BW2 General Metagame Discussion Thread

[New World Order]

Genesect outclasses scizor as a volturn(er). It has better speed and much better coverage. Scizor is used a lot for volturn. Once that niche is taken away scizor WILL fall in usage. It will remain in ou, no doubt, But it's going to be less common.

Genesect does not outclass Scizor as a Volt-turner. Scizor is able to play a lot of mind games thanks to the combination of priority and U-turn. It also packs significantly more power behind it's U-turns since Geno usually invests in special attack. Scizor's U-turns are meant to make dents in walls/score KOs, Geno's U-turns are only meant to scout.

Will Genesect's presence affect Scizor usage? Absolutely. But Geno's presence is going to affect every Pokemon just because of how good it is. Does Scizor make Forretress useless? No, because they do completely different things. Scizor will take a dive in usage due to type similarities, but Geno in no shape or form outclasses Scizor as a U-turner.

 

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Genesect does not outclass Scizor as a Volt-turner. Scizor is able to play a lot of mind games thanks to the combination of priority and U-turn. It also packs significantly more power behind it's U-turns since Geno usually invests in special attack. Scizor's U-turns are meant to make dents in walls/score KOs, Geno's U-turns are only meant to scout.

Will Genesect's presence affect Scizor usage? Absolutely. But Geno's presence is going to affect every Pokemon just because of how good it is. Does Scizor make Forretress useless? No, because they do completely different things. Scizor will take a dive in usage due to type similarities, but Geno in no shape or form outclasses Scizor as a U-turner.

Not to mention Genosect almost always attacks from the special side because of his absolutely barren physical movepool.

They both compete in some area's yes, but they both have pluses and minuses in other area's that can benefit some teams more then others.

Practically every time a pokemon comes out that is like another one, everyone says 'IT'S ALL OVER" and it's almost never come true.



I do have a question for the dream world people though, what natures does Genosect generally run for its sets?

 

[Shouting]

I agree, Genesect will replace some scizors on the ladder but Scizor will not fall off the earth or anything. The speed and extra coverage is nice, but fishing for a download boost will not always be reliable.

Scizor also has comparable defenses to Genesect, but Genesect's are more balanced. However, I'd imagine Genesect will go with a defense lowering nature because he will most likely be going mixed, so Scizor will probably end up having better bulk because it does have to invest in speed that much compared to Genesect.

 

[superbadd]

In DW you rarely see scizor in volt-turn teams. You see genesect.(at least in my experience) If your argument is that scizor can play mind games, you're seriously underestimating gensect's versatility. It has fire, ice, and electric type moves along with stab u-turn. Also depending on the foe, it's u-turn is a lot of times seen at +1. The reason why genesect outclasses it in volt-turn teams is because it can muscle through more pokemon than scizor can and revenges dragon dance bulky dragonite and bulky gyrados, something scizor can only dream of. Genesct and scizor or quite different but they share the same type and the same niche. Scizor will be used more for priority and genesect will more than likely take its place on volt-trun teams.

Edit: Genesect mostly runs timid. But other dw players and myself run naive so it's u-turn can be more powerful. It really depends on the set though. Modest/timid are used on the rock polish set. Anything with u-turn runs naive/timid.

I run 252 spe 252 spa 4 atk with a naive nature. Works really well.

 

[alkinesthetase]

I'm reaaaally not seeing the part where Genesect "outclasses" Scizor. The only thing they have in common is their strong, flexible bug/steel typing and a powerful STAB U-turn (scizor thanks to its typical CB - but not always - and heavy attack investment. genesect thanks to an occasional download boost). Otherwise, they serve completely different purposes.

comparing the standard cb scizor and scarf genesect (I don't claim that scarf genesect is the standard genesect at all, but they're both choiced mons so this makes them easier to compare. I would, however, claim that cb scizor is the standard scizor =P), scizor has WAY more bulk, and its moves, while they lack Genesect's coverage and power (indeed one of Scizor's biggest weaknesses is its horrible stab coverage), are packed with utility. Priority is the big advantage, but pursuit trapping is also very very useful. Unless you're running an offensive Tyranitar (and many people are running bulky sets that run little to no attack investment... granted many people are also running scarf), scizor is the strongest pursuit user in OU. Its pursuit outpowers that of an uninvested tyranitar easily.

