The Everything NHL Thread

[DM]

Actually, Miller never got a concussion. Not saying they lied to try to get Lucic punished and give a slumping Miller some time off, but...wait actually yes I am saying that.

Jesus christ, you're ridiculous.

I'm done with Shanahan. That guy is a complete joke. I felt like he had potential and got off to a decent start, but this year has been a complete joke. Lucic, a known dirty player, gets nothing for skating into Miller and causing him to miss multiple games due to injury. Tootoo, a known dirty player, gets PUSHED into the same goalie and receives a 2 game suspension? It is 1000000% obvious that Tootoo would've been able to change his direction to skate across the top of the crease if Ehrhoff was not pushing him towards the goalline. Come on man. Stuff like this makes me not even want to watch the NHL. How often do you see a game where a player gets pushed into the goalie and nothing happens? Answer: Every freaking game.

I find it beautiful that Shanahan, in the video, describes the play EXACTLY how I did in this thread. Vindication is mine.

Lucic should've gotten 5mins + game + suspension, there isn't a doubt about that. But if you REALLY wanted to be cynical about this, you could say Shanahan is giving Tootoo the suspension he should've given Lucic in an attempt to save face. But as far as I'm concerned, this was still completely deserved.

I agree that the Ehrhoff push wasn't a strong one, but he clearly angled Tootoo away from where he wanted to go. If you just pay attention to Tootoo, you can tell that he wants to make a move towards the top of the crease, but Ehrhoff removes that potential ice away from him.

If you start looking at around :35 on this link: http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=140163

You can see that Tootoo is angling his skates upwards, but when Ehrhoff makes contact, it prevents him from keeping that upward path.

It's obvious we will never agree on our interpretations of the play. On the reverse angle, like Synre and Shanahan said, you can very clearly see (especially when it's super slow motion/stopped altogether) that Tootoo, after the puck is poked away, looks up to see where he's going and then makes NO effort whatsoever to change his destination. Plus, he jumped into Miller, only making it much worse. If you don't find it dirty, you should at least find it dumb.

 

[Heysup]

Luongo out again? As a semi-canuck fan, I'm very happy about this.

 

[Eraddd]

Luongo out again? As a semi-canuck fan, I'm very happy about this.

No, he's actually fine. And if you'd bothered to watch the Colorado game, you'd have seen that he made some great saves, and got 3rd star, without even finishing the game. I love it when people read off scoresheets and stats to prove their points. And I find it pretty despicable you're very happy that Luongo got hit in the collarbone by a slapshot. The fuck is your problem?

And knee on knee hits are fucking despicable.

 

[Heysup]

Reading off scoresheets like "Schneider winning 6 in a row with back-to-back shut outs while Luongo could barely break even"?

Obviously I don't wish any actual serious misfortune on Luongo, but Schneider is playing much better than Luongo even though Luongo is starting to look like an actual NHL goalie in recent games. If you look at statistics (GASP PLEASE NO NOT STATISTICS!!!), Schneider has been the goalie that you want in if you want to win.

"I love it when" people rant about how good their favourite players are and ignore the results completely. I mean, could you imagine someone watching the games and looking at stats as well? ? ? ?

Side note: SIT DOWN BOSTON.

 

[CaptainKishimoto]

So Seguin gets scratched because he missed breakfast, but that's not even the best part:

@HackswithHaggs
Joe Haggerty
Tyler Seguin said his alarm was set to Boston time rather than Winnipeg time & that's why he was late this morning

Apparently Seguin is a master liar.

 

[Eraddd]

Reading off scoresheets like "Schneider winning 6 in a row with back-to-back shut outs while Luongo could barely break even"?

That's not even correct. Luongo had won games against LA, NYI before becoming injured, and Schneider deservedly taking the starting spot for the next 7 games. After Schneider regressed, Luongo played well against Calgary and played excellently against Colorado. Clearly breaking even right? Simply reinforces the fact that you have never even sat down to properly watch the Canucks play, but believe "HIGHLIGHTS SHOW EVERYTHING" "BOX SCORE FTW."

