Hyper Offense - this time without Screens! ;)

[surly]

Hey there - I’ve ever been a great fan of offensive teams, so I thought I’ll give HO a shot ;)

Quick note – this team isn’t meant for online playing or WiFi, just for battling with some of my friends in real once a week or so, pretty casual and not realy go-for-the-throat-competitive you know ;)

Since they require way too much time to train properly in real I’d like to stay away from legendary Pokes if possible.
Also, we play with the common Smogon rules and banned list, however everybody is fine with Blaziken as long as it doesn’t run Speed Boost.


Back to topic – here’s how the team evolved:

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I played a similar team a while ago when Garchomp was still legal, it was based around setting up screens with Uxie, boosting Garchomp or Haxorous and then smash face.


It worked quite well actually, however, this time I'd like to try to avoid Screens and simply rely on 6 sweepers. Since Garchomp got bann-hammered I'd try a different approach with a core of 3 Fighting type pokes.

I wheren't sure if I should either use a physical or special moveset for all 6 pokes, but decided to go the physical route.

Two Fire/Figthing types in one team you might ask? Yes - the idea is to simply weaken my opponents wall with the first one of them, then revenge kill it with the second one. Blaziken and Infernape are perfect for this job, since Blaziken can put a huge dent in basically everthing once it has set up +2 via Sword Dance. Afterwards Infernape and his impressive movepool plow through the rests of my opponents wall.

Since these 3 are pretty much set, the next two pokes joined the team:

Scizor is simply a beast - beaing able to U-Turn is just so absurdly good in this team that it made him pretty much an auto include too me. Also, I found a pretty cool Moveset with Acrobatics and Flying Gem, which can easily OHKO many opposing pokes in combination with his Technican.

Haxorous .... well, this team is based around hitting hard, so what's not to like about this guy ... 147 Atk and the ability to SD or DD is pretty nice.


So far the team looked rather nice imo, however the 6th slot gave me a bit of a headache. In the end I decided to choose an aggressive Gliscor, since it brings brings a lot of things that fit really well in this team, especially U-Turn.

With the comments I got so far, I replaced Gliscor with Salamance for more OOOMPH!!! sweeping power ;)

Blaziken performed like a worse Infernape #2 actually, so I replaced it with Mienshao to try out something different while still sticking to the 3 Fighting types core.

Infernape @ Expert Belt
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- U-Turn
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
Tough one, I'm not sure if Choice Band is the best specc for this team here. Live Orb would be the other option, which would also give the opportunity to run Sword Dance.
With CB however, FBlitz, U-Turn and CCombat are pretty much set imo, while Stone Edge gives a nice weapon against Dragonites and Salamence.

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Close Combat
- Sword Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Ice Punch
One of my favourite pokes of all time, this guy is #3 of this teams Fighting Type core. Either used as a Revenge Killer with Extreme Speed or as a set uo sweeper with SD, Lucario works pretty well in both roles. Having access to Ice Punch as another out against pesky dragon types is another bonus.

Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Tactican
EVs: 248 HP/ 252 Atk/ 8 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Sword Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- RoostQuite some changes, see comments posted below. Great for seting up against walls while Leftovers and Roost give him more longevity. Bullet Punch and Bug Bite as STAB moves of choice, sadly there's no room left for U-Turn.

Haxorous @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Sword Dance
- Dragon Dance
Yeah ... Outrage 4tw pretty much. Earthquake for more coverage, DD and SD provide the boost if needed. Changed the Nature from Adamant to Jolly, since once it's boosted it won't matter much anyway since it will OHKO (or at least 2HKO) most things without a reasonable bulk - outspeeding the opponent can be pretty important therefore.
More writing about this setup can be found below in the comments.

Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Fire Blast
Salamence replaced Gliscor as my 6th Poke. Although it won't bring any support moves like Stealth Rocks like Batman did, Salamance is simply another incredible Sweeper. 135 ATK in combination with 100 SPE can wreck havoc pretty easily - especially in combination with DD. Salamence main use in this team is to frighten opposing physical sweepers with Intimidate and force them to switch, set up an DD, then proceed to sweep - simple but efficent imo.
Outrage as the STAB move of choice obviously, Earthquake for more coverage, and Fire Blast to hit stuff like Skarmony or Bronzong, which could wall him otherwise or prevent him of setting up (especially Skarmony with Whirlwind).

