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np: NU Stage 5 - Won't Get Fooled Again

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I'm gonna have to agree with everyone saying Absol is better than Skuntank currently :(
It really is just mainly for the stronger Sucker Punch at this point. Being able to revenge Golurk, Cinccino, Braviary, and a whole host of other threats is just amazing for a lot of offensive teams.

And guys Musharna is still pretty effective considering it beats the regen core pretty handily with Synchronize and Heal Bell. Its bulk is still incredible and granted new fangled threats like Golurk smash it, it still beats Sawk, Tauros and Scarf Braviary, which as uncommon as they are still matter in teambuilding. I've also heard of the Specs set still doing work as well as it retains some bulk while being strong as hell.

I'm also gonna hype up Zangoose. Its so incredibly strong and it has decent speed. After the Toxic Boost it shreds Regen Cores to pieces as everything either gets Ohkoed or 2hkoed. 4atks Zangoose is the best set in my opinion because its so hard to set up a Swords Dance when Zangoose is as frail as it is. 4atks lets you just hit hard and keep the best coverage you can get while keeping priority as well.

Edit: bs dtc
 
Alright, a little late to the party, but I figured since a few big changes had happened in NU that I might as well jump back in for a little bit. I'm loving the new BW2 changes a lot right now, and Golurk just strongth.

I threw together a Spike-stacking offensive team a while ago with Garbodor, Cinccino, Throh, Lickilicky, Klang, and Golurk, and it's been doing fairly well. Cinccino is broken, hands-down; it's coverage and damage output are ridiculous, and there are few things that outpace it. The only thing you have to worry about is missing with Rock Blast or Tail Slap. Hell, if things are looking too bad for the little mouse-thing he can just U-turn out. I've got two phazers to help rack up the Spikes damage, but this thing forces just as many switches as I could get with my phazers.
Throh and Lickilicky make great phazing partners while Garbodor sets up the hazards. Golurk's CB set is just brutal, and he also serves to eliminate any of the pitiful spinners that are left in the tier (kind of funny that the one round people absolutely NEED Cryo's spinning abilities he leaves the tier).
Klang isn't all that it's being hyped up to be, but I have to say it's pretty damn good. The amount of things it can set up on is absurd, and when it can set up it can do so multiple times. It really brings the glory days of Klinklang to mind, as it's virtually a weaker albeit sturdier version of the same Pokemon.

In regards to current conversation, with how similar Zangoose seems to be to Swellow and Ursaring I really don't see its usage getting high enough to throw it up to RU. If anything, it just widens the options that people have for a fast and powerful Normal attacker. All three really have their own specific niche while also being able to perform similar roles.

Now, if you want to talk about a Pokemon who's REALLY going to obliterate its competition, you should be talking Amoonguss. This bro just lols at Tangela and Vileplume now. Of course, we probably won't have him past this round, so I'd enjoy having a super shroom while you can.

(I'd rather not continue to ramble, so post end)
 
Toa Tahu said:
According to Serebii, Shadow Tag Gothitelle (Technically Gothorita) will be released on August 9th.
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Interesting. I genuinely don't think of Shadow Tag much, since there are only three fully-evolved Pokemon who have the ability, and all of them are thoroughly mediocre Pokes even with the ability. Gothitelle has the distinct title of "least viable Shadow Tag user" among those three. That Shadow Tag makes Gothitelle better is obvious, but I don't see it getting banned in the near future.
 
No, it's definitely not ban worthy, but I think Tahu was just trying to make a discussion topic out of it.

I think Shadow Tag Gothitelle would be a great addition to the current metagame. She has always seemed to me like a mix of Musharna and Gardevoir based on stats, and like all Psychic Pokémon she has a great move pool. Shadow Tag would actually give people a real reason to use her as she's otherwise outclassed in virtually everything she can do by the two previously mentioned 'mons. With enough investment in bulk she's able to take quite a few hits from popular Fighting types, whom she can easily trap and dispose of. Garbodor would also be quite screwed, as it would only be able to lay 1-2 layers of Spikes before being completely eliminated (of course, sometimes 2 layers is all you need). Personally, I can't wait to try Gothitelle's new ability out when it's released.
 
Gothitelle hits me as potentially the most interesting of the Shadow Taggers, not because I think it will be anywhere near the best, but because I think it has the most potential to run gimmicky sets a lot better than most things. Sure it can Calm Mind up to +6/+6 just like Chandelure, but the amount of unique things it could potentially pull off is a bit crazy.

