Not sure how to print the screen and then make that into an image like Wobble, but as of now I am 80th on ladder, 1622 rating and 15-3 record. I'll post how my team works and how i used lairon/simipour in the morning
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Research Group #5 - Lairon, Simipour, Fraxure
- Thread starter DTC
- Start date
May do this, since I haven't played NU for ages. Will be trying all of them and comment latter with results. Alt: GoHomeAndDie
Edit:
Sadly, I suck in every aspect of Pokemon, and only one Poke that I found worth using was Fraxure. Fraxure is actually pretty fast after DD and is rarely OHKOed so it can find a lot of opportunities to set up. I've been using it along with Specs Shadow Tag Ghottihelle and Klang,in one team. This core is doing really well but Simipour and Lairon are actually doing nothing in every battle. From, like, 6 battles I'm yet to activate Simipours Berry(even though I run Gluttony). Curse Lairon is okay, but he can't handle an lot of todays meta. That is all for now...
Edit:
Sadly, I suck in every aspect of Pokemon, and only one Poke that I found worth using was Fraxure. Fraxure is actually pretty fast after DD and is rarely OHKOed so it can find a lot of opportunities to set up. I've been using it along with Specs Shadow Tag Ghottihelle and Klang,in one team. This core is doing really well but Simipour and Lairon are actually doing nothing in every battle. From, like, 6 battles I'm yet to activate Simipours Berry(even though I run Gluttony). Curse Lairon is okay, but he can't handle an lot of todays meta. That is all for now...
While I haven't been doing this research group, I've been using simipour recently and this was the set I was using.
Simipour @salac berry
Trait: Gluttony
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid
-Substitute
-Surf/Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Nasty Plot
Basic plan is set up against something like alomo, or come in after a kill on emboar's FB or something and sweep. Spam substitute if you know they have a scarfer that can take simi down and then if you're lucky, you've got a +2 +1 simipour on your hands which will pretty much demolish everything. Water and Ice coverage is pretty good in NU as there aren't many defensive water types that can break through your sub. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is lapras, who is rare.
Simipour @salac berry
Trait: Gluttony
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid
-Substitute
-Surf/Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Nasty Plot
Basic plan is set up against something like alomo, or come in after a kill on emboar's FB or something and sweep. Spam substitute if you know they have a scarfer that can take simi down and then if you're lucky, you've got a +2 +1 simipour on your hands which will pretty much demolish everything. Water and Ice coverage is pretty good in NU as there aren't many defensive water types that can break through your sub. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is lapras, who is rare.
Ok, after trying simipour and lairon a bit, I havnt been particulary impressed by either of them.
Buffallo Soldier (Simipour) @ Petaya Berry
Trait: Gluttony
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Simipour so far seems like a lesser samurott or gorebyss (as was pointed out by ebeast.) Although it's high speed is it's greatest asset, there are plenty of faster things in NU that are common and can revenge kill (cinccino, zebstrika, electabuzz, almost any scarfer...) There is also the problem that simipour is pretty weak and very frail. Even at 50% hp, when he gets his berry, he is easily handled by priority and faster things. The set above has great coverage, but his attacks are pretty weak, even after the petaya boost, so he hasnt gotten many kills yet. And as was already brought up by ebeast as well, by the time your berry activates, you will already be in revenge kill range. All these factors are what have ended up bringing me against simipour.
http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/305.gif
No More Wrinkles! (Lairon) @ Eviolite
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Spd / 252 HP
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Head Smash
- Superpower
- Iron Head
Okay, so far lairon has been mediocre at best. Although it can deliver powerful blows with rock head, as well as set up SR, lairon has a bit of trouble at the job i've been wanting him to do, being a tank. He can take hits pretty well, and most importantly he walls cinccino, and he can hit hard. However, base 90 attack just isnt enough to be a truely effective tank imo, even with STAB recoilless head smash. Even worse is that dispite his tremendous bulk, he has absolutely no recovery to help himself. But he has been more successful for me than simipour. On a high note, lairon might work as a good partner with gothitelle, as he can take hits aimed at goth with ease, as well as lairon being a magnet for fighting type attacks. Goth can even take water/ground hits too, provided you have some kind of investment.
Those are my thoughts on simipour and lairon for now. Havnt gotten around to abusing the almighty fraxure yet because i wanted to try something new. I'll get around to fraxure at some point, might pair it up with lairon as well, because dragon/steel core, wynaut?
Buffallo Soldier (Simipour) @ Petaya Berry
Trait: Gluttony
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Simipour so far seems like a lesser samurott or gorebyss (as was pointed out by ebeast.) Although it's high speed is it's greatest asset, there are plenty of faster things in NU that are common and can revenge kill (cinccino, zebstrika, electabuzz, almost any scarfer...) There is also the problem that simipour is pretty weak and very frail. Even at 50% hp, when he gets his berry, he is easily handled by priority and faster things. The set above has great coverage, but his attacks are pretty weak, even after the petaya boost, so he hasnt gotten many kills yet. And as was already brought up by ebeast as well, by the time your berry activates, you will already be in revenge kill range. All these factors are what have ended up bringing me against simipour.
http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/305.gif
No More Wrinkles! (Lairon) @ Eviolite
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Spd / 252 HP
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Head Smash
- Superpower
- Iron Head
Okay, so far lairon has been mediocre at best. Although it can deliver powerful blows with rock head, as well as set up SR, lairon has a bit of trouble at the job i've been wanting him to do, being a tank. He can take hits pretty well, and most importantly he walls cinccino, and he can hit hard. However, base 90 attack just isnt enough to be a truely effective tank imo, even with STAB recoilless head smash. Even worse is that dispite his tremendous bulk, he has absolutely no recovery to help himself. But he has been more successful for me than simipour. On a high note, lairon might work as a good partner with gothitelle, as he can take hits aimed at goth with ease, as well as lairon being a magnet for fighting type attacks. Goth can even take water/ground hits too, provided you have some kind of investment.
Those are my thoughts on simipour and lairon for now. Havnt gotten around to abusing the almighty fraxure yet because i wanted to try something new. I'll get around to fraxure at some point, might pair it up with lairon as well, because dragon/steel core, wynaut?
After 20 games played with the lot of them, I am 13-7, though several of those wins are undeserved due to hax etc.
Fraxure (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Low Kick
- Outrage
It's a fairly standard Fraxure set that I also use on my main team, and it's undoubtedly strong, but is surprisingly frail even with Eviolite. And his offense can be slightly disappointing when unboosted. Maybe I'm just not playing it right most of the time, or perhaps an item or moveset change is in order to bring out its full potential.
What I really do notice is that it's very difficult to set up without having a free turn; it has trouble switching in on basically a lot of things, and all but the weakest neutral and even sometimes resisted attacks break his subs, or do enough damage that it becomes ridiculously easy to revenge kill.
Still, it is very powerful when allowed to shine, but like I already said, this set might not bring out its full potential as often as one might like. I will be testing some different sets in my next 20 games.
