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NOC Medieval Mafia - Game Over: Majora's Maskians Win

We've got enough people that have admitted to having a role that I figured it wouldn't matter if someone admitted to being hooked.

Edit: Also, it would be kind of interesting if someone said they received hook flavor without having a night action.
 
I guess now is as good a time as any to explain myself.

I am just a regular person who minds a shop, as such I have intrinsic knowledge of items. (Sorry for being wordy here, but I have to paraphrase.)

I knew from night 0 there were 7 items in play:

The parchment, the bell and mask that I have already described, as well as a black cloak, a round boulder and a magic wand.

There was also 1 "Fresh milk" night 0, and I was passed it by the end of the night.

Day 1 I called out 2 items, primarily to tell users of my role (whoever held the bell and parchment knew without a doubt that I had information about the game, which would give some authority to my arguments and some evidence later on when I claimed fully). I did not want to claim fully because, as evidenced by Snike's stupidity, it would make me a huge target and I would be offed quickly.

I claimed the bell and parchment specifically because I believed they were the most likely to be on villagers. If the items were on mafia I would be convincing the wrong people that I had information about the game. Given what Snike has told us, I think the Mask and one of the Magic wand or black cloak are on the mafia. Feel free to speculate what each item does, but I only know what the milk does.

There was one fresh milk night 0, and I recieved notice that another had been produced at the end of night 1. Hence the cow post. As part of my role I receive notifications when the items change hands, or if items are produced or disappear. I have no reason to believe the milk is LonLon milk.

I received notice that the parchment, the mask, and the second fresh milk changed hands last night. The parchment is obvious, asking anything about the milk would only reveal the cow. Asking who has the second milk doesn't really provide us anything interesting.

If the mask is in fact a recruitment item, we may need to worry about who was targeted with it. I think it's most likely someone in the group previously mentioned (aska/zorbees/paperblade/yeti) or possibly jumpluff. I do not see a reason the mafia would just pass it amongst themselves.

I would recommend, as I already said, do not claim to have been hooked. Me and Ullar will probably be the next two hits, which should give the inspector plenty of time to find something good. Though I do ask him to consider revealing himself during the next day.

If you do believe my claim, make sure you do not make it obvious you only agree because you have an item.
 
Hi, anyone who contacted Ullar should contact me I'll try not to be an idiot.

I've been reading through the thread, but it's going to take a long time to trawl through all of it so I'll just point some stuff out that makes me wary of certain users.

Rediamond

I'm going to concentrate mainly on his #752, #754, and #756. I know that Yeti already posted some stuff about these, but I'm completely perplexed and want to figure out why he posted this and what the purpose of these posts were.

In #752, he basically admits to claiming a role that can't be counter-claimed (#754 points to vanillager ?_?) and says that he's shady because of that. Then, he states that he's contradicted himself, and says that it's not a big loss for village if he gets mislynched, which is why he's pointing out how suspicious he is. #756 essentially is a "why did nobody pay attention to me" post.

The only thing that I can really deduce from these posts is that he's either a) wanting attention, and/or b) wanting to get lynched. I have no clue which one of these it is (probably both if I had to guess), but this seems so strange >_>

MrcRanger97 / DetroitLolcat

Stuff comes up, sure, but spare us some time? Two and four days, respectively, is a pretty big chunk of time.

==

This is all I can do for the moment. If you want me to elaborate on Rediamond, I can do so; I guess I'll try and answer any questions you want to ask as well, but I doubt that I can be of much use.
 
A few brief thoughts:

1) @Paperblade: Not to sound over-defensive, but there's no way TL could have been truly "buddying" US, right, since that requires two mafiosos? (Correct me if I'm wrong.) In my personal defense, I thought his concern for the village seemed genuine, and my gut turned out to be right. Look at me go. ^_^

2) Hi Engineer. :D

3) Like most others, I don't see any good reason for the mafia to stop persuading Leethoof, unless they were suddenly really afraid of who Brammi would vote for, OR they wanted to try and clear Brammi as village, since, as jumpluff points out here, Brammi had quite a deal of enmity with two users who are now confirmed clean. Of course, this then brings up the question of why the mafia would kill Snike and simultaneously try and cover up for it, or, for that matter, what prompted them to kill Snike in the first place. Also, why choose Ullar as the redirect victim when they previously chose UncleSam, a huge subject of discussion at the time, especially since Ullar didn't reveal his role until D3? My best guess: randing.