For instance, Gothitelle learns Torment through TM and Trick through the BW2 tutors. A set containing the two and maybe Protect or Sub could theoretically force anything to die to struggle recoil. Admittedly this would be a one shot deal if it couldn't figure out how to trick back it's choice item before it's opponent died of struggle recoil, but Gothitelle also gets Thunder Wave, Low Sweep, and Rock Tomb, which should all allow it to slow down it's opponent so that it can trick away it's item right before the final struggle. It's really a pity it doesn't learn encore, since that would make this even easier to pull off.

On a similar note, it can completely wreck mono-attackers like Alomomola with Taunt + Torment.

It can come in and use Heal Bell without any fear of losing momentum (thank you move tutors), or set up Trick Room without worrying about the same.

It can theoretically toxic stall anything that isn't poison or steel type that doesn't have the stats to kill it fast enough, or Thunder Wave anything your team needs slowed down even if it doesn't have the power or stats to stop it.

Personally however, my favorite idea for a potential gimmick is Starf Berry+Recycle. Come in on something with pitiful offensive power, consistently get into Starf range, Rest, Recycle, and repeat until +6 in all stats. The two main problems are that there are few things with that weak attacking stats even in NU and the set suffers from serious four move syndrome, since it needs to either run Sub to help with getting it's HP low and protect from crits (thus becomming a mono-attacker and being infinitely wallable even at +6) or two attacks and be susceptible to crits and have problems getting in Starf Range. Theoreticaly, at least one of those problems could be solved by Eviolite Gothorita with some combination of moves to make sure that this isn't an issue. Eviolite Gothorita has 16.8% more maximum Physical Bulk and 19.1% more maximum Special Bulk than Gothitelle, and could theoretically run something like Charm/Captivate/Rest/(maybe Flash, Taunt, or Toxic, I don't know what the fourth move would be), in order to set things up for Gothitelle to come in safely and set up or kill.

Come to think of it, Gothorita + Gothitelle could potentially be a very annoying combo, with Gothorita setting up things for Gothitelle to kill or just Toxic Stalling in its own right.

Edit: Forgot to mention just Trick in and of itself. With it, Gothitelle has the power to screw over any wall in the tier at will.
 
Agreed; Trick Gothitelle (hell, taunt goth even) will just wreck regen cores. It's going to be interesting for sure.
 
Ok, so I'm not sure if everyone else was aware of this, but I figured it needed to be said: If you are running Imposter Ditto and you copy a Pokemon with Hidden Power, you won't copy the type, just the move. I don't know if it's supposed to be like that or it's just a bug on Showdown, but I haven't seen anyone else mention anything about it.

So make sure you've selected the Hidden Power type you want in case you actually have to use it. (sorry if that was something that everyone else was already aware of)

EDIT: Thanks Django, doing that now.
 
Yeah thats the way it is meant to be, which can be kind of annoying. Ideally you should look at your team and find what threats you really want to revenge kill, and from there pick a Hidden Power that will suit your needs.
 
I've been using Serperior, and it's really great. Both its Coil and CM sets are hard to deal with, especially with its good speed and bulk. I wish that it never gets Contrary as it will make the other sets obsolete.
 
One Pokemon who I've found to be very effective when used against me is SubSeed Exeggutor. It seems like almost nothing that is slower than it can beat it. Walls have such a reliance on status moves so Substitute really screws them over. Sitrus + Harvest makes it incredibly bulky, too. It can take a huge onslaught of physical attacks and end up almost completely unharmed because it can Sitrus off the damage. Its Psychic is still really strong without investment, too, and it prevents Amoonguss from beating it. Sleep Powder is really handy over Protect (which is listed on the analysis onsite) too. I suppose Cincinno would be a problem for it, but really, i'd be surprised if even Cincinno has enough power to beat if it comes in on a Substitute. It's too bad that Toxic Spikes aren't usable with all the Poison-types running around because it would work really well with them on the field.
 
diinbong said:
One Pokemon who I've found to be very effective when used against me is SubSeed Exeggutor. It seems like almost nothing that is slower than it can beat it. Walls have such a reliance on status moves so Substitute really screws them over. Sitrus + Harvest makes it incredibly bulky, too. It can take a huge onslaught of physical attacks and end up almost completely unharmed because it can Sitrus off the damage. Its Psychic is still really strong without investment, too, and it prevents Amoonguss from beating it. Sleep Powder is really handy over Protect (which is listed on the analysis onsite) too. I suppose Cincinno would be a problem for it, but really, i'd be surprised if even Cincinno has enough power to beat if it comes in on a Substitute. It's too bad that Toxic Spikes aren't usable with all the Poison-types running around because it would work really well with them on the field.
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Why not Psyshock? You'd probably be able to do more damage to Lickilicky with Psyshock than you would otherwise with Psychic.

