• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

The Effect of BW2 on Neverused

Django

Django

is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
RoAPL Champion
normal_518Musharna_Dream.png

​

Over the past few days a huge amount of information regarding the new Pokemon games has been released, meaning us competitive players can finally get a glimpse of what the new metagame will actually look like. These changes will be available on a simulator ASAP, but for now lets discuss the effects of stuff we know has been released and will be available! Discussion on potential releases should still remain in this thread.

So this is what we currently know:

Just a few quick notes: be sure to stick to discussion on confirmed content, stuff that will actually be affecting the metagame very soon. As more information comes out, feel free to post it here (as long as it is relevant to NU, of course). On that note, it should be obvious that all discussion here should relate to the NU metagame. With that out of the way, have at it.
 
So then, with the new tutors:

RBG said:
The first move tutor is in Driftveil City. He can teach Covet and Bug Bite, which cost 2 Red Shards; Drill Run, Bounce, Signal Beam, and Iron Head for 4; Super Fang and Uproar for 6; and Seed Bomb, Dual Chop, Low Kick, Thunderpunch, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, and Gunk Shot for an unknown amount.

The second move tutor teaches the moves Last Resort and Iron Defense for 2 Blue Shards, Magnet Rise and Magic Coat for 4, Block, Hyper Voice, Electroweb, and Icy Wind for 6. Other moves he teaches include Iron Tail, Aqua Tail, Earth Power, Zen Headbutt, Foul Play, Superpower, Gravity, Dragon Pulse, and Dark Pulse

The third move tutors teaches Bind and Snore for 2 Yellow Shards, Heal Block and Knock Off for 4, Synthesis and Roost for 6, Sky Attack and Role Play for 8. Move Tutor also has Heat Wave, Giga Drain, Drain Punch, Pain Split, and Tailwind for an unknown amount of shards.

The fourth (and last?) move tutor teaches Worry Seed, Gastro Acid, Helping Hand, After You, Magic Room, Wonder Room, Spite, Recycle, Trick, Stealth Rock, Outrage, Endeavor, Sleep Talk, Skill Swap, Snatch.
Click to expand...

Anybody see anything interesting?
 
Well we don't know which Pokemon are getting which moves yet but Roost Braviary will probably be a beast thanks to its nice bulk.
 
SR everywhereeeee

Also looks like a lot of pokes will hopefully get some coverage moves in Dragon Pulse, Dark Pulse, Zen Headbutt, Aqua Tail, Earthpower, elemental punches etc. Which should be good.
 
Roost Bulk Up Braviary will be incredible. It has wanted Roost so badly for so long, and now it can get around Rock- and Steel-types even easier. BU / Roost / Brave Bird / Superpower could work, as could a SubRoost set of some sort. Really looking forward to that.

Drill Run tutor is pretty cool, maybe something like Swellow will get it, or maybe Dodrio will get Low Kick? These probably won't happen but man would they be awesome. Superpower tutor is also incredible news, not sure what it may end up on though. Stealth Rock also means stuff like Thick Fat Piloswine and Sap Sipper Miltank won't be restricted in their movesets any more, which is really nice.

Tangela can finally use Worry Seed and Regnerator

!

Sleep Talk will actually be available on 5th Gen Pokemon now, but having said that the new Sleep mechanics really mean it is not worthwhile to run it. Maybe stuff like Throh will see some more usage, but 5th Gen has honestly screwed Sleep Talk enough for me to just not use it as a rule of thumb.
 
Finally I get to use Stealth Rock Carracosta!

Dodrio will probably get Low Kick. It used to get Low Kick but for some reason Dodrio never got it back. Hopefully Dodrio does get Low Kick so CB Dodrio can finally see some use and isn't pretty much outclassed by Braviary.

Worry Seed Tangela legal with Regenerator will be interesting, but I'm more interested in Synthesis. Tangela will be even more of a pain to beat when it doesn't have to switch out to recover. At least Braviary will be able to abuse the presence of Tangela even more if it has Roost.

Speaking of Braviary, a set of Roost / Substitute OR Bulk Up / Brave Bird / Superpower will be very effective if Braviary gets Roost from the move tutors. I'm not too sure about what EV's to use on this Braviary, however; any ideas?
 
