Sub Terrakion with Rock slide is great, not running Rock Gem as I hate not have lefties to make up for lost health, flinch hax is great as it can get you through a lot of it's counters if luck be with you.
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BW2 General Metagame Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Tobes
- Start date
Due the "lack" of Power in Scarf Terrakion, I do recommend having Toxic on Terrakion. Things such as Jellicent or Slowbro are severely crippled by it. I do really recommend having Toxic on random mons to annoy unexpected things.
Another move that I recommend on Scarf is SR. In an obvious switch, throw it and forget about it until the opponent spins it.
Terrakion will be locked in one of this two movs, but it doesn't care since the mon that would be facing will be likely a counter.
About HP Ice on Terrakion, I'd rather use an Scarf Gothitelle with this attack to trap and them. Unfortunately, Landorus-T sometimes carries U-turn.
Another thing to comment is, for around a month, the item that I see most on Terrakion is Life Orb. It is truly terrifying.
Another move that I recommend on Scarf is SR. In an obvious switch, throw it and forget about it until the opponent spins it.
Terrakion will be locked in one of this two movs, but it doesn't care since the mon that would be facing will be likely a counter.
About HP Ice on Terrakion, I'd rather use an Scarf Gothitelle with this attack to trap and them. Unfortunately, Landorus-T sometimes carries U-turn.
Another thing to comment is, for around a month, the item that I see most on Terrakion is Life Orb. It is truly terrifying.
... your that guy, such a curve ball always throws me off, If I remember correctly you did that, then hit me with CB Mamoswine, which because of toxic, I was 2HKOed
NoUserName, I've used both of these moves on Ubers, and they are effective, but we are in OU and I didn't had time to see if they are effective here... Also, Terrakion with Scarf is not lacking on power, it just isn't suitable for wallbreaking. It doesn't have the same power as the Choice Band set and thus is prone to being walled by Skarmory and Slowbro.
Being locked on one of these moves is very risky and Terrakion doesn't have much time to setup Stealth Rock if it has a Choice item. The only time that I've used a random Toxic was on Magnezone, since the opponent almost always avoid switching Steel-types, so I am guaranteed to Toxic an opponent, and one of the most common Poison-type Pokémon, Tentacruel, is weak to Thunderbolt.
Speaking of Magnezone, how it is going now that Genesect is common? And Genesect can just U-Turn away or roast Magnezone with Flamethrower...
Being locked on one of these moves is very risky and Terrakion doesn't have much time to setup Stealth Rock if it has a Choice item. The only time that I've used a random Toxic was on Magnezone, since the opponent almost always avoid switching Steel-types, so I am guaranteed to Toxic an opponent, and one of the most common Poison-type Pokémon, Tentacruel, is weak to Thunderbolt.
Speaking of Magnezone, how it is going now that Genesect is common? And Genesect can just U-Turn away or roast Magnezone with Flamethrower...
Magnezone is tricky, because it plays mindgames with Genesect (especially scarf which is most common), and threatens to trap if it uses Ice Beam / Thunderbolt, moves which Genesect can commonly use to revenge kill stuff. The tricky part is that Magnezone has to predict an Ice Beam / Thunderbolt, or sacrifice something to force Genesect to lock itself into these moves, so it can be trapped. What compounds the problem is that Genesect + Dugtrio is a common combo, and Dugtrio can easily trap Magnezone if its accidently brought itself in on a U-Turn. Basically, Magnezone is still as good as it used to be, it can still trap and kill genesect, you just need to build your team correctly so that its encouraged to use Ice Beam / Thunderbolt in order to revenge something, which can allow you to dictate play better.
I meant Terrakion with Scarf is free Recover/Slack Off.... on various mons.
To add to this, Magnezone does not work well against Genesect for the following reasons:
- Genesect is most commonly used as a scout- U-Turn is its most common move, and should Magnezone switch in to a U-Turn, it could easily be trapped and revenged. This does not help the owner of Magnezone at all.