Simipour (M) @ Petaya Berry
Trait: Gluttony
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Taunt
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
Simipour is at the same time impressive and disappointing. With the Modest nature, it actually has more speed and SpA than Timid special Samurott. The pinch berry can take people by surprise sometimes, but the question is whether that's more effective with Gluttony than a Life Orb or even Expert Belt would be with Torrent. In comparison with Samurott, it also has significantly weaker bulk.
Playing it exactly the way I play my usual special Samurott might not be the best way to use it; but the difference isn't very big, and they each have some advantages over one another, but I find that Samurott's greater bulk, especially on the physical side, allows it to switch in on things easier, which makes it more useful for me throughout the battle.
In conclusion, this set does not seem like the best way to utilize Simipour's talents optimally. And again, I'll be trying some different sets for my next 20 games.
Lairon (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Superpower
- Head Smash
So here we have a Lairon that's designed to be sort of a physically bulky pivot that can hit back hard. But I'm not going to mince words here. This set sucks ass at this job more often than not. The double weaknesses to Fighting and Ground are absolutely crippling for this, making it way worse at taking the hits that matter than for example Regirock, who also has a choice of item and possible recovery in Drain Punch.
The fact that Lairon can hit slightly harder isn't much of an advantage in this role when it critically fails in other aspects of it. It does one thing beautifully, and that's entering on Cinccino and taking ridiculously low damage and either KOing it or forcing it out. But as long as other strong physical attackers with Fighting- or Ground-type moves, like Zangoose, Absol, Golurk, Gurdurr, Sawk, and many others are around, this is fairly unimportant.
I wouldn't recommend this set or role for Lairon ever, unless you're desperate for something that can counter Cinccino (and probably Swellow, but I haven't played against one so that's just in theory) but fails horribly against other Normal-type attackers. I am obviously going to give it a different set to try and bring out its talents for the next 20 battles.
Fraxure (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Low Kick
- Outrage
It's a fairly standard Fraxure set that I also use on my main team, and it's undoubtedly strong, but is surprisingly frail even with Eviolite. And his offense can be slightly disappointing when unboosted. Maybe I'm just not playing it right most of the time, or perhaps an item or moveset change is in order to bring out its full potential.
What I really do notice is that it's very difficult to set up without having a free turn; it has trouble switching in on basically a lot of things, and all but the weakest neutral and even sometimes resisted attacks break his subs, or do enough damage that it becomes ridiculously easy to revenge kill.
Still, it is very powerful when allowed to shine, but like I already said, this set might not bring out its full potential as often as one might like. I will be testing some different sets in my next 20 games.
Simipour (M) @ Petaya Berry
Trait: Gluttony
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Taunt
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
Simipour is at the same time impressive and disappointing. With the Modest nature, it actually has more speed and SpA than Timid special Samurott. The pinch berry can take people by surprise sometimes, but the question is whether that's more effective with Gluttony than a Life Orb or even Expert Belt would be with Torrent. In comparison with Samurott, it also has significantly weaker bulk.
Playing it exactly the way I play my usual special Samurott might not be the best way to use it; but the difference isn't very big, and they each have some advantages over one another, but I find that Samurott's greater bulk, especially on the physical side, allows it to switch in on things easier, which makes it more useful for me throughout the battle.
In conclusion, this set does not seem like the best way to utilize Simipour's talents optimally. And again, I'll be trying some different sets for my next 20 games.
Lairon (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Superpower
- Head Smash
So here we have a Lairon that's designed to be sort of a physically bulky pivot that can hit back hard. But I'm not going to mince words here. This set sucks ass at this job more often than not. The double weaknesses to Fighting and Ground are absolutely crippling for this, making it way worse at taking the hits that matter than for example Regirock, who also has a choice of item and possible recovery in Drain Punch.
The fact that Lairon can hit slightly harder isn't much of an advantage in this role when it critically fails in other aspects of it. It does one thing beautifully, and that's entering on Cinccino and taking ridiculously low damage and either KOing it or forcing it out. But as long as other strong physical attackers with Fighting- or Ground-type moves, like Zangoose, Absol, Golurk, Gurdurr, Sawk, and many others are around, this is fairly unimportant.
I wouldn't recommend this set or role for Lairon ever, unless you're desperate for something that can counter Cinccino (and probably Swellow, but I haven't played against one so that's just in theory) but fails horribly against other Normal-type attackers. I am obviously going to give it a different set to try and bring out its talents for the next 20 battles.
I'm noticing a severe lack of boosting Lairons. I really think you guys should try Hone Claws out, it's really not too bad. I've noticed that Life Orb isn't even really necessary as +1 Head Smash does a lot of damage with full Attack investment, so you can stay bulky with Eviolite. Yeah, Fighting and Ground attacks will still OHKO you, but that's why you pair it with a Ghost that can float.
I think boosting lairon seems mediocre, but since i havnt actually tested it, I cant really bash it too much. However, i think it might be a bit slow for the role, as well as it needs a bunch of support to function properly. However, the sheer power of HC head smash makes it pretty badass if you can get it to work. The only sort of boosting lairon i HAVE tried is rock polish, which was pretty underwhelming because it was still pretty slow and weak. But I suppose with a ton of resistances and solid defenses, it can tank hits well, I'm just sceptical about his ability to set up repeatedly. I still think his best uses are as a tank or wall that can lure in fighting types for the likes of gothitelle.
Alright here we go.
Lairon @ Eviolite
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Def / 248 HP / 8 Spd
Impish Nature
- Head Smash
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Earthquake
Role: Physical Wall/Psuedo-Tank
What it does: This Lairon takes up the team slot of a sort of Golem-esque SR setting wall with physical presence, however in practice it's not nearly as adequate in this capacity. While it's statistically bulky, it's much worse typing makes several other SR setters including Golem beat it one on one with an EQ while it can do generally nothing back. It's a really terrible turn 1 stealth rocker unless you anticipate a Cincinno lead, so often you will be denied rocks until mid-game when you can find something for Lairon to wall, which unfortunately isn't much despite its stats.
What it's good at: On the bright side, Lairon is steel. And while it's criticism may come in the fact like Metang, it has a tendency to do nothing other than set up SR and be Steel....being steel in and of itself is an advantage. It obviously walls the hell out of Swellow and Cincinno. However pretty much every other physical threat in the tier beats it with some sort of coverage move. CB Braviary OHKOs it clean with Superpower. CB Emboar 2HKOs it while Lairon can do nothing back due to neutral Head Smash which is only a 2-3HKO. It can wall AcroBlim as well but you need to be careful of WoW, as that will pretty much cripple Lairon. Which is another point, without any recovery Lairon is horrible weak to status, especially burn which completely neutralizes it's offensive capabilities. Keep it status free and you can deal with any Altaria variant and quite a bit of frail special aweepers like Electrode and Electabuzz.
