• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

Baton Pass in NU

Is Baton Pass cheap?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 17 23.0%

  • No!

    Votes: 57 77.0%
  • Total voters
    74
Ghostbone said:
Well the idea is that you hit the frailer members with priority before they baton pass.
Click to expand...

Such as...?

The strongest usable priority I can even think of off the top of my head is Adamant CB Basculin's Aqua Jet. Now, consider that a well-built BP team should have two initial priorities during the beginning phases of the match: Get some Speed boosts going (Ninjask, generally) and slip in Defense boosts. Priority and physical attacks are just so common in NU that it's of the utmost importance to get Iron Defense or Barrier boosts in ASAP. Back to priority; knowing that Ninjask is one of the frailest members of the BP team with 61 / 45 / 50 defenses (aside from maybe Mr. Mime?), this should probably be an interesting calculation for you:

CB Adaptability Basculin's Aqua Jet (+Atk) vs standard BP Ninjask: 41.84 - 49.23%

Once a BP team gets its Defense boosts going, it should have relatively no problem dealing with priority unless you're counting on crits. :P
 
Hmm, yea I was mainly thinking mr.mime and Ninjask, but that calc's interesting.

Also, from experience crits are a baton pass team's worst nightmare and are why 5/6 of my team members have substitute lol.

Something else that's hard to handle is no guard golurk, with dynamic punch EQ and Stone edge ( along with possibly sub) It can break subs and confuse with dynamic punch, and hax is all powerful >.>
 
Musharna is not a given on BP teams, but makes sweeping far easier; against some teams, it takes as little as Musharna + full speed pass from Ninjask to win. Ninjask, Mawile, and Mr. Mime are all necessities.

@DTC: The following is the team I used a while back:

Ninjask @ Leftovers
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 224 Def / 36 Spd
Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Protect
- Baton Pass
- X-Scissor

Floatzel @ Leftovers
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Waterfall
- Taunt
- Bulk Up
- Baton Pass

Cradily @ Leftovers
Trait: Suction Cups
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Substitute

Mawile @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Baton Pass
- Iron Defense
- Substitute
- Iron Head

Mr. Mime @ Leftovers
Trait: Soundproof
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Baton Pass
- Psychic
- Substitute

Musharna @ Leftovers
Trait: Forewarn
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Stored Power
- Baton Pass

Musharna may need more speed and Cradily more Attack, but the purpose of each is relatively clear. For those curious as to why I chose Floatzel, I was tired of seeing Haze Wartortle from noobs ruin sweeps. Same goes for Cradily / Whirlwind (in any case, Cradily's attacking prowess leaves a lot to be desired...). Cradily and Floatzel are variable members, but the rest should stay as is bar minor spread alterations.
 
I faced a baton pass team recently and noticed something. I think the fact there aren't that much pokemon that learn baton pass can cause a certan weakness to volt switch and u-turn. ninjask, gorebys and driflbim all take volt switch pretty bad, while the many psychics will suffer from u-turn, especially mr.mime. Many volt switch users also happen to be very fast and can abuse +1 gorebyss who is a possible switch in on rock blast. Even if the volt turners are slower than the baton passers, they can abuse the switch into a bulky poke with pokes such as absol.

Sure after a couple of defence boosts, they won't care. But a team that contains both u-turn and volt switch should have a couple of opportunities to ruin a bp team at the very beggining if they play well. The baton pass team will have to play very wisely and not try to boost every time they get a free turn.

I'm thinking emolga could partially solve this problem since he's the only baton passer to have an electric immunity in NU, resists u-turn and outspeeds about every switch-in at +1. His great defensive typing, access to agility, motor drive, charge beam and reliable recovery can also make him a decent passer. You still are pretty vulnerable when a fast volt switcher meets your gorebyss though.
 
