Pokemon RBY In-game Tiers - Mark II

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Ponyta - Mid Tier

Ponyta - Mid Tier
-Availability: Level 32 on Cinnabar Island is a little late in the game, and it's fairly late evolution means it does lag behind a bit. In Yellow it's found on Cycling Road, making it usable against Koga.
-Stats: Rapidash is quick and has a very decent attack stat, making any physical move hurt. In addition, her stats are quite well rounded as well, Rapidash can best be compared to a Fire-type Tauros.
-Movepool: Very poor, as Rapidash only really gets Fire Spin and Ember via level up, and is actually incompatible with Flamethrower. On the physical side it's much better, as she can learn great moves like Hyper Beam and Body Slam allowing her to round out her coverage, but Rapidash really wishes for Dig or Earthquake.
-Power: Good Attack and a decent Special mean Rapidash can pack a punch on both sides of the spectrum. In addition, Rapidash has a high speed, often hitting first, hitting hard and scoring a good amount of critical hits. In addition, Ponyta's starting stats are the best overall
-Type: Being a Fire type means Rapidash gets the short end of the stick defensively, she doesn't resist common moves and doesn't hit much in the late game for super effective damage.
Match-ups:
Erika: You can have Ponyta at this point, but you would have gone quite out of your way to get her just for this battle. Ponyta sweeps outright here, no contest.
Koga: (Yellow Only) It is impossible to fight Koga in RB with Ponyta, as you need Surf to get it without a trade. In Yellow you can find Ponyta on the way, and she sweeps fairly comfortably, as Koga's Pokemon are all Bug types and you will be faster than all of them.
Sabrina: Ponyta is weird here, it's more likely Rapidash at this point though. Stomp pretty much eliminates Kadabra and Alakazam in 1 shot, Fire Spin is great for both Mr Mime and Venomoth as it traps them until Stomp/Take-Down/Body-Slam can OHKO them. In addition, Rapidash can take a couple of hits so it can afford to miss occasionally. Rapidash is one of the few Pokemon that can actually sweep Sabrina comfortably.
Blaine: Blaine is an idiot, and will spam super potions because he doesn't do anything else. Once he runs out, then he starts to attack, but don't worry, there is little he can do. Everything you can't KO with Hyper Beam/Body Slam/Stomp in 1 shot, you can Fire Spin until it is weak enough to be KO'd, although only Arcanine poses any sort of threat. In Yellow, you will now have to watch for Ninetails as well, but she's not a problem as she has very little she can hit you back with.
Giovanni: Rapidash is surprisingly good, despite not being able to learn a move that hits either Rhyhorn or Rhydon supereffectively. Fire Spin is able to trap any Pokemon that won't be KO'd by Fire Blast until they get into the range that it will. Even better, Body Slam will score some great KO's, and Hyper Beam will wreck Dugtrio, Nidoking and Nidoqueen. Just be wary of Dig from Dugtrio, as it will hurt.
Lorelei: The fact that 4 of her Pokemon are Water-type doesn't help Rapidash here. Rapidash's best strategy is to Fire Spin Pokemon into Body Slam range, but it's going to severely drain her PP. Use her for Jynx alone and don't even go near Slowbro.
Bruno: Not a bad match-up here, Onix has a terrible Special so Fire Blast should KO it quickly. The Fighting-types won't like taking Body Slams and Hyper Beams, so distribute those liberally. Overall, Rapidash can sweep quite well.
Agatha: Since Rapidash relies on it's Normal-type coverage to score KO's, and because her PP is limited, this is not a great match-up. You are far better off sticking with something else, preferably something with Psychic or Ground moves.
Lance: Not a bad match-up but not great either. Rapidash can continue to rely on it's Normal-Type attacks, and do some decent damage, just avoid Aerodactyl and Gyarados. In Yellow, watch out for Bubblebeam from Dragoinair too, it packs a punch.
Rival: Rapidash has decent typing here, even Rhydon's poor Special mean's he won't like taking a Fire Blast. The thing to note is that Gary will always have a Water type, and you should make sure you avoid using Rapidash there, unless you are going to try and weaken it with Hyper Beam. In Yellow you will come up against a variety of types, but just watch out for Vaporeon as she packs a punch.
Additional Comments: Like it was mentioned above, Rapidash is basically a poor man's Tauros. They both learn similar moves, have similar stats and both rely on their Normal-type moves for coverage. Rapidash is better used by smarter players, basically it's main strategy is to use Fire Spin to trap opponents until they are in KOing range. Hyper Beam is practically mandatory, while Stomp/Body Slam gives you a higher PP option. Fire Spin is useful far into the endgame and Fire Blast is necessary for a high-powered STAB attack. Overall, Rapidash finds many places to shine and can work wonders for your team, but it has definite trouble in some spots more than others.