What it's bad at : Beating other SR setters. It gets destroyed by Golem as it's EQ makes babies cry with how pathetic it is....doing 30 percent to standard Golem while Golem 2HKOs with his. This pretty much goes for every other SR setter in the tier bar Miltank who Lairon can actually cleanly get up rocks on, unfortunately this means Miltank is also getting rocks up on you which is the main problem with using Lairon....he's truly one of the worst SR leads in the tier. Taunt wrecks Lairon and makes it setup fodder, especially if you are using Superpower over EQ as it's pretty dependent on Roar to avoid being set up on. Honestly it's ability to get up SRs is so inert that the ideal wall set probably should eschew Stealth Rocks entirely and run something like Toxic so it can beat walls. Unless your style affords being able to wait a bit to get up Rocks.
Bottom line: In short, Lairon is majorly lacking in versatility, and while it can probably be adequate if properly supported it really doesn't stand out in any way that would make me jump from my seat to make sure it was in the perfect spot to succeed. If you really hate Probopass and Bastiodon for their lesser offensive presence, Lairon may be a better option. Keep in mind you won't be able to take nearly the special beating that both of those mons standard sets can take. I'd give Physically Defensive Lairon a C-.
After laddering up the benchmark of 1600, I'll retire Lairon and may try something similar to ChaoticaMortica, maybe even alleviate the ridiculous Head Smash misses that plagued several of my games.
Lairon @ Eviolite
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Def / 248 HP / 8 Spd
Impish Nature
- Head Smash
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Earthquake
Role: Physical Wall/Psuedo-Tank
What it does: This Lairon takes up the team slot of a sort of Golem-esque SR setting wall with physical presence, however in practice it's not nearly as adequate in this capacity. While it's statistically bulky, it's much worse typing makes several other SR setters including Golem beat it one on one with an EQ while it can do generally nothing back. It's a really terrible turn 1 stealth rocker unless you anticipate a Cincinno lead, so often you will be denied rocks until mid-game when you can find something for Lairon to wall, which unfortunately isn't much despite its stats.
What it's good at: On the bright side, Lairon is steel. And while it's criticism may come in the fact like Metang, it has a tendency to do nothing other than set up SR and be Steel....being steel in and of itself is an advantage. It obviously walls the hell out of Swellow and Cincinno. However pretty much every other physical threat in the tier beats it with some sort of coverage move. CB Braviary OHKOs it clean with Superpower. CB Emboar 2HKOs it while Lairon can do nothing back due to neutral Head Smash which is only a 2-3HKO. It can wall AcroBlim as well but you need to be careful of WoW, as that will pretty much cripple Lairon. Which is another point, without any recovery Lairon is horrible weak to status, especially burn which completely neutralizes it's offensive capabilities. Keep it status free and you can deal with any Altaria variant and quite a bit of frail special aweepers like Electrode and Electabuzz.
What it's bad at : Beating other SR setters. It gets destroyed by Golem as it's EQ makes babies cry with how pathetic it is....doing 30 percent to standard Golem while Golem 2HKOs with his. This pretty much goes for every other SR setter in the tier bar Miltank who Lairon can actually cleanly get up rocks on, unfortunately this means Miltank is also getting rocks up on you which is the main problem with using Lairon....he's truly one of the worst SR leads in the tier. Taunt wrecks Lairon and makes it setup fodder, especially if you are using Superpower over EQ as it's pretty dependent on Roar to avoid being set up on. Honestly it's ability to get up SRs is so inert that the ideal wall set probably should eschew Stealth Rocks entirely and run something like Toxic so it can beat walls. Unless your style affords being able to wait a bit to get up Rocks.
Bottom line: In short, Lairon is majorly lacking in versatility, and while it can probably be adequate if properly supported it really doesn't stand out in any way that would make me jump from my seat to make sure it was in the perfect spot to succeed. If you really hate Probopass and Bastiodon for their lesser offensive presence, Lairon may be a better option. Keep in mind you won't be able to take nearly the special beating that both of those mons standard sets can take. I'd give Physically Defensive Lairon a C-.
After laddering up the benchmark of 1600, I'll retire Lairon and may try something similar to ChaoticaMortica, maybe even alleviate the ridiculous Head Smash misses that plagued several of my games.
Wobble said:ChaoticaMortica
For fuck's sake my name is spelled for you already.
F2H, Rock Polish is always a bad idea on Lairon, as the extra Speed will never allow it to outpace major offensive threats. At least with Hone Claws you become somewhat menacing as an attacker. Lairon's Speed really does screw it over pretty often though.
In the support department Probopass is probably better, which is why I haven't bothered with trying to make a Stealth Rock set work.
Well Probo can run either an Air Balloon or a Lefties.
The Air Balloon set is essentially critical if you are using it as a lead, as well as access to Volt Switch.
Not to mention unlike Lairon it can take hits on the special side. So yeah, Support Lairon tests highly mediocre for me.
Perhaps a bulky attacker set could work.
The Air Balloon set is essentially critical if you are using it as a lead, as well as access to Volt Switch.
Not to mention unlike Lairon it can take hits on the special side. So yeah, Support Lairon tests highly mediocre for me.
Perhaps a bulky attacker set could work.
ChaoticaMortis said:I'm noticing a severe lack of boosting Lairons.
I actually used Curse Lairon for a time, before BW2 was out/ being prepared for. It was pretty cool then, but it doesn't work as well now that Nu has pretty much been established. Hone Claws does seem pretty interesting though, because Head Smash is awesome. But that speed is just gross without defensive investment </3
Nonetheless, I still think Curse is the cooler way to go.
Curse lairon seems pretty cool, but again, it suffers the same problems as HC, except that it will miss head smash as well. True, it can set up, but then it's still 2hkoed by about any ground/fighting attack, and is easily outsped by everything. Having no recovery also does it no justice. Although i don't really plan on using a boosting lairon anytime soon, it is certainly an option that can be taken, but it will always be entirely outclassed in my eyes at anything other than an eviolite tank (which still takes heavy competition from other stuff)
20 more battles done with the sets below. Went 9-11 this time, but I think most of that is because I took the opportunity to try some new things on the other 3 team members and that didn't always work out either. Anyway.
Fraxure (F) @ Salac Berry
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Endure
- Dragon Dance
- Reversal
- Outrage
So I'm pretty sure other people already posted and tried a set like this, but it's clear it's the best possible way of executing this gimmick. Because that's exactly what it is; a gimmick. As with most gimmicky things, it's fairly hit or miss; There are lots of ways to stop it that good players will know of and execute, but against a player that doesn't realize how to fight it, or a team which lacks the tools to or has had those tools eliminated, it is obviously unstoppable. However, I don't think it will gain enough opportunities to execute its gimmick to be good for serious play.
Simipour (M) @ Salac Berry
Trait: Gluttony
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Ice Beam
- Surf
Again, I'm pretty sure other people have used sets like this, because it's likely the best way to execute such a set. The one difference I believe I have is the Modest nature. With max speed EVs, it is still enough to outpace Timid Rotom-S, which indirectly means that with the Salac berry activated, it is enough to outspeed Timid Scarf Rotom-S and any slower scarfer.