I love Harvest Exeggutor as well. However, most Cincinno come with U-turn nowadays, so the Sub's going to diminish if it comes in on one.
 
/B/utterfree said:
Why not Psyshock? You'd probably be able to do more damage to Lickilicky with Psyshock than you would otherwise with Psychic.

I love Harvest Exeggutor as well. However, most Cincinno come with U-turn nowadays, so the Sub's going to diminish if it comes in on one.
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Most Pokemon that are immune to Leech Seed, such as Amoonguss and Tangela, are hit harder by Psychic since they normally invest in Defense.
 
I agree with Exeggutor being pretty good right now even though I personally use Sunny Day; it absolutely destroys every Regen core without Audino as well as Cinccino, Tangela, Swellow and Zangoose under sunlight. Sleep Powder is also invaluable in those rare cases where it lasts longer than one turn.

Another pokemon that has been really working out for me in the current metagame so far is Ludicolo. It's in the same boat as Exeggutor, being able to manhandle Regen cores as long as it hits Amoonguss on the switch, while also taking on the same Pokemon Exeggutor does. It also takes on most Samurott without Megahorn easily, a feat present in few Pokemon.

Weather sweepers in general seem to be really good right now, since, apart from the aforementioned Regen cores (which aren't too hard to break), the metagame has turned a lot more offensive and a lot less bulky. Pokemon such as Swellow, Zangoose and Swoobat are around every corner, so Ludicolo doesn't have problems dealing huge damage for the most part. Also, a lot of the Pokemon that actually ARE bulky are either weak to one of its attacks (Probopass, Bastiodon, Tangela, Alomomola, Amoonguss, Exeggutor) or can't do much back (Musharna, except Thunder Waving I guess). Audino and Lickilicky stand out as good checks to Ludicolo, but I honestly can't think of much else other than these two and priority.
 
/B/utterfree said:
Why not Psyshock? You'd probably be able to do more damage to Lickilicky with Psyshock than you would otherwise with Psychic.

I love Harvest Exeggutor as well. However, most Cincinno come with U-turn nowadays, so the Sub's going to diminish if it comes in on one.
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Except that the fact that Lickilicky would still be able to out-heal Psyshock anyways. Looking at the metagame now, there's really not much reason to run Psyshock over Psychic, since as said before, you get a stronger hit on Leech Seed immune Pokemon like bulky Grasses and Sap Sipper Miltank.

As for Cincinno, you could just.... predict the U-turn and use Substitute again, meaning that the threat of U-turn is a minor issue at best.
 
There's a Pokemon I would like to bring attention to that I don't see on every team, even though I should. This Pokemon is Golurk.

golurk.jpg


Except for Cinccino(its best offensive partner) Golurk might be the best Pokemon in the tier right now, its Choice Band set is nearly unbeatable. A simple set of Earthquake / Shadow Punch / Ice Punch / Drain Punch 2HKOs the entire meta except for Weezing and Alomomola after Stealth Rock. And those two pokemon dont deter set up at all. And neither of them can KO back, Weezing can WoW but that's it.

Here is a list of Pokemon that can switch into Golurk and OHKO it:
Slaking
Samurott sometimes

That is all I can find that can actually. Every other Pokemon in the tier is unable to actually switch in and handle Golurk. That basically makes Golurk a huge prediction war every time it comes in, and it gets a lot of changes to switch in. With three immunities, all of which are at least somewhat common. Golurk is a huge force to be reckoned with.

Though I guess the best way to talk about Golurk is to compare him to the other common choice band mons: Emboar and Braviary.

Golurk doesn't hit quite as hard because his moves are weaker, he doesn't get u-turn like Braviary but instead he resists Stealth Rock, has better super effective coverage, does not rely on recoil inducing moves, has more immunities to switch in on.

So i guess what I'm getting at: use Golurk more. it owns everything
 
^ Basically that. Golurk hits so stupidly hard its just dumb. CB is probably the best set I've used so far as the Sub set gets rocked by Cinccino and its weak with Lefties. But if you give CB some hazard support it just shakes the entire metagame up and lets faster teammates clean up late game.

Seriously. Use him.
 
Also, Golurk has a 99.61% chance to 2HKO Alomomola after SR+a layer of Spikes :) But yeah, agreeing with all these things, I've been running a Spike-Stacking offense team with CB Golurk and CB Cincinno, and it's incredibly effective. Only problem I ever really encounter is Weezing (Tangela can get 2HKOed by both after SR with the appropriate move), and that gets worn down pretty fast when it's only really recovery is Lefties+Pain Split. So yeah, use Golurk, but run less speed than me~
 
So, for the record, who ISN'T running a Spike-stacking offense of some sort right now with Cinccino and/or Golurk?