Voltorb - Mid Tier

Voltorb - Mid Tier
-Availability: Fairly early, before Lt Surge but most likely afterwards. Voltorb is found much later in Yellow, but you can get a high level Electrode once you get Surf and go to the power plant, compensating for the difference.
-Stats: Enormous speed coupled with a decent Special means Voltorb will be hitting hard and first.
-Movepool: Barren offensive movepool is an understatement. Sonicboom is good for early grinding but loses its usefulness quickly. Requires Thunderbolt from Lt Surge to function throughout the game, and while it has a good Normal-type movepool, it's attack is atrocious making those moves basically useless.
-Power: Does high damage to any Pokemon that isn't Ground, Grass or Electric.
-Type: Being weak only to Ground is great, but doesn't have a lot of resistances and offensively Voltorb is dependent on Normal-type moves to get around Ground and Grass types.
-Match-ups:
Lt Surge: If you insist on using Voltorb against Surge, it's worth noting that it will take 10 Sonicbooms to beat his entire team (3 for Voltorb, 3 for Pikachu, 4 for Raichu). He can win, but it's dependent on move selection and accuracy.
Erika: Electrode hates Grass-types. While he cannot KO them, they can status him in return or just KO outright. Don't use Electrode here.
Koga: Even at a lower level he sweeps with Thunderbolt. Koga is a joke though, and even though Muk and Weezing will take 2 hits, they won't hurt you too bad. You are more likely to faint post-battle due to poison, rather than lose here.
Sabrina: If you let Electrode learn Light Screen then you are a real chance here. Set up on Kadabra and then go for the KO with STAB Thunderbolt. Even though physical moves are an option, only resort to them if Sabrina uses Light Screen. You will out-speed her team, because Electrode is one of the few Pokemon who can, however they pack more of a punch overall, and Alakazam has the potential to wreck you even with Light Screen protection. While not a guaranteed sweep, Electrode is a good choice here.
Blaine: Electrode can spam Thunderbolt to pretty much sweep this gym. None of Blaine's pokemon can do too much damage in retaliation, assuming they aren't OHKO'd. Arcanine is the only Pokemon you may have trouble beating as it will take 3 hits to take him out, but only 2 if he uses Take-Down. In Yellow, Ninetails will be able to handle your attacks quite well due to her high Special and will hit you back hard, so make sure to take advantage of your speed.
Giovanni: Electrode can only hit his Pokemon with Normal-type attacks. Don't use him here unless he's your last Pokemon, it will not end well. On the plus side, he can KO Rhyhorn with Sonicboom, but it takes 9 uses of it and risks getting KO'd himself. In Yellow, Persian is obliterated by Electrode, but don't keep him in against the ground types.
Lorelei: Electrode does great here, especially if you set up. On the first turn use Light Screen to protect yourself from Special attacks. The reason for this is because Dewgong and the like will be bulky enough to take your attacks quite well, and so you want Electrode to have the same level of survivability. With that being said, you should still sweep fairly comfortably as not even Jynx will like taking your attacks.
Bruno: This one is a mixed bag. Electrode is one of the very few Pokemon that Onix is actually a threat to, so obviously get someone to take them out. However, Machamp, Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee will not like taking your electric attacks so there is definite opportunity for Electrode to shine here.
Agatha: Much harder than the others, Gengar and the like may not resist your attacks but their sky-high Special means you won;t be doing much outside of critical hits. It's worth noting that as long as you have the Pokeflute, the best they can do to you is chip away with Night Shade and confuse you with Confuse Ray. It really just comes down to luck here, you could win or lose either way.
Lance: Not an easy fight here, his 3 dragons outright resist your attacks and can whittle you down with Dragon Rage and Slam. It's worth noting that Gyarados is scared shitless of Electrode, as is Aerodactyl, which means with smart switching, Electrode becomes quite viable.
Rival: Mixed bag here. Exeggutor is your worst nightmare here as he resists your attack with his humongous Special and type advantage and responds with anything. Rhydon is definitely a big deal as well, and you don't to mess with Alakazam, Jolteon, Magneton or Venasaur. But on the plus side, if you picked Venasaur as your starter, he will have 3 Pokemon that are taken out by Electric attacks (Pidgeot, Charizard and Gyarados). In Yellow it's much the same deal, the variety of types is essentially the same so use the chart to your advantage.
Additional Comments: Despite being walled to hell and back by every Ground type in the game, Electrode is a great Pokemon and should be considered for every team. It's great utility combined with a great Speed stat, decent special and one of the best offensive types in the game, you have one hell of a Pokemon. It is worth noting that Electrode's poor movepool really lets it down, and it won't be soloing the entire game for you, but there are many Pokemon that just won't be able to take it on in any form. In Yellow, Electrode is completely outclassed by Zapdos, which is essentially found in the same area.

Hitmonlee - High Tier

Hitmonlee - High Tier
-Availability: Right after Lt Surge, if you make a beeline to Celadon to get to Saffron. You get one at level 30, your choice.
-Stats: Decent speed and large attack make Hitmonlee quite dangerous offensively.
-Movepool: His main move, Jump Kick/HJP he learns on his own and will carry him against all neutral opponents, as well as the plethora of normals. Normal moves will round out his coverage, but Hitmonlee will forever be unable to hit Ghosts.
-Power: Decent speed and high power make Hitmonlee a force to be reckoned, he hits everything that doesn't resist him hard.
-Type: He a fighting type, so not so good in that department, but at least he can take out the Rock and Normal types with ease.
-Match-ups:
Erika: Provided you give him a decent Normal-type move, Hitmonlee should do well against Erika. It's not a full sweep though, and he can be wrecked by paralysis.
Koga: Not great here because all of Koga's pokemon resist Fighting-type moves. Hitmonlee can do well after 2 Meditates if you taught it Swift as the first Koffing is fairly easy to set up on. Watch out for Weezing's Self-Destruct. In Yellow, the fight is comparable as the Venonats are easy set-up bait, but watch out for Venemoth's Psybeam.
Sabrina: Sabrina is hard for obvious reasons, type disadvantage is going to hurt here, although if Hitmonlee is around level 44 it can outspeed Kadabra and probably take out Mr Mime and Venomoth, but that's with difficulty. Hitmonlee doesn't stand a chance against Alakazam. Even though Hitmonlee can set up 6 meditates on Sabrina's Abra in Yellow, both Kadabra and Alakazam outspeed and KO anyway.
Blaine: Hitmonlee sweeps with relative ease using only Jump Kick, and OHKOing both Growlithe and Ponyta. While it may take 2 hits to take out Rapidash and Arcanine, if you set up a few meditates on Blaine's joke Pokemon, you will be all right. Hitmonlee is a good choice here as nothing in Blaine's team resists Fighting.
Giovanni: Even though Hitmonlee gets type advantage against Rhyhorn and Rhydon, their high defense mean that Hitmonlee will not be scoring OHKO's unless he is carrying HJK, which is available at level 48. Still, Hitmonlee does well here provided you gave him Double-Edge or Body-Slam. The trick is to Meditate on Rhyhorn to get your attack up a few levels, and then just sweep with your best moves. Use your kick attack (JK or HJK) for Rhyhorn, Rhydon and Dugtrio, and use Body-Slam or Double-Edge on the Nidos, which will ensure the sweep. Persian is also a joke, being a Normal-type with poor defense doesn't help his case.
Lorelei: Hitmonlee performs very admirably here as he has a great type advantage against numerous Pokemon that Lorelei has, including Dewgong, Lapras and Cloyster. In addition, Jynx can only hit you neutrally as she has no Psychic-type attacks. The real problem of this fight is Slowbro who will Amnesia until it's capable of wrecking your entire team. Your best bet is to switch into something faster with Razor Leaf to ensure that he doesn't set up.
Bruno: Despite having a Hitmonlee himself, yours should be better. Use Onix to set up multiple Meditates and proceed to sweep his team with High Jump Kick.
Agatha: Hitmonlee's Elite 4 run was going so well, what happened? Hitmonlee's only disadvantage from Hitmonchan is his inability to hit Ghosts at all. Agatha has 3 ghosts, and 2 poison types and one flying type. This is not a good match-up in any way for you, just pick a Psychic-type to do the work here.
Lance: Lance isn't easy, but he isn't difficult either. Both Dragonairs and Aerodactyl are neutral to Hi Jump Kick, so Hitmonlee does have room for damage. Just beware of Gyarados and Dragonite, who are both bulky and can do some serious damage in response.
Rival: No matter which starter you pick, Hitmonlee will have trouble here in various amounts as your rival will always carry numerous flying types (Charizard, Gyarados, Pidgeot), a poison type (Venasaur) and numerous Psychics (Alakazam, Exeggutor). That being said, Hitmonlee can deal serious damage to any pokemon that doesn't resist Fighting, and you can look no further than Rhydon for that. Hitmonlee does much better in Yellow as there are less Pokemon in Gary's team that resist High Jump Kick, so feel free to go nuts here.
Additional Comments: Hitmonlee is arguably the best Fighting-type in the game. It has great stats, it gets the best Fighting-type move and you get it at level 30, which is around the level your team would be at the time. The biggest problem Hitmonlee faces regularly is the fact that it can't touch Ghosts. Hitmonlee can't hit a Ghost to save his life, and it really lets him down. With that being said, the amount of Normal types and Rock types in the game provide Hitmonlee with many opponents he can take down. Overall he is a great Pokemon and a worthy choice for any team.