Obviously I don't wish any actual serious misfortune on Luongo, but Schneider is playing much better than Luongo even though Luongo is starting to look like an actual NHL goalie in recent games. If you look at statistics (GASP PLEASE NO NOT STATISTICS!!!), Schneider has been the goalie that you want in if you want to win.

1. Gives me more reason to believe you haven't watched any games

2. If we're going by statistics, the Vezina-nominated goalie, who has had a career GAA of 2.50, and SV% of .919 is what any team would go with. I'm not going to claim that Luongo is an elite goaltender at the moment, but your claims that Schneider, who's been unproven, and has only been giving a starter role for a short period of time, the starting position, while trading away Luongo, is clearly absurd.

I don't see how this is arguable. In a few years, as Luongo becomes older, and his play regresses, while Schneider reaches his (potential) peak, then yes, Schneider will obviously be the better goaltender. However, at the present, any team would go with the proven goaltender, as opposed to going with an unproven one, especially with their window of opportunity closing, as the Sedins get older.

"I love it when" people rant about how good their favourite players are and ignore the results completely. I mean, could you imagine someone watching the games and looking at stats as well? ? ? ?

I don't think you understand statistics as well as you think you do! I never claimed that Schneider didn't deserve the starting spot in those 7 games. He was phenomenal, until the Nashville game, where both goalies and defense shit the bed. But your inability to grasp the fact that goalie stats are not simply the product of their sole play, as opposed to the play of the team as a whole (Fun fact, Schneider had a mediocre October too! I don't see anyone talking about that).

You call my bias into play, when ironically, all most Luongo-detractors have to go on is his historically terrible October (while making it up with his fantastical regular season stats the rest of the way!) and his terrible stats in the Stanley Cup Finals (where our anemic offense scored a whopping 9 goals, while we had about 4 starting defenseman injured/suspended, while Luongo still managed to post 2 shutouts). Other than that, I fail to see his "TERRIBLE PLAY."

Side note: SIT DOWN BOSTON.

I don't see Buffalo fans such as DM calling for Millers head when Enroth was playing phenomenally, while Miller had a bad October. I don't see Nashville fans calling for Rinne's head, even though Nashville has lost 6 out of 8, while Rinne is sporting a Luongo-like-October-season stat.

And yet, fairweather Canucks fans continue to call for Luongo's head. The Canucks have historically never had a Luongo-like goaltender since the days of Kirk Maclean (and even then, Luongo still can be considered better!) It seems Canucks fans forget the days of Cloutier, Irbe, Potvin, and our historical "goalie graveyard." We're willing to throw away one of the best assets for something unproven because "HE HAS SEVEN GAMES UNDER HIS BELT." Sad really.

 

[Justin8649]

Further proof of how painful it has been to be a Hurricanes fan this year:

Carolina's Mike Murphy is the first goalie in NHL history to record a loss before allowing a goal.

 

[Heysup]

I don't see Buffalo fans such as DM calling for Millers head when Enroth was playing phenomenally, while Miller had a bad October. I don't see Nashville fans calling for Rinne's head, even though Nashville has lost 6 out of 8, while Rinne is sporting a Luongo-like-October-season stat.

I wonder why that is....

And yet, fairweather Canucks fans continue to call for Luongo's head. The Canucks have historically never had a Luongo-like goaltender since the days of Kirk Maclean (and even then, Luongo still can be considered better!) It seems Canucks fans forget the days of Cloutier, Irbe, Potvin, and our historical "goalie graveyard." We're willing to throw away one of the best assets for something unproven because "HE HAS SEVEN GAMES UNDER HIS BELT." Sad really.

If you don't think Schneider is proven, maybe it's not me who needs to sit down and watch Canucks game. To Luongo lovers, Schneider was just an AHL goalie playing in the NHL and always will be. If you had ever watched a Manitoba Moose (RIP) game, which you haven't, you'd have seen long ago that Schneider was an NHL caliber goalie playing in the AHL. Regardless of how good or bad Luongo is, Schneider has proven himself to be better.

