Rate a beginner's rain team?

NeLLY979

Hey hey hey Smogon ^^
I've recently gotten into wi-fi battling, rather than just watching videos of it, and my first team I have built is this rain team. I know it's probably far from perfect, hence my asking for some ratings. Just wondering what would be the best ways in which this could be improved in your guys' opinions. Cheers :)​

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POLITOED:
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Ability: Drizzle
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Bold
Moves: Protect/Perish Song/Scald/Ice Beam
EVs: 252 HP, 154 Def, 100 SpD
Politoed obviously as my rain inducer. Scald's burn chance is handy, Ice Beam helps with coverage. Protect for scouting and stalling, as well as reducing Perish Song's countdown in case I need to stall out an undesirable opponent.​

CLOYSTER:
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Ability: Skill Link
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Impish
Moves: Icicle Spear/Ice Shard/Toxic Spikes/Rapid Spin
EVs: 252 HP, 148 Atk, 108 Def
Cloyster acts as my spinner and sets up Toxic Spikes. Icicle Spear with Skill Link is pretty much required, helping to deal wth Grass types, and Ice Shard's priority helps finish off weakened Grass types. I choose Toxic Spikes over Spikes as it doesn't rely on switch-ins and I feel that Cloyster wouldn't often get the chance to lay down Spikes in addition to Toxic Spikes.​

BISHARP:
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Ability: Inner Focus
Item: Life Orb
Nature: Adamant
Moves: Night Slash/Pursuit/Stone Edge/Brick Break
EVs: 252 Spe, 252 Atk, 4 HP
Bisharp. I don't think I've seen this on a rain team before. It seems to work pretty well, with its fire weakness being reduced. Pursuit, from my experience, does wonders in destroying Jellicent, and Night Slash is handy as a general STAB move. Brick Break for screens, and Stone Edge with its high power rounds off the moveset.​

VAPOREON:
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Ability: Hydration
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Bold
Moves: Wish/Ice Beam/Roar/Rest
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpD
Vaporeon acts as my main tank, with Rest going hand in hand with Hydration for instant full heals, as well as losing any other status. Ice Beam over Scald in case Grass types are brought out. Wish and Roar are there for their standard roles, healing teammates and phazing. Also, when toxic spikes are down, Vaporeon aids in racking up residual damage by taking hits.​

ELECTIVIRE:
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Ability: Motor Drive
Item: : Life Orb
Nature: Modest
Moves: Thunder/Thunder Wave/Flamethrower/Psychic
EVs: 160 HP, 252 Atk, 96 Spe
Electivire, probably the pokemon I'm least sure of. Thunder with the accuracy boost is nice and Psychic helps against Fighting pokemon which might mess up Bisharp. Flamethrower is there for use against the grass types my team is not keen on, but with the rain it's not as strong as I'd have liked. T-Wave for paralysis is always nice.​

TOXICROAK:
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Ability: Dry Skin
Item: Black Sludge
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
Moves: Drain Punch/Substitute/X-Scissor/Earthquake
Toxicroak acts as a physical sweeper, probably somewhat unsurprisingly. Recovery from Black Sludge and Rain Dish complements the subs, Drain Punch for good STAB and recovery. Earthquake helps deal with Thunders and along with Drain Punch, steels due to Fire being weakened as a result of the rain. X-Scissor is there to somewhat alleviate the threat of Psychics, as this guy cannot take psychic hits.​

What I think I need to improve on:
Overall, my main fears are Thunder users taking advantage of the rain, as well as Grass types in general.
I personally think I need to change Electivire, it just seems like he's not got much use overall. If possible, something else with Thunder would be nice.
I also think Cloyster could be changed for a different entry hazard set up, such as Swampert (also reducing my large Thunder weakness, but Grass types will destroy this guy I think)​
 
first of all, im not gonna give you any advice on team members, as i have no experience with rain teams. Ill just comment on sets.

Cloyster could run his typical sweeper set: Jolly, 4-252-0-0-0-252, with Shell Smash instead of Ice Shard and Rock Blast instead of Toxic Spikes. Get some other hazard pokemon.

Bisharp needs Sucker Punch. (IF you wanna keep him)

Electivire running a special set despite his attack being A LOT higher is just wrong.

Toxicroak could get some set up move, something like bulk up.

Also, your sets use 512 EVs while they can only use 508.

Also, Tornadus must be the greatest powerhouse a rain team can have. Though i consider him too broken and i would never use him, hes a beast.
 
JSteele said:
first of all, im not gonna give you any advice on team members, as i have no experience with rain teams. Ill just comment on sets.

Cloyster could run his typical sweeper set: Jolly, 4-252-0-0-0-252, with Shell Smash instead of Ice Shard and Rock Blast instead of Toxic Spikes. Get some other hazard pokemon.

Bisharp needs Sucker Punch.

Electivire running a special set despite his attack being A LOT higher is just wrong.

Toxicroak could get some set up move, something like bulk up.

Also, your sets use 512 EVs while they can only use 508.
Click to expand...

I've gotten used to writing it out in 512s instead of 508s so I probably addded 4 to some stuff, you can tell I haven't had much experience Dx
I definitely need to change my Electrivire, just bringing him in mainly to get a Special Attacker and Thunder usage.
I'll give Bulk Up a whirl on Toxicroak later on, so thanks for that ^^
And as for Cloyster, I'll look into either using that set or switching him for another pokemon.
I guess the Sucker Punch seems to make sense, it's just with my lack of experience I'm still learning prediction so Night Slash works better for me right now.

