Why would you need to bluff for flash fire anyway, its a fire type to christs sake.
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Chandelure
- Thread starter tennisace
- Start date
Snorlax would probably work fine
Porygon2. End of Story.
I know how Chandelure is from my long usage of it, and counters.
Snorlax is a GREAT counter to Chandelure. Special defensive version. Even in sun, FF boosted flamethrower does like 25% to snorlax (didn't calc). And snorlax's pursuit will OHKO.
Porygon2 is a shut down to chandelure if you don't predict HP fight and use it on the switch. But if it's not FF version then porygon can be maimed by the fire attacks.
Heatran with earth power is a nice pokemon to counter chandelure from his end, but from chandy's end, if you use HP Fighting predicting heatran switching in, heatran is dead. Special bulky heatran is 3hko'd by HP fighting so he can KO with earth power though.
Hydriegon is good if you don't take an hp fighting to the face.
Snorlax is a GREAT counter to Chandelure. Special defensive version. Even in sun, FF boosted flamethrower does like 25% to snorlax (didn't calc). And snorlax's pursuit will OHKO.
Porygon2 is a shut down to chandelure if you don't predict HP fight and use it on the switch. But if it's not FF version then porygon can be maimed by the fire attacks.
Heatran with earth power is a nice pokemon to counter chandelure from his end, but from chandy's end, if you use HP Fighting predicting heatran switching in, heatran is dead. Special bulky heatran is 3hko'd by HP fighting so he can KO with earth power though.
Hydriegon is good if you don't take an hp fighting to the face.
I can't believe this guy is UU now...
QFT. SubSplit Chandy eats Chansey for breakfast.
Agreed. Singlehandedly it can take out entire Sun teams by using HP Ground and Fire Blast. Sun sweepers move, especially Sawsbuck, are resisted by Chandelure and she can easily 1 KO them.
Even without Pain Split, Chansey without Shadow Ball, Water Pulse or Calm Mind(99% of them) is PP Stalled against Sub Chandelure.
It must not be just like this. It must be like in DS.
About this pokémon, is amazing, I started using since I lost 2 important battles against it. It is my favs of 5th together Haxorus and Escavalier. Also, this pokemon makes me sure against Scizor.
Tyranitar of the tier AU(Always used in 99% of the teams) is a bit trouble, though, but it can be played around.
what's the best set for this guy now? In OU? UU?
Well, the calm mind set is great in OU. If you're worried about getting walled by something, I'd use the substitute set so you can't get hit by toxic. However, you'll have to give up something (probably HP fighting).
Is the calm mind set good? It seems lack-luster because of the lack of speed.
After one calm mind, it destroys most things. Sure, it has speed issues, but you can get around some of them with careful predicting, and wearing down faster things. Like, if your opponent has something fast that you predict might come in, don't Calm Mind, but hit it hard with whatever.
You know, I can describe Chandelure in 3 words: be.... our.... guest.
Chansey, blissey, porygon2, snorlax. The list goes on!
Oh, look. The SubCM set beats all of those(well, except Snorlax).
Still, it seems like Snorlax is the only thing that can hard-counter every Chandelure set.
And don't diss, the SubCM, despite 4MMS, if you're team can easily take care of it's counters, it can be very deadly.
So, what's the most useful set for this in OU?
Just in case anyone missed this.
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I think Chandy's best use in OU is as a counter to Sun teams. Venusaur gets screwed if it doesn't run EQ (and if it does, it ends up with real 4MSS, probably giving up Sludge Bomb), Sawsbuck gets screwed if it doesn't run EQ (Jump Kick is sooooo much better), Tangrowth does commonly carry EQ but it's out-sped by Scarf Chandy anyway. It also does massive damage to Volcarona if Volcarona doesn't have at least 2 QD's up (and its typing helps against the bulky and chestorest variants). lol, Ninetales and Forretress won't touch you, and neither will Hitmontop if you don't switch in on Foresight. Donphan gets out-sped and OHKOed. I guess Dugtrio beats Chandelure, but not if Chandelure somehow had a Sub up when Duggy got in (and it's sure not switching in).