Horsea - Mid Tier

Horsea - Mid Tier
-Availability: Mid-game with the Super Rod just below Fuchsia. It only comes at level 15. In Yellow it comes at higher levels at other places, and even as a Seadra, it just means slightly less grinding.
-Stats: Horsea has all-round good stats, and a decent Special and Defense meaning it can take the odd hit or two. Speed is average, so it will not be outspeeding everything, but some things.
-Movepool: Horsea's entire usable movepool consists of Surf, Ice Beam, Blizzard and Hydro Pump. You get Horsea at Fuchsia so Surf is a standard. Ice Beam is important for coverage and is obtainable at Celadon so it's not too far away.
-Power: Horsea is quite strong because it can hit a lot of types with Super Effective moves with its Ice/Water coverage. Once it gets rolling, Horsea can OHKO many different pokemon comfortably.
-Type: Water types have 2 weaknesses, Grass and Electric, neither of which are common. Resisting Fire, Ice and Water is quite useful, especially since many of the end-game trainers have those types on-hand.
-Match-ups:
Erika: It's unlikely you have Horsea at this point, but it's possible. Still, Horsea does not belong in this gym battle, unless it's a decent level and has Ice Beam. Ice Beam sweeps, but Vileplume is bulky enough to take a few and hit back with Petal Dance. Horsea will not like status.
Koga: Sweeps fairly easily, but if you fail to KO a Pokemon, be prepared to be frustrated by Smokescreen/Minimize a little more. May take more than one hit to KO Weezing, depending on your level. Watch out for Self-Destruct.
Sabrina: Seadra can do well here, provided you can outspeed, but it all depends as even with STAB Surf, you fail to OHKO the likes of Kadabra and Mr Mime. In addition, it's almost impossible to beat Alakazam even at a higher level, his Special is too high and Psybeam does too much damage. You could try using moves like Double-Edge and Body Slam for this battle, but it won't necessarily be worth wasting a TM on Seadra for this one battle, especially since her Attack stat isn't spectacular.
Blaine: Surf sweeps Blaine even if you are underleveled. Seadra also won't be taking a lot of damage from anything Blaine can do, so even if you fail to OHKO Arcanine, you can be sure that he won't hit you very hard back. In Yellow, Ninetails may try to give you problems as it can take a couple of Surfs with it's high Special, but it will not be hitting you hard back.
Giovanni: Surf will ensure that Horsea will OHKO every Pokemon on his team, due to their cumulative weaknesses and terrible Special stats.. Also viable moves Seadra can use in this battle to score OHKOs include Hydro Pump, Blizzard, Ice Beam, Bubblebeam and Water Gun. Even though Persian is neutral to Water-type moves, he will still be at Seadra's mercy here.
Lorelei: This is a bad match-up here, because all her Pokemon resist Water and Ice (barring Jynx from the former). You resist it too, but there's nothing of value gained here, save your PP for later.
Bruno: Clean sweep to say the least, Surf should take out pretty much anything on his team. There's not much his Pokemon can respond with in return, even Thunderpunch off Hitmonchan will be pathetic at best.
Agatha: Agatha isn't as easy as she looks. Gengar and Haunter can take a few Surfs to take down and can whittle you away with Confuse Ray and Night Shade. It really comes down to your level versus theirs, but you won't be hitting them efficiently. Golbat is easy enough, going down to Ice Beam, but beware paralysis from Arbok's Glare.
Lance: Water types always do well against Lance, and this is no exception. Surf nails Aerodactyl, while Ice Beam takes out Dragonair and Dragonite. Gyarados is neutral to all of your attacks, and while it is better to let an Electric-type handle it, it just means Seadra will be weakened.
Rival: Your rival will be difficult under any circumstance, certain pokemon can be beaten much easier than others. Rhydon, Charizard and Arcanine fall to Surf, Pidgeot, Venasaur and Exeggutor lose to Ice Beam. And it is likely you will lose out to the likes of Alakazam and Jolteon, while Gyarados and Blastoise will hit you hard with their powerful normal moves. It's worse for Seadra in Yellow as now Gary has an Electric-type Pokemon which Seadra will have trouble getting past.
Additional comments: While Horsea does have some good points, overall you will find yourself wishing you had chosen Staryu instead, as Staryu's superior stats, improved movepool and superior typing make it much easier to use. Being outclassed doesn't mean Horsea isn't great though, as it holds its own quite well throughout the game and you get it around the time you get Surf which is a huge plus. Overall a decent Pokemon, shame she can barely touch other Water types.