Mienshao @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive
- U-Turn
- Hi Jump Kick
- Grass Knot
- Stone Edge (placeholder for HP Ice)
Mienshao replaced Blaziken in my current build - being faster while also having a huge base ATK was the main reason for doing so, Blaziken felt a bit slow sometimes actually.
U-Turn plays well in combination with Regenerator and Life Orb, Hi Jump Kick as STAB move of choice obviously. Grass Knot as another way to get rid of pesky Jellicents, Stone Edge for more coverage.
I'm currently trying to change Stone Egde into HP Ice, since it's probably the better choice most of the time - being able to threaten Dragons and Gliscor is a huge bonus.



Pokes removed from the team:

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Blaziken @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Sword Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Hi Jump Kick
- Earthquake
Actually I'd really like to try out Baton Pass on this one, but it's a bit against the spirit of this team (never switching!). However, passing a SD over to some other sweeper seems pretty strong, maybe I'll test it out instead of EQ.
Brave Bird would be another option, but there isn't much that isn't already covered with FBlitz, Kick and EQ imo.
I also thought about Leftovers to give him a bit more longevity, thoughts?

Well ... there are still some points I probably have to change, but I think the core as it stands could perform at least ok for me.
Really looking forward getting some response, critique and ideas for this team ;)

Thanks for reading and writing, cheers,
surly

 

[wraiders11]

four quick things
1. Your scizor set really isnt great, scizor doesnt get STAB with acro and its not worth the item, so i suggest using a bulky spread with leftovers SD and roost

2. more about scizor, you have plenty of fighting moves, give scizor dual STABs plus roost and SD. Bug Bite is far better than U-turn, it gets a technician boost kicking it up to base 90

3. Glsicor is a decent offensive pokemon, but he really doesnt fit on a HO team, if you want someone similar use Landorus, and you can even run a mixed set with HP ice to help break walls and hit dragons

4. In a HO team, never use a choice item. I know its haxorus but honestly its this simple, use Dragon Dance. after one dance you willl have the band power with the ability to change moves, oh and youll be faster. This is also a caution to not use choice items on any other pokemon (looking at scizor and landorus)

 

[Blue_Star]

Blaziken is uber; if your team is OU, replace it.

 

[Dragone]

I agree with wraiders11 on everything except for maybe the Scizor spread.

Scizor @ Leftovers/Life Orb
248 HP/ 252 Atk/ 8 Spe
Adamant

Swords Dance
Roost/Superpower
Bullet Punch
Bug Bite

Roost and Leftovers will be able to counter some walls. Life Orb and Superpower will be more powerful and offensive. It's your choice.

 

[surly]

Thanks for your replies!

Blaziken is uber; if your team is OU, replace it.

As mentioned in my opening post this team is mainly for battling with my friends, they're fine with Blaziken as long it won't run Speed Boost.

four quick things
1. Your scizor set really isnt great, scizor doesnt get STAB with acro and its not worth the item, so i suggest using a bulky spread with leftovers SD and roost

2. more about scizor, you have plenty of fighting moves, give scizor dual STABs plus roost and SD. Bug Bite is far better than U-turn, it gets a technician boost kicking it up to base 90

Yeah I wasn't sure about my Scizor setup anyway, so I think I'll use your input and change it a bit. Removing U-Turn hurts a bit imho, but SD+Roost seems pretty nice actually, I'll give it a try.

3. Glsicor is a decent offensive pokemon, but he really doesnt fit on a HO team, if you want someone similar use Landorus, and you can even run a mixed set with HP ice to help break walls and hit dragons

Hm, Stealth Rock support was pretty neat though, but I think you're probably right. Landorus however seems like a good fit, however - as stated in the opening post - I'd like to avoid Legendary Pokes if possible since they're a bit though to get in real. However I'll probably going to test Landorus and especially Terrakion if I find some time catching them with proper DV's.