Well you can't really know common trends of the metagame yet, so it's hard to come up with a specific EV spread. I thought about using enough so Amoonguss can't break your Sub with HP Ice (since Amoonguss will be everywhere at the start), but it turns out you actually need near maximum Special Defense:

0SpAtk Amoonguss (Neutral) Hidden Power (Ice) vs 252HP/248SpDef Braviary (Neutral): 20% - 24% (84 - 100 HP). Guaranteed 5HKO.

which probably isn't worth it.

Seconding Roost Braviary and Low Kick Dodrio, though I think I'd still prefer Braviary for its higher base attack, even though the added speed and Quick Attack on Dodrio are nice I guess.
 
Speaking of Braviary, a set of Roost / Substitute/Bulk Up / Brave Bird / Superpower will be very effective if Braviary gets Roost from the move tutors. I'm not too sure about what EV's to use on this Braviary, however; any ideas?
Click to expand...
Lol DTC thats 5 moves. I'm sensing a bit of 4 moveslot syndrome from braviary now, due to the fact that if it wants to run superpower it needs BU, but to effectively set up BU it needs sub roost, and then it sacrifices STAB and coverage in brave bird.

A bit of a dilemma when picking moves.

I'm not sure about EV's though
 
I wasn't on PO when Gen 5 came out originally so I don't know how this goes, but do we wait until the Japanese or US release date for the client to be updated and the new moves/abilities added on?
 
Vintage Books said:
Lol DTC thats 5 moves. I'm sensing a bit of 4 moveslot syndrome from braviary now, due to the fact that if it wants to run superpower it needs BU, but to effectively set up BU it needs sub roost, and then it sacrifices STAB and coverage in brave bird.

A bit of a dilemma when picking moves.

I'm not sure about EV's though
Click to expand...

Judging by the spaces he meant

-Roost
-Sub/Bulk Up
-Superpower
-Brave Bird
 
Braviary can be the "Honchrow" of NU without STAB priority (D:)

something like:

Braviary @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant (the more useful)
EV: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

- Substitute
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- Superpower
 
You know who I'm ready for? Throh.

Throh @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EV: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful (+SpD, -SpA)
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
- Circle Throw
- Bulk Up

Finally, Throh can get out of Gurdurr's shadow with this set, because Throh can phaze with Circle Throw, something Gurdurr can only dream of doing.

I guess he could also use Mold Breaker (on a different set) when he gets it, but he can't really hit anything special. Breaking through Sturdy is nice though.

EDIT: YESYESYES

Eelektross Super Fang, Signal Beam, Bounce, Thunderpunch, Fire Punch, Magnet Rise(lol), Superpower(CB set maybe?), Aqua Tail, Iron Tail, Bind, Snore, Knock Off, Giga Drain, Drain Punch, Gastro Acid, Sleep Talk
Click to expand...

Giga Drain means we don't need Grass Knot anymore, and we get some recovery! :DD
Drain Punch gives us good coverage and recovery! :DD
NO MORE SPARK ON COIL EELEKTROSS!!! ThunderPunch and Fire Punch have good coverage too. No Ice Punch though. :(
Everything else is probably not that useful (Aqua Tail might be useful)
Also, ResTalk, but everyone got that.

Eelektross @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EV: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful (+SpD, -SpA)
- Coil
- Thunderpunch
- Fire Punch / Aqua Tail / Crunch
- Drain Punch

Best set ever. Alternatively, it could run Rest / Sleep Talk / Thunderpunch / Coil.
And every special set ever is pretty much the same, but with Giga Drain > Grass Knot.
 
Eh RestTalk Throh won't be that great, it gets completely walled by Ghosts, loses to a lot of faster phazers (and Musharna) and Sleep Talk in general just sucks.

Speaking of Musharna, it got Heal Bell. Yet another amazing defensive tool to go with Alomomola and Amoonguss. Speaking of which, Alomomola got both Magic Coat and Knock Off, which gives it a lot more utility and stops it being such complete set up bait as it was before.

A few other things I noticed on the tutor list: Dual Chop and Elemental Punches on Sawk, Superpower / Low Kick and Aqua Tail on Fraxure. There are an incredible amount of new options coming out.
 