Cubone - Bottom Tier

Cubone - Bottom Tier
-Availability: Lavender Town is the earliest and they come at level 22 which isn't too far off your team at the time. In Yellow they also appear in the Safari Zone, but that's a bit out of your way.
-Stats: Cubone is slow. He has a decent Attack and a great Defense stat, but he's always taking hits because he is slow.
-Movepool: Comes with STAB moves unlike other Ground types, and can learn some great moves, but Cubone's Special is poor and can only really obtain Normal moves to take advantage of its stats.
-Power: Cubone/Marowak is very strong coming off it's STAB moves, but it's quite slow so it will always be taking a hit which will wear it down significantly.
-Type: Not a lot of trainers use Electric-type moves, meaning Cubone's immunity is useless. In addition, weakness to Grass and Water is not great. Marowak doesn't get a lot of important resistances though, which is unfortunate.
-Match-ups:
Erika: Erika is a problem for Marowak. It's slow, so it can be hit with a status, locked in a constricting move or taken out swiftly with a Super Effective move. However, if you are lucky and you are appropriately leveled, Marowak should KO one of Erika's Pokemon. Just don't expect a sweep.
Koga: Marowak is strong against poison and has a high defense. In addition, Bone Rush hits all of his Pokemon hard. Koga will often be too busy giving his Pokemon X-Attack as well, so you can be comfortable 2HKOing some of his Pokemon. Also worthy of note, Marowak's defense can help cushion Weezing's Self-destruct. In Yellow, Marowak will sweep nicely as well as Venonat is frail, but beware Venomoth's Psybeam as it will hurt you on the Special side.
Sabrina: Marowak is not great here. His low Speed combined with his low Special means he will be hit first and hard, even at level 50. He will KO Kadabra in 1 shot, but he will be hit first. Venomoth will use Stun Spore to slow you down and hit you with Psybeam. Mr Mime can take a hit, but can't do much to you back with Doubleslap. Alakazam can usually take a hit from you and hit you hard back, and since he outspeeds you even with a large level gap, this means he is very likely to KO you regardless.
Blaine: Marowak does well here, as STAB Dig/Earthquake/Bone Rush will OHKO all of Blaine's pokemon. All he will do in response is spam Super Potions and use Normal-type moves, which Marowak can take with ease due to his high defense.
Giovanni: Marowak is a solid performer here, especially if he has Earthquake. His high defense and STAB Earthquakes mean Marowak will be able to take a hit from every Pokemon on his team and strike back hard. He also gets type advantage against Nidoking and Nidoqueen as a bonus.
Lorelei: Unfortunately every Pokemon in Lorlei's team will have a type advantage over Marowak, and many of them will be faster. This is a bad match-up for Marowack.
Bruno: The opposite of Lorelei, Bruno will be hitting you exclusively with Physical attacks and his pokemon will more likely be slower. Marowak will be dealing some serious damage here, this is a great match-up.
Agatha: This match-up is very much mixed. On one hand, all of her Pokemon are poison types, but on the other, they are all faster than you and will status you to high hell and back. This match basically comes down to luck.
Lance: He has 3 Pokemon that are immune to Ground attacks, and many of those Pokemon will be hitting you hard with moves like Hydro Pump and Slam. You don't have it easy here. In Yellow this battle is much harder as his Dragons will now carry the likes of Ice Beam and Bubblebeam.
Rival: There are definitely better match-ups for Marowak, but there are some pros and cons. There will always be a Fire type and he will always have Rhydon, so you have an advantage there, but aside from that you do not want to try to sweep with this match-up. The addition of an Electric-type (and the subsequent removal of Pidgeot) gives Marowak better standing in Yellow, but not by much.
Additional Comments: Sandslash, Dugtrio, Nidoking, Nidoqueen, Rhydon, Golem. Those are all the Ground types that outclass Cubone. Many of them come earlier as well, which means that in many playthroughs Marowak will be overlooked. That being said, there are a number of benefits to Cubone, one such being that he learns high base power Ground moves and works with good TM support to round out his coverage. His middling Speed and weaknesses to Grass and Water let him down. Essentially, while he has his uses, Cubone is situational at best and he is best left to be the best of the Bottom Tier.

All done, anything that I've missed?
 
Those entries are well written but they are missing information from Yellow for the availability and match-up sections.

Ponyta is catchable on Cycling Road in Yellow. To be honest it isn't THAT much earlier, although it does mean you don't have to beat Koga and get Surf to obtain it. Speaking of Koga, you're missing info on its match-up for Ponyta.

Voltorb comes significantly later in Yellow, since Magnemite takes its spot in the grass patch outside Rock Tunnel. It is only catchable in the Power Plant.

Horsea can be caught at a higher level in Yellow, and you can actually catch it as a Seadra at level 35!

To be honest I think putting Voltorb in High is strange if we leave Magnemite in Mid. They don't seem to be that different and they have identical problems. Either Magnemite should go to High or Voltorb should go to Mid, unless I'm overlooking something important that proves that they are significantly different.
 
Those entries are well written but they are missing information from Yellow for the availability and match-up sections.

Ponyta is catchable on Cycling Road in Yellow. To be honest it isn't THAT much earlier, although it does mean you don't have to beat Koga and get Surf to obtain it. Speaking of Koga, you're missing info on its match-up for Ponyta.

Voltorb comes significantly later in Yellow, since Magnemite takes its spot in the grass patch outside Rock Tunnel. It is only catchable in the Power Plant.

Horsea can be caught at a higher level in Yellow, and you can actually catch it as a Seadra at level 35!

To be honest I think putting Voltorb in High is strange if we leave Magnemite in Mid. They don't seem to be that different and they have identical problems. Either Magnemite should go to High or Voltorb should go to Mid, unless I'm overlooking something important that proves that they are significantly different.

Ponyta in RB is only available after getting Surf (Pokemon mansion). Therefore to get to it, you must beat Koga, but I will amend the entries to consider Yellow's changes though.

I considered the rankings for a long time, and quite frankly I found it hard to put Voltorb in Mid. He just performed against everything that wasn't a Grass/Ground type. Despite his flaws, he's really quite good. I'm not sure about Magnemite, and why it would be different. Maybe it's because Magnemite is slower, and Voltorb is strong enough to score OHKOs without taking damage anyway, but I'm not sure. I've always found Magnemite's speed to be a real hindrance, but I'd like to hear the thoughts of others on this.

