndoom checks Chandelure considerably better because Chandelure is less likely to have Sub + HP Fighting, but it is still by no means a good check. A predicted HP Fighting will KO, in fact Specs Shadow Ball will 2HKO with Stealth Rock. Best case scenario for Houndoom: a 50/50 with Sucker Punch and Pursuit.
SpD Regirock is no counter to all sets: Modest Specs Chandelure Shadow Ball (not even Energy Ball) vs. 252/252+ Regirock - 46.4% - 54.7%, and since SpD Regirock does not get reliable recovery, it can be worn down by non-Specs variants of Chandelure. Like Regirock, SpD Arcanine and Milotic die to Shadow Ball, while Chansey gets pwned by Sub/CM Chandelure. Even Porygon2 is somewhat vulnerable to Sub/CM Chandelure.
Sandstorm is not a semi-common battle condition. It requires one player to have a Hippowdon, which the Chandelure player is not likely to be using. Besides, Modest Specs Fire Blast still does 42.6% - 50.5% to 252/252+ Cradily in the sand.
Of all the counters you listed, there really is only one reliable counter that beats most common sets: Snorlax (well, that and SR and Chandelure's slow speed). Like I said, I'm not saying Chandelure is overpowered, but I'd be lying if I didn't say it's proving hard to prepare for.
Just saying, Chansey's Shadow Ball does 21.46% - 26.05%, which is hardly enough to break its most of the time, and if Chandelure is running Sub/CM, you can kiss Chansey goodbye. Porygon2 also loses to Sub/CM if Chandelure decides to use Flame Body.
Also, now that you've highlighted these counters, anyone notice that Toxic Spikes completely ruin them? With either SubSplit or Sub/CM, Chandelure can either sweep or stall out most of these counters, unless they are RestTalkers. Roserade is such an epic teammate to Chandelure for this very reason.
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