First impressions:

  • FREE LOW KICK DODRIO
  • No Stealth Rock on Quagsire
  • Eelektross has a lot more options now
  • Fraxure will be harder to stop with access to Superpower / Low Kick / Aqua Tail
  • Regenerator Amoonguss and Skill Link Cinccino
  • Roost Braviary <3
  • Superpower and aqua jet Bearctic
  • Salac berry Sawk, Pinsir, and simitrio?
  • Sawk now has Ice Punch which will make Vileplume / Amoonguss checks instead of counters. Well, Amoonguss can always Regenerator out...
  • Heal Bell Musharna will be really annoying
  • Stealth Rock Carracosta! Also Seismitoad and Stunfisk get it.
  • Air Slash will be slightly better than HP Flying on RD Mantine.
  • Throh finally gets Sleep Talk.
  • Alomomola has a few extra options such as Magic Coat, Knock Off, and Sleep Talk that might be good.
  • Superpower Samurott? Could that possible be viable on SD or maybe even a CB set...

Also: IT'S ON PS! NOW YAYAYA http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/lobby
 
DTC said:
First impressions:

  • FREE LOW KICK DODRIO
  • No Stealth Rock on Quagsire
  • Eelektross has a lot more options now
  • Fraxure will be harder to stop with access to Superpower / Low Kick / Aqua Tail
  • Regenerator Amoonguss and Skill Link Cinccino
  • Roost Braviary <3
  • Superpower and aqua jet Bearctic
  • Salac berry Sawk, Pinsir, and simitrio?
  • Sawk now has Ice Punch which will make Vileplume / Amoonguss checks instead of counters. Well, Amoonguss can always Regenerator out...
  • Finally, Audino gets Heal Bell. Heal Bell Musharna will be very interesting as well.
  • Stealth Rock Carracosta! Also Seismitoad and Stunfisk get it.
  • Air Slash will be slightly better than HP Flying on RD Mantine.
  • Throh finally gets Sleep Talk.
  • Alomomola has a few extra options such as Magic Coat, Knock Off, and Sleep Talk that might be good.
  • Superpower Samurott? Could that possible be viable on SD or maybe even a CB set...

Also: IT'S ON PS! NOW YAYAYA http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/lobby
Click to expand...

Oh wow, really happy about this now. Didn't realize what pokes got what. Is that all or are there more?
 
Oh my Roost Braviary is going to be so much fun. Now we have so many things to test again, and just as I was running out of ideas too :).

I am really looking forward to all the experiments and sets that I'll see the next few days!
 
Theorymonning here, but i see some potential in shell smash shuckle, but not in the common sense. with the ability contrary which is bound to be released soon, shuckle will be able to boost both his defenses while lowering his already horrid offenses and speed by 2 stages. And in lowering these, he can cripple opponants with the move power split, giving them in a sense shuckles horrid offenses, wheras shuckle doesnt care about the drops and be free to knock off/rest and toxic stall things to oblivion. it would have problems with toxic and things immune to poison, but it could be pretty good in theory.
 
Articuno gains Hurricane via level-up, finally giving it a useful secondary STAB that isn't Hidden Power.
 
On the topic of Eelektross, screw Thunderpunch (weak 75 BP move). What we should be looking at is the fact that the perfect specs set - Tbolt/Flamethrower/Giga Drain/Hidden Power is now possible. In general, Giga Drain is a nice little move on eel, especially considering it easily OHKOes golem after damage.

Fraxure might be banworthy. It has an unresisted STAB combo, extremely high attack, fantastic neutral coverage in its STAB to begin with... what's not to like? If that's not your style, it gets sleep talk, meaning that Rest/Sleep Talk/DD/Outrage is good to go. It's not as bulky as either Dragonair or Shelgon, but to say that it's not strong is far from the truth.

In general, Sleep Talk is on every mon now. Anybody see any good uses for it?
 
breh said:
Fraxure might be banworthy. It has an unresisted STAB combo, extremely high attack, fantastic neutral coverage in its STAB to begin with... what's not to like? If that's not your style, it gets sleep talk, meaning that Rest/Sleep Talk/DD/Outrage is good to go. It's not as bulky as either Dragonair or Shelgon, but to say that it's not strong is far from the truth.
Click to expand...

?

Its Mono-Dragon
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top