In comparison, genesect is WAY faster (it usually invests in speed, and unlike scizor, scarf is a fairly common item for genesect), has vastly superior super effective coverage (typical for a special attacker) and conversely tends to run less bulk or physical attack investment. Certainly, Genesect's broader coverage and superior speed, plus the opportunity for download trolling/sweeping, makes it a strong competitor to scizor in the choiced-mons-with-uturn/voltswitch department.

But if scizor was only useful for its u-turn, I think we'd have long since moved on. Instead, it's held the dominating position in OU - by a LONG shot - for a very long time. CB is certainly not the only set responsible for that usage, but regardless I don't see how the two can be compared. They do completely different jobs. If I was just looking for a volt-turn core I'd consider them both, and there would probably be plenty of times where I'd choose genesect instead of scizor. but in terms of the roles it can play on a team, Scizor's utility brings a lot to the table, something that Genesect cannot even begin to compete with.

tl;dr I agree with new world order

 

[NoUserName]

I read time ago that Genesect was #1 in DW OU

Genesect is a lot predictable too, its movepool usually consists of the following movs: Thunderbolt, Flamethrower/Fire Blast ,Ice Beam, U-turn, Bug Buzz or Rock Polish.

Predictable but still very good.

 

[android]

I'm reaaaally not seeing the part where Genesect "outclasses" Scizor. The only thing they have in common is their strong, flexible bug/steel typing and a powerful STAB U-turn (scizor thanks to its typical CB - but not always - and heavy attack investment. genesect thanks to an occasional download boost). Otherwise, they serve completely different purposes.

comparing the standard cb scizor and scarf genesect (I don't claim that scarf genesect is the standard genesect at all, but they're both choiced mons so this makes them easier to compare. I would, however, claim that cb scizor is the standard scizor =P), scizor has WAY more bulk, and its moves, while they lack Genesect's coverage and power (indeed one of Scizor's biggest weaknesses is its horrible stab coverage), are packed with utility. Priority is the big advantage, but pursuit trapping is also very very useful. Unless you're running an offensive Tyranitar (and many people are running bulky sets that run little to no attack investment... granted many people are also running scarf), scizor is the strongest pursuit user in OU. Its pursuit outpowers that of an uninvested tyranitar easily.

In comparison, genesect is WAY faster (it usually invests in speed, and unlike scizor, scarf is a fairly common item for genesect), has vastly superior super effective coverage (typical for a special attacker) and conversely tends to run less bulk or physical attack investment. Certainly, Genesect's broader coverage and superior speed, plus the opportunity for download trolling/sweeping, makes it a strong competitor to scizor in the choiced-mons-with-uturn/voltswitch department.

But if scizor was only useful for its u-turn, I think we'd have long since moved on. Instead, it's held the dominating position in OU - by a LONG shot - for a very long time. CB is certainly not the only set responsible for that usage, but regardless I don't see how the two can be compared. They do completely different jobs. If I was just looking for a volt-turn core I'd consider them both, and there would probably be plenty of times where I'd choose genesect instead of scizor. but in terms of the roles it can play on a team, Scizor's utility brings a lot to the table, something that Genesect cannot even begin to compete with.

tl;dr I agree with new world order

Scizor doesn't have way more bulk. Genesect actually has better Special Defense and an additional point of HP with slightly less Defense. Granted Genesect generally invests in speed, but claiming that Scizor has way more bulk is a bit misleading. Also, I believe Tyranitar is the strongest Pursuit-user in OU: iirc 80 bp Pursuit does not receive a boost from Technician, while Tyranitar's successful pursuit does 120 damage due to STAB.