Horsea's additional availability doesn't help it at all, Staryu/Starmie still outclasses it with almost identical distribution. I will amend the records to reflect it though.

EDIT: Edited to include differences from Yellow for when I believe the change is important. Anything else guys?
 
Ponyta in RB is only available after getting Surf (Pokemon mansion). Therefore to get to it, you must beat Koga, but I will amend the entries to consider Yellow's changes though.

Yeah that was what I was trying to say: that in RB you need to be Koga to be able to use Surf to travel to Cinnabar Island, which means you have to go through a little bit more to get it. I wasn't trying to say that it affects to tier listing.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that any of the availability stuff I posted changes their rankings, but it should still be included for the benefit of Yellow players.

I considered the rankings for a long time, and quite frankly I found it hard to put Voltorb in Mid. He just performed against everything that wasn't a Grass/Ground type. Despite his flaws, he's really quite good. I'm not sure about Magnemite, and why it would be different. Maybe it's because Magnemite is slower, and Voltorb is strong enough to score OHKOs without taking damage anyway, but I'm not sure. I've always found Magnemite's speed to be a real hindrance, but I'd like to hear the thoughts of others on this.

Well the thing is that Magnemite and Magneton aren't even that slow. 70 Speed is ok considering you'll be at a higher level than most things. I guess Magneton did get outsped occasionally when I used it in my recent playthrough, but it was very situational. If Electrode can get all of the kills that Magneton can, then I would take that to mean that Electrode is "better" (it would be a pokemon with the same killing potential as Magneton but that isn't outsped by anything). In that case the only advantage of using Magnemite over Voltorb would be that Magnemite can actually get away with not using Thunderbolt, because it gets Thundershock and Thunder later on as (inferior) alternatives. Voltorb has no electric moves by level up so if Thunderbolt isn't available then you are forced to use horribly weak Normal attacks until you get to the Thunder TM, making it effectively useless until then. Of course, I would still give Magneton Thunderbolt!

Also, I'd rather use Voltorb in RB and Magnemite in Yellow simply because of availability. One is better than the other depending on version in my opinion.

I still don't see much difference between them to give them different tiers though, so one of them should be changed.

Which one though? I guess that's the problem with doing this as a community (EDIT: note that I'm not trying to say this shouldn't be done as a community, because I think it should be). Even if we agree on the attributes and the flaws of a pokemon (which we seem to here), what is considered "high tier material" or "low tier material" or "whatever tier material" is so subjective. The fact that I thought RB Bulbasaur was High when almost everyone else said Top (despite agreeing with others about what was good about it and what was wrong with it) is an example of this. So, like Bulbasaur, I guess it'll come down to what the majority of people want. I honestly don't mind bumping Magnemite up since it was pretty good, though I consider the Thunderbolt TM requirement and the inability to get around a significant group of pokemon quickly and completely unscathed to be significant flaws.
 
Don't worry Atsync, I agree this is a community project, and I'm open to opinions on the tier placings of what I've put above, but those were what I felt their places were by the end of the game.

I encourage discussion on this. Topic of the day: "Where do Electrode/Magneton go? High or Mid?"
 
I'd say (RB) Voltorb and (Y) Magnemite are best in Mid Tier. Keep in mind that the types that resist Electric aren't too common by the time you get them. (Although Grass and Ground are Gym types, they are rarely seen outside of said Gyms.) Also remember the common Bird Keepers and Swimmers later on. However, one could argue that their base forms' mediocre stats and dependancy on Thunderbolt (even though the same could be said about almost every Electric-type in the game) limit their potential, so I'm fine with it being High or Mid, but I'd prefer Mid.
Keep in mind that if these two are High, Jolteon could be argued for Top, as it has Magneton's high Special and Electrode's great crit rate (thanks to blinding Speed), not to mention that it can evolve right away as opposed to waiting until level 30.

On a different note, Horsea can also be found in Seafoam Islands in Red, meaning you only have to use a Super Rod to get it in Blue.

Having used a Ponyta in my most recent playthrough of Yellow, I can solidly say it's Low Tier, albeit one of the better Lows. While it does get better once it learns Fire Spin and evolves one level later, it's awful before that. I vividly remember a level 36 Ponyta failing to 2HKO a level 25 Weezing with Ember. And of course when it does learn Fire Spin and evolve, it won't really get to use it very much because by then, you should be halfway through Silph Co. Something interesting about Ponyta is that it can learn Horn Drill even before it evolves, making its performance against bosses notably better thanks to the OHKO move + X Accuracy strategy (except for (Gym Leader) Giovanni and Agatha, for obvious reasons. Also still has trouble against Lance, and Koga can still pose a threat thanks to all of his Pokemon knowing Psychic as well as the threat of getting paralyzed).

I really don't think Hitmonlee is High Tier, as while it's good against things that don't resist Fighting, the things that do are quite numerous. It also has pathetic Special, hindering its chances against pretty much every Gym Leader/Elite Four member that uses special attacks (Erika, Blaine, and Lance are examples of such). Its defense isn't too much better, so if it fails to OHKO an enemy, chances are it's going to take a noticable chunk of damage.
 
I'd say (RB) Voltorb and (Y) Magnemite are best in Mid Tier. Keep in mind that the types that resist Electric aren't too common by the time you get them. (Although Grass and Ground are Gym types, they are rarely seen outside of said Gyms.) Also remember the common Bird Keepers and Swimmers later on. However, one could argue that their base forms' mediocre stats and dependancy on Thunderbolt (even though the same could be said about almost every Electric-type in the game) limit their potential, so I'm fine with it being High or Mid, but I'd prefer Mid.
Keep in mind that if these two are High, Jolteon could be argued for Top, as it has Magneton's high Special and Electrode's great crit rate (thanks to blinding Speed), not to mention that it can evolve right away as opposed to waiting until level 30.

On a different note, Horsea can also be found in Seafoam Islands in Red, meaning you only have to use a Super Rod to get it in Blue.

