There is nothing noobish about using Sawk over Throah, as they both serve different purposes. Sawk functions as a wall breaker and a good user of band/scarf because of his good Atk and speed. Whereas Throah, with better bulk and guts, acts as a bulky shuffler which is completely different
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Gen V Initial NU Metagame Thread
- Thread starter Oglemi
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There is nothing noobish about using Sawk over Throah, as they both serve different purposes. Sawk functions as a wall breaker and a good user of band/scarf because of his good Atk and speed. Whereas Throah, with better bulk and guts, acts as a bulky shuffler which is completely different
Actually, Slowking isn't my favorite pokemon. I have a bunch of other pokemon that I like better then Slowking, but that is neither here nor there as it is unrelated to the discussion. I admit that Slowking is not the best at tanking physical hits, but that is NOT his role. He is supposed to be used to tank special hits and then try to either cripple the switch, attacking the pokemon that is currently out or do a double switch. Even if the tier is physically dominated, special walls are still valuable. Also, the psychic type typing isn't nearly as crippling as you think, it actually helps gain useful resistances like fighting and psychic while giving it an extra STAB.
But, we can't really say for sure whither this tier is physically dominated or not. The meta hasn't even partially settled yet, a lot of people are still running random stuff or testing stuff out. Sure you can talk about your ladder experience, but my ladder experience may be different from yours, therefore we get different results. Try Slowking out for yourself. If you've used it before, there could be a chance you weren't using it like you are supposed to, it didn't fit well with the team or I am just merely advocating a lost cause. But from my experience, Slowking has been doing really good and that special defense allows it to tank a bunch of special attacking threats like Magmortar and some physical attacking threats like Sawk. (Who, unlike what some people said, isn't outclassed.)
Does anyone think Arbok will be able to take off down here? With Intimidate, Coil, Gunk Shot and decent coverage, he could potentially tear things up with a boost or two. He could even go bulky with a Max Specially defensive EV spread, Coil, EQ, Gunk Shot, and Rest; kind of a pseudo-Curse strategy, but better.
Gurdurr is a beast, but Garbodor just straight shuts him down and Phazes all his boosts with Clear Smog while laying spikes. Sabeleye is obviously broken, and probably broken in RU too, since a well played one renders stall without a Flareon nearly unplayable, Duosion with Eviolite might be pretty potent as well, but I have yet to test it. Also Hail is annoying, here's to hoping Lickilicky can get Wish and Seismic Toss, along with Cloud Nine, sometime in the future.
On that note, weather in general could work pretty well. Some good Chlorophyll/ Swift Swim users find themselves down here, such as Exeggutor, Bellossom, Leafeon, Relicanth, Gorebyss, and Floatzel
I've tested Duosion in RU lately but not in NU yet. I was shocked when I noticed that Entei can 2HKO safely with Flare Blitz.. However, since it stays up there, there might not be all too much that can harm it all too hard. I guess Banette and Absol will be its most effective counters, but we'll see how the NU metagame will evolve.
In case someone's interested in the set I've used:
Duosion @ Eviolite
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Ability: Magic Guard
Moves:
- Psychic / Psyschock
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind
- Recover
With Sableye running around in so damn many teams, you just CAN'T use a fighting type move for the coverage unless you want to be totally walled. Even if you want to do so, Duosion lacks Focus Blast but instead has to rely on HP Fighting, which definately sucks. Shadow Ball offers great coverage anyways so yea, who cares =)
I agree, Throh is so awesome in NU. It tanks a lot of the metagame and can dish out some real pain. It can also defeat sableye with guts and payback which is a huge bonus.
Another pok that work very similar is:
Eelektross @ leftovers
252 HP 4 Def 252 SpD
Careful/Sassy
- Coil
- Substitute
- Dragon Tail
- Spark/Zap Cannon
After a few coils it will wreck most pokemon in NU, Mold Breaker Pinsir is one of the few that can 2HKO after 1 Coil.
Anyone think about regigigas in nu? it can set up a sub against a large amount of threats due to nu hitting lighter than the above tiers on average, then it can t-wave the opposing pokemon and stall out slow start, then it is basically gg unless you have sableye or scarf sawk.
I ran into someone using Evolite Wynaut with a Wish supporter, and a few other set-up attackers.