Let's not underestimate Scizor's U-Turn niche. Creating favorable match-ups while causing big damage is one of Scizors biggest draws. Honestly, outside of U-Turning, I see Scizor's utility waning already. While he's still the best check to Terrakion, Bullet Punch doesn't cut it when trying to revenge threats like Keldeo and Therian Thundurus. I may be wrong, but Pursuit-Trapping seems to be one of Scizor's lesser roles, and he certainly isn't better at it than Tyranitar is. Guys like Latios in the Rain will 2HKO Scizor, while Tyranitar totally shuts them down with Sand Stream.

I'd say that apart from revenging things like Salamence (though Mamoswine honestly revenges better too) Volt-Turn and Terrakion usage are really keeping Scizor in his top spot. Scizor will always have a place in high OU, but I doubt he'll remain at the very top.

I read time ago that Genesect was #1 in DW OU

Genesect is a lot predictable too, its movepool usually consists of the following movs: Thunderbolt, Flamethrower/Fire Blast ,Ice Beam, U-turn, Bug Buzz or Rock Polish.

Predictable but still very good.

Genesect doesn't learn Fire Blast unfortunately. He learns Blizzard and Thunder though.

Genesect isn't any more predictable than Scizor. His movepool is actually a bit larger, and he gets much better coverage. The only things that Genesect lacks that Scizor has are STAB priority, recovery and boosting moves, as well as Superpower and Pursuit. In fact I'd say Download makes him a lot less predictable.

 

[Dark Fallen Angel]

Genesect isn't any more predictable than Scizor. His movepool is actually a bit larger, and he gets much better coverage. The only things that Genesect lacks that Scizor has are STAB priority, recovery and boosting moves, as well as Superpower and Pursuit. In fact I'd say Download makes him a lot less predictable.

I would actually say that both are equally predictable. While Genesect has a bigger movepool, most of time it will be using Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt and a Bug-type attack. So, it isn't that hard to know what Genesect will use. As for Scizor, you can really expect him to be using Bullet Punch; only some Choice Scarf Scizor sets don't use Bullet Punch at all. Most Scizor also use Superpower. But you will never know if it's going to use U-Turn and/or Pursuit, wich indicates a Choice/Trapper set, or Swords Dance/Roost, wich indicates a stat-booster set. But once you identify wich moves it is using (other than Bullet Punch) it is easy to know wich set Scizor will use.

 

[alkinesthetase]

It's true that Genesect's defenses are actually better than Scizor's (that's what you get for having the same BST as your previous evolution >_>) but find me a Genesect that actually invests in bulk. Protip: you won't. Nearly 60% of DW Genesect are good old 252 spa/252 spe. Ignoring the 20% other (because it can't really contribute to any percentage), there's a measly 2.1% that are noted for an HP investment, and not one bracket has investments in defenses. In comparison, the majority of Scizor invest significantly in their HP, and plenty of them in special defense as well. Out of the six EV spreads with enough usage to be listed in the june 2012 stats, five had HP investment, totalling over 50% of all Scizor - and that's not counting any rogues in the 30% others. 5% of all Scizor also sported notable spdef investment - hardly a groundbreaking amount, but still way more than genesect.

As for Tyranitar, I specifically said that Scizor's pursuit will outpower a BULKY tar. Offensive Tar has attack investment that, combined with STAB, will obviously beat Scizor's pursuit any day. But if the opponent flees, a standard (heavily invested) Scizor's unstabbed 80 power Pursuit smoothly beats an uninvested Tyranitar's 120 power Pursuit (252+ CB Scizor 80 power Pursuit is stronger than 0 Tyranitar's 80 power Pursuit boosted by STAB, by about 30%). If the opponent stays in, Scizor's got choice band AND technician on its side, so it'll still be stronger than uninvested Tyranitar (252+ CB Scizor 40 power Pursuit, boosted by Technician, is stronger than 0 Atk Tyranitar's 40 power Pursuit, boosted by STAB, by nearly 100%). But this is all academic. My point was that, if you compare the standard CB Scizor to 0 Atk Tyranitar (and those are hardly a rarity. according to our most recent stats, they compose somewhere between 25% and 30% of all Tyranitar), Scizor's Pursuit is superior. In any case, it's one of two OU Pursuit trappers, so it's not like there's a lot of competition.

