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np: NU Stage 5 - Won't Get Fooled Again
- Thread starter jake
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As said earlier, Ursaring is either much slower or not quite as powerful, while zangoose can outspeed whole lot of things including the very common base 85 speed and still hit like a demon. But most of all zangoose is much harder to revenge kill with his powerful and reliable (not sucker punch) priority move. In fact zanz is simltaneously the fastest and a one of the most powerful wallbreakers in the tier and a late game sweeper with perfect coverage. As if it wasn't enough, the only priority move to hit super effective is only used by gurdurr and the non existant monferno and physical magmar and he's faster than absol and skunk to hit the quick attack without getting sucker pucnh if they've been weakend. Toxic sure brings it down but it's often better than being choiced. It might not be banned but I say it's going up next tier shift.
Okay, you're being overly dramatic.
Zangoose has really bad 4mss.
It simply doesn't have enough room for Quick Attack/CC/Night Slash/SD/Protect/Facade. Its a strong poke but it wont take any hits. If it doesn't have protect its going to take a hit while waiting for toxic to activate which will shorten its life span even more. Also, its probably coming in on SR which takes away a chunk. After taking damage+SR+Toxic its left at low hp where it can easily be revenged.
Zangoose has really bad 4mss.
It simply doesn't have enough room for Quick Attack/CC/Night Slash/SD/Protect/Facade. Its a strong poke but it wont take any hits. If it doesn't have protect its going to take a hit while waiting for toxic to activate which will shorten its life span even more. Also, its probably coming in on SR which takes away a chunk. After taking damage+SR+Toxic its left at low hp where it can easily be revenged.
Protect surely is useful but zanz has enough speed to revenge kill plenty of stuff (mainly other very popular wallbreakers since he's the fastest) plus he can come in on toxic, ghost attacks or SR itself, not even taking the damage and zanz gets the kill on about every SR user without intact sturdy (If swellow can do without protect this guy surely can). SD is really unecessary, once you're in on something he can OHKO that can't touch it, your opponent is sure to lose a poke. He might send in a counter after but you simply switch and end up taking barely nothing from toxic. If it's late game, there's a good chance he gets the unboosted sweep. Revenge killer should be added to wallbreaker and late game sweeper. Although he's not the best at any of these roles, he's probably the best to do all 3 at the same time.
It 2HKOes Alomomola with Facade. It doesn't need Swords Dance with that kind of sheer power. Protect is similarly unnecessary.
Zangoose works fine with Facade/QA/CC/Night Slash. I don't know if it's going to go down in usage heavily, but it sure as hell isn't bad. It's one of the strongest mons in the tier and I don't think there's a single thing it doesn't 2HKO.
I agree with this, 4 attacks is Zangoose's best set by far. It is an extremely powerful late game sweeper due to its ability to smash through walls that have been damaged a bit and pick off faster Pokemon. Zangoose doesn't really need protect if you play smart it. Just send it in to pick off a weakened Pokemon or on a predicted switch. It's usually easy to predict when the opponent is going to set up Stealth Rocks or use Toxic. Slow Baton Passes, Volt Switches and U-turns also help get Zangoose in safely.
I'd run double subpunch, but Ciccino is annoying and trollfaces all over it.
Golurk? Bullet Seed
Kanga? Tail Slap.
You know what would have helped? Metang. Metang would have actually been useful with this Ciccino meta.
How much damage does Bullet Seed do to Physically defensive Regirock?
Golurk? Bullet Seed
Kanga? Tail Slap.
You know what would have helped? Metang. Metang would have actually been useful with this Ciccino meta.
How much damage does Bullet Seed do to Physically defensive Regirock?
>Metang
>Good anywhere
Anyway, Bullet Seed hitting 5 times hits Regirock for 42.86%-50.55% (a 3HKO with Leftovers) assuming a Jolly Nature and a Life Orb on its Standard set or specially defensive sets. However, the physically defensive set takes 37.36%-43.96%. Any Regirock set also can 2HKO with Stone Edge or Drain Punch and/or can cripple it with Thunder Wave.