Out of the sets tested this time, this is by far the best one, as it's viable in the most situations and comparatively easy to set up. Simipour still has issues, however. Even with Modest, the power is low if he can't find a chance to set up Nasty Plot. And the fact that he's only able to carry two damaging moves is disappointing, though his sparse movepool doesn't leave too many other options; Grass Knot, Focus Blast, and Hidden Power is all he has. Regardless of what attacking moves he uses, something will wall him hard. With water/ice coverage, like I used, any bulky water is a full stop unless he's able to boost to like +6, and even then it might be questionable.
All in all, it's a good set, but again I can't shake the feeling something might outclass him. Gluttony isn't a huge advantage for the SubSalac strategy, as Simipour is frail enough that he can't take a solid hit once he's in Salac range anyway. And his lack of bulk leaves no room for error in predictions when you want to switch him in. Surely there has to be something that can do a similar Sub-Berry-Boost set with better bulk and better coverage in two attacks.
Lairon (F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- Iron Head
- Head Smash
With Rock Head Smash (patent pending), Lairon can do a whole ton of damage. So why not put a Choice Band on it and make it do even more damage? Why not indeed. Head Smash is extremely threatening and pretty much the only move you need on a set like this, especially once resists are eliminated. Unfortunately, Lairon's typing, speed, and defenses without Eviolite doesn't afford it too many chances to switch in; even if it can come in on something it easily shrugs off, it often has to take another hit first before it can bring its devastating Head Smash to bear. And even then, it has an annoying tendency to miss at the worst possible times. In conclusion, all I can say is that there are definitely better users of Choice items, but Lairon could still work for a team that needs exactly what it can provide.
Fraxure (F) @ Salac Berry
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Endure
- Dragon Dance
- Reversal
- Outrage
So I'm pretty sure other people already posted and tried a set like this, but it's clear it's the best possible way of executing this gimmick. Because that's exactly what it is; a gimmick. As with most gimmicky things, it's fairly hit or miss; There are lots of ways to stop it that good players will know of and execute, but against a player that doesn't realize how to fight it, or a team which lacks the tools to or has had those tools eliminated, it is obviously unstoppable. However, I don't think it will gain enough opportunities to execute its gimmick to be good for serious play.
Simipour (M) @ Salac Berry
Trait: Gluttony
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Ice Beam
- Surf
Again, I'm pretty sure other people have used sets like this, because it's likely the best way to execute such a set. The one difference I believe I have is the Modest nature. With max speed EVs, it is still enough to outpace Timid Rotom-S, which indirectly means that with the Salac berry activated, it is enough to outspeed Timid Scarf Rotom-S and any slower scarfer.
Out of the sets tested this time, this is by far the best one, as it's viable in the most situations and comparatively easy to set up. Simipour still has issues, however. Even with Modest, the power is low if he can't find a chance to set up Nasty Plot. And the fact that he's only able to carry two damaging moves is disappointing, though his sparse movepool doesn't leave too many other options; Grass Knot, Focus Blast, and Hidden Power is all he has. Regardless of what attacking moves he uses, something will wall him hard. With water/ice coverage, like I used, any bulky water is a full stop unless he's able to boost to like +6, and even then it might be questionable.
All in all, it's a good set, but again I can't shake the feeling something might outclass him. Gluttony isn't a huge advantage for the SubSalac strategy, as Simipour is frail enough that he can't take a solid hit once he's in Salac range anyway. And his lack of bulk leaves no room for error in predictions when you want to switch him in. Surely there has to be something that can do a similar Sub-Berry-Boost set with better bulk and better coverage in two attacks.
Lairon (F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- Iron Head
- Head Smash
With Rock Head Smash (patent pending), Lairon can do a whole ton of damage. So why not put a Choice Band on it and make it do even more damage? Why not indeed. Head Smash is extremely threatening and pretty much the only move you need on a set like this, especially once resists are eliminated. Unfortunately, Lairon's typing, speed, and defenses without Eviolite doesn't afford it too many chances to switch in; even if it can come in on something it easily shrugs off, it often has to take another hit first before it can bring its devastating Head Smash to bear. And even then, it has an annoying tendency to miss at the worst possible times. In conclusion, all I can say is that there are definitely better users of Choice items, but Lairon could still work for a team that needs exactly what it can provide.
I went 18-3 (2 losses were due to random disconnects that prevented me from accessing battle)
I just stopped when I hit 1600 because I start school tomorrow and honestly both Simipour and Fraxure aren't really worth using, imo. The set I used for Simipour was Salac NP, while I used both Keiraxure and DD + Taunt on Fraxure. Both suffered from the same flaw that makes Gorebyss pretty mediocre; hard to set up, and easily revenged if managed to get a boost. Simipour relies on being at 50% or less when abusing a berry, while Fraxure is still frail even with Eviolite. If they take basically any damage while setting up, they are easily susceptible to revenge killing from priority. Even so Fraxure can possibly shine with the right support, but I can't say I feel the same way about Simipour.
While I'm writing this I'd like to recommend a few Pokemon for a future RG: Mawile and Golduck. Mawile has a good Steel-type and Intimidate that it can make great use of. With the tutors it gained access to Stealth Rock to separate itself from Klang, while having Seismic Toss to make up for lack of power. Not to mention that Mawile still has access to a recovery move in Pain Split, that works well with it's small amount of HP. As for Goluck, it has decent speed and bulk as well as access to Calm Mind. With Cloud Nine it can really crap on most of the Sun abusers while being capable of setting up on Gorebyss or Seismitoad in the Rain. If it really needs to it can revenge kill a rampaging a Ludicolo in the Rain with it's base 95 Special Attack and Life Orb.
I've been testing Simipour out for three good days, and I've played 90 battles, with a 78-12 win/loss ratio. Since I have three days left to test, I will post this as a half-way "progress report" today, and on Wendesday.
This is the set that I am running. I will make it clear that I have not thoruoghly tested Salac (or any other set, but I will get around to it in the next 3 days) yet, and any mentions of it in my post is purely theorymon.
Simipour @ Petaya Berry
Trait: Gluttony
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
At first glance, this set looks very linear. Sub up, until you can get down to 50%, where you can get a Special Attack boost, and sweep. Most of the time, I get away with this just fine; I can do this either early- or late- game. Early-game, I would take out an integral component of the opponent's team, and then switch out. It's very useful to give up that boost, because you can pick off weakened mons with ease late-game. That's my course of action early in the match. Late-game, I would sweep, as very little can take it's boosted attacks. Probopass, Amoonguss, most Absols, Haunter, and Golurks can't stay in without getting OHKO'd at +1).
I would like to address one commmon complaint with the above strategy, that has been pointed out by many other Research Week contributors in previous posts. They say that Simipour is too frail to function effectively, and that it's will be killed before it can sweep. However, one man's trash is another man's treasure. Through what I've seen of Simipour, it is actually just bulky enough to come in on resisted or weak attacks, to get it into Gluttony range. This being said, if Simipour was bulkier, it would not be able to switch into weak attacks to get the Petaya boost. Let's pull up some calcs to show what I mean.