Having used a Ponyta in my most recent playthrough of Yellow, I can solidly say it's Low Tier, albeit one of the better Lows. While it does get better once it learns Fire Spin and evolves one level later, it's awful before that. I vividly remember a level 36 Ponyta failing to 2HKO a level 25 Weezing with Ember. And of course when it does learn Fire Spin and evolve, it won't really get to use it very much because by then, you should be halfway through Silph Co. Something interesting about Ponyta is that it can learn Horn Drill even before it evolves, making its performance against bosses notably better thanks to the OHKO move + X Accuracy strategy (except for (Gym Leader) Giovanni and Agatha, for obvious reasons. Also still has trouble against Lance, and Koga can still pose a threat thanks to all of his Pokemon knowing Psychic as well as the threat of getting paralyzed).

I really don't think Hitmonlee is High Tier, as while it's good against things that don't resist Fighting, the things that do are quite numerous. It also has pathetic Special, hindering its chances against pretty much every Gym Leader/Elite Four member that uses special attacks (Erika, Blaine, and Lance are examples of such). Its defense isn't too much better, so if it fails to OHKO an enemy, chances are it's going to take a noticable chunk of damage.

Hitmonlee is High tier because it's a wrecking ball. Yes, Fighting isn't a great offensive type in this game but it doesn't have to be because Normal-type moves are a great compliment to it. Give Hitmonlee a normal-type move like Body Slam or Double-Edge, or even Swift, and watch it go to work. Poison types don't trouble it because there is practically nothing they can do in return, even if they survive. Hitmonlee has great stats and runs at a decent speed level meaning it won't be taking too many hits. Yes it has a low Special, but even if it was a high one it wouldn't want to take Psychic attacks anyway.
Hitmonlee comes at a great time in the game, catches up nicely with many of the side trainers and is a great compliment to the team. It comes with a boosting move in Meditate, and it gets the best Fighting-type move in the game. It's the best Fighting-type in the game, bar none. Machamp may have a slight amount of attack more, but he doesn't get as many good attacks and his low speed really lets him down, problems Hitmonlee doesn't have to face at all.

Ponyta is definitely mid. If you go out of your way to get it by beating Koga, and then go back for Erika, Ponyta levels quite nicely over the gym. In addition, Ponyta's variety in normal-type moves is quite handy, allowing it to learn such gems as Hyper Beam and Body Slam. Fire Spin/Hyper Beam/Body Slam/Stomp is great because it allows you to trap with Fire Spin, cause Flinches with Stomp, cause Paralysis with Body Slam and KO with Hyper Beam. This pretty much means Ponyta will not be hit very much if at all.
The reason why she is mid is because she comes too late, and you have to go out of your way to get her up to speed (and need to get Hyper Beam at the GC). But she isn't bottom or low because she has quite a bit of decent use, in addition to being relatively easy to obtain. Ponyta really surprised me, I mean on paper she looks flawed, but it works well enough to get you through the game in some areas. In addition, her stats are superior to Charizard's which says something, although Charizard ranks higher for obvious reasons. So I still think Ponyta is mid.

Voltorb I still want to hear more opinions about. The reason he isn't Top is because he can't get around Ground types at all. Here's what I want to know though, does Jolteon have the ability to take out Ground types? If she doesn't then she can't rank Top because even if she's generally better than Magneton and Electrode, they may be all encountering the same problems. If Jolteon can't get around those Ground types, then she can't really be Top unfortunately. I know her stats are better, and her availability is different, but the differences between her fellow Electric-types are too minimal as they all essentially function in similar fashions. I'd like to discuss this further.
 
I think you are taking the difference in availability a bit for granted. Jolteon starts off powerful immediately. You evolve Eevee and give it Thunderbolt straight away, and Jolteon is set to go. No grinding required. Magnemite and Voltorb start off underleveled and unevolved, and require more work to get them going. The fact that Magnemite and Voltorb come earlier (depending on version) isn't even that important because they don't do anything particularly noteworthy straight off the bat. Note that Rock Tunnel is FULL of Ground and Grass types, so you aren't really going to be in desperate need of STAB Thunderbolt at that point.

It's a significant difference. In regards to all of the electrics, Zapdos in Top, Jolteon in High, and Magnemite, Voltorb and Pikachu (both versions) in Mid makes the most sense to me.
 
Garud- Hitmonlee might be the best pure fighting-type in the game, but I'm not sure he's better than poliwrath. Poliwrath is certainly better for things like the Elite Four.
 
I'm new to this thread, but after a small amount of Control-F work on the front page Mankey and Vulpix seem to have been forgotten about - am I missing something or do they require testing?
 
I'm testing Mankey in my Red Version, and once I finish, I'll write an entry for it (as well as ones for Jigglypuff, Scyther, and Staryu. I'll also do a revamp of the Weedle entry, which is pretty bare at the moment). On the other hand, Vulpix has not been tested by anybody in this thread (or else there'd already be an entry for it).
 
In my view Squirtle is far and away the strongest starter. The point has already been made that Squirtle is the most consistent of the starters - and despite not having any specific area where it truly excels (say in the way Ivysaur does against Misty) it is incredibly reliable with the least investment. It is this dependability which allows it to be the basis of pretty much any team you want to construct. Venusaur and Charizard come with a bunch of annoying weaknesses compared to the two that Blastoise has to deal with, and require costly TMs (Body Slam, Swords Dance for Venusaur; Dig/Earthquake, Swords Dance for Charizard) to provide the offensive clout that warrants the burden they place on the rest of your team - meanwhile Blastoise's excellent Water/Normal Coverage requires no investment. Want a team that can use Fly, a Water type and Charizard on the same team? Zapdos or Dragonite are your only choices to avoid hitting a 3x weakness to electric. It seems petty - but when we are discussing the minutiae of efficiency, surely that incorporates the restrictions that choosing a specific Pokemon has on your team building process.

tl;dr Blastoise is useful with almost no stand-out drawbacks; a useful battler all the way to the end game that enables full freedom of team selection through its lack of weakness and it's lack of TM requirement: Surf/Strength/Filler/Filler is all you need. And if you have Ice Beam or Blizzard spare (and you should have at least one) you have an easy win against Lance.
 