As for Scizor's bullet punch - you're right on that point as well. Many of the most recent threats, such as thundy-t, are resistant to bullet punch. This is part of mamoswine's popularity - in comparison to the horrendous offensive typing that is steel, ice is a fabulous attack. Scizor might have a power advantage over mamoswine (thanks to technician, CB Scizor's Bullet Punch has more power than CB Mamoswine's Ice Shard), but that's easily compensated for by ice's far superior typing. Since the beginning of CB scizor, it has only had one way to revenge things - its priority bullet punch - and anything that resists it will probably laugh it off. This has been an issue with scizor ever since it learned bullet punch back in the early days of dpp.

But while Scizor's job keeps getting harder and harder - kind of true for any older-generation mons, isn't it? - it still has an advantage over Genesect, Mamoswine, Tyranitar et al. Namely, it does ALL THESE JOBS AT ONCE. If you look at any one of CB Scizor's options, it's easily outclassed. as a u-turn scout, I'd rank mienshao's u-turn far above Scizor's because of its infuriating regenerator keeping it alive, and its ability to abuse LO for move switching. As a priority revenger, Mamoswine's typing probably gives it the advantage right now, and let's not forget that like a bajillion mons can carry choice scarf to instantly transform into viable revenge killers. As a bulky steel/bug, Scizor's never really been durable enough to play the walling game - at best it's a pivot, compared to defensive tanking attackers like slowbro or the occasional volt switch forretress (okay forretress as an attacker is a stretch >_>). As a sweeper, mons with broader coverage, better speed and less need for choice band are plentiful and they can compete with Scizor's bullet punch. And as a pursuit trapper, offensive Tyranitar has always had the edge.

But what mon does all these things for the low low price of one team slot? I think you'll be hard pressed to find one. That, imo, is what has kept Scizor at the top. It's the ability to fill so many team roles and check so many threats in one elegant red package. Introducing Genesect into the picture doesn't change the fact that, at any one of these roles, you'll always find mons that do the job better. Genesect is powerful and flexible and it's a significant mon among those. If you were running Scizor primarily for a role like u-turn scouting, you will probably find Genesect is capable of filling those shoes nicely, if not better than Scizor. But Scizor does more than that for a team - a lot more - and if those other roles (whether they be bp sweeping, revenger priority, pivoting bulk, pursuit trapping, etc) were important to you, I doubt genesect will be "outclassing" your Scizor any time soon.

tl;dr do I really need to write an essay on the most used mon in OU, just to explain why it's not outclassed by genesect (or any other mon)

 

[Dark Fallen Angel]

That's another point; Scizor is not even outclassed in the priority department because of it's bulk, better defensive tipying and acess to U-Turn. Mamoswine has an awful defensive tipying and Breloom is frail and it's tipying is not that good (but it's better than Mamoswine at least), even though Ice and Fighting have much better coverage than Steel.

As long as Mamoswine lacks more resistances or less weakness, Breloom lacks more bulk, and Genesect lacks priority, stat-boosting moves and Pursuit, Scizor will never be outclassed.

 

[SickSevenOne]

As long as Mamoswine lacks more resistances or less weakness, Breloom lacks more bulk, and Genesect lacks priority, stat-boosting moves and Pursuit, Scizor will never be outclassed.

I couldn't have put it better myself man, the fact that Scizor has proved his use in the metagame with his access to a strong STAB priority and heck of an attack stat. He won't be outclassed by a cooler looking bug.

Sure 1 on 1 Scizor would be destroyed but...haha...I don't know where I was going with that.

 

[android]

tl;dr do I really need to write an essay on the most used mon in OU, just to explain why it's not outclassed by genesect (or any other mon)

You're making a good argument against a position that no one is really defending. I, nor anyone else on this thread that I've noticed, have said that Scizor is totally outclassed by Genesect, or by anything else. (Edit: I checked, and personally, I never said it was outclassed at anything.) Genesect does not have strong priority, or any manner of recovery and it's only boosting move is Hone Claws.