So, what does this mean for Simipour? It's better to analyze that one-on-one.
Of course, it can't handle Zangoose, Swellow, Cinncino, Rapidash, and more, but that's not the facts that I dwell on. First, I usually get rid of those threats before I send in Simipour. Second, the thing that I most admire about Simipour is how little team support it needs. I use a team of Zangoose / Golurk / Gothitelle / Amoonguss / Garbodor and Simipour, and if Simipour dies while trying to sweep, it's not a huge issue. My team doesn't need crazy support like some gimmick teams do. I don't even run a spinner, and it still performs well.
Overall, I think that most people simply toss the idea of Pinch berry Simipour because it is too frail, but you would be surprised.
Edit.
Hide
I need to address one main flaw of my testing before I start; and that is that most of the people I have faced were ladder scrubs. I probably faced about 10 decently skilled players, and I probably lost against half of them. I hope that, after reading this, some more well-known players would play me, just to help me out :). Look me up as Cirno Bangz.
This is the set that I am running. I will make it clear that I have not thoruoghly tested Salac (or any other set, but I will get around to it in the next 3 days) yet, and any mentions of it in my post is purely theorymon.
Simipour @ Petaya Berry
Trait: Gluttony
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
At first glance, this set looks very linear. Sub up, until you can get down to 50%, where you can get a Special Attack boost, and sweep. Most of the time, I get away with this just fine; I can do this either early- or late- game. Early-game, I would take out an integral component of the opponent's team, and then switch out. It's very useful to give up that boost, because you can pick off weakened mons with ease late-game. That's my course of action early in the match. Late-game, I would sweep, as very little can take it's boosted attacks. Probopass, Amoonguss, most Absols, Haunter, and Golurks can't stay in without getting OHKO'd at +1).
I would like to address one commmon complaint with the above strategy, that has been pointed out by many other Research Week contributors in previous posts. They say that Simipour is too frail to function effectively, and that it's will be killed before it can sweep. However, one man's trash is another man's treasure. Through what I've seen of Simipour, it is actually just bulky enough to come in on resisted or weak attacks, to get it into Gluttony range. This being said, if Simipour was bulkier, it would not be able to switch into weak attacks to get the Petaya boost. Let's pull up some calcs to show what I mean.
Hide
Samurott, 252 Atk Adamant + LO: Waterfall: 39.04 - 45.89% Megahorn: 77.39 - 91.43% Aqua Jet: 19.52 - 23.28%
Kadabra, 252 Timid + LO: Psychic: 90.41 - 106.84% Shadow Ball: 53.42 - 63.01% HP Fighting: 46.91 - 55.47%: Psyshock: 80.13 - 94.52%
Kadabra, 252 Timid: Psychic: 69.86 - 82.19% Shadow Ball: 41.09 - 48.63% HP Fighting: 36.3 - 42.8% Psyshock: 61.64 - 72.94%
Haunter, 252 SpA, Timid: Shadow Ball: 59.93 - 70.89% HP Fighting: 34.93 - 41.43%
Haunter, 252 SpA, Timid + LO: Shadow Ball: 78.08 - 91.78% Sludge Bomb: 87.32 - 103.08% HP Ground: 45.54 - 53.76%
This assumes that there is no SR on the field. Since most SR setters are mauled by my Specs Gothitelle, it's not much of a problem for me. I double checked these, but if I'm wrong about these calcs, tell me!
Kadabra, 252 Timid + LO: Psychic: 90.41 - 106.84% Shadow Ball: 53.42 - 63.01% HP Fighting: 46.91 - 55.47%: Psyshock: 80.13 - 94.52%
Kadabra, 252 Timid: Psychic: 69.86 - 82.19% Shadow Ball: 41.09 - 48.63% HP Fighting: 36.3 - 42.8% Psyshock: 61.64 - 72.94%
Haunter, 252 SpA, Timid: Shadow Ball: 59.93 - 70.89% HP Fighting: 34.93 - 41.43%
Haunter, 252 SpA, Timid + LO: Shadow Ball: 78.08 - 91.78% Sludge Bomb: 87.32 - 103.08% HP Ground: 45.54 - 53.76%
This assumes that there is no SR on the field. Since most SR setters are mauled by my Specs Gothitelle, it's not much of a problem for me. I double checked these, but if I'm wrong about these calcs, tell me!
So, what does this mean for Simipour? It's better to analyze that one-on-one.
- Samurott can't KO Simipour with Aqua Jet at 25%. That means that one of the most common priority users in the tier can't KO Simipour, let alone break its Subs. Furthermore, it can't even KO with Waterfall at 50%, meaning that it can switch in with SR, and it will get the boost and OHKO Samurott. It does get wrecked by Megahorn, though, making Simipour a good check to Samurott.
- If Simipour comes in when Haunter Subs, Simipour will almost always win and get the the Special Attack boost. Of course, it either needs to come after a teammate has fainted, or you need to predict the switch into Haunter as it Subs in order to win, so Simipour can handle Haunter somewhat effectively.
- Kadabra is in a similar place as Haunter, except that it can't switch in effectively. Focus Sash variants can't KO with Psychic, so once you know that it is Sashed, you can revenge with the Petaya boost. Of course, LO does more damage, so you would need low damage rolls to barely survive and OHKO back. It is a shaky check at best, but at least it isn't totally helpless.
Of course, it can't handle Zangoose, Swellow, Cinncino, Rapidash, and more, but that's not the facts that I dwell on. First, I usually get rid of those threats before I send in Simipour. Second, the thing that I most admire about Simipour is how little team support it needs. I use a team of Zangoose / Golurk / Gothitelle / Amoonguss / Garbodor and Simipour, and if Simipour dies while trying to sweep, it's not a huge issue. My team doesn't need crazy support like some gimmick teams do. I don't even run a spinner, and it still performs well.
Overall, I think that most people simply toss the idea of Pinch berry Simipour because it is too frail, but you would be surprised.
Edit.
Double post!!!!
Anyway I've just been using what I guess is the "standard" Fraxure set, and so far its been pretty cool.
Fraxure @ Eviolite
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Low Kick
Its got ok bulk with Eviolite, enough to let it tank most hits and set up a DD, even without investment, and after that it outspeeds basically the whole unboosted metagame. If it gets to +2 its outspeeding pretty much every Scarf Pokemon as well, and its not actually that hard to get those boosts in. The best thing about Fraxure is being able to set up on both Alomomola and Amoonguss, Alomomola especially. If it can get in on a Wish or Protect, Fraxure throws up a Sub to avoid Toxic, while Scald does something pathetic like 10% damage. Dragon Dancing from there is simple and nets you a boost or two before (if you are playing a competent player) they switch to something that forces you to attack. Outrage is obvious STAB, while Low Kick gives it all the coverage it needs, breaking Probopass, Bastiodon and Lairon easily.