Wynaut really needs to get out of the teir, that one game showed me that. Almost nothing can OHKO it, and NU is almost devoid of mixed attackers, except for Fire types, so its obscenely easy for Wynaut to get a KO, or two. Then there's the support it can provide with Tickle, and Encore as well.
Wynaut can rather easily be wished back to health by something like Flareon or Kangaskahn.
Wynaut really needs to get out of the teir, that one game showed me that. Almost nothing can OHKO it, and NU is almost devoid of mixed attackers, except for Fire types, so its obscenely easy for Wynaut to get a KO, or two. Then there's the support it can provide with Tickle, and Encore as well.
Wynaut can rather easily be wished back to health by something like Flareon or Kangaskahn.
One of the best set-up sweeper in the tier right now is probably Klingklang.That mechanical monster can set very easily agaisnt a variety of threat and the only sure counter to it is Magneton and maybe Mawile. here's the current set that I use:
Klinklang @ Leftovers
Trait: Plus
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Shift Gear
- Gear Grind
- Return
substitute let it deal with Sableye and other status inducers as they switch in to cripple you. Shift Gear let you outspeed max speed Swellow (who can't really touch you anyways) after one turn of setup with no speed investment.Finally, Gear Grind and return offers prettty good coverage down there in NU. The only pokémon resisting this combination are the few steel types in NU like Magneton, opposing Klingklang, Metang, Mawile and Wormadam-S. Try it, it's great!
Klinklang @ Leftovers
Trait: Plus
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Shift Gear
- Gear Grind
- Return
substitute let it deal with Sableye and other status inducers as they switch in to cripple you. Shift Gear let you outspeed max speed Swellow (who can't really touch you anyways) after one turn of setup with no speed investment.Finally, Gear Grind and return offers prettty good coverage down there in NU. The only pokémon resisting this combination are the few steel types in NU like Magneton, opposing Klingklang, Metang, Mawile and Wormadam-S. Try it, it's great!
I've been liking this (maybe a little gimmicky) Altaria set:
Altaria @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Roost
- Power Swap
- Draco Meteor
- Cotton Guard
The EV spread can probably be optimised, as even such a strong attack just doesn't hit hard off 177 SpA.
Anyway, this set can put a dead stop to special sweepers if you can invest the two turns DMing and Power Swapping, which both deals some nice damage and might give you a free switch. One very neat thing is that PS hits through subs.
There are still some problems with this set, as Altaria can't do much back apart from firing off fairly weak and very limited Draco Meteors (might consider using a Leppa Berry), so you might put an alternative move instead of Cotton Guard (although +3 defense in one turn is pretty damn useful), like Toxic or DTail, or opt for a modest nature and a different spread.
I still think that this set has potential and it's pretty fun trolling Volbeat by letting it get to +6, then swapping the boosts away on the BPass and getting off a little sweep with +3/6 defense and +6SpA!
Altaria @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Roost
- Power Swap
- Draco Meteor
- Cotton Guard
The EV spread can probably be optimised, as even such a strong attack just doesn't hit hard off 177 SpA.
Anyway, this set can put a dead stop to special sweepers if you can invest the two turns DMing and Power Swapping, which both deals some nice damage and might give you a free switch. One very neat thing is that PS hits through subs.
There are still some problems with this set, as Altaria can't do much back apart from firing off fairly weak and very limited Draco Meteors (might consider using a Leppa Berry), so you might put an alternative move instead of Cotton Guard (although +3 defense in one turn is pretty damn useful), like Toxic or DTail, or opt for a modest nature and a different spread.
I still think that this set has potential and it's pretty fun trolling Volbeat by letting it get to +6, then swapping the boosts away on the BPass and getting off a little sweep with +3/6 defense and +6SpA!
I was using Leafeon as my physical wall in RU till Tangrowth dropped down. It is bulky as hell, with access to wish, heal bell, yawn, baton pass. Makes for a very good team supporter, and with a lack of steels down there, not too much resists his leaf blade.
Armaldo is a boss, I'll agree with that. It's easily the best spinner in the tier and has a mammoth attacking stat and good Stabs to taunters and the other spinners in the tier.
Has anyone got a good counter to Klinklang? Its easy enough to take down before its set up, but not much at all can outspeed it once it is set up thanks to a +2 on its 90 base speed (I always forget how fast he is). And there really isn't any priority strong enough to take him down. The only thing I can think of is Magneton, but how viable is Magneton in this meta? Does he do anything else bar countering Klinklang?