Your older statistics hold very little weight than his current inconsistent play right now. If he gets back into it and becomes more consistent throughout the season, maybe he'll end up just shrugging off his bad start. However if you want to win right now, you want to play the goalie who's winning more games. Luongo has his past stats to hide behind, but their value is decreasing very quickly.

Consider this, Schneider is too old to be a backup right now and he's undeniably good enough to be a #1 goalie. I promise that the Canucks won't be this lucky next year; they'll have to pick one of the two for salary reasons. Who do you think they'll keep when it really matters?

 

[Vineon]

The Canucks have historically never had a Luongo-like goaltender since the days of Kirk Maclean (

Kirk McLean was like the last true standing-style goalie in the NHL (other than perhaps Sean Burke).

Although he did have a great run in 94, I feel like he was easily outshined by all the goalies starting to play butterfly style. Not so sure I'd ever have him amongst the great.

 

[popemobile]

Further proof of how painful it has been to be a Hurricanes fan this year:

Carolina's Mike Murphy is the first goalie in NHL history to record a loss before allowing a goal.

explain

So Seguin gets scratched because he missed breakfast, but that's not even the best part:
Apparently Seguin is a master liar.

"I set my hangover to Boston time instead of Winnipeg time coach, my b"

 

[DM]

I don't see Buffalo fans such as DM calling for Millers head when Enroth was playing phenomenally, while Miller had a bad October. I don't see Nashville fans calling for Rinne's head, even though Nashville has lost 6 out of 8, while Rinne is sporting a Luongo-like-October-season stat.

That's because I, personally, am not mentally retarded. I did, however, have friends who were saying "trade Miller" back when he was slumping and Enroth couldn't lose (some even started saying it during last year's playoffs). Then Enroth became the man and didn't continue his excellent play, and those friends finally shut the fuck up.

It's a natural knee-jerk reaction that all too many sports fans have. We have put so much importance on "win now at all costs" that so many people lose sight of the bigger picture. Case in point, Canucks. Jesus christ, Luongo is the only reason you won 3 games in the Finals last season, stop trying to kick the man to the curb.

 

[Eraddd]

Kirk McLean was like the last true standing-style goalie in the NHL (other than perhaps Sean Burke).

Although he did have a great run in 94, I feel like he was easily outshined by all the goalies starting to play butterfly style. Not so sure I'd ever have him amongst the great.

Oh no, I agree with you. My only point was that the Canucks had never had a great goalie except for Kirk Maclean (which kind of shows how sad it is). In his era, where stand up was prominent, he was definitely one of the better goaltenders, but in the era of the butterfly, he would have definitely been outshadowed.

That's because I, personally, am not mentally retarded. I did, however, have friends who were saying "trade Miller" back when he was slumping and Enroth couldn't lose (some even started saying it during last year's playoffs). Then Enroth became the man and didn't continue his excellent play, and those friends finally shut the fuck up.

It's a natural knee-jerk reaction that all too many sports fans have. We have put so much importance on "win now at all costs" that so many people lose sight of the bigger picture. Case in point, Canucks. Jesus christ, Luongo is the only reason you won 3 games in the Finals last season, stop trying to kick the man to the curb.

Agreed.

 

[Eraddd]

I wonder why that is....

I stand corrected. Read DM's posts. Perhaps fairweather Canucks fans are not alone!

If you don't think Schneider is proven, maybe it's not me who needs to sit down and watch Canucks game. To Luongo lovers, Schneider was just an AHL goalie playing in the NHL and always will be. If you had ever watched a Manitoba Moose (RIP) game, which you haven't, you'd have seen long ago that Schneider was an NHL caliber goalie playing in the AHL. Regardless of how good or bad Luongo is, Schneider has proven himself to be better.

Right, because a total of 13 games this year, and 24 games last year shows that he can be a starter better than Luongo. I'm actually curious here: are you fucking kidding me?

