Counter This Pokemon [ginganinja vs TEMP V1]

How strict the time limits are is really going to be the deciding factor on how well this moves along. The longest time between periods I'd suggest is 2 days, after that people tend to forget about it or anything worthwhile has already been mentioned. If this moves along quickly and efficiently then it should be awesome, but if it takes as long as a CCAT we're in for a ride.
 
Here's a log of me, Pocket, and ginganinja discussing the direction in which we are going to take this thread.
15[18:10:37] <%NixHex> sup pocketz
[18:10:39] <+pockaway> you started Counter that Pokemon!
[18:10:41] <+pockaway> btw
[18:10:45] <+pockaway> i'm pretty sure
[18:10:52] <+pockaway> people are supposed to nominate specific sets
[18:10:57] <+pockaway> not just Pokemon
[18:11:04] <+pockaway> and then people vote on the specific sets
[18:11:10] <+pockaway> much faster and focused that way
15[18:11:11] <%NixHex> yeah that's in the rules
15[18:11:19] <%NixHex> pokemon, then set
[18:11:21] <+pockaway> but people are just posting pokemon
15[18:11:26] <%NixHex> yes
15[18:11:38] <%NixHex> it needs to be multiple sets
[18:11:41] <+pockaway> i think it's more efficient to nominate a set
15[18:11:42] <%NixHex> a pokemon has more than one sets
[18:11:45] <+pockaway> and then just vote on it
[18:11:48] <+pockaway> ?
[18:12:03] <+pockaway> yea, but only 1 set can be used on a tema
[18:12:08] <+pockaway> *team
15[18:12:17] <%NixHex> the point is
15[18:12:20] <%NixHex> when you see a pokemon
15[18:12:36] <%NixHex> you don't think "i know that has a scarf, better send out someone who takes dick from that"
15[18:12:49] <%NixHex> you think "oh fuck, is that thing running band, scarf, rock gem, or what?"
[18:13:06] <%ginganinja> actually I agree with Pocket
[18:13:10] <%ginganinja> nom a set
[18:13:15] <%ginganinja> id also add something like
[18:13:18] <+pockaway> that's how jabba did it
[18:13:39] <%ginganinja> whoever successfully noms the most sets, on team 1, gets to use it against Team 2
[18:13:44] <%ginganinja> same thing for Team 2

[18:15:35] <%ginganinja> Pocket your a team rater right?
[18:15:47] <%ginganinja> get team raters involved
15[18:15:52] <%NixHex> by teams do you mean arbitrary teams that contain each pokemon or are we talking full thought out teams?
15[18:15:57] <%NixHex> CCAT style
[18:16:00] <%ginganinja> its a good exercise for them
[18:16:08] <%ginganinja> well
[18:16:14] <%ginganinja> the basic idea is
[18:16:20] <%ginganinja> say
[18:16:24] <%ginganinja> um
[18:16:26] <%ginganinja> Tyranitar
[18:16:28] <%ginganinja> gets picked
[18:16:41] <%ginganinja> and its like
[18:16:43] <%ginganinja> DD Tar
[18:17:05] <%ginganinja> Team 2 then has to pick a pokemon to counter DD Tar
[18:17:06] <%ginganinja> they pick
[18:17:11] <%ginganinja> BU Conkeldurr
[18:17:27] <%ginganinja> Team 1 (I think it gets to pick 2 pokemon at this stage)
[18:17:43] <%ginganinja> realises it has a BU Conk weakness, decides to counter it
[18:18:04] <%ginganinja> picks something to defeat conk
[18:18:16] <%ginganinja> and so on
[18:18:20] <%ginganinja> the end result
[18:18:25] <%ginganinja> are 2 teams
[18:18:36] <%ginganinja> that both have good match ups against each other
[18:18:50] <%ginganinja> you then have them battle
15[18:19:00] <%NixHex> so should this just be changed to a CCAT?
[18:19:07] <%ginganinja> its not a CCAT
15[18:19:20] <%NixHex> CCAMU
15[18:19:24] <%NixHex> match up
[18:19:29] <%ginganinja> ehh
[18:19:36] <%ginganinja> its still counter the pokemon
[18:19:48] <%ginganinja> but it looks at countering pokemon in a team
[18:19:55] <%ginganinja> in this sense
[18:19:59] <%ginganinja> its not going to be good on the ladder
[18:20:11] <%ginganinja> since both teams are limited to beating each other
[18:20:21] <%ginganinja> but its still good practise for everything
[18:20:28] <%ginganinja> in learning to counter things in a team
[18:20:49] <%ginganinja> for example MoxieMixMence is impossible to counter in your old thread
[18:21:01] <%ginganinja> however in the new thread
[18:21:04] <%ginganinja> you can run like
[18:21:05] <%ginganinja> a scarfer
[18:21:10] <%ginganinja> or a couple of checks
[18:21:40] <%ginganinja> im doing a poor job of explaining it but you now have an entire team to counter stuff
[18:21:49] <%ginganinja> rather than just 1 pokemon
15[18:21:58] <%NixHex> i understand
15[18:22:10] <%NixHex> it's on a grander scale than just counter one pokemon