In my view Squirtle is far and away the strongest starter. The point has already been made that Squirtle is the most consistent of the starters - and despite not having any specific area where it truly excels (say in the way Ivysaur does against Misty) it is incredibly reliable with the least investment. It is this dependability which allows it to be the basis of pretty much any team you want to construct. Venusaur and Charizard come with a bunch of annoying weaknesses compared to the two that Blastoise has to deal with, and require costly TMs (Body Slam, Swords Dance for Venusaur; Dig/Earthquake, Swords Dance for Charizard) to provide the offensive clout that warrants the burden they place on the rest of your team - meanwhile Blastoise's excellent Water/Normal Coverage requires no investment. Want a team that can use Fly, a Water type and Charizard on the same team? Zapdos or Dragonite are your only choices to avoid hitting a 3x weakness to electric. It seems petty - but when we are discussing the minutiae of efficiency, surely that incorporates the restrictions that choosing a specific Pokemon has on your team building process.

tl;dr Blastoise is useful with almost no stand-out drawbacks; a useful battler all the way to the end game that enables full freedom of team selection through its lack of weakness and it's lack of TM requirement: Surf/Strength/Filler/Filler is all you need. And if you have Ice Beam or Blizzard spare (and you should have at least one) you have an easy win against Lance.

In my opinion the thing that makes squirtle the best is that if you invest in him early he is much more efficient than the other two. If you give him the bubblebeam, mega punch and dig TMs as soon as possible, he has great coverage hits with more power than you're supposed to at that point in the game. It also means you can evolve him straight away, because there's no level up moves he needs to wait for.

Has anyone done krabby? I might do a krabby analysis if no one else has done it.
 
I am going to do a runthrough with Vulpix so will hopefully have an analysis ready in a few days. Flamethrower is kinda a rarity in Gen 1, so Vulpix getting it at level 35 seems pretty great, but looking through it's movepool I wish it got hypnosis like it does in later gens.
 
Want a team that can use Fly, a Water type and Charizard on the same team? Zapdos or Dragonite are your only choices to avoid hitting a 3x weakness to electric.

If I remember correctly, only LT. Surges Raichu has Thunderbolt in RB. So Electrics are not much of a threat.
 
Yup, one of MANY deciding factor in RBY tiering is IMO the TERRIBLE movepool that in game enemies boasts(this is surprisingly.... left out by some inputs of some pokemon)

I mean, try solo-ing Lance Dragonite with a fresh Gastly with one TM restrictions. If you cant, you dont deserve to say your a decent player(this post really offensive, but.... seriously its terrible)

As for the Venusaur need SD, i kinda disagree. Venusaur does really well with only Cut given on it. That means Venusaur is efficient, but it literally cant do much better anyway. Charizard become great with Dig. Blastoise is Godlike with TM inclusions. Venusaur is almost stable with or without elusive TM supports(Body Slam and Beam is good....)
 
team weakness isn't a very big issue in rby because virtually most of the enemy pokemon you face will have extremely shitty coverage: even E4 members are either using tackle to fill out their moveset, or completely foregoing the 4th move at all. rarely you will ever see anything using something that isn't STAB/normal. A team of Pidgeot/Omastar/Charizard is very viable for endgame imo, only electric moves are Hitmonchan's Thunderpunch (god wtf you shouldn't even be fearing this with 35 spc), Yellow Lance's Dragonair/Dragonite with thunder/bolt, and the rival's electric-type in yellow. There are virtually no electric moves at all in RB (if you're actually scared of ThunderPunch you may as well quit this game rofl)

@dre89: i'm not sure if dumping 3 tms onto squirtle makes him better than bulba/charmander. charmander easily becomes beastly too with mega punch being a reliable physical move for a very long while, and dig turns whoever that has it into a pretty good offensive powerhouse early on.

the only thing i'm even questioning is that what is squirtle going to do with dig. he's already destroying rock and fire types and eventually gets a very reliable stab in surf. i mean, yes surge is afterwards, but you'd be insane to use wartortle for surge. so i guess he gets to uh... smack koffings? lol, just use water gun or something. dig is a godly tm, that's for sure, but you're not making the best use out of it by dumping it onto squirtle...
 
I think Squritle's worst match up is Lorelei, since they resist Water and Ice and also her Pokemon have good physical defense to take Body Slam/Earthquake.
 
@dre89: i'm not sure if dumping 3 tms onto squirtle makes him better than bulba/charmander. charmander easily becomes beastly too with mega punch being a reliable physical move for a very long while, and dig turns whoever that has it into a pretty good offensive powerhouse early on.

the only thing i'm even questioning is that what is squirtle going to do with dig. he's already destroying rock and fire types and eventually gets a very reliable stab in surf. i mean, yes surge is afterwards, but you'd be insane to use wartortle for surge. so i guess he gets to uh... smack koffings? lol, just use water gun or something. dig is a godly tm, that's for sure, but you're not making the best use out of it by dumping it onto squirtle...

In RB wartortle only has to be a couple of levels higher than Surge's pokemon to outspeed them and OHKO them with dig.

Considering how easy the game is, tiering should really be about efficiency. In non-glitch playthroughs, the most efficient way to play the game is to solo it with squirtle, which is why you give it dig. As well as nailing electrics, dig is a stronger, more accurate physical attack than mega punch which you can save for bigger battles when you can't afford to miss seeing as it has less PP

Charmander is the least efficient early game and has to wait awhile to get good STAB. Squirtle with bubblebeam mega punch dig plows through everything and isn't sacrificing anything by evoliving immediately.
 
Magnemite doesn't have any Electric moves, and Pikachu only has ThunderShock. So outside of Raichu's Thunderbolt, Wartortle can enter LT. Surge just fine.

That being said, I'd rather BubbleBeam Magnemite and Pikachu. I'd let something else have Dig.
 
In RB wartortle only has to be a couple of levels higher than Surge's pokemon to outspeed them and OHKO them with dig.

Considering how easy the game is, tiering should really be about efficiency. In non-glitch playthroughs, the most efficient way to play the game is to solo it with squirtle, which is why you give it dig. As well as nailing electrics, dig is a stronger, more accurate physical attack than mega punch which you can save for bigger battles when you can't afford to miss seeing as it has less PP

Charmander is the least efficient early game and has to wait awhile to get good STAB. Squirtle with bubblebeam mega punch dig plows through everything and isn't sacrificing anything by evoliving immediately.

nidoking is a much more efficient solo

i don't see how we should tier based on -insert derp here- soloing the game. in that case, anything that is after misty should be auto bottom or something, exceptions being maybe diglett.

charmander doesn't sacrifice anything by evolving immediately too. if you're soloing, you should be at a higher level than starmie anyway so you can destroy it with dig...
 