For now I replaced Gliscor with an offensive Salamence, since I think it fits this team quite well. With access to Fire Blast I get another poke that will easily break through Skarmony, so I think this one should be covered. My main fear right now is Jellicent - I haven't met many of them so far, but at least in theory it cout be a bit of a pain since I don't have any super effective moves against it in my whole team.
Honestly though I think that 2 Dragon types with Outrage (for neutral damage) should be enough to handle it, but I couldn't test it so far, so we'll see.

4. In a HO team, never use a choice item. I know its haxorus but honestly its this simple, use Dragon Dance. after one dance you willl have the band power with the ability to change moves, oh and youll be faster. This is also a caution to not use choice items on any other pokemon (looking at scizor and landorus)

You're right, I was going to remove CB from Infernape anyway for the reasons you listed.
Haxorus is another story though - my main fear is running into Skarmony or Bronzong while I'm locked into Outrage, however, I'd try to kill both of them before I bring in Hax if possible. In this case, if Hax runs into one of them though, it won't matter much if I run a DD moveset or a choiced one, since especially Skarmony will simply phaze him out asap he has too many DD.

The other thing is that Hax probably won't survive that long anyway, especially once it's set into Outrage Mode ... loosing another turn for DD seems like a lot in this case.

The main reason I see for using a moveset of SD, DD in combination with EQ and Outrage is that I get more flexibility and the option the set up a brutal monster that will destroy pretty much everything - I doubt it will happen often, but I'll try it out, just to see which moveset works better for this team ;)

I agree with wraiders11 on everything except for maybe the Scizor spread.

Scizor @ Leftovers/Life Orb
248 HP/ 252 Atk/ 8 Spe
Adamant

Swords Dance
Roost/Superpower
Bullet Punch
Bug Bite

Roost and Leftovers will be able to counter some walls. Life Orb and Superpower will be more powerful and offensive. It's your choice.

Yeah I actually like both sets a lot .... I'll probably start with Roost and Lefties instead of Superpower and Orb, mainly cause I already have a ton of fighting moves in my team anyway, so I don't think Superpower is that needed.





Thanks again for all your replies - two more questions though...

1) What you're thinking about the lack of Dual Screens? Are 6 Sweepers a viable choice? Balls against the wall at its best ;)
2) Thoughts about other sweepers like Gyarados or Dragonite? Having a 3rd Dragon in this team seems pretty sexy, thoughts?

 

[The Silent Storm]

Sadly Blaziken is uber (and for good reasons)
You could replace Blaziken with Deoxys-s (even though you say that blaziken is allowed without speed boost, I think that it would be quite a dead slotin your team)
your team lacks a stealth rock user which is very important on Hyper Offensive teams, he can also Taunts enemy stealth rock user, and that may be quite great for your salamence

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Deoxys-S @ Focus Sash Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 Def / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Superpower
- Taunt

Good Luck with the team!

 

[koln2011]

Smogon should of banned blaziken with speed boost rather than blaziken in general.

 

[surly]

Sadly Blaziken is uber (and for good reasons)
You could replace Blaziken with Deoxys-s (even though you say that blaziken is allowed without speed boost, I think that it would be quite a dead slotin your team)
your team lacks a stealth rock user which is very important on Hyper Offensive teams, he can also Taunts enemy stealth rock user, and that may be quite great for your salamence

Hide

Deoxys-S @ Focus Sash Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 Def / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Superpower
- Taunt

Good Luck with the team!

Yeah I thought the same thing actually, Stealth Rocks would be really great for a team like this.

However, I'm not to fancy about Deoxys-S, since it's pretty though to get in real I find. I thought about adding Tyranitar and already had a Gliscor as my 6th poke ... not sure if I should re-add it.

What you're thinking about something like this?

Gliscor @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Stealth Rocks
- Sword Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide / Ice Fang

 

[Dragone]

The last thing you need is another ice weakness, so I would say if you're going with Gliscor to even out your weakness first. I can do a type analysis for your team if you want, and give you suggestions based on that analysis.

 

[That Noob]

The last thing you need is another ice weakness, so I would say if you're going with Gliscor to even out your weakness first. I can do a type analysis for your team if you want, and give you suggestions based on that analysis.

just wanted to say, true HO teams don't care about synergy. on my HO team, i have 4 water weaks, and have never been swept by someone wielding water attacks. Stuff like Rotom-W and Starmie are whittled down until they die, and besides the whole point of HO is to sacrifice all your sweepers for one to break through.