The main problem I've found with Fraxure is Outrage. Once you set up you can probably KO 2-3 Pokemon, but afterwards any utility Fraxure has is pretty much down to luck because of the confusion. It also likely took a lot of damage in setting up, so it can't really switch out and come back in to set up again. Furthermore, most good players will send in a Pokemon that basically forces you to use Outrage, something you can't risk setting up on like Cinccino, Zangoose etc. At this point they should still have a Steel-type left, and can go to those while Fraxure just uses Outrage doing basically nothing. It also really really struggles to set up in these sort of matches against good players, as they generally won't be leaving Alomomola in against it or anything. It is certainly still a threat though, and one mistake can lead to huge holes being put in a team.
OK, the team I was using. I've been using an offensive core of Ludicolo and Samurott, as posted by CrashinBoomBang here. It is incredibly potent and breaks down so many teams so easily its almost laughable. On top of that I've been using Zangoose to help break down special walls like Lickilicky, Piloswine to set up SR + check Flying-types, Scarf Haunter as a revenge killer that gives me much needed Fighting and Normal immunities, and was then left with basically a filler slot where I put in Fraxure. I'm pretty sure this team could function well with almost any Pokemon in the final slot, thats how good Zangoose + Ludicolo + Samurott is. Fraxure certainly pulled its weight, but I don't feel the majority of the teams sucess was down to it. A lot of games I would find myself saving it just to tank an attack and KO back against something like Skuntank or Absol, while the rest of the team did the majority of the work. The games where it really did shine though, were against Alomomoonguss cores, and setting up on either of those would often mean one half of the core dies, which made the rest of the game so much easier for Samurott and Ludicolo.
So yeah in conclusion its certainly a good mon and pulls its weight on any team wanting a dangerous, bulky set up sweeper with good resists, but can struggle against more offensive teams and competent players. Also, Keiran stole that set from me, the fckr. I'll probably try out a SD / Endure / Outrage / Low Kick @ Salac set, but I can really see problems with priority and status reducing the times it can set up on stuff like Alomomola.
Anyway I've just been using what I guess is the "standard" Fraxure set, and so far its been pretty cool.
Fraxure @ Eviolite
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Low Kick
Its got ok bulk with Eviolite, enough to let it tank most hits and set up a DD, even without investment, and after that it outspeeds basically the whole unboosted metagame. If it gets to +2 its outspeeding pretty much every Scarf Pokemon as well, and its not actually that hard to get those boosts in. The best thing about Fraxure is being able to set up on both Alomomola and Amoonguss, Alomomola especially. If it can get in on a Wish or Protect, Fraxure throws up a Sub to avoid Toxic, while Scald does something pathetic like 10% damage. Dragon Dancing from there is simple and nets you a boost or two before (if you are playing a competent player) they switch to something that forces you to attack. Outrage is obvious STAB, while Low Kick gives it all the coverage it needs, breaking Probopass, Bastiodon and Lairon easily.
The main problem I've found with Fraxure is Outrage. Once you set up you can probably KO 2-3 Pokemon, but afterwards any utility Fraxure has is pretty much down to luck because of the confusion. It also likely took a lot of damage in setting up, so it can't really switch out and come back in to set up again. Furthermore, most good players will send in a Pokemon that basically forces you to use Outrage, something you can't risk setting up on like Cinccino, Zangoose etc. At this point they should still have a Steel-type left, and can go to those while Fraxure just uses Outrage doing basically nothing. It also really really struggles to set up in these sort of matches against good players, as they generally won't be leaving Alomomola in against it or anything. It is certainly still a threat though, and one mistake can lead to huge holes being put in a team.
OK, the team I was using. I've been using an offensive core of Ludicolo and Samurott, as posted by CrashinBoomBang here. It is incredibly potent and breaks down so many teams so easily its almost laughable. On top of that I've been using Zangoose to help break down special walls like Lickilicky, Piloswine to set up SR + check Flying-types, Scarf Haunter as a revenge killer that gives me much needed Fighting and Normal immunities, and was then left with basically a filler slot where I put in Fraxure. I'm pretty sure this team could function well with almost any Pokemon in the final slot, thats how good Zangoose + Ludicolo + Samurott is. Fraxure certainly pulled its weight, but I don't feel the majority of the teams sucess was down to it. A lot of games I would find myself saving it just to tank an attack and KO back against something like Skuntank or Absol, while the rest of the team did the majority of the work. The games where it really did shine though, were against Alomomoonguss cores, and setting up on either of those would often mean one half of the core dies, which made the rest of the game so much easier for Samurott and Ludicolo.
So yeah in conclusion its certainly a good mon and pulls its weight on any team wanting a dangerous, bulky set up sweeper with good resists, but can struggle against more offensive teams and competent players. Also, Keiran stole that set from me, the fckr. I'll probably try out a SD / Endure / Outrage / Low Kick @ Salac set, but I can really see problems with priority and status reducing the times it can set up on stuff like Alomomola.
So I broke 1600 which wasn’t exactly hard.
With the experience from the 20 games I’ve played I’ve found Lairon to be.. pretty good actually. It’s task isn’t rocket science, set up Stealth Rock and spam Head Smash. I didn’t really expect much from Lairon and I didn’t really get that much but it has still been a pretty enjoyable experience. A STAB 150 base power move comming from a fully acceptable 90 Attack stat will hurt things. I got a lot of surprise kills on people that assumed it was piss weak and thought they could set up or just leave things in. In my opinion Lairon could be considered as a more offensive Bastiodon with less Special Defense. It’s not baad, just nothing special.
Also:
Fraxure (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage / Dragon Claw
- Taunt
- Low Kick
Just posting the set I used for Fraxure in my rmt. Low Kick is almost always better than Superpower and Taunt is really good for shutting down walls and avoiding status. Max Attack, 200 speed will outspeed Jolly Cinccino after one DD and the rest are dumped into HP for that extra bulk. This is imo the best Fraxure set there is. Also, Dragon Claw is viable on Fraxure. If you think you can boost at least two times then the lack of power won't be huge, and not getting locked in and confused afterwards is really nice.
E: Nevermind me, just run max speed on Fraxure. :)
Sorry I haven't been very focused on this Research Group I've had school and stuff.
With the experience from the 20 games I’ve played I’ve found Lairon to be.. pretty good actually. It’s task isn’t rocket science, set up Stealth Rock and spam Head Smash. I didn’t really expect much from Lairon and I didn’t really get that much but it has still been a pretty enjoyable experience. A STAB 150 base power move comming from a fully acceptable 90 Attack stat will hurt things. I got a lot of surprise kills on people that assumed it was piss weak and thought they could set up or just leave things in. In my opinion Lairon could be considered as a more offensive Bastiodon with less Special Defense. It’s not baad, just nothing special.