Armaldo is a boss, I'll agree with that. It's easily the best spinner in the tier and has a mammoth attacking stat and good Stabs to taunters and the other spinners in the tier.
Has anyone got a good counter to Klinklang? Its easy enough to take down before its set up, but not much at all can outspeed it once it is set up thanks to a +2 on its 90 base speed (I always forget how fast he is). And there really isn't any priority strong enough to take him down. The only thing I can think of is Magneton, but how viable is Magneton in this meta? Does he do anything else bar countering Klinklang?
Magneton is actually legitimately good: try the Resttalk set with 252 HP / 252 SpA Modest spread. For the hidden power, I don't think it's worth to run HP Fire considering all steels are 4x weak to Ground... HP Ground imo works better if you're trying to trap Steel-types. It can counter Sableye bar extremely bad luck as its Discharges do 50%, meaning that he'll get 1 parahax and it's done for. Steel-typing is really good defensively especially when people don't prepare for them. It's nice to force the opponent to think when they're spamming Choiced Dragons.
Maggy also allows YOU to spam Dragon moves, so it's an option alongside something like DD Altaria.
Maggy also allows YOU to spam Dragon moves, so it's an option alongside something like DD Altaria.
Lanturn lols. Magmortar and Emboar lol. Fire types in general in this tier, really, can take a Gear Grind and hit back for a kill. I don't know. I've never really had any problems with Klinklang.
Oh, and Quagsire especially.
Magmortar isn't taking a +1 return very well, especially after SR damage. Neither is lanturn. Klinklang Might have a baron movepool but it can still take those out, especially considering it out speeds them all.
Sableye can WoW Or just taunt it, then it cant get too +1/+2, then just hammer way on its special side, with something.
I should think torkoal would do well considering its rather large defence stat and access too lava plume.
Eviolite rhydon can take a chunk out of it with EQ although it hates being hit by gear grind. So its kind of a lesser check.
Reliable checks include; Torterra as it lacks the steel weakness and has a huge defence stat and can EQ for a 2/3HKO. Also mons like carracosta and relicanth will do well unless it packs some sort of hidden power grass/volt switch. some of those can set up stealth rocks too, justifying a place in the team.
Edit: I just realised the klinklang has a massive Def stat.. maybe carracosta and relicanth arent as good as I thought.....
Sableye will only work if Klinklang isn't behind a sub. The set superpascal posted a few posts ago is Klings best choice of moves, coming from a movepool nearly as sparse as Wobbs.
what i was thinking. Regigigas has a colossal 660 BST; that's UNHEARD of in NU. once slow start ends, unboosted regigigas can probably 2HKO most walls
Unheard of except for, y'know... Slaking.
Regigigas' issue is that he relies on luck too much to set up; He doesn't get Rest (or any recovery for that matter), and needs to use parafusion to stall out the turns until Slow Start ends. There's no reason to roll the dice with him when Slaking can hit that hard right off the bat. Add in the fact that T-Wave + Confuse Ray only leaves you with two moveslots, he's not viable, even with his massive base stats.
Jynx, on the other hand, could tear things up. A good dual STAB, a Sleep-inducing move, and 115 base SpA paired with 95 Base Spe? Yes please. Her only problem is that she's forced to pick between HP Ground for Steels and HP Grass for Slowking, but this problem is somewhat lessened because she can put one counter to sleep. A set like this could be viable:
Jynx@Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
Timid Nature, 252SpA/4SpD/252Spe
Psyshock
Ice Beam/Blizzard
Lovely Kiss
HP Ground/HP Grass
This set is an all-out attacker, and can hit both defenses because of Psyshock. Ice Beam is the preferred Ice STAB, but Blizzard can be used when paired with Hail. Lovely Kiss puts a counter to sleep, while you Hidden Power can take care of something that can otherwise counter you. Life Orb is the best item since Jynx's defenses are laughable at best. Even with those defenses, Dry Skin can give her a free switch-in on Water moves; the drawback is minor since Fire moves will kill her anyways. Nasty Plot could potentially find its way on here too.
Hail is crazy overpowered in this tier, Jynx is a great addition to any hail team.
Minor nitpick: Jynx gets both Grass Knot and Energy Ball so HP Grass doesn't seem like the best choice. The fact it gets both of those does mean it could run one of those in conjunction with HP Ground I guess, so I suppose that's another option, though it would mean forgoing either one of your STAB's or Lovely Kiss.
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