4) Rediamond seems almost as suicidal as Ditto did D1; it almost seems like he doesn't want to ask to be subbed but still doesn't want to keep playing. Outside of that, I can't think of any good reason for this.

5) The lynch is on Quagsires at the moment, but I would like to follow in the vein of B_T and @@Lynch Crux@@ purely for talking purposes.

That is all.
 
billymills said:
If the mask is in fact a recruitment item, we may need to worry about who was targeted with it. I think it's most likely someone in the group previously mentioned (aska/zorbees/paperblade/yeti) or possibly jumpluff. I do not see a reason the mafia would just pass it amongst themselves.
Click to expand...

Recruitment item is gay. But I suppose we may have to watch for behavioural changes. It would be interesting if it were me since I subbed in yesterday and then the item was passed. Perhaps they were biding their time to see whom would be ideal to recruit. However, it may also be some kind of safeguarding item. Still think it's worth being alert for town->scum reads and so forth.

zorbees said:
Can someone (probably jumpluff) address what makes me scummy in one post so it is easy to find for me?
Click to expand...

Sure! I am not gonna do a post-by-post analysis since you have very many of them, but I have reread them all in order to make this post. Underline is so you notice the important points I am making, un-underlined stuff is my reasoning.

zorbees

The most bandied about reason for accusing you is what Paperblade said: you post a lot but don't say much. It makes you go unnoticed somewhat, especially if you don't offer many substantial opinions that can be analysed and discussed, and it also makes you very hard to read. In general you mostly point out flaws in other people's posts and ask questions, making it hard for attention to shift on anything you've said. The latter two behaviours are good but only if you back it up with your own material.

The problem isn't so much that you are busy so much as you haven't posted as many meaningful opinions of your own as it would appear by your posting volume (I know these posts take time but you are clearly active in the thread and can surely offer a bit more than that?) and I do take issue with some of the ones you have. :/ You claimed to US (#100) that you're not too active and posty in NOC games. You don't need to post tl;drs and I prefer it to you going inactive but as the fifth or sixth (I forget) most prolific contributor to this thread this excuse doesn't hold much water for me.

I found your vote on UncleSam D1 extremely scummy, and I saw your RVSing as pretty unhelpful despite your attempts to justify it as such, since you didn't provide any reasoning so why would an inactive come out, not to mention there was already discussion going, and you didn't provide a replacement for it either. I also took issue with your opinion on announcer and the difference of opinion isn't why I'm concerned (will explain soon).

I don't like informational bandwagons as it's an easy excuse for scum to pass off the effects of a mislynch. I would rather pick the lynch target whose lynch provides more information between two relatively even targets, but that's no replacement for risk analysis and, like I said, it's a simple copout. UncleSam was a significant contributor even if everyone ended up thinking he was scum. Additionally, it was very early for D1 (indefinite length) to start what looked like a wagon to me. You did somewhat address these points but I didn't find your defence of them really valid.

The announcer thing was because you seemed way too relaxed about the announcer dying. The announcer isn't important, no, but comments like that come across as coaxing them to come out saying their death doesn't really matter. It wouldn't matter to an experienced player but someone new like, oh, Lady Salamence (who ended up ignoring everyone but US anyway so it didn't end up mattering) could easily interpret something subtle in that post as 'it's okay for me to come out since announcer's role doesn't matter'. Better the announcer than any other PR but I didn't like how your post read to me at least.