Also:
Fraxure (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage / Dragon Claw
- Taunt
- Low Kick
Just posting the set I used for Fraxure in my rmt. Low Kick is almost always better than Superpower and Taunt is really good for shutting down walls and avoiding status. Max Attack, 200 speed will outspeed Jolly Cinccino after one DD and the rest are dumped into HP for that extra bulk. This is imo the best Fraxure set there is. Also, Dragon Claw is viable on Fraxure. If you think you can boost at least two times then the lack of power won't be huge, and not getting locked in and confused afterwards is really nice.
E: Nevermind me, just run max speed on Fraxure. :)
Sorry I haven't been very focused on this Research Group I've had school and stuff.
passed 1900 in about 24 hours
i'll keep this short and sweet since nobody likes to read this stuff
Fraxure is probably one of the best set-up sweepers in the tier right now. With Taunt, it can set up on one of the most common Physical walls—Alomomola—if it runs Waterfall. After a boost, only the bulkiest of Pokemon can stop its rampage thanks to its flawless coverage. Its typing allows it to set up on a lot of attacks; many sweepers in the tier such as Special Eelektross and Heatmor do not try to cover Dragon-types since they are fairly uncommon. I lack of Ice Shard users also makes revenge-killing Fraxure very difficult. It survives the most powerful priority attack in the tier—Absol's Sucker Punch—with plenty of health to spare.
As Django stated, Fraxure's biggest flaw is having to lock itself into Outrage. The opponent can deal with Fraxure by luring it into using Outrage and switching in a Steel-type or simply stalling it out with Protect. After Fraxure becomes confused, it is much harder to sweep with it. It also lacks a way to recover health, which makes it hard for it to stay alive against offensive teams.
The sweeping partner I used with Fraxure was Gurdurr, which could take advantage of holes punched by Fraxure and eliminate bulky Steel and Rock types for it. Both Pokemon were extremely bulky and often stole games for me. Fraxure is better off used on balanced or offensive teams and doesn't require much support at all thanks to its nice bulk, power, and coverage. One thing that would help it a lot though, is a powerful wall breaker that can destroy Regenerator cores. In my case, I used Special Samurott and Lum Berry Rest Exeggutor.
I did not support Fraxure with hazards, but I would imagine that it would be nearly unstoppable with three layers of Spikes up. Substitute could be used over Taunt, but cutting down your health even further can be suicidal at times. Dragon Claw is a much more reliable option, but the damage output is extremely disappointing and leaves you prone to being walled by a lot of Pokemon.
I also tried out Choice Band Fraxure, but it failed to break through Alomomola and other walls, and was too slot and frail to make an impact in my opinion. It was nice to OHKO things like Eelektross and Emboar, but after that, the opponent could just revenge kill you easily.
Fraxure is a great sweeper and should not be overlooked. It has trouble with walls, but so do Pokemon such as Samurott and Gurdurr. Underestimate this little dragon at your own cost.
that wasn't so short but read it it's interesting!!
i'll keep this short and sweet since nobody likes to read this stuff
Fraxure is probably one of the best set-up sweepers in the tier right now. With Taunt, it can set up on one of the most common Physical walls—Alomomola—if it runs Waterfall. After a boost, only the bulkiest of Pokemon can stop its rampage thanks to its flawless coverage. Its typing allows it to set up on a lot of attacks; many sweepers in the tier such as Special Eelektross and Heatmor do not try to cover Dragon-types since they are fairly uncommon. I lack of Ice Shard users also makes revenge-killing Fraxure very difficult. It survives the most powerful priority attack in the tier—Absol's Sucker Punch—with plenty of health to spare.
As Django stated, Fraxure's biggest flaw is having to lock itself into Outrage. The opponent can deal with Fraxure by luring it into using Outrage and switching in a Steel-type or simply stalling it out with Protect. After Fraxure becomes confused, it is much harder to sweep with it. It also lacks a way to recover health, which makes it hard for it to stay alive against offensive teams.
The sweeping partner I used with Fraxure was Gurdurr, which could take advantage of holes punched by Fraxure and eliminate bulky Steel and Rock types for it. Both Pokemon were extremely bulky and often stole games for me. Fraxure is better off used on balanced or offensive teams and doesn't require much support at all thanks to its nice bulk, power, and coverage. One thing that would help it a lot though, is a powerful wall breaker that can destroy Regenerator cores. In my case, I used Special Samurott and Lum Berry Rest Exeggutor.
I did not support Fraxure with hazards, but I would imagine that it would be nearly unstoppable with three layers of Spikes up. Substitute could be used over Taunt, but cutting down your health even further can be suicidal at times. Dragon Claw is a much more reliable option, but the damage output is extremely disappointing and leaves you prone to being walled by a lot of Pokemon.
I also tried out Choice Band Fraxure, but it failed to break through Alomomola and other walls, and was too slot and frail to make an impact in my opinion. It was nice to OHKO things like Eelektross and Emboar, but after that, the opponent could just revenge kill you easily.
Fraxure is a great sweeper and should not be overlooked. It has trouble with walls, but so do Pokemon such as Samurott and Gurdurr. Underestimate this little dragon at your own cost.
that wasn't so short but read it it's interesting!!
Broke 1900 with Bulky SubDD Fraxure (and sometimes offensive SubDD). BS loss from Bite flinching Golurk, Specs Seadra freezing Eelektross, Lefties Gurdurr, and HP Ground Murkrow. One win in OU strong.
@ Eviolite
EVs: 248 HP / 172 SpD / 88 Spe
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Low Kick
This Fraxure set is basically the standard SubDD set with a bulky EV spread. This set allows it to set-up with ease against the likes of Alomomola, Amoonguss, defensive Seismitoad, Audino, Lickilicky (Dragon Tail doesn't break it's sub), (Specs) Zebstrika, Weezing and some other pokes I can't think of right now. Fraxure can take some really hard hits such as Ice Beams and it lures in many of those pokes listed such as Alomomola and Weezing. Unlike other Fraxure sets, this set lacks a lot of power off the bat since it relies on boosting multiple times to sweep. The EVs allows Fraxure to outspeed Swellow after two Dragon Dances and Amoonguss can't break it's sub with Sludge Bomb. Fraxure can even tank a Toxic Boosted Facade from Zangoose. Dragon Claw and Low Kick provide it perfect coverage and Dragon Claw is used over Outrage so it isn't locked and won't get revenge killed easily. After a couple of boosts, the power drop from Outrage isn't missed. I'm alternating between this set and the max Atk and Spe SubDD set since the added power from that set is wonderful and this set doesn't fare too well against full-out offensive teams.
Also for anyone using Lairon, has anyone tried an Autotomize set consisting of Autotomize/Head Smash/Earthquake/Iron Head. It can possibly sweep a weakened team with it's strong Head Smash.
EDIT : Forget the Lairon thing. There's already an Autotomize set onsite.