Oh I'm sorry, are you trying to call me out for not watching the Moose? I have watched Hodgson, Schroeder, Rodin, Grabner, and most of their prospects when they were with the Moose, and I still follow the Chicago Wolves, who are the Canucks' new farm team.

Heh, furthermore, if you had actually bothered to pay attention to the Canucks' goalie prospects, Eddie Lack is performing exactly on par with how Schneider performed in the AHL. I guess, trade Schneider and Luongo and call up Lack huh?

I find it hilarious you're comparing the style of the AHL to the NHL. There are hundreds of players who succeed in the AHL, and yet, can't find their play in the NHL. Schneider's play in the AHL does not mean that he will transition into a full starter in the NHL.

What you're saying essentially is: Because Schneider played like an "NHL" goalie (whatever the hell that means) in the AHL, he's clearly better than Luongo. Flawless logic!

Your older statistics hold very little weight than his current inconsistent play right now. If he gets back into it and becomes more consistent throughout the season, maybe he'll end up just shrugging off his bad start. However if you want to win right now, you want to play the goalie who's winning more games. Luongo has his past stats to hide behind, but their value is decreasing very quickly.

Hey I think I heard the same story last year. Oh wait, and then Luongo went without a loss in regulation from December to March.

Consider this, Schneider is too old to be a backup right now and he's undeniably good enough to be a #1 goalie. I promise that the Canucks won't be this lucky next year; they'll have to pick one of the two for salary reasons. Who do you think they'll keep when it really matters?

For Christ's sakes, get off Schneider's dick. He's 25, and hasn't even played a full NHL career, and you're claiming he's the second coming of Jesus Christ of the Canucks.

They'll have to pick one or the other. It'll either be Schneider chooses to resign (slim as fuck), or we'll have to ship him out, because Gillis has shown that Luongo is his man, and quite frankly, isn't as short sighted as casual fairweather Canucks fans.

I don't know what's worse: your irrational hatred for Luongo, or your irrational hard-on for Schneider.

 

[Justin8649]

explain

Murphy replaced Ward in net once the Flames went up 6-4. Hurricanes go with the extra skater with about 2 minutes left and give up an empty netter to go down 7-4. Hurricanes score 2 more goals and end up losing 7-6. The empty netter was the game winner, so Murphy got the loss with a perfect save percentage.

 

[Heysup]

I wish you would just multi-quote.....

Right, because a total of 13 games this year, and 24 games last year shows that he can be a starter better than Luongo. I'm actually curious here: are you fucking kidding me?

Rofl. Which is it, do stats matter or do they not? I think you're confusing the relevance of past stats and current stats. They should be applied differently.

"If you've watched the canucks games" you'd notice that it isn't just a fluke of nature that Schneider is winning these games where Luongo wasn't. He is currently playing better than Luongo. I didn't even say he was as good or better as a #1 goalie. He's just playing better than him right now and he's only getting better. How much better can Luongo get? How much bigger can your Luongo boner get?

Oh I'm sorry, are you trying to call me out for not watching the Moose? I have watched Hodgson, Schroeder, Rodin, Grabner, and most of their prospects when they were with the Moose, and I still follow the Chicago Wolves, who are the Canucks' new farm team.

Heh, furthermore, if you had actually bothered to pay attention to the Canucks' goalie prospects, Eddie Lack is performing exactly on par with how Schneider performed in the AHL. I guess, trade Schneider and Luongo and call up Lack huh?

Again, digging yourself into a hole. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt for not watching the Moose because you would have to be oblivious to think Schneider belonged there.

I haven't been following the AHL at all since the moose left so I'm not going to give the latter comment a legitimate answer. If Lack is "exactly as good as Schneider" then all that means is that the Canucks are going to be set for a while.

I find it hilarious you're comparing the style of the AHL to the NHL. There are hundreds of players who succeed in the AHL, and yet, can't find their play in the NHL. Schneider's play in the AHL does not mean that he will transition into a full starter in the NHL.