You have posted some useful things and points I agree with (#103, #154, #172, #352, #388 are some good examples), but in general most everything else you posted was either null (mostly) or scum read for me, with a few pro-town posts I liked such as, and I don't like such a null-scum lean since it makes me feel like you are trying to hide. Your willingness to respond to me is helpful though. I admit am especially interested in drawing you out of your shell because of your involvement in the Cereza lynch and would like to see you address it as best as possible. I'd be more interested in what you've learned from Cereza's flip than a defence of it though, because you were very assured of Cereza's alliance and thus I assume her flip means you have to reevaluate your opinions, and no doubt some of these would be interesting :O

Thank you for answering my post.
 
jumpluff said:
Sure! I am not gonna do a post-by-post analysis since you have very many of them, but I have reread them all in order to make this post. Underline is so you notice the important points I am making, un-underlined stuff is my reasoning.

zorbees

The most bandied about reason for accusing you is what Paperblade said: you post a lot but don't say much. It makes you go unnoticed somewhat, especially if you don't offer many substantial opinions that can be analysed and discussed, and it also makes you very hard to read. In general you mostly point out flaws in other people's posts and ask questions, making it hard for attention to shift on anything you've said. The latter two behaviours are good but only if you back it up with your own material.

I may not have said as much as billymills, yourself, unclesam, etc, but i believe i have contributed enough. I've given reads on other players, and thoughts on common topics. I suppose I could update these but regarding the common topics end, I generally do better when responding to specific questions then just trying to pick and choose what is important and what isn't. This has the added benefit of making it so that I can avoid the whole "he ignored x so he is buddying x" and all of that random nonsense. I also find it hypocritical that no one is calling Paperblade out for this very same issue, and that Paperblade is getting away with calling me out in a couple of one-sentence posts when he hasn't really posted anything of note.

The problem isn't so much that you are busy so much as you haven't posted as many meaningful opinions of your own as it would appear by your posting volume (I know these posts take time but you are clearly active in the thread and can surely offer a bit more than that?) and I do take issue with some of the ones you have. :/ You claimed to US (#100) that you're not too active and posty in NOC games. You don't need to post tl;drs and I prefer it to you going inactive but as the fifth or sixth (I forget) most prolific contributor to this thread this excuse doesn't hold much water for me.

Not sure how this is a point against me. I'm scummy because rather than not contributing at all, I'm contributing some? I'm honestly trying to help, but I don't always have something to say other than a nitpick, correction, or something of the like.

I found your vote on UncleSam D1 extremely scummy, and I saw your RVSing as pretty unhelpful despite your attempts to justify it as such, since you didn't provide any reasoning so why would an inactive come out, not to mention there was already discussion going, and you didn't provide a replacement for it either. I also took issue with your opinion on announcer and the difference of opinion isn't why I'm concerned (will explain soon).

I don't get why RVS votes have to be explained; this isn't a beginner game, people should be familiar with how NOC works by now. My vote on Sam d1 was basically the same reason as billymills' jump on my vote: I wanted to see if anyone would try to sneak onto the bandwagon. I'd stated numerous times before Cereza's death that I thought US/Cereza was town, so this goes in line with the reasoning for my vote on Sam. My reasoning was weak for the vote, but that is because I had a ton of trouble coming up with realistic reasoning for wanting to vote out UncleSam. I will address the announcer issue in the next part as you did.

I don't like informational bandwagons as it's an easy excuse for scum to pass off the effects of a mislynch. I would rather pick the lynch target whose lynch provides more information between two relatively even targets, but that's no replacement for risk analysis and, like I said, it's a simple copout. UncleSam was a significant contributor even if everyone ended up thinking he was scum. Additionally, it was very early for D1 (indefinite length) to start what looked like a wagon to me. You did somewhat address these points but I didn't find your defence of them really valid.

Basically addressed in the previous paragraph. I know it was early in D1 but (and I know someone is going to call me out for WIFOM on this) do you really think I would try to lead a lynch on Sam (if I was mafia) that incredibly early? It'd be an incredibly stupid move.