OT: For true HO you need to only hit one side of the spectrum with 5 set up sweepers. For your lead I highly recommend Deoxys-S with Screens over DD Mence.. I know you said w/out screens but Deo-S w/ screens makes sweeping SO much easier. On Infernape I would also use Swords Dance along with Flare Blitz, Mach Punch, and Close Combat. Also use Agility on Blaziken if you won't take it off and are using Blaze. Use it over Swords Dance.
Set:
Deoxys-S @ Light Clay
252 HP, 252 Speed, 4 Def/SpD
Jolly (+ Spe, - Sp. Atk)
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Taunt
-Stealth Rock

 

[Dragone]

just wanted to say, true HO teams don't care about synergy. on my HO team, i have 4 water weaks, and have never been swept by someone wielding water attacks. Stuff like Rotom-W and Starmie are whittled down until they die, and besides the whole point of HO is to sacrifice all your sweepers for one to break through.

You're right, but you can be even more reckless in offense when you have few common weaknesses. HO teams need good synergy as well, and although it's not as emphasized it's still necessary. You can't tell me that it's not easier to sweep when your opponent has no moves that are "super effective" against your Poke.

 

[surly]

The last thing you need is another ice weakness, so I would say if you're going with Gliscor to even out your weakness first. I can do a type analysis for your team if you want, and give you suggestions based on that analysis.

True thing, however I'm not too scared of that Ice weakness actually ... there aren't many pokes I can think of (beside Cloyster) than run STAB Ice moves and aren't vulnerable against Dragon or Fighting moves.

Getting a analysis would be great to be honest, but since this team changes about twice a day I think we'll just wait 1-2 more days and see on which 6 pokes I'll finaly settle down - thanks a lot though :)

OT: For true HO you need to only hit one side of the spectrum with 5 set up sweepers. For your lead I highly recommend Deoxys-S with Screens over DD Mence.. I know you said w/out screens but Deo-S w/ screens makes sweeping SO much easier.

The main reason I don't pack any DualScreener is - as stated above - that the two best pokes at doing this (Deoxys-S and Uxie) are pretty though to get for me right now, since I can't really find someone to trade for them with good natures and stats. I though have an Uxie, but it's nature and stats are garbage .... not so useful ;)

If I'd had to run a DualScreener the only options I have right now would be Mesprit or some non-legenedary Poke like Metagross or Gallade. I thought about using Metagross, but compared Deoxys-S it's not that hot either imo, but I may be wrong.

Maybe Metagross would be more useful than I'm thinking, haven't played with him much in BW, so I'm not so sure if he would fit that well in this team. In case someone has some experience with this bulky guy please let me know.

On Infernape I would also use Swords Dance along with Flare Blitz, Mach Punch, and Close Combat.

I like the idea of having another Sword Dancer, but you're sure about Mach Punch? I mean Scizor and Lucario already bring two first striking moves, so wouldn't a move like Stone Edge for more coverage be more effective?

Also use Agility on Blaziken if you won't take it off and are using Blaze. Use it over Swords Dance.

Good idea, while his 120 base Atk are already pretty nice, his "slow" 80 base Spe feels a bit underwhelming to be honest.
Actually I'm thinking about replacing it, since without Speed Boost it pretty much feels like a worse (=slower) Infernape without much else going for it .... maybe I'll remove Blaziken and add a Dual Screen Metagross, just to test it.


/edit: thoughts about this Metagross moveset as a replacement for Blaziken?

Metagross @ Light Clay
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Stealth Rocks
- Meteor Mash / Hammer Arm / Bullet Punch

 

[surly]

Updates:

-) changed Infernape's Life Orb into an Expert Belt
-) replaced Blaziken with Mienshao ...

Mienshao @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive
- U-Turn
- Hi Jump Kick
- Grass Knot
- Stone Edge (placeholder for HP Ice)

... Blaziken felt a bit slow most of the time, needing one turn to set up Agility wasn't that great actually. Therefore I'd like to try out something different with this Mienshao.