EVs: 248 HP / 172 SpD / 88 Spe
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Low Kick
This Fraxure set is basically the standard SubDD set with a bulky EV spread. This set allows it to set-up with ease against the likes of Alomomola, Amoonguss, defensive Seismitoad, Audino, Lickilicky (Dragon Tail doesn't break it's sub), (Specs) Zebstrika, Weezing and some other pokes I can't think of right now. Fraxure can take some really hard hits such as Ice Beams and it lures in many of those pokes listed such as Alomomola and Weezing. Unlike other Fraxure sets, this set lacks a lot of power off the bat since it relies on boosting multiple times to sweep. The EVs allows Fraxure to outspeed Swellow after two Dragon Dances and Amoonguss can't break it's sub with Sludge Bomb. Fraxure can even tank a Toxic Boosted Facade from Zangoose. Dragon Claw and Low Kick provide it perfect coverage and Dragon Claw is used over Outrage so it isn't locked and won't get revenge killed easily. After a couple of boosts, the power drop from Outrage isn't missed. I'm alternating between this set and the max Atk and Spe SubDD set since the added power from that set is wonderful and this set doesn't fare too well against full-out offensive teams.
Also for anyone using Lairon, has anyone tried an Autotomize set consisting of Autotomize/Head Smash/Earthquake/Iron Head. It can possibly sweep a weakened team with it's strong Head Smash.
EDIT : Forget the Lairon thing. There's already an Autotomize set onsite.
Like I said in my previous post I felt like Simipour wasn't that great, but felt like Fraxure could have been good if given the right support. So I gave it another chance with a fresh alt and I have found it to actually be pretty damn good. Got to 1900 in about 6 hours total playtime spanning about 2-3 days. I used DD + Taunt Fraxure and did decent with 42-4, though I had a lot of hell getting to 1900 with me losing about 1-2 points every 3 wins even with Bonus Pool.
Fraxure has been really damn awesome for me in these past battles, be it Dragon Dance sweeping or stallbreaking with Taunt teams Fraxure is pretty versatile. One of the most common Stealth Rock users used, Probopass can't stand up whatsoever to Fraxure due to its access to Mold Breaker and Low Kick, while other Pokemon such as Golem and Regirock aren't enjoying a Low Kick either. It's main flaw is locking itself into Outrage in a tier where Klang, Lairon, and Probopass are common alongside its only decent bulk with Eviolite. Thankfully its bulk is just enough to make use of its very neat resistances and set up to prepare for a sweep. With Eviolite it has approximately 66/114/84 defenses which is just slightly less bulky than Samurott, and we know how bulky that thing can be. Add in the Taunt and great resists and you can easily get off a Dragon Dance against most bulky opponents or even against some offensive Pokemon that don't normally carry a move to hit a pure Dragon-type Fraxure such as Eelektross. With max Speed and a Jolly nature Fraxure can outspeed Swellow by a single point, which is an excellent speed tier to hit as outside of Scarf users most people don't use anything faster that.
On my team I had paired up Fraxure with Regice and Gurdurr to cover annoying checks to an unboosted Fraxure such as Special Samurott or Ludicolo and Absol, Golem, Klang, Piloswine, or Skuntank, respectively. It worked pretty nicely for me, and Furi Kuri had a similar motif on his team that worked well for him as well. We both also had a way to deal with Regenerator cores in his LumRest Eggy and my CM/Heal Bell Mushy, which are probably are some of the best partners for Fraxure to have. Spikes support could also be nice as it wears down all of Fraxure best checks such as bulky Water-types, Piloswine, and Mawile (The best counter to Fraxure as it has Intimidate, Seismic Toss, and Low Kick only has 40 BP against it. Not used much at all, research group it please, but better safe than sorry )
Fraxure has been really damn awesome for me in these past battles, be it Dragon Dance sweeping or stallbreaking with Taunt teams Fraxure is pretty versatile. One of the most common Stealth Rock users used, Probopass can't stand up whatsoever to Fraxure due to its access to Mold Breaker and Low Kick, while other Pokemon such as Golem and Regirock aren't enjoying a Low Kick either. It's main flaw is locking itself into Outrage in a tier where Klang, Lairon, and Probopass are common alongside its only decent bulk with Eviolite. Thankfully its bulk is just enough to make use of its very neat resistances and set up to prepare for a sweep. With Eviolite it has approximately 66/114/84 defenses which is just slightly less bulky than Samurott, and we know how bulky that thing can be. Add in the Taunt and great resists and you can easily get off a Dragon Dance against most bulky opponents or even against some offensive Pokemon that don't normally carry a move to hit a pure Dragon-type Fraxure such as Eelektross. With max Speed and a Jolly nature Fraxure can outspeed Swellow by a single point, which is an excellent speed tier to hit as outside of Scarf users most people don't use anything faster that.
On my team I had paired up Fraxure with Regice and Gurdurr to cover annoying checks to an unboosted Fraxure such as Special Samurott or Ludicolo and Absol, Golem, Klang, Piloswine, or Skuntank, respectively. It worked pretty nicely for me, and Furi Kuri had a similar motif on his team that worked well for him as well. We both also had a way to deal with Regenerator cores in his LumRest Eggy and my CM/Heal Bell Mushy, which are probably are some of the best partners for Fraxure to have. Spikes support could also be nice as it wears down all of Fraxure best checks such as bulky Water-types, Piloswine, and Mawile (The best counter to Fraxure as it has Intimidate, Seismic Toss, and Low Kick only has 40 BP against it. Not used much at all, research group it please, but better safe than sorry )
I probably won't formally do this as I have no intention on using any of these mon for a while, but I've used a boosting Lairon to some success in the past.
Lairon @ Eviolite
Adamant Nature
can't remember the EVs, 252atk/252 spe iirc
- Automize
- Roar
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
Automize makes him stupidly fast and more resistant to Grass Knot/Low Kick which doesn't really matter. Head Smash and Earthquake gives solid coverage, hitting anything that doesn't resist it or isn't stupidly bulky pretty hard. Roar is mandatory to stop set up sweepers/phasers/niche threats.
Lairon worked well in my team as a Normal Resist. I replaced him in the end with Physically Defensive Luxray but I recommend him to anyone. A bulkier, Stealth Rockin' set would probably be more efficient though, what with his colossal physical bulk.
Lairon @ Eviolite
Adamant Nature
can't remember the EVs, 252atk/252 spe iirc
- Automize
- Roar
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
Automize makes him stupidly fast and more resistant to Grass Knot/Low Kick which doesn't really matter. Head Smash and Earthquake gives solid coverage, hitting anything that doesn't resist it or isn't stupidly bulky pretty hard. Roar is mandatory to stop set up sweepers/phasers/niche threats.
Lairon worked well in my team as a Normal Resist. I replaced him in the end with Physically Defensive Luxray but I recommend him to anyone. A bulkier, Stealth Rockin' set would probably be more efficient though, what with his colossal physical bulk.
Lairon really doesn't need to be trying Autotomize / Rock Polish sets; without Hone Claws boosts it doesn't hit quite as hard or as accurately as it needs to. The +2 to Speed only gets Adamant sets to 358, which I think is a poor trade for the ability to consistently hit with a boosted Head Smash.