Here is the format in UU started by JabbaTheGriffin which we will follow. I'm going out for yogurt now so I'll arrange my thoughts later but for now, list one Pokemon with one set, including Nature, EVs, IVs (if relevant), and Item. One per person.That's all that needs to be done for now.
 
i don't usually post on these things, but i like spectating, so one suggestion: we've already got a ton of nominations, so in the future, is it even necessary to receive more? we can establish a pool of nominations from the ones that we already have, and each time we reach stage 1, we just vote another mon out of the pool and into the spotlight. we only have to resume nominating mons once we actually run out.

also, if every nomination specifies the sets that will be addressed, then that saves time in voting for them. some mons like jirachi can run a TON of sets so it's important to narrow them down quickly. we can thereby minimize the number of sets proposed to be added in stage 2.

finally, some mons have relatively few sets, and since we're focused on the ability of other mons to counter the sets, some sets can be compressed together. for example, starmie's standard set is something like starmie @ LO hydro pump/ice beam/tbolt/rapid spin. if we give it specs, almost every mon that counters the specs set (ie can take its hits and return the favor) will also be a counter to LO sets, since specs obviously hits harder than LO. we're already concerned about the worst case scenario, so the advantage of being able to switch moves is largely mitigated by the assumption that our opponent predicts perfectly. therefore we can count these sets as the same, and only concern ourselves with countering the one that deals more damage. i guess the problem, or advantage, of this mindset is that our countering philosophy will naturally gravitate towards the sets that are most difficult to counter (cb/specs), setting aside sets whose counter pools are supersets of the stronger ones.

EDIT: oops, got ninja'd by the official decision
 
Lets get to it

Meloetta

name: Relic Mixed
move 1: Relic Song
move 2: Close Combat
move 3: Thunder / Thunderbolt (Depending on whether we use Rain or not)
move 4: Psychic / HP Ice
item: Life Orb
nature: Naive
evs: 56 Atk / 252 SpA / 200 Spe

Ripped straight from the analysis. I have used this set myself, its very, very effective at cleaning things late game, as well as generally being a bitch. Its tricky to counter, in that Relic Song sleeps one pokemon 20% of the time, but its hardly broken. Meloetta can fit into a lot of teams, which means that we are not constraining ourselves to one particular playstyle (such as weather), and provides us with a good solid base for future team members. Its versatile, has nice bulk, and it needs more usage cos its a great pokemon.
 
EDIT: Wait, now I am confused. I am going to delete the contents of this post and save it onto notepad, and put it back when I think I understand what's actually happening. Are we countering the set Ginga posted, or still nominating more sets?

EDIT2: I now understand but my saved post is no long relevant so I will just leave this here. Feel free to delete.
 
Alright then, posting a single set. I change my pokemon (that's ok, right?)

641T.png

Tornadus-T @ Life Orb
4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive nature
~Hurricane (in Rain)
~U-Turn
~Superpower
~Heat wave

This thing will be in Rain, because that's where it works best.
 
I don't mean to interrupt your yogurt, but I don't see how this differs from the old thread (disregarding voting on the Pokémon) if we're just supposed to recommend a set

But keeping at it is
Abomasnow - Choice Scarf
Snow Warning - Hasty
252 SpA 16 Atk 240 Spe
Blizzard
Wood Hammer
HP Fire
Earthquake

Taken straight from the analysis. Abomasnow's Blizzard is a force to be reckoned with, and the same thing goes for Wood Hammer. But in the likely event that a Pokémon originally thought to be a good counter switches in, it can be dealt with surprisingly effectively through HP Fire or Earthquake. The biggest problem with this set is trying to find good teammates to take Abomasnow's true counters that don't mind the Hail
 
Ok, to clear up some confusion, I'll explain it as I read it:

There will be two groups of people, and they'll each pick pokemon for their team. First, ONE pokemon is chosen for Team 1. Then, a pokemon is chosen for Team 2, designed to counter the pokemon Team 1 picked. Then T1 picks a counter to T2's counter, and then so on and so forth until both teams are complete.