IMO, using Chandelure as a wallbreaker is using it wrong, as there are better Pokemon for that. It can't touch Blissey/Chansey (and Porygon2) regardless, and its coverage movepool leaves a lot to be desired. If I wanted to smash walls, I'd just use Hydreigon or Haxorus, who have better coverage and are faster and are bulkier. Yes, the Sub set allows it to beat checks, but that's "check-hitting", not "wall-breaking".
This should be cp'ed into the analysis Overview section.
See, this is sorta like what Kefka said, though. I can think of a few dozen Scarfed 'mons who are absurdly good sweepers at +6. That's not really unique to Chandy. :/
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I think Chandy's best use in OU is as a counter to Sun teams. Venusaur gets screwed if it doesn't run EQ (and if it does, it ends up with real 4MSS, probably giving up Sludge Bomb), Sawsbuck gets screwed if it doesn't run EQ (Jump Kick is sooooo much better), Tangrowth does commonly carry EQ but it's out-sped by Scarf Chandy anyway. It also does massive damage to Volcarona if Volcarona doesn't have at least 2 QD's up (and its typing helps against the bulky and chestorest variants). lol, Ninetales and Forretress won't touch you, and neither will Hitmontop if you don't switch in on Foresight. Donphan gets out-sped and OHKOed. I guess Dugtrio beats Chandelure, but not if Chandelure somehow had a Sub up when Duggy got in (and it's sure not switching in).
IMO, using Chandelure as a wallbreaker is using it wrong, as there are better Pokemon for that. It can't touch Blissey/Chansey (and Porygon2) regardless, and its coverage movepool leaves a lot to be desired. If I wanted to smash walls, I'd just use Hydreigon or Haxorus, who have better coverage and are faster and are bulkier. Yes, the Sub set allows it to beat checks, but that's "check-hitting", not "wall-breaking".
I didn't realize Flame Body made you immune to Fire :O
I think that if Pory2 really gives you that much trouble(which he shouldn't in OU since he's not common at all), just run FB over FF.
You're very correct, but RP Torterra has many counters and checks, while SubCM Chandy's counters in OU are:
Tyranitar
Heatran
Hydreigon
Bulky waters can beat two of them and the third isn't TOO common. No, SubCM Chandy is not a sweeper. I use it to punch holes through everything. It either gets 1 - 2 kills or does a shit load of damage to something and just switches out to come back later.
....if the wall can't hit you back, then it's forced out or is made useless by wasting all its PP. It's coverage is just fine actually. Fire - Ghost is enough to hit most things in OU and Chandy can actually run any move it's team needs: Energy ball for Water types, HP Fighting for T-tar, HP Ice for Dragons(if you run Scarf or whatever), or HP Ground if Heatran really is that bothersome.
So, I don't think Chandy is outclassed in wall-breaking, but just does it differently and is better used for different teams.
Btw, SubCM is the real Wall-breaker, SubLure is better used to hit common switch-ins while providing safety.
Scarf/Specs just make you pursuit bait.
Calm Mind is outsped and killed.
Flame Charge and Substitute require a lot of prediction.
Pursuit makes you Terrakion set-up.
Calm Mind has it's Substitute broken as it WTFBBQSAUCE pwns whatever is in front of it.
Flame Charge requires Heatran and T-tar to be gone.
Substitute REMOVES the prediction.
Maybe I'll try Sub Calm Mind... Shadow Ball and Fire Blast as the two attacking moves?
I use Flamethrower + Shadow Ball, but you can use Hidden Power over Flamethrower if you want.
NOTE: I suggest you have something that can take advantage of a Heatran or T-tar switch-in. I personally use Gyarados, as Standard T-tar doesn't run Stone Edge and Heatran can't do too much except watch me set up.