Thank you for posting, I'll try tweaking my Toxicroak and I'll test Sucker Punch, cheers :)
 
Hey! I think you're off to a good start.

First, may I point some things out on your sets:
I think you really need to put Sucker Punch on Bisharp. The STAB he gets, combined with his ridiculous attack makes it comparable to a Scizor's Bullet Punch. Also, priority is a great thing to have, especially something so strong. It could mean the difference between finishing off that lucky Dragonite or taking out the enemy Landorus.

Also, since you're running substitute on Toxicroak anyways, why not run Focus Punch over Drain Punch? Also, you might want to try Sucker Punch on Toxicroak as well, for the fight+dark combo that hits practically everything. Also, instead of X-Scissor, I'd suggest Poison Jab or even swords dance (you can then run drain punch). The reason I say this is because X-Scissor seems to be really situational. However, if psychic types are really a problem, then keep it.

Also, you might want to try replacing Electivire with Jolteon. Jolteon still has the electric immunity that you want, and has greater speed and power, and can abuse thunder much better than Electivire can.

Also, even with Jolteon or Electivire, I see a huge weakness to Volt-Turn cores, especially those with Sandstorm. They can shut down your rain and hit you hard with SE or Choiced moves. Because of this, I'm going to suggest Nattorei over Cloyster. You might be losing the T-Spikes, but you get the incredibly useful stealth rock (that can help wear down volt-run), as well as spikes if you prefer. The rain also helps Nattorei with his huge fire weakness.

Another option is running a little custom defensive Shaymin spread I have. It can hand Volt-Turn core pretty well, and I might even recommend HP Fire on it, even with the rain, as it hurt Scizor.

Shaymin@Leftovers
EVs: 200 HP / 232 SpA / 76 Spe
Modest Nature
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power/Air Slash
- Hidden Power Fire/Air Slash/Earth Power
- Rest

Also, because I did recommend taking out Cloyster, and thus, taking out T-Spikes, you can also try a defensive Tentacruel set with T-Spikes. It can set up T-Spikes better than Cloyster in most situations, and has access to rapid spin.

Tentacruel@Leftovers
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 20 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Protect/Ice Beam/Sludge Bomb/Toxic

This Tentacruel also helps with your SD Lucario weakness. After an SD and some extra damage, he could ruin your team.

Lastly, I still see a grass/elec weakness. My best recommendation would be to look into a Dragon type. Perhaps Dragonite? You can run a mix-set with Hurricane to abuse the rain, and also use him to resist grass types (Although neutral to electric). Not sure what to put him over, however.

Another idea would be Hydreigon, however, his weakened fire blast might make him less favorable.
 
you could also give ferrothorn a chance, hes terribly broken but most certainly an amazing mixed wall, especially since his fire weakness is nerfed in the rain. He can use Stealth Rock and/or Spikes, as well as Leech Seed and 2 powerful attacks in Power Whip and Gyro Ball.

Also, consider Rotom-W if you choose to remove Electivire. He can abuse Thunder, as well as a powerful STAB Hydro Pump, and its also really bulky and has 1 weakness, the Grass type, which can be dealt with if you add a Hurricane abuser.
 
@JSteele: I did recommend Ferrothorn, although Rotom-W, I totally missed! Good suggestion.

Might I also suggest Rotom-C. Yes. His fire weak is nerfed in the rain, and his resistances to water and electric work great with your team and its huge weaknesses to them. He can also abuse Thunder. Also, perhaps running HP Fire on him would be a good idea. That way, he can act as an anti-volt-turn just like the Shaymin I recommended (However, he is weak to U-Turn, so don't be too hasty). Shaymin is often seen with HP Fire, so your opponent may act cautiously, but with Rotom-C, you'll be unpredictable and unorthodox, and I would never expect HP Fire on him, especially when on a rain team.

Good luck.
 
Yeah, you ninja'd me there. When i started writing you hadnt posted yet, and when i finished i was too bored to edit :P
 
Thanks to both of you for your suggestions, I'll try them all out tonight to see what works best for me. Cheers ^_^
 
Hey, there are a few key changes that I would make that I believe would tremendously help your team. First off, change Electivire to a SpecsJolteon. It is completely superior in everything other than how E-vire can be a mixed wallbreaker, but you're using him specially so Jolteon would be better.
Jolteon@Choice Specs
Volt Absorb
Timid
-Thunder
-Volt Switch
-Shadow Ball
-HP Grass/HP Ice
4 hp/252 spA/252 spe

Another change I'd make that is rather minor would be just changing Toxicroak's set a little bit. Make it a sub bulk up set.
Toxicroak@leftovers
Dry Skin
Adamant
-Substitute
-Bulk Up
-Drain Punch
-Sucker Punch
244 hp/252 att/12 def

Lastly, I'd recommend replacing Cloyster with a Donphan. You don't really need toxic spikes on the team, and Stealth Rock is far superior. Donphan also is a huge help due to another electric immunity on the team.
Donphan@leftovers
Adamant
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-Ice Shard
-Rapid Spin
252 hp/252 att/4 def

Hope this helped and good luck!
 
After a afternoon of testing I've settled with Politoed/Toxicroak/Bisharp/Donphan/Rotom -C/Dragonite for now. Donphan works far better than Cloyster used to, and is a great switch in for Thunders, Dragonite's Hurricane and Thunder work really well, especially with Roost, and Rotom fits in really nicely.

I'm gonna do more tests with Rotom-W and I'll try out Jolteon tonight. Thanks for all the help guys, my W/L is looking much better now xD
 
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