So, right now, we are picking the first pokemon, to get this whole thing started.

Now, since there are going to be two teams made in this process, are we going to split in groups or work on both together? If it's the former, I suggest we split teams before we choose pokemon.

I hope this cleared some things up. If you're still confused, look at JabbatheGriffin's thread- that helps.
 
I'm going to go ahead and put my support behind Ginganinja now, before I forget, because:
1 - I would have nominated a very similar Meloetta set anyway
2 - Meloetta is an excellent pokemon for us to start with as it can fit in well with almost any team unlike Tornadus-T, which will be wanting Politoed, or Abomasnow, which will want teammates which don't mind the hail and
3 - Meloetta is pretty bulky in Aria forme and pretty fast in Pirouette forme (and powerful in both), and so will likely be able to check a large number of threats which could make their way into Team 2.
 
Politoed (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Straight from the on-site analysis:
While Politoed admittedly lacks the traits of traditional Choice Specs users, most notably high Special Attack and Speed stats, Drizzle makes it a potent threat. Factoring in rain's boost to Water-type attacks, Politoed's double-STAB Hydro Pump is the golden arrow of OU, powering through many Pokemon that resist it. Unlike other Choice Specs users, Politoed can be played like a tank, should you not require it to be healthy in order to restore rain. Its pure-Water typing gives it few weaknesses, and with good bulk, it can sponge even some super effective attacks.
 
I'm cool with throwing my support behind ginganinja's Meloetta as well, simply because I don't know anything about it, and I'm interested in learning how to use it as well as how to counter it effectively. It seems like both a good and unique first pick which paves the way for this project to be more than a simple rain team versus a sun team, as well as a great learning experience for us.

Correct me if I've misunderstood the point/direction of this thread.
 
380.png

Latias (Calm Mind + 2 Attacks)
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Dragon Pulse
move 3: Recover
move 4: Hidden Power Fire
item: Leftovers
ability: Levitate
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

Latias is good. Calm Mind is good. Both together are excellent. This set is a fantastic late-game sweeper with the bulk to set up at least one boost and blast through unprepared teams. Should she take a weaker hit, not to worry - the same bulk that let her set up can give her a chance to use Recover! Dragon/Fire coverage is excellent, hitting some of OU's most common Pokemon super effectively. For the purposes of the thread, assume that there is no weather.
 
Lol the thread that died was mine :P. i was a little busy to keep it going but anyway on to my suggestion... With Kyurem's improved forms sitting happily in ubers i suggest Kyurem. He has great coverage, decent bulk albeit coming with a lackluster speed.


Kyurem @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SAtk / 224 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Ice Beam/ Blizzard
- Focus Blast/ Earth Power/ Hidden Power [FIRE]
- Draco Meteor/ Dragon Pulse
- Protect

In the final spot i put protect so CB Scizor can't come in and KO it easily however roost is equally viable for the extra longevity. Although it is quite weak to hazards it has a lot of potential to be a very devestating foe. EP hits 'rachi harder, Focus Blast hits ttar while HP [FIRE] hits scizor. Draco or Dragon Pulse is up to you guys.
 
381.png

Latios @ Expert Belt
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Special Attack / 252 Speed
Timid Nature
Moves:
- Dragon Pulse
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Psyshock

This set covers a lot of Pokemon. When a Scizor comes in thinking it can counter it, it gets nailed by Hidden Power [Fire]. Dragon Pulse is the STAB move here which will hit anything not a steel which is why HP Fire is for. Surf also smacks Heatran and Tyranitar. Blissey definitely won't appreciate a Psyshock from Latios's massive base 130 Special Attack stat. Latios also has a above average base Speed at 110 allowing it to outspeed most of the metagame. Latios's great base 110 Special Defense stat also always him to take on special attacks, especially from Rotom-W, a widely used Pokemon in the metagame. Expert Belt allows Latios to take advantage of his fantastic coverage and pound an extra 20% power if the move is super effective.
 
Now, since there are going to be two teams made in this process, are we going to split in groups or work on both together?

I would like to know this as well. Lots of people will post suggestions for Team 1, and if we don't want to have a huge Team 1 and a tiny Team 2, we should clarify this point as soon as possible. Sorry if I minsunderstood something.