- both +1 Thunderbolt and +1 Ice Beam deal more than 25% to Magnezone- meaning that it cannot set up. If you use a Scarf set, and lock yourself into HP Fire, then you're easily revenged as well- and it also transforms you in to easy set up bait for Dragons.
- Even if you try to bait in Ice Beam/Tbolt, it's pretty obvious that you're going to be trying to trap, what with team preview giving your strategy away. Unless you're using DragMag, making most of your team weak to BoltBeam just to counter Genesect is not a good idea, because there are other, better ways to counter it.
Having zone on your team can force genesect to u-turn most of the time, which means you are usually free to set up or nail the switch in.
So it does work, just like you would do with scizor.
To make a sub unbreakable by a +1 Ice Beam (or Tbolt) you need 252 HP / 92 SpD, so it's not worth it to do it. However pairing Zone with Gyarados is a good idea, as Genesect does not gain a SpA boost, and thus you can set-up on it if it kills your Gyarados, as an unboosted Tbolt does 22.41% max to Zone. In addition to this, Zone can get rid of Ferrothorn, so that's another plus of this partnership!
If you really want a good way to deal with genesect, do what i do and lead with sableye, then burn it. They never expect it, and spdef sableye can only be beaten by specs bug buzz genesect. (I guess LO bug buzz genesect can sort of wear it down, but it's only got 5 turns to do so, and it won't do that much more than 56%.) This doesn't work if the enemy refuses to let you WoW, but they often do, weirdly enough.
That only works against bad players. And if they're bad, you're likely going to beat them anyway if you have a decent head on your shoulders. I would never let Genesect take status since that amount of switches it makes per battle is important (literally every switch counts... that's why I try to prevent my opponent from laying down rocks asap).
Suffice to say, there isn't a lot you can do against Genesect aside from playing "well."
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Magnezone is such a lame Pokemon. I basically stopped using it when I realized that "sure you can trap steels, but have fun allowing a bunch of strong Pokemon from continually switching into it and threatening your entire team with strong attacks." Admittedly the ability to trap Genesect is huge (try to force it to use Thunderbolt) but on average i'd rather use another offensive Pokemon.
Suffice to say, there isn't a lot you can do against Genesect aside from playing "well."
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Magnezone is such a lame Pokemon. I basically stopped using it when I realized that "sure you can trap steels, but have fun allowing a bunch of strong Pokemon from continually switching into it and threatening your entire team with strong attacks." Admittedly the ability to trap Genesect is huge (try to force it to use Thunderbolt) but on average i'd rather use another offensive Pokemon.
See PK, i used to think that too. Then it KEPT. FUCKING. HAPPENING. Now, i'm playing on PO2, so maybe they all just suck horribly, but it seems like average players let it happen way too often.
The deal with magnezone is that all my steels run shed shell, so i don't care. (Seriously, i even have a shed shell tran now, even if it's not for magnezone.) The reasoning being that, if i ever really NEEDED skarm/ferro/forry, they'd have a magnezone.
The deal with magnezone is that all my steels run shed shell, so i don't care. (Seriously, i even have a shed shell tran now, even if it's not for magnezone.) The reasoning being that, if i ever really NEEDED skarm/ferro/forry, they'd have a magnezone.
Yeah, but i have to say, people really do suck on PO2, so it's a little bit skewed for me. For example, i gain a huge advantage if i spore a rain team's ferro, so i lead with amoonguss V. politoed. I figure they know it too, so i toxic... and in comes ferro. Beast prediction? Well, it would be... if they didn't LET ME SPORE IT THE NEXT TURN. Cue semi-sweep by starmie. (i mean, it takes some time, but starmie easily switches into a lot of rain-stall stuff.)
I mean, to be fair, i have a bulkytran. So maybe they just DGAF, but they could still try to wear it down via SR and u-turn, then dual plus one t-bolts.