The thing is, ninjask protects first turn on your rock blast or whatever ( or even predicts your prediction of protect and subs on the stealth rocks) then immediately baton passes out.
You switch to a volturner and ninjask will just baton pass out to the appropriate defensive pivot who will sub/boost up on you.
 
if ninjask predicts SR over rock blast, the guy is probably stupid because he's risking the whole game on this very first turn. Baton passers that resist rock and don't fear earthquake are pretty damn rare. this is why the opponent will often switch into something physicaly bulky like gorebyss that fears volt switch. Thinking he has a free set up turn, he could set up a barrier or even an agility (no speed investment will leave you slower than anything scarfed) and then be outsped by the incoming electric type.
It's not impossible to set up against a team with volt-turn, it just requires skill.
 
So I've been thinking about what counters baton pass and trying to figure out what can counteract that.

Emolga seems like a perfect fit on baton pass teams, especially with it's access to taunt and STAB electric to fry would be whirlwinders, so it helps stop the rare haze wartortle from ruining your day, and other "common" hazers are handled by mr.mime.
Other possibly useful moves include charge beam, roost, sub, encore and light screen (or charge... Lol)
Its ground immunity and bug/fighting resistance are nice too, but it has pathetic bulk to take advantage of them.
I'm thinking a team of jask/mime/emolga/gorebyss(possibly solrock here too)/mawile with a sweeper would be ideal, any thoughts?
 
Just jumping back in here.
The Baton Pass team I've used is Ninjask (for Speed), Mawile (for Defense and Subs), Musharna (for Heal Bell and Calm Mind), Mr. Mime (for Taunt and Calm Mind), Octillery to sweep at the end, and Swellow to cause havoc if the pass fails. I like using Octillery as a recipient as he's strong, gets great type coverage (Surf/Ice Beam/Flamethrower/Energy Ball), and can't be forced out due to Suction Cups. With maximum HP investment, +2 defense and +2-6 special defense nothing is going to take him down.
That being said, I've lost more times than I've won, but that's mainly due to my poor play.
 
Likewise for Zebraiken, I disagree with a large amount of the posts that discuss about priority. It's overrated, and full BP teams have more than enough ways around this.

Now, has anyone even discussed about Sawsbuck? It seems to have quite a niche itself as a Baton Passer, with Sap Sipper to defeat any attempts of your opponent attempting to Leech Seed, Sleep Powder or Spore your non-Substitute recipient, not to mention nabbing a useful boost, while also having Agility/Swords Dance/Substitute/Work Up to utilize. On the offensive side, with Return, Horn Leech, and Nature Power, it has the proper coverage and Speed to beat many of the common Taunt users, such as Skuntank and Misdreavus. It also shares great synergy in particular with a core of Sawsbuck, Mawile, Gorebyss and Musharna.

018.gif
 
@Agent Dell, I've never used Sawsbuck before but he seems pretty great by your description. A Spore immunity is always great, and it saves your team from using up precious moveslots/items (for example, I always run Lum Berry on my Octillery to prevent status). He also has the offensive presence to act as a sweeper in his own right.

Alright, from now on I'm going to create a database of efficient, useful Baton Pass users and recipients in the OP. I'll post a few of my own sets later, but for now I'll just create a skeleton in the OP. Feel free to add your own sets! :)
 
After experimenting on my own, and realizing how hard it actually is to beat a well built Bp team. I agree with Zebraiken. After you get the Iron Defense boosts/Calm Minds you are virtually unbeatable. Beatable, yes. but very hard to accomplish so.
 
Volbeat @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Calm
Evs 252 HP 252 SpD 4 def
Baton Pass
Substitute
Tail Glow
Encore

This set is very good because it can switch in on a poke that is setting up swords dances on your Watortle (don't use watortle) or in any other predicted double stat boosting moves, then encore. Predicting moves such as toxic while you have volbeat out will allow you to set up a sub and encore. Prediction is key in using volbeat. Use him right, and he will bless you. It is amazing with the right pokes. Seadra is a good option to use with it, resisting it's fire weakness. Fill me in on some other options too i would appreciate it. I would watch out though on taunts, especially from murkrow, because murkrow can shut you down. :)
 
Murkrow, though I've never faced one with my Baton Pass team, seems like the tactic's worst enemy, thanks to priority taunt. Get him in before it's too late and it's game over, unless you have a backup plan. I wonder what can counter him besides epic prediction, as Taunt goes through Substitute, unless I'm mistaken.
 
