VGC 2012 Hail

[StreetSmartPanda]

I've been playing with this Hail team for VGC 2012 for a few weeks now, and it's had a fair amount of success, however, it could definitely do with some improvements.

The Team

Abomasnow (M) @ Occa Berry
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Ice Shard
- Protect

Without Abomasnow, this team wouldn't even be a Hail team. I chose bulky spread over Scarfed as I really enjoy the utility of Protect. Blizzard and Giga Drain are powerful Special STABs, Blizzard being able to hit both opponents with a chance to freeze, and Giga Drain restoring HP. Ice Shard is priority, used as a last ditch move when Abomasnow is nearly dead, or to quickly finish one opponent off. Occa Berry lets Abomasnow take at least one Fire-type attack and still get a hit off. Max HP and SpA EVs are to maximise bulk and offence, with the last 4 EVs going into Atk to give Ice Shard a bit more power. A Quiet nature and 0 Spd IVs are to outslow other weather users at the start of a battle and get my weather up and running.

Mamoswine (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Oblivious
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Slide
- Protect

Mamoswine is my physical Hail abuser. Ice Shard is a strong priority STAB, being able to do serious damage to anything weak to it. Icicle Spear is Mamoswine's other Ice STAB, doing hefty damage and being able to break Sturdy and Focus Sash. For the 3rd attack, I went with Rock Slide over Earthquake for 2 reasons; the chance to flinch is really nice, and Mamoswine is usually sent out first with Abomasnow, and I really hate damaging my own team mates, because that's screwed me over a few times in the past. Max Atk and Spd with Jolly nature and Life Orb to dish out as much damage as possible as quickly as possible.

Latios (M) @ White Herb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Def / 248 SAtk / 4 SDef / 248 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Surf
- Protect

White Herb Latios is one of my favourite things in the VGC 2012 metagame, being able to fire off a power Draco Meteor, and still able to dish out damage without having to switch. The EVs and Nature are taken from Smogon's page for Latios. Draco Meteor is Latios' main weapon of choice, doing severe damage to anything that doesn't resist it. I've chosen Psyshock over Psychic to hit specially defensive opponents, and Surf is to round off the set, hitting Rock, Ground, and Fire types super effectively.

Froslass (F) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Snow Cloak
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Blizzard
- Shadow Ball
- Destiny Bond
- Protect

Froslass is my other Hail abuser, this time being specially offensive. With a Focus Sash, Froslass can survive a hit with at least one HP left, and if I think the opponent is going to attack Froslass the next turn, I use Destiny Bond to take the opponent down with me. And if that doesn't work, due to either my opponent not attacking, or missing due to Snow Cloak, they get scared of the Destiny Bond and focus their energy on Froslass' partner. Blizzard and Shadow Ball are Froslass' dual STAB, Blizzard hitting both opponents with a chance to freeze, and Shadow Ball hitting Ghost and Psychic types and potentially lowering SpD. And max SpA and Spd with a Timid nature are for dishing out as much damage as possible before having to Destiny Bond.

Rotom-W @ Electric Gem
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Protect

Another Pokemon I love to run in VGCs. Rotom-W with an Electric Gem can do hefty damage to Rain teams, with an Electic Gem-boosted Thunderbolt being able to easily OHKO defensive Politoed. Hydro Pump is Rotom's other STAB, doing nice damage to many Pokemon, and Hidden Power Fire is to remedy the lack of options against Steel Pokemon. Max HP and SpA with a Modest nature are for maximum bulk and offensive power, with the last 4 EVs going to SpD so Rotom can take Special moves a tad better than what it would otherwise.

Hitmontop (M) @ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch
- Detect

Hitmontop is a bit of a utility Pokemon, being very bulky and weakening the strength of physical opponents with Intimidate. Fake Out is a necessity on Hitmontop, breaking Focus Sash and Sturdy, as well as stopping one opposing Pokemon from doing anything for a turn. Close Combat is Hitmontop's STAB attack, doing lots of damage to unresisted hits, and a lot of damage to even Chople Berry Tyranitar, which is a pretty big threat to this team, and Sucker Punch is an option for getting the jump on an attacking opponent, which can potentially OHKO things like Gengar and Latios. Max HP and Atk with an Adamant nature for bulk and power, and a Sitrus berry is to keep Hitmontop healthy.


Overall, I'm very happy with how this team works. I've won most of the battles I've had, but it still has a few issues. I have a bit of trouble with Sand teams due them being a good counter to Hail in general.

 

[TheMantyke]

VGC 2012's just about completely expired, but it's still cool to see a nice looking team as the door closes. You have a solid team on your hands, but there's definitely room for improvement. Here's what I suggest:

Mamoswine really isn't optimal. You should be using Thick Fat in place of Oblivious as it gives Mamoswine a handy neutrality to Fire and a resistance to Ice. Also, you should really, really reconsider your choice of dropping Earthquake in favor of Rock Slide. You have two Pokemon immune to Earthquake as is and other partners can simply protect if the need arises. Additionally, Rock coverage isn't adding much to Ice while Ground coverage alongside Ice is amazingly useful.