Lairon also takes almost no damage from it (aside from lolWake-Up Slap, which only 3HKOs, and Bullet Seed rarely can even 5HKO it, assuming max defense) and still 2HKOs it really easily with Head Smash (sometimes a OHKO after Stealth Rock, always a OHKO with that and Life Orb damage), so you don't even need Metang.
I know I am kind of late on this but... GOLURK
Even though we lost Cryogonal (which was a huge blow to both stall and offense), getting Golurk more than makes up for it. It is such a good option for offensive teams requiring and answer to Fighting-types, as well as being able to single handedly destroy the opposing team with a Choice Band. Coupled with Spikes support there is ~nothing that can switch in, especially now it gets Ice Punch and Drain Punch. Not to mention it can also use Rock Polish to be really dangerous late game. SubPunch would be a lot better but Cinccino is really annoying.
Speaking of Cinccino, that is another amazing Pokemon at the moment. It really is dominating NU, and rightly so. Just like Golurk, nearly nothing can switch in (especially with Spikes up). Lairon, Bastiodon, and Probopass do a decent job, but all three can just be hit by U-Turn and Cinccino can just run away to say... GOLURK. The two make a really potent offensive core, and have cool immunities to some of the others weaknesses.
Finally, something I haven't seen getting much love is Moxie Pinsir. I've been using it and while it is not as amazing as I thought it would be, it is still really solid. If given the right opportunity it can destroy teams late game. Anyone else had experience with Moxie Pinsir and what it can do?
PS: Thank god Magmortar is gone. I thought it had a really negative impact on the metagame, basically making Stealth Rock essential to get up Turn 1, which caused the excessive Golem usage and then the excessive countering of Golem. Stealth Rocks are still important due to things like Braviary, Swellow, and Charizard, but none have the impact that Magmortar did. Also, I expect Charizard to rise out of Magmortars shadow.
Even though we lost Cryogonal (which was a huge blow to both stall and offense), getting Golurk more than makes up for it. It is such a good option for offensive teams requiring and answer to Fighting-types, as well as being able to single handedly destroy the opposing team with a Choice Band. Coupled with Spikes support there is ~nothing that can switch in, especially now it gets Ice Punch and Drain Punch. Not to mention it can also use Rock Polish to be really dangerous late game. SubPunch would be a lot better but Cinccino is really annoying.
Speaking of Cinccino, that is another amazing Pokemon at the moment. It really is dominating NU, and rightly so. Just like Golurk, nearly nothing can switch in (especially with Spikes up). Lairon, Bastiodon, and Probopass do a decent job, but all three can just be hit by U-Turn and Cinccino can just run away to say... GOLURK. The two make a really potent offensive core, and have cool immunities to some of the others weaknesses.
Finally, something I haven't seen getting much love is Moxie Pinsir. I've been using it and while it is not as amazing as I thought it would be, it is still really solid. If given the right opportunity it can destroy teams late game. Anyone else had experience with Moxie Pinsir and what it can do?
PS: Thank god Magmortar is gone. I thought it had a really negative impact on the metagame, basically making Stealth Rock essential to get up Turn 1, which caused the excessive Golem usage and then the excessive countering of Golem. Stealth Rocks are still important due to things like Braviary, Swellow, and Charizard, but none have the impact that Magmortar did. Also, I expect Charizard to rise out of Magmortars shadow.
Has anyone tried this in NU? It seems very potent as it has awesome power after one boost, is super fast, and has decent special bulk after a boost. Only downside is that Skuntank is everywhere and makes this set his bitch, that's why eliminating him before is necessary (Trapinch anyone).Husky said:CUZ I'M BATMAN!
Swoobat @ Life Orb
Ability: Simple
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave / Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Ground
This. thing. blows!
On my way back to pokes I recently started playing on PS again to get used to all that new stuff, BW2 brings to us. But the second I saw DW Swoobat being released I knew I'm going to use him. Getting +2 SpA / +2 SpD within one turn, combined with its really nice Base Speed makes it a cool sweeper against any team that's not prepared for it.