I've faced a Murkrow. It's basically an instant loss if the opponent has one, not much you can really do about it.

I also got ruined by some random special snowflake using Shedinja of all things, but that's mostly the fault of my own team rather than baton pass in general.
 
Annoyer
Probopass breaks Ninjask's subs with Flash Cannon, Ladder Noob proceeds to Baton Pass into Rampardos which becomes ded).
Click to expand...
You made my day right here !! lol that happens all the time and its funny every singel time...
 
Bummer said:
I've used a Walrein with Roar, and it has proven very useful.

Also: Ditto.
Click to expand...

Yes, but it's not particularly common. :P

Ditto can certainly come in and copy all the boosts, but it has multiple flaws - firstly, unless you're using non-Choice Scarf (why?), you're locked into 5 PP of a single move where 3/4 of them will likely be boosting moves, Baton Pass, and Substitute (and often the last move is a STAB move, meaning they'll likely resist it). While copying said boosts and using their own BP to hand them off to a receiver of your own is a perfectly valid strategy and something to watch out for, I think you'll find that it's next to impossible to pull off, especially when almost every single Pokemon on a BP team carries Substitute (which blocks Imposter from working altogether). Unless you can time it perfectly by bringing Ditto in after a KO in which you break the Sub, it's gonna be really hard for that to actually work effectively. :(
 
If you see a murkrow you basically have to try and force it in and kill it, it will break the chain and is really annoying to face though.
 
Zebraiken said:
Yes, but it's not particularly common. :P

Ditto can certainly come in and copy all the boosts, but it has multiple flaws - firstly, unless you're using non-Choice Scarf (why?), you're locked into 5 PP of a single move where 3/4 of them will likely be boosting moves, Baton Pass, and Substitute (and often the last move is a STAB move, meaning they'll likely resist it). While copying said boosts and using their own BP to hand them off to a receiver of your own is a perfectly valid strategy and something to watch out for, I think you'll find that it's next to impossible to pull off, especially when almost every single Pokemon on a BP team carries Substitute (which blocks Imposter from working altogether). Unless you can time it perfectly by bringing Ditto in after a KO in which you break the Sub, it's gonna be really hard for that to actually work effectively. :(
Click to expand...

Well, if you're a smart player playing against a player using ditto, that means you don't do anything without using sub first. As zeb stated, you need perfect prediction of when a sub breaks to guess when to send in ditto.

Murkrow does indeed break the chain; priority Taunt obviously helps it do so as well.
 
on the topic of baton pass sweepers, with the little experiance I have with them, I find glaceon to be one of the top BP sweepers. Not only is he already super strong and pretty bulky, glaceon's STAB ice beam can wreck things even without any boosts. He also has access to stored power, which you all know that move's effect. Finally, it itself has baton pass, so it can keep the chain alive if he hits something he can't touch (ie probo and bastiodon)
 
I can attest to glaceon being an amazing baton pass sweeper
It's main problem is choice band sawk since rocks are really hard to fit onto a baton pass team and sturdy is likely to be intact (you don't live the close combat unless you're at +4 defense iirc)
The main appeal is its nice defensive stats in general and its use as an offensive pivot against taunt users (OHKOing murkrow and doing tonnes to noctowl is a boon too)


Also, what are people's favourite items for ninjask? I'm currently using petaya berry but I'm thinking mental herb might be better...
 
Ghostbone said:
Also, what are people's favourite items for ninjask? I'm currently using petaya berry but I'm thinking mental herb might be better...
Click to expand...

Arguably the best item is Leftovers so that Ninjask can keep using Substitute. Mental Herb is decent for Taunt as well, but I think that in a Baton Pass chain, one of the bulkier members would be better off holding it. If you use a pinch Berry, Ninjask will only have 4 Subs at most, though it may be enough if you only want a single set-up opportunity. Leftovers does give Ninjask the chance to set up more than once per battle though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top