I mean, to be fair, i have a bulkytran. So maybe they just DGAF, but they could still try to wear it down via SR and u-turn, then dual plus one t-bolts.
Question...in general, is it better to run Jolly/Timid Band/Specs or Modest/Adamant Scarf?
Its it important to note that most of the people you are playing against, even on good servers, aren't that amazing at pokemon and can easily be tricked and surprised. I think "good people won't fall for that" play only really applies to high level tournament play, and lets be honest here, like maybe 50 people on the site currently play that good, if that.
Makes sense. There are little windows of opportunity to surprise the opponent given the right criteria, so knowing when can create a big advantage. Thanks for the advice guys!
Problem with Magnezone is that it isn't suitable to deal with offensive Steel-types. Of the offensive Steel-types on the metagame, not counting Magnezone itself, 2 of them have a type advantage against Magnezone (Heatran and Lucario), 2 of them can still deal with Magnezone with the right attack (Genesect and Scizor), and the last one has the bulk to tank Magnezone's attacks and use it as setup fodder (Jirachi).
And against the best players, even trying to trap the defensive ones is a hard task. They will try to predict when you are going to send Magnezone, just run Shed Shell or let you trap their Pokémon when their job was already done.
The best check to offensive Steel-types now is Heatran. It cannot trap Steel-types but has a better STAB that can deal with all Steel-types on the metagame bar itself, that can be dealt with Earth Power. Some offensive Steel-types lack a way to defeat Heatran without resorting to Hidden Power, and those that do can be dealth with the right set or prediction.
Just posting here to say that Magnezone doesnt really trap any steel reliably except Skarmory. Forretress has Volt Switch, Scizor has Superpower, Genesect has Flamethrower, Jirachi can Fire Punch/U-Turn/Trick/Calm Mind, Bronzong has Earthquake, Heatran has Earth Power/Flamethrower and in rain Ferrothorn can outstall even Hidden Power Fire Variants.
Double switching on a ferrothorn is a good chance to use a subchargebeam set. If you can force the bullet punch, banded scizor is dead, scarf variants can do the job of finishing off certain weakened steels etc etc. Magnezone isn't trash by any means, its just not godly or the one answer to your steel type woes. Honestly the only electric type I like using, but I invest in defenses and take advantage of his tasty resistances.
Resists: grass/flying/bug/rock/ice/dragon/steel/ghost/dark/electric/psychic/poison, right? I know its popular to max out DAT SPECIAL ATTACK but his defenses aren't that shabby when invested properly considering it has the best total type resistances in the meta outside of spiritomb and shedinja (lol).
I know earthquake and fighting attacks are everywhere, but pokemon is all about correct prediction isn't it?
Resists: grass/flying/bug/rock/ice/dragon/steel/ghost/dark/electric/psychic/poison, right? I know its popular to max out DAT SPECIAL ATTACK but his defenses aren't that shabby when invested properly considering it has the best total type resistances in the meta outside of spiritomb and shedinja (lol).
I know earthquake and fighting attacks are everywhere, but pokemon is all about correct prediction isn't it?
You guys are being way too hard on Mag. If Fortress is Volt Switching all the time then its not setting up hazards so its not really pulling its weight on the opponents team. Scizor is usually choiced, and a CB superpower is massive setup bait. If it kills your Mag on the switch thats your fault, not Mags. Genesect is the same situation, and is easily trapped if it uses Tbolt/Icebeam. If you dont like Bronzong, nothing is stopping you from using a Specs set with Volt Switch or something. Heatran wins, ill give you that one. Non Bulldoze Ferrothorn are setup bait for Sub/Charge Beam, and Jirachi is roughly an even matchup, depending on the sets.
Mag has the strongest Thunder outside of Ubers (IIRC), and can hit most ground types extremely hard with Flash Cannon. If you don't like him thats fine, but there is no reason to pretend he is a bad Pokemon.