After a single Calm Mind, Swoobat hits quite usable 506 SpA and very needed 292 SpD, while sitting on a comfortable 359 Speed. After a single Calm Mind you also have access to a solid Base 100 Stored Power. Air Slash is a great choice thanks to STAB and works well in tandem with Stored Power. On the last slot, for additional coverage, Heat Wave is what I prefer as it hits any Steel Type not named Heatran really hard. Thus if one really fear facing him, feel free to use any Hidden Power to take care of.
However, its downside is its obviously underwhelming defensive capabilities. 67/55/55 is nothing you can bet on. The only way to play this thing safe is to bring it into something, that won't hurt you, set up and HOPE you won't get revenge killed.
The problem is it has ballsack defenses so even a special SE hit still hurts a ton even at +2 and anything physical with a scarf can come in as a revenge killer or a on a CM/roost and destroy you.
Also piloswines ice shard does like 75%
I tried moxie pinsir and had quite a lot of fun, It's unfortunate he can't use close combat and quick attack simultaneously while using moxie though. I still dealed with non mold breaker EQ telling myself CC's defence drops wouldn't be good in the long run anyway (and I really wanted quick attack because I don't think scarf will work and it picks off weakened stuff for a free attack boost). Still far from the mvp of the team, but his bug typing was too useful to my team to use it as a late game sweeper, I'll have to try him with different teamates. Also still loving his decent defence and resistance to ground and fighting that make him a great offensive pivot.
And about the above swoobat, Sub seems vital with all the sucker punchers running around.
Yeah, I used Scarf Moxie Pinsir for a bit and I found it to be either a lifesaver or just really underwhelming. Its power is far from great without a Moxie boost, especially against defensive teams, and it struggles to make any impact at all with Amoonguss around. While it can be a fantastic late-game sweeper against offensive teams, it really doesn't do much in most battles except for getting one kill and then getting forced out, making Moxie useless.
Definitely underwhelmed by it so far.
Definitely underwhelmed by it so far.
It's really not the speed but more the terrible defense.
Swoobat does have its finer moments (setting up on defensive missy from 100% and sweeping) but a lot of the time it's fast death fodder at best. Its bulk is absolutely awful - even the stupidest shit will always break its subs at +2.
So with all the hype around Golurk and all the offensive threats I decided to try something that people have seemingly forgot about. A Regenerator Core. Audino / Alomomola / Amoonguss work amazingly well together(I don't think there are any weaknesses that are unresisted by the other two). Between the three of them you have heal bell / spore / wish. Just enough offensive prowess to stop yourself from being set up on. And the ability to defeat just about anything in the tier. My balanced team has actually done ok so far, combining the aforementioned regenerator core with two offensive bazookas like Absol and Golurk.
Speaking of Absol: It's received a huge increase in usage from what I see. And its being used by top players again, is the increase in power over Skuntank that important, important enough to lose the ability to switch in on psychic types? I've always been an Absol user and loved the immense power it brings. So what do you fellow NUers think of the meta at the moment? Which old pokemon are good. Which former kings pokemon have been dethroned?
Speaking of Absol: It's received a huge increase in usage from what I see. And its being used by top players again, is the increase in power over Skuntank that important, important enough to lose the ability to switch in on psychic types? I've always been an Absol user and loved the immense power it brings. So what do you fellow NUers think of the meta at the moment? Which old pokemon are good. Which former kings pokemon have been dethroned?
I would say that
Absol's Sucker Punch vs standard 4/0 Cinccino: 282-333 (96.57 - 114.04%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock, 81.25% without SR
would be the primary reason why Absol is seeing so much usage again. In comparison, an Adamant LO Skuntank only has an 18% chance of accomplishing the KO after SR. Musharna seems to be dropping in usage too (thanks to Cincy threatening to do a shitton to it and Golurk who can 2HKO the -most- bulky sets), which makes the margin of usage that much wider. A lot of people have become more reliant on Choice Scarf users to combat Cinccino, so things like Scarf Braviary and Scarf Emboar have been seeing more usage, which actually makes stall's job significantly easier. I'm still a big fan of Klang, although people seem to keep haxing me out of a sweep. :( Zangoose is probably my favorite Pokemon to use atm though, since it's so easy to just punch huge holes into any team with it.