I find it hilarious you're ignoring player's success in the AHL with regards to the NHL. There are hundreds of players who succeed in the AHL and then continue to grow and succeed in the NHL. Schneider's play in the AHL does not necessarily mean that he will translate into a full starter.

It sure as fuck doesn't mean he won't become a starter. I don't even believe that you believe your reasoning makes any sense. I sure hope not anyway.

What you're saying essentially is: Because Schneider played like an "NHL" goalie (whatever the hell that means) in the AHL, he's clearly better than Luongo. Flawless logic!

I definitely didn't say that Schneider is playing better than Luongo directly based on the face that he's playing better than Luongo (in the NHL). Nope.

For Christ's sakes, get off Schneider's dick. He's 25, and hasn't even played a full NHL career, and you're claiming he's the second coming of Jesus Christ of the Canucks.

Hmm this is starting to make more sense. You don't realize that claiming I said something completely exaggerated from what I said does not mean I actually said it. Nor does it even make you right. It's desperate.

Schneider is playing better than Luongo (I would say this is almost undeniable but I guess you can keep being ignorant and still deny it). That's all I'm saying. I think the Canucks currently have a higher chance to win with Schneider in over Luongo. That could change.

EDIT: And yea that sucks for Carolina.......

EDIT2: I feel like this is a waste of time at this point.

 

[Buzzcut]

Not going to get too much in the middle of this, but Cory Schneider had every meaningful Moose goalie record as of last year (keep in mind former Moose goalies include Alex Auld and Johan Hedberg), so I highly doubt Eddie Lack is having that good of a year...

 

[Heysup]

The 'canes looked pretty strong tonight. Looks like Staal is back and Skinner still has his dangles.


EDIT: Yea, Eraddd, are you even watching the games? He's lucky that his team bailed him out so hard.

 

[CaptainKishimoto]

Habs acquire Kaberle for Spacek. Why do the Habs like taking in awful contracts?

 

[Justin8649]

Habs acquire Kaberle for Spacek. Why do the Habs like taking in awful contracts?

So good.

 

[Vineon]

Why do the Habs like taking in awful contracts?

His contract is very similar to Spacek's. Montréal just traded one awful contract for another. Spacek's tenure in Montréal was terrible, I don't see this as a gain for Carolina and I'm amused Yahoo Fantasy calls it a 'firesale' considering they free little money from it.

 

[Justin8649]

His contract is very similar to Spacek's. Montréal just traded one awful contract for another. Spacek's tenure in Montréal was terrible, I don't see this as a gain for Carolina and I'm amused Yahoo Fantasy calls it a 'firesale' considering they free little money from it.

You do realize Spacek's contract ends after this season, right? Kaberle's lasts for 2 more seasons after this one. At the very least, Spacek can be a healthy scratch for the rest of the year and then he is off the books. That won't be the case with Kaberle.

 

[Vineon]

I thought there was one more year to it but apparently, you are right.

 

[CaptainKishimoto]

And it'll probably be hard to win Martin's favor (as he would need to be able to play defence). I've been pretty hard on Howson but Gauthier has done some extremely questionable moves in this season alone. If the team doesn't make it to the playoffs, it'll be his head on a platter.

 

[DM]

Spacek overperformed in Buffalo to get that Habs contract, so good for him. He's not bad, but not worth the money he's getting (and really, who is these days).

Now, just to get rid of Gomez somehow...

 

[Eraddd]

I wish you would just multi-quote.....


Rofl. Which is it, do stats matter or do they not? I think you're confusing the relevance of past stats and current stats. They should be applied differently.

You're claiming that stats do matter, and you continue to bring Luongo's October stats into it. My point is that in the long run, he's proven to be a solid goaltender, if you look at his stats as a whole. Furthermore, if you want to cherry pick "individal timeslots" (because it seems like that's what most Luongo detractors are trying!) try looking at his January to March stats.