The two play different roles, and the common typing and access to U-Turn is really the sole point of comparison, but a very significant one. I believe you stated that Genesect is a better U-Turner. Genesect will indeed fill the role that Scizor did on many Volt-Turn teams, affecting Scizor's usage. That, combined with Genesect's other awesome qualities could push Genesect above Scizor in usage, as is currently the case in DW OU.

My post was primarily a rebuttal to the idea that Genesect won't affect Scizor's usage at all. Scizor is awesome and all, but the idea that metagame shifts won't affect it is ridiculous. I'd be interested to see how Thundurus and Keldeo will affect Scizor's usage this month.

Edit: Scizor's CB 80 base power Pursuit is about 30% stronger than uninvested Tyranitar's pursuit. Scarf Tyranitar and CB Tyranitar are both in used in OU; their existence means that Scizor isn't the strongest Pursuit user. Pursuit trapping Scizor also has issues such as being 2HKOed by Latios in the rain, which happens to be Pursuit's primary target.
Edit 2: I misread your post. Disregard the above.

 

[Marzbar]

Okay, after finally reading all 33 pages, I noticed a lack of talk about one of the new best troll Pokemon: Skill Link Cinccino. The times I've used it in DW, I noticed that a neutral individual hit from rock blast or bullet seed tends to hit for 8 - 10 percent (40 - 50 percent total) and those two types have an interesting coverage that does score super effective hits on things like politoad, gyrados, lanturn, keldeo, tornadus and thundarus. On top of that, it has a base 115 speed, which makes it naturally faster than Thundarus-T, but not Tornadus-T.

Unfortunately it does not have much of Anything to cover steels (unless wake-up slap works well) and it has paper defenses and a base 95 attack, so SE hits are the only way it can get a 1HKO. That said, kings rock does have the side-effect of making flinch incredibly common, hence the troll part.

I went and tested this idea, (using Tail Slap / Bullet Seed / Rock Blast / U-Turn with 252 Atk and Speed EVs and King's Rock equipped and Jolly nature), and the results are in:

- Cinccino dies easily to any strong neutral or SE attack
- It lacks a priority move, which hurts it a lot
- Anything with a Choice Scarf destroys it
- King's Rock doesn't seem to make Flinch a common occurrence, probably only happening 1/3 times you attack (even though each time you attack you get 5 chances for it to kick in)
- Tail Slap seems to miss more than Stone Edge does (I know it has 85% accuracy, but I swear the simulator begs to differ)
- It usually fails to 2HKO anything unless the attack is super effective

Basically it's a gimmicky, adorable glass cannon.... without the cannon.

 

[wobbahax]

That's another point; Scizor is not even outclassed in the priority department because of it's bulk, better defensive tipying and acess to U-Turn. Mamoswine has an awful defensive tipying and Breloom is frail and it's tipying is not that good (but it's better than Mamoswine at least), even though Ice and Fighting have much better coverage than Steel.

As long as Mamoswine lacks more resistances or less weakness, Breloom lacks more bulk, and Genesect lacks priority, stat-boosting moves and Pursuit, Scizor will never be outclassed.

Exactly. Each pokemon has its own niche; mamoswine checks the powerful dragons and thundurus; breloom can put things to sleep and use a same power as scizor priority move; Genesect has nice coverage moves, good speed and nice mixed attacking stats. Scizor can't be "outclassed" because comparing it would be like comparing bread and butter. they're both important in their own way.

 

[Project_Mars]

I went and tested this idea, (using Tail Slap / Bullet Seed / Rock Blast / U-Turn with 252 Atk and Speed EVs and King's Rock equipped and Jolly nature), and the results are in:

- Cinccino dies easily to any strong neutral or SE attack
- It lacks a priority move, which hurts it a lot
- Anything with a Choice Scarf destroys it
- King's Rock doesn't seem to make Flinch a common occurrence, probably only happening 1/3 times you attack (even though each time you attack you get 5 chances for it to kick in)
- Tail Slap seems to miss more than Stone Edge does (I know it has 85% accuracy, but I swear the simulator begs to differ)
- It usually fails to 2HKO anything unless the attack is super effective

Basically it's a gimmicky, adorable glass cannon.... without the cannon.