The announcer thing was because you seemed way too relaxed about the announcer dying. The announcer isn't important, no, but comments like that come across as coaxing them to come out saying their death doesn't really matter. It wouldn't matter to an experienced player but someone new like, oh, Lady Salamence (who ended up ignoring everyone but US anyway so it didn't end up mattering) could easily interpret something subtle in that post as 'it's okay for me to come out since announcer's role doesn't matter'. Better the announcer than any other PR but I didn't like how your post read to me at least.

I didn't want the announcer to come out, I believe I addressed that in a later post, but if I didn't, that was just a simple mistake that I overlooked. This should be a very minor point anyways in my opinion, people thought Sam was mafia because of the announcer thing, and look how that turned out.

You have posted some useful things and points I agree with (#103, #154, #172, #352, #388 are some good examples), but in general most everything else you posted was either null (mostly) or scum read for me, with a few pro-town posts I liked such as, and I don't like such a null-scum lean since it makes me feel like you are trying to hide. Your willingness to respond to me is helpful though. I admit am especially interested in drawing you out of your shell because of your involvement in the Cereza lynch and would like to see you address it as best as possible. I'd be more interested in what you've learned from Cereza's flip than a defence of it though, because you were very assured of Cereza's alliance and thus I assume her flip means you have to reevaluate your opinions, and no doubt some of these would be interesting :O

I don't really understand what this paragraph is trying to say, are you saying that I had though Cereza was scum prior to her lynch? If so, that is 100% blatantly false. The only reason I voted for her, as stated, was because I really didn't want another tie. I do think there is something to be learned from Cereza/Sam's flip, and I think a lot of that is seeing who Sam voted/called out more strongly, and who voted on the Cereza lynch.

Thank you for answering my post.

No problem, I want to help the village win, and myself looking like scum doesn't help us do that. I am aware I probably should contribute more, but so should like 80%ish of the game. Not that that should be an excuse though. Anyways yeah, if you want to respond to this go ahead.
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I'm not sure what's up with the zorbees pressure, he seems to be just as village as everyone else. I guess it's mainly pressure.

I think since we lost valuable information thanks to the Troll No Lynch pressure votes are important. I still find billymills' actions the previous couple days pretty scummy (reaction lynch on me for an obvious pressure lynch, though it was called back eventually. His ability seems pretty village, so I guess my previous suspicions might be wrong.

jumpluff's post seems a bit odd, as zorbees seems to be contributing a lot to the chat. I'm not really sure why she was so quick to vote for him, but zorbees has been contributing very well and he seems to be village.

I don't really have a prime suspect atm since billymills seems town and Staraptor Call's replacements have been active. As far as I'm concerned the best hunch I have to go on is the Quagsires lynch from Day 1...
 
DetroitLolcat said:
I'm not sure what's up with the zorbees pressure, he seems to be just as village as everyone else. I guess it's mainly pressure.

jumpluff's post seems a bit odd, as zorbees seems to be contributing a lot to the chat. I'm not really sure why she was so quick to vote for him, but zorbees has been contributing very well and he seems to be village.
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I explained it what the pressure was about. I don't remember actually voting zorbees, and I can't find the post where I supposedly did; I think my vote is still on Rediamond, but I will unvote and re-vote either way because the only intention behind a zorbees vote would be to encourage him to talk, and Rediamond still hasn't come back. I don't think this will mess up Spiffy's votecount?

@@Unvote@@
@@Lynch Rediamond@@

Most of his contributions were D1 and it is now D3. The majority of his posts have been short and not offered much since then. That is why I went easier on Paperblade (who I believe I called out earlier), who continued to contribute throughout D2, though I agree with zorbees that my accusation can be levied at pblade too (and it has, actually!).

@zorbees:

My main problem was that the contributions you have made were D1 and they have since petered out. I will try to think of some more questions if you like, but here is one: 'If Paperblade is not scum, whom would you think is most likely to be scum out of askaninjask/Yeti/billymills/B_T/myself/yourself?'. And here is another: 'Whom would you support for a lynch if it were not for Quagsires?'. As I mentioned above, I did call out Paperblade for it (most recently in #795 where I prodded him to talk), but you're quite right to bring it up.