I'm claiming that Luongo historically has had a bad October for the past 4 years because of 1)his overall poorer play compared to the rest of his season and 2)the team's overall play (if you're watching the Canucks in October, it feels they're skating the 09/10 Colorado Avalanches out there). You continue to argue that "HIS EARLY STATS ARE TERRIBLE SO TRADE HIM NOW," but my point is that Luongo has always bounced back into a stronger form.

"If you've watched the canucks games" you'd notice that it isn't just a fluke of nature that Schneider is winning these games where Luongo wasn't. He is currently playing better than Luongo. I didn't even say he was as good or better as a #1 goalie. He's just playing better than him right now and he's only getting better. How much better can Luongo get? How much bigger can your Luongo boner get?

I do not deny the nature of Schneider's play. However, the kid has played less than a regular season, and suddenly, we're supposed to give him starter status and trade the starter we've been relying on for the four past years (with success) away? That's a terrible kneejerk reaction.

And your point that Schneider is playing better than Luongo is partially addressed in my point above: Luongo always gets better. I'm arguing based on inductive logic, but if we had the exact same conversation last year (and I've had it with many people last year also!) any idiot could see that Luongo had a great season.

Again, digging yourself into a hole. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt for not watching the Moose because you would have to be oblivious to think Schneider belonged there.

Jesus Christ. I never denied Schneider is a great goalie, nor that he has a great upside. Stop putting words in my mouth. My point is that having a kneejerk reaction from some fairweather Canucks fans in trading Luongo because suddenly Schneider "has potential" (in the AHL no less) is the worst possible move.

I haven't been following the AHL at all since the moose left so I'm not going to give the latter comment a legitimate answer. If Lack is "exactly as good as Schneider" then all that means is that the Canucks are going to be set for a while.

Which is exactly my point.

I find it hilarious you're ignoring player's success in the AHL with regards to the NHL. There are hundreds of players who succeed in the AHL and then continue to grow and succeed in the NHL. Schneider's play in the AHL does not necessarily mean that he will translate into a full starter.
It sure as fuck doesn't mean he won't become a starter. I don't even believe that you believe your reasoning makes any sense. I sure hope not anyway.

You do not understand the words that are coming out of my mouth (or on the screen) do you? My point is that his success in the AHL does not necessarily translate into success in the NHL. He has played less than half a season's worth of games and, while playing great, doesn't prove squat at the moment.

I definitely didn't say that Schneider is playing better than Luongo directly based on the face that he's playing better than Luongo (in the NHL). Nope.

You're arguing for a trade because in a span of about less than 10 games, Schneider has outperformed Luongo, in a month where, I have repeatedly stressed, he has performed poorly.

No one is DENYING Schneider has been playing well. Let me stress this fact again. However, to make such a huge move with such a small sample size is statistical Armageddon, and one would have to be a mathematically shortsighted fool to not see this.

Hmm this is starting to make more sense. You don't realize that claiming I said something completely exaggerated from what I said does not mean I actually said it. Nor does it even make you right. It's desperate.

Schneider is playing better than Luongo (I would say this is almost undeniable but I guess you can keep being ignorant and still deny it). That's all I'm saying. I think the Canucks currently have a higher chance to win with Schneider in over Luongo. That could change.

And let me stress again that Schneider is playing better than Luongo. However, you're missing the entire point of this: You do not trade a franchise goalie on a kneejerk reaction because suddenly their backup is playing better than them. Players go on hot streaks all the time and they have their cold streaks as well. Luongo has played great in the past years, while Schneider is relatively unproven still. And yet you're claiming we should still trade Luongo. How is this not absurd?

And as for your comment about his game in Montreal, he played a great second half, and played well in the Shootout, so I don't see where you're coming there. The first goal was a borderline interference call, and our defense did nothing to clear the crease.

As DM said, most non-retarded fans don't have kneejerk reactions and call for their starter's head when thing's aren't going well for him.

Also, ouch when Rutherford basically said he regretted signing Kaberle. Going from a covetted puck moving defenseman to a terrible contract.