I knew it had pretty lousy defenses, but I coulda swore it dealt more damage... Hmm, I guess that must be the fact it was early in the meta... Plus genesect's announcement makes it even harder to use. It can't do anything vs bug/steel (let alone steel in general) pity, as I rather like it. Ah well, there is wi-fi or vgc possibly :p
Thanks for testing it

 

[Nysyr]

I went and tested this idea, (using Tail Slap / Bullet Seed / Rock Blast / U-Turn with 252 Atk and Speed EVs and King's Rock equipped and Jolly nature), and the results are in:

- Cinccino dies easily to any strong neutral or SE attack
- It lacks a priority move, which hurts it a lot
- Anything with a Choice Scarf destroys it
- King's Rock doesn't seem to make Flinch a common occurrence, probably only happening 1/3 times you attack (even though each time you attack you get 5 chances for it to kick in)
- Tail Slap seems to miss more than Stone Edge does (I know it has 85% accuracy, but I swear the simulator begs to differ)
- It usually fails to 2HKO anything unless the attack is super effective

Basically it's a gimmicky, adorable glass cannon.... without the cannon.

Wait till you see what happens when you use Tail slap and a ferrothorn switches in lol.

 

[alkinesthetase]

android: alright then i think i misunderstood you. we agree =P

as for cinccino, i think multihit moves were glitched for a sec on PS. haven't read around, but i was chilling in the chat a few days ago and saw someone talking about bullet seed ohkoing something in one hit. it's just hearsay and i'm pretty sure i'm remembering it wrong, so don't take too much from that statement, but i recall hearing "something" about it.

besides, let's remember that cinccino is a pretty low tier mon.... it can only accomplish so much. it stands a chance of escaping NU now that it has skill link (NU's not a tier I'm familiar with so i hardly have the experience to make such a broad claim >_>), but there's no way that little squirrel is headed to OU. also don't forget that it had technician before, so the average power of its multihit moves was (like breloom) 118.75. now that all five hits are guaranteed, the power goes to 125. more consistency for sure, which is always sweet when you're messing with 5-hit moves, but the boost is actually not all that big. in addition, as smogon's analysis notes, losing technician means that cinccino loses its pseudo-stab wakeup slap, which was key fighting coverage for it. granted i'd imagine a fair number of cinccino were running u-turn anyway.

also, the chance for skill linked 5-hitters to flinch at least one hit out of five, with a king's rock in hand, is 1-(0.9^5) = ~41%. so one third isn't too far off. (pretty simple math, but i'll explain just to be clear. the chance of flinch off kings rock, iirc, is 10%. so the chance to not flinch is 90%, and the chance of that happening five times in a row is 0.9^5. then 100% minus 59% is 41%) not bad at all, but it's no jirachi. overall cinccino got a boost from skill link, but not a big one. it's not gonna be making a mark on OU any time soon.

 

[Bossness]

To all those who say that Scizor will take a dive in usage: http://stats.pokemon-online.eu/DW%20OU/index.html. This is the DW OU tier in the PO server where chandelure in banned. The tier hasnt changed for months. Genesect at 1 and Scizor at 3. Now I know some of you are going to say that there are some differences in the tiers used in the smogon server and PO server. That is not the point here. The PO server's DW OU tier is nearly the same as the Wifi OU tier in smogon now. Please dont argue with me. I just wanted to point out that the usage statistics goes against arguments which say that Genesect outclassed Scizor. So I leave this up to discussion.

 

[Style_Dota]

Well, genesect and Scizor are completely different Pokemon, so I don't see how genesect outclasses Scizor.

First off, they hit from opposite ends of the spectrum, and while Genesect is faster, the combination of Special Volt Turners means that Special Walls (Blissey, gastrodon, Chansey) will shit on Genesect + Volt Switch user. I know, team support, but Physical Attacker with U-Turn + Special Attacker with Volt Switch threaten things from opposite ends, making it much more difficult to switch in certain walls. In addition, while you might be able to go into a Pokemon to can handle the special wall, you lose your momentum via volt-turn. So yeah, it's a tradeoff, speed for a slight loss of momentum.

tl:dr they're not the same, so one doesn't outclass the other.