In RB wartortle only has to be a couple of levels higher than Surge's pokemon to outspeed them and OHKO them with dig.

Considering how easy the game is, tiering should really be about efficiency. In non-glitch playthroughs, the most efficient way to play the game is to solo it with squirtle, which is why you give it dig. As well as nailing electrics, dig is a stronger, more accurate physical attack than mega punch which you can save for bigger battles when you can't afford to miss seeing as it has less PP

Charmander is the least efficient early game and has to wait awhile to get good STAB. Squirtle with bubblebeam mega punch dig plows through everything and isn't sacrificing anything by evoliving immediately.

As I have said a hundred times before, doing what you propose completely kills discussion. I intentionally placed arbitrary extra rules such as "must use an actual team" on the list just so there's more that matters than just "does this Pokemon come before Misty?". If you're looking for the fastest way to beat the game, consult SDA's speedrun threads.

@Garud, thanks for writing up!

Ponyta: I agree it looks poor in theory. I can see Mid for it, though I really hate to recommend something like "trapping with Fire Spin to get into KO range" since it takes forever and Fire Spin's accuracy is shitty. You have an awkward sentence ending here though:

-Type: Being a Fire type means Rapidash gets the short end of the stick, and

and

In Yellow, you will now have to watch for Ninetails as well, but she's not a problem as she has low

Does it really outspeed and KO Alakazam? What level?

Voltorb: High tier seems pretty wow, especially considering Magnemite in Mid (as others have said). But I think if we look at this objectively, it should be about the same height as Sandshrew: it only takes one TM to really get going.

Hitmonlee: I don't know about High here. From what I read, it is fairly mediocre vs Eirika, bad vs Koga and Sabrina, good vs Blaine, okay vs Gio, good vs Lorelei and Bruno, bad vs Agatha, okay vs Lance, bad vs Gary. That seems more like a Mid tier to me?

Horsea: Mid tier is okay I guess but kinda worried here too...Water types always have a decent endgame (Blaine/Gio/Elite Four) but this thing is so underleveled.

Cubone: Low and Bottom are the same tier now, and to be honest I'm kind of baffled you listed him that low. Ground is an amazing type and not needing Dig to use it is quite good. Why not mention that it has type advantage over all of Pokemon Tower, and quite a few of Team Rocket's Pokemon of choice? Being slow sucks, but it's not a death sentence. Yes, he's outclassed by other Grounds, but with the asterisk that they have to use the Dig TM, and as I said in the OP being outclassed by guys of the same type is not something I hold in high regard. Judge Cubone on its own merits.

@Carl, your Doduo write-up looks good!

@thunderstone, I remember discussing Mankey but don't remember an entry. As said it'll be there soon enough!
 
Sorry to cause an argument, I really like this thread, but I feel I need to address this-

As I have said a hundred times before, doing what you propose completely kills discussion. I intentionally placed arbitrary extra rules such as "must use an actual team" on the list just so there's more that matters than just "does this Pokemon come before Misty?". If you're looking for the fastest way to beat the game, consult SDA's speedrun threads.

But that's still just efficiency. You can win any battle with any pokemon with sufficient levelling. How good a pokemon is really just based on how many levels it needs to be raised to win battles. That's why alakazam is better than weedle, because weedle needs to have a much more significant level advantage than alakazam does to win battles.

I also don't see how speed isn't important. What makes alakazam better than weedle is that he can get you through the game much faster. If speed isn't an issue then you might as well say that every pokemon is equal because they can all get you through the game eventually.


That's why I think a tier list is really only relevant for things like nuzlockes that place restrictions on how much you can train (eg. pokecentre limit). But even then, that's still just a measure of what pokemon can win battles with a limited amount of training.
 
Voltorb: High tier seems pretty wow, especially considering Magnemite in Mid (as others have said). But I think if we look at this objectively, it should be about the same height as Sandshrew: it only takes one TM to really get going.

I guess this will be a game of "let's educate the noob" because I haven't used either Sandshrew or Voltorb. But surely Voltorb needs Thunderbolt way more than Sandshrew needs Dig? Sandshrew learns Slash at level 17 and has an Attack somewhere between Charmeleon and Charizard. It evolves at level 22, giving at a Slash that is more powerful than Charizard's (and Charmeleon evolves much later than Sandshrew does anyway). I don't know, it seems like that would suffice for a while until you reach Earthquake (which I think you can get BEFORE Erika) and it is very unlikely that Dig AND Earthquake would be unavailable to it if you use it on your team. In other words, Sandshrew seems like it would still be a good pokemon even if Dig wasn't available to it.

If Thunderbolt isn't available to Voltorb then it seems like it would be the worst electric type in the game (it is the only one without an electric move of any sort in its level up movepool so it'll be using Tackle and Sonicboom to deal damage for a while), and it would be quite bad until you got to Thunder (and Thunder isn't as good a back-up to Thunderbolt as Earthquake is to Dig).

Or am I missing something obvious?
 
But that's still just efficiency. You can win any battle with any pokemon with sufficient levelling. How good a pokemon is really just based on how many levels it needs to be raised to win battles. That's why alakazam is better than weedle, because weedle needs to have a much more significant level advantage than alakazam does to win battles.

I also don't see how speed isn't important. What makes alakazam better than weedle is that he can get you through the game much faster. If speed isn't an issue then you might as well say that every pokemon is equal because they can all get you through the game eventually.

That's why I think a tier list is really only relevant for things like nuzlockes that place restrictions on how much you can train (eg. pokecentre limit). But even then, that's still just a measure of what pokemon can win battles with a limited amount of training.

Right, let's just go back to your original post. you are dumping bubblebeam, mega punch and dig onto squirtle just to own the game efficiently with him. the point is, charmander can also do the same, the only difference is that he doesn't get BubbleBeam (why do you need both bubblebeam and dig on wartortle is beyond me anyway considering water and ground have pretty similar coverage, both hit 2 types supereffectively while ground beats electric and poison too and water beats ground. electric is rare after surge and poison types are weak anyway). I don't see why you have to dump 3 TMs onto squirtle, 2 of which are the only copies you have in-game.

High Tier iinw is defined as something that can hold itself with consuming minimal resources. dumping 3 tms onto squirtle is definitely not minimal, especially when dig turns a bunch of meh-ish pokemon into decent ones (sandshrew, anyone?)
 
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