Additionally, by 'fifth most prolific contributor' I just meant you have the fifth most posts in the thread. Sorry for the ambiguity. Also I didn't mean to imply that you were pushing the lynch like Yeti was, I just meant that after the wagon thing (which obviously concerned me a lot) I felt it was high time to flush you out, which is why I went after you.

Congratulations on your 1.002k dude!!

PS: MrcRanger97, I know this thread is really long and you are probs still catching up, but any thoughts so far?
 
jumpluff said:
@zorbees:

My main problem was that the contributions you have made were D1 and they have since petered out. I will try to think of some more questions if you like, but here is one: 'If Paperblade is not scum, whom would you think is most likely to be scum out of askaninjask/Yeti/billymills/B_T/myself/yourself?'. And here is another: 'Whom would you support for a lynch if it were not for Quagsires?'. As I mentioned above, I did call out Paperblade for it (most recently in #795 where I prodded him to talk), but you're quite right to bring it up.
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If Paperblade is not scum, I'd probably lean towards B_T. billymills is clean assuming he is telling the truth (which I think he is), and I don't think Quags would try to "clean" his teammate (aska) after he saw the bodyguard die. I guess this is WIFOM though, but aska has seemed like a good contributor for the most part. Yeti and yourself have seen a lot of increased activity recently (yours because of subbing in obviously), and I don't think either of you would put yourself at the center of attention like you did if you were mafia. B_T is basically process of elimination. I really don't find him too scummy, but he's probably the scummiest of the bunch from my point of view. If not B_T or Paperblade, I'd probably go aska just because my WIFOM might be wrong.

If not for Quagsires, I'd probably support a lynch on someone like Brammi, Crux, or MK Ultra, who are experienced users and yet aren't really contributing much. I do think Rediamond and the like need to contribute more, but in regards to Rediamond in particular, I feel he is just noobtown, similar to leethoof.

1.005k shoutout to my mom
 
this game sure took a turn for the dead

gonna pull a yeti and ask everyone to post their opinions on likely lynches right now

quagsires has the likelihood thing going against him so i wouldn't mind his lynch, crux needs to be subbed out / lynched, yeti read is pending, did anything else happen today??? seriously
 
Blue_Tornado said:
this game sure took a turn for the dead

gonna pull a yeti and ask everyone to post their opinions on likely lynches right now

quagsires has the likelihood thing going against him so i wouldn't mind his lynch, crux needs to be subbed out / lynched, yeti read is pending, did anything else happen today??? seriously
Click to expand...

I am perfectly fine with a Quagsires lynch, though I complained earlier because it killed all discussion.

Agreeing with you on Crux, goes for MK Ultra as well. There are a million inactives, my first post was about them, I'm hesitant to say 'lynch one of the indistinct randoms' (Crux and MK Ultra are at least somewhat notable) because you can easily 'randomly' pick one as scum (since not all of them are scum and I highly doubt all of them are town) that isn't allied with you (hence my attempt to distinguish them in my post), but I think they are worse than Crux and MK Ultra in a way... The moment we descend to lynching inactives though we're pretty desperate and just gambling so I really don't want to go down that path :/

Would also be willing to vote j-squared, but I'm still not sure what I think about him (he and Ditto are like my #1 scummiest non-Quagsires person but it's the kind of scum read where everything could just be the result of pressured townie and inexperienced sub... pretty sure it's scum motivation though) and Dummy007 (that's the one that subbed in for TalkingLion, right?). I already outlined my problems with those users so I won't reiterate it unless someone needs it.

My vote is still on him and he hasn't come back, but I actually wouldn't be really okay with a lynch on Rediamond based on my second paragraph, despite him being extremely unhelpful at the moment.

Also, yeah, stuff happened. People claiming...
 
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