 

[Machi]

To all those who say that Scizor will take a dive in usage: http://stats.pokemon-online.eu/DW%20OU/index.html. This is the DW OU tier in the PO server where chandelure in banned. The tier hasnt changed for months. Genesect at 1 and Scizor at 3. Now I know some of you are going to say that there are some differences in the tiers used in the smogon server and PO server. That is not the point here. The PO server's DW OU tier is nearly the same as the Wifi OU tier in smogon now. Please dont argue with me. I just wanted to point out that the usage statistics goes against arguments which say that Genesect outclassed Scizor. So I leave this up to discussion.

You know smogon does have its own stats:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3468856
While yes Chandelure is there its not as if Scizor was a particular check to the trapping ghost and even if Chandelure left it doesn't mean he would take such a nose dive outside of being part of the top OU bracket. Still with these two stats point is the fears of Gensect making Scizor obsolete is just plain silly Scizor will still be there just that Gensect will compete with him in certain aspects. The statistics however don't reveal exactly what does Gensect outclass Scizor on or if there is something else about Gensect completely different from Scizor that warranted more usage of one over the other, which Scizor did not offer so that you couldn't really say it was just a matter of being out classed as much as a different role that comparisons would be apples and oranges.

 

[superbadd]

I just wanted to point out that the usage statistics goes against arguments which say that Genesect outclassed Scizor completely. So I leave this up to discussion.

If you knew how to read you would know no one said genesect outclasses scizor completely. Genesect is a better volt-turn user(that's ALL that was said) and WILL take that niche away from scizor like it or not. Po's stats are a joke, blaziken and deoxys-n had below ou usage when they were banned and freaking virizion was in ru. And don't go with the whole "don't argue with me" crap, people are you gonna argue with you if you are wrong, which you are. If you're gonna use crap statistics to prove an argument no one is arguing against, people have every right to take that argument from you and hand it back in tatters. Sorry for the harsh tone, but please construct your arguments more intelligently.

 

[Bossness]

I never made an argumemt. I was just pointing something out. If I was wrong, okay you could have just stated your arguments instead of being uncivilized and rude and fire angry comments at me. Dont you know how to behave? Why do you think I told no one to argue against me? I wouldnt mind if people comment on what was wrong and all but not when someone intentionally offends me. Have you ever seen me being rude, like ever? You tell me to learn to read? Just watch your mouth first. BTW what is it about PO statistics that makes it crap?
P.S I hope a moderator checks things here and stops this before it gets ugly. To the moderators: how can someone attack me like that and get away willy-nilly?

 

[Dark Fallen Angel]

I remember that someone posted that the generic teams nowadays are Politoed + Tornadus-T + Thundurus-T + Starmie + Mamoswine + filler.

Considering the popularity of Starmie and the fact thar Tornadus-T is effectively immune to Stealth Rock thanks to Regenerator, I am curious to know which is more viable; Using hazards to facilitate KOs, or just using sheer power.

 

[G-Von]

Can we please just stop with the Genesect/Scizor discussion? They are two pokemon with the same typing BUT they serve two different roles.

Scizor: Physical sweeper/revenge killer who has created a niche for itself with its STAB Technician boosted priority Bullet Punch which can be further abused with a Choice Band or Swords Dance.

Genesect: A special attacker who has its own niche with amazing coverage, along with its ability, Download, which can lead to pseudo-STAB attacks on the special side, or give it another boost on top of its STAB U-turn to make huge holes while scouting pokemon.

Both pokes have their own niche. I could see using both of them on a rain team since their weakness gets cut in half. Choose whatever Scizor set fits best for your team and slap a Choice Scarf on Genesect and you're good to go!

 

[Thorhammer]

- King's Rock doesn't seem to make Flinch a common occurrence, probably only happening 1/3 times you attack (even though each time you attack you get 5 chances for it to kick in)

Actual chance is 41% over the course of the five hits. But yeah, nothing to count on.