EDIT: Just asking because it seems like this is the majority of what I've seen lately (although I haven't been able to battle for a few days).
 
Spike-stacking offense is def the way to go (and the most fun) this stage. I haven't tried Golurk out myself but I have been using Cinccino (King's Rock and LO) to wear down the opponent's team and Sub Salac Swoobat for lategame sweeping (getting +2 Speed from a berry is amazing, but hard to set up). Surprisingly, I haven't seen too many Regenerator cores, which I was expecting to appear with Regenerator Amoongus and Alomomola joining Tangela in NU...
 
Now that Golurk and Cinccino is all the rage, really, one of the main players of this stage that went under the radar has got to be Cacturne. Whenever we talk about Golurk and Cinccino, we talk about Spikes support all the time - sometimes SR + and at least 1 layer is "assumed" whenever you're playing against that core! Cacturne is a spiker that saw little usage, but as FLCL's team shows, Cacturne can be really annoying to face. Sucker Punch is still a good priority, and you can have fun revenging weakened Cinccino and stuff that just gets worn down by Cacturne's own spikes. Encore gives hell vs. slower mons. Bullet seed still has that usage vs. Golem, but I really haven't seen Golem in ages: he's just not up to snuff in this Amoonguss and Cinccino-infested metagame.

Amoonguss can switch in consistently, but other than getting 1 mon slept (which is usually going to happen unless all of your mons can OHKO Amoonguss or you have Sub all over the team-something unlikely), if you have a reliable switch to it, you can systematically set up spikes all over. With Emboar usage really dropping now, there's really no reason not to go ahead and try Cacturne! Doesn't matter whether you're using Cinccino, Golurk, special Samurott, Zangoose, anything, Spikes are guaranteed to give your opponent a hell of a time.
 
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Alright here's my opinions on the giant ghost robot.

There's literally NOTHING in the tier that can switch into Choice Band Golurk if three layers of Spikes are on the field. Without it, Tangela and Alomomola can hold their own but even then I can't think of much else that can handle the strength and coverage of the Choice Band set. Luckily, it can easily be trapped by Absol or walled if you have magic mind reading skills. Skuntank does not work unless it's a Life Orb variant since bulkier versions survive Crunch even after hazards. By far the best Golurk set.

Substitute versions are a lot easier to deal with in my opinion since a lot more Pokemon can take its attacks, but against offense teams it's pretty much guaranteed a kill every time it comes in safely. Although frowned upon by a lot of players, I've been trying a set of Substitute / Earthquake / DynamicPunch / Stone Edge which has both impressed and disappointed me at the same time. If luck is on your side, this set can muscle through every physical wall in the tier except Misdreavus. Usually, all it takes is two turns of confusion coupled with Earthquake spamming to take down things like Alomomola, Musharna, and Amoonguss. However, it is extremely weak and fails to do significant damage after DynamicPunch runs out of PP. I paired it up with Spikes support, so the opponent couldn't just switch out of confusion easily, but I can see this set letting down others who use it without Spikes. Not something I would rely on for tournaments and stuff. Focus Punch is pretty much the same except you can actually 3HKO Tangela now, lol.

Support is for anyone who wants to feel outclassed by the various Stealth Rock users in the tier who can actually take a hit super-effective hit (Regirock, Camerupt, Miltank, Lairon, Torterra to an extent) or have Sturdy to almost guarantee hazards (Probopass, Carracosta, Bastiodon, Golem, even Sudowoodo!!). Like the Substitute set, it suffers from lack of power unless you're running Life Orb. Don't use it unless you really have no space for Stealth Rocks on other team members.

People are praising Golurk's ability as a spin-blocker but honestly I think Misdreavus does the job more reliably, especially on defensive teams. However, on more offensively oriented teams, Golurk is usually a better choice since it does not kill off momentum so easily. It might lose one in a while to Wartortle due to Scald burns or crits but it still prevents the spin and hurts it enough so that it can't come in again to remove hazards even if it does get the burn.

Also, I'm curious about how much speed you guys are running on Golurk. Do you go the Raseri way and run max Speed or go the bulky way with no Speed at all? Personally I like to run enough to outspeed Alomomola so it can grab the 2HKO with Spikes, but I'd like to hear your opinions. I won't speed creep anyone, I promise!
 
I've run max speed before, but honestly, I see very little point in it. Honestly, the only real benchmarks I saw worth hitting without dropping Adamant were Defensive Altaria (who isn't particularly common) and Garbodor to hit him before he sets a layer of Spikes. So atm I've been aiming to outpace Alomomola.
 
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