I'll probably post more elaborate thoughts when it's not 2:40 AM. :(
I still prefer using Skuntank, even with a Dread Plate over Life Orb. Sure, it only deals about 80% to Cinccino, but you can whittle it down to that easily if it has a Life Orb (double switching to Golem, then to Skuntank for instance) And overall, I find the increase in bulk, better defensive typing and ability to absorb Toxic Spikes more useful than a straight up increase in power. Absol getting Superpower is cool, but unless it's running Swords Dance it becomes setup fodder for a lot of things after using it. If it's banded, Aftermath will pick up the slack and secure the OHKO, although I'll hopefully get some use out of Skuntank before that point.
Using an offensive team myself, I find the raw power provided by Absol's Life Orb boosted Sucker Punch immensely useful for frail offensive threats such as the aforementioned Cinccino. While I really like Skuntank during the last month, I believe that Absol usage might skyrocket just because it's such a solid check to it.
One Pokemon that has, in my opinion, lost a lot of its effectiveness is Swords Dance Samurott. While mixed and special sets are still really effective, I find Swords Dance too hard to set up with offensive threats such as Cinccino (and, to a lesser degree, Choice Band Golurk) around. Furthermore, Amoonguss is really common, can take a hit, and either sleep it or just hit it hard. Imposter Ditto also makes those Swords Dance boosts much less valuable than they used to be.
I fully agree with this part, Regenerator cores are great currently. I believe you forgot to take a Flying-type weakness into account though.
One Pokemon that has, in my opinion, lost a lot of its effectiveness is Swords Dance Samurott. While mixed and special sets are still really effective, I find Swords Dance too hard to set up with offensive threats such as Cinccino (and, to a lesser degree, Choice Band Golurk) around. Furthermore, Amoonguss is really common, can take a hit, and either sleep it or just hit it hard. Imposter Ditto also makes those Swords Dance boosts much less valuable than they used to be.
I fully agree with this part, Regenerator cores are great currently. I believe you forgot to take a Flying-type weakness into account though.
Not to mention a Psychic-type weakness. :p
Back when there was DW UU on the PO server I used a higher tier version of that with Slowbro, Tangrowth and Audino. This core works similarly.
Currently using Amoongus as a mixed wall, Alo as physical and Audino as special. You can easily win games by just switching between these three pokes while you keep them afflicted with poison.
Currently using Amoongus as a mixed wall, Alo as physical and Audino as special. You can easily win games by just switching between these three pokes while you keep them afflicted with poison.
Musharna is still good as ever. Yeah, Golurk destroys it, but Cinccino has to be careful of Thunder Wave and pretty much any attacking move from Musharna will badly hurt it. Heal Bell CM Musharna can go right through Regenerator cores and with the lack of Dark-types lately (I've only seen Zweilous because of research group, a few Cacturne and one Absol and Skuntank in the past few days), it can easily wreck through teams. I don't understand why Musharna isn't one of the top 5 Pokemon in the usage stats. It's just such an amazing Pokemon.
I'm honestly not the biggest fan of Skuntank and I usually prefer Absol. Skuntank is just way too weak in this meta, unlike Absol who checks so many faster threats and stuff like Musharna. I hardly use SD anymore because 1) I rarely find a time to set-up and 2) Absol hardly needs it. Superpower is also an amazing move with the coverage it gives you that I really miss when using Skuntank. A lot of offensive threats are still threatened by -1 Absol.
I'm honestly not the biggest fan of Skuntank and I usually prefer Absol. Skuntank is just way too weak in this meta, unlike Absol who checks so many faster threats and stuff like Musharna. I hardly use SD anymore because 1) I rarely find a time to set-up and 2) Absol hardly needs it. Superpower is also an amazing move with the coverage it gives you that I really miss when using Skuntank. A lot of offensive threats are still threatened by -1 Absol.
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