Anyway, since I nominated Terrakion and already got some support, let me post a set:

639.gif


Terrakion @ Choice Band
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- X-Scissor
- Quick Attack / Earthquake

This thing is so powerful that almost nothing in OU can avoid a 2HKO from it; its great Speed stat also contributes by making very difficult to both outspeed and take a hit on the switch. Close Combat, Stone Edge and X-Scissor are standard on Banded sets, so I won't waste time to explain those moves. The last slot is a toss-up between Quick Attack, that can be useful in general to revenge kill faster threats, and Earthquake, that nails a few pokemons that would otherwise pose a problem to Terrakion (however, we're speaking about Golurk and Nidoqueen, which are not common at all, and since being choice locked into Earthquake is not a great idea most of the time I feel Quick Attack is the best choice here). This set is not reliant on weather, requires minimal team support and thus can shine whatever teammates we will choose for it.
 
Just posting to say that, since some of you are unsure, two teams will be made. For reference, its something like

We select Pokemon + set #1 for Team #1
We then select Pokemon + set #1 for Team #2 which counters the Pokemon on Team #1
We then select the next pokemon for Team #1 which counters the first pokemon in team #2

And so on

Note that these teams we make, will NOT be focused on doing well on the ladder. They are two teams, built to counter each other, and I imagine an exhibition match will be held in order to determine the victor (just for bragging rights).
 
Just posting to say that, since some of you are unsure, two teams will be made. For reference, its something like

We select Pokemon + set #1 for Team #1
We then select Pokemon + set #1 for Team #2 which counters the Pokemon on Team #1
We then select the next pokemon for Team #1 which counters the first pokemon in team #2

And so on

Note that these teams we make, will NOT be focused on doing well on the ladder. They are two teams, built to counter each other, and I imagine an exhibition match will be held in order to determine the victor (just for bragging rights).
So, correct me if I'm wrong, we won't split ourselves in two groups, and everyone will contribute to build both teams. Thanks for the clarification.
 
Well, since the thread itself changed focus, I'll change my selection for a different psychic/steel type.
385.gif

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Timid (+Spe / -Atk)
252 HP / 4 Spa / 252 Spe
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Psyshock

Good ol' SubCM Jirachi.
 
Just wondering, would we be allowed to post a UU pokemon since it is legal in OU? I don't think it would be a big deal. I'm just wondering because I don't feel like doing a lot of work on creating a set and explaining it and then it turns out I wasted my time.
 
Supporting ginganinja's Meloetta. I think it's high time we started giving it some thought in the real OU environment.
 
We select Pokemon + set #1 for Team #1
We then select Pokemon + set #1 for Team #2 which counters the Pokemon on Team #1
We then select the next pokemon for Team #1 which counters the first pokemon in team #2

This sound's like Jimera0's flawed thread concept where every counter ends up being so focused on countering the specific Pokémon before it that it loses competitive viability
 
Just wondering, would we be allowed to post a UU pokemon since it is legal in OU? I don't think it would be a big deal. I'm just wondering because I don't feel like doing a lot of work on creating a set and explaining it and then it turns out I wasted my time.
You're allowed to post whatever you want, but if you're afraid of your time being "wasted" just because your idea isn't used, that's a terrible attitude. You're not the only person who would be writing something up just for it to be rejected; only one Pokemon at a time, after all.

Also, I'm thirding (fourthing?) ginganinja's Meloetta. It was near non-existent in the DW metagame which was really disappointing. Not pointing fingers because I never used it myself. I'd really love to see its true potential.
 
You're allowed to post whatever you want, but if you're afraid of your time being "wasted" just because your idea isn't used, that's a terrible attitude. You're not the only person who would be writing something up just for it to be rejected; only one Pokemon at a time, after all.

Oh no, I didn't mean it like that. By wasting my time I meant that my post would get deleted because I didn't use a strictly OU pokemon or something along those lines. I understand that there is a chance my set won't get picked but if there is nothing wrong with me posting a pokemon in a lower tier, yet is viable in OU play, then I shall go along with it. Thank you for answering my question.

EDIT: well, here goes nothing.
Spr_2c_214_s.gif

Heracross@Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
Nature: Adamant (+Attack, -Sp. Attack)
EV's: 252 Attack/252 Speed/4 HP
-Magehorn
-Close Combat
-Stone Edge
-Night Slash/Earthquake

This 'mon has done so much work for me in late game sweeping. Either sacrifice a pokemon or switch into a resisted move, and begin a rampage. Megahorm/CC are the 2 STAB moves to abuse and give pretty good coverage. Ghost , Poison, and Flying types resist both moves. In the third slot is Stone Edge to hit flying types super-effectively and but ghosts and poison pokemon are still left unchecked. In the final spot is where things get tricky. Earthquake is for poison types, Jirachi, and Metagross. Night Slash is for ghosts and Victini. I am sure you will know what to pick based on your team's needs.
 
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