I don't like the look of a White Herb on Latios. Getting to fire off two Draco Meteors with no Special Attack drops is cool and all, but Intimidate is everywhere in this rule set and more often than not, your White Herb will be activating to patch up your Attack. Instead, I recommend switching to a Dragon Gem as it gives you a nasty powerful hit, OHKOing several things that don't resist it or aren't specifically EV'd to take the hit. Surf is a bit of a questionable coverage move as none of your team mates are immune to it (though Rotom-W and Abomasnow don't mind taking the hit). Instead, I would recommend either Substitute to shield Latios from Hitmontop's Sucker Punch, Hidden Power Fire to help deal with Steel-types, or Blizzard. Blizzard sounds silly coming from a Dragon-type, but it's still a 120 Base Power spread move with great neutral coverage coming off of a huge Special Attack stat.

I'm not so sure how much an Occa Berry is helping Abomasnow. I'm skeptical it's living many important Fire-type hits and it's still perfectly exposed to the omnipresent Scizor and Metagross. As weird as it sounds, even with substantial investment, Abomasnow is very fragile, even moreso than Froslass. I would recommend giving Abomasnow the Focus Sash instead of Froslass and maybe stick Froslass with a Babiri Berry or Colbur Berry instead.

Speaking of Froslass, if you find yourself struggling to bust through Hail's most solid checks and counters like Heatran, Scizor, and Metagross, I feel like it's the most expendable member. In its place, you could consider running a Heatran to overcome those troublesome foes.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Flash Fire
52 HP / 252 SpAtk / 204 Speed
Modest
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Protect
- Substitute

Heatran decimates all of those common adversaries of Hail and provides your team with a much welcomed Dragon-type resist. It forms a nice core with Abomansow as well, deterring your opponent from Heat Waving Abomasnow for fear of activating Heatran's Flash Fire. On top of that, it has phenomenal coverage when used alongside Latios, Hitmontop, or Rotom-w hitting a huge variety of targets for super-effective damage.

Hope my advice helped!

 

[tlyee61]

Instead, I would recommend either Substitute to shield Latios from Hitmontop's Sucker Punch, Hidden Power Fire to help deal with Steel-types, or Blizzard. Blizzard sounds silly coming from a Dragon-type, but it's still a 120 Base Power spread move with great neutral coverage coming off of a huge Special Attack stat.

IIRC, Latios can't learn Blizzard...

 

[TheMantyke]

IIRC, Latios can't learn Blizzard...

Well, this is embarrassing. You're correct; I mistakenly thought it could learn Blizzard since it had Ice Beam. My bad. With that out of the way, I guess I can only recommend Substitute and Hidden Power Fire as replacements for that coverage slot on Latios.

 

[StreetSmartPanda]

VGC 2012's just about completely expired, but it's still cool to see a nice looking team as the door closes. You have a solid team on your hands, but there's definitely room for improvement. Here's what I suggest:

Mamoswine really isn't optimal. You should be using Thick Fat in place of Oblivious as it gives Mamoswine a handy neutrality to Fire and a resistance to Ice. Also, you should really, really reconsider your choice of dropping Earthquake in favor of Rock Slide. You have two Pokemon immune to Earthquake as is and other partners can simply protect if the need arises. Additionally, Rock coverage isn't adding much to Ice while Ground coverage alongside Ice is amazingly useful.

Mamoswine's Ability was meant to be Snow Cloak, but I guess I forgot to change and have been running Oblivious the whole time :3

I don't like the look of a White Herb on Latios. Getting to fire off two Draco Meteors with no Special Attack drops is cool and all, but Intimidate is everywhere in this rule set and more often than not, your White Herb will be activating to patch up your Attack. Instead, I recommend switching to a Dragon Gem as it gives you a nasty powerful hit, OHKOing several things that don't resist it or aren't specifically EV'd to take the hit. Surf is a bit of a questionable coverage move as none of your team mates are immune to it (though Rotom-W and Abomasnow don't mind taking the hit). Instead, I would recommend either Substitute to shield Latios from Hitmontop's Sucker Punch, Hidden Power Fire to help deal with Steel-types, or Blizzard. Blizzard sounds silly coming from a Dragon-type, but it's still a 120 Base Power spread move with great neutral coverage coming off of a huge Special Attack stat.

I know the risk of using White Herb when there are a bunch of Intimidate users in the competition, but I can play around it fairly easily. I'd rather have two moderately powerful Draco Meteors before having to switch than one really powerful Draco Meteor. I chose Substitute over Hidden Power Fire because with Heatran and Rotom-W, I should be fine with Steel types.

I'm not so sure how much an Occa Berry is helping Abomasnow. I'm skeptical it's living many important Fire-type hits and it's still perfectly exposed to the omnipresent Scizor and Metagross. As weird as it sounds, even with substantial investment, Abomasnow is very fragile, even moreso than Froslass. I would recommend giving Abomasnow the Focus Sash instead of Froslass and maybe stick Froslass with a Babiri Berry or Colbur Berry instead.

Speaking of Froslass, if you find yourself struggling to bust through Hail's most solid checks and counters like Heatran, Scizor, and Metagross, I feel like it's the most expendable member. In its place, you could consider running a Heatran to overcome those troublesome foes.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Flash Fire
52 HP / 252 SpAtk / 204 Speed
Modest
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Protect
- Substitute

Heatran decimates all of those common adversaries of Hail and provides your team with a much welcomed Dragon-type resist. It forms a nice core with Abomansow as well, deterring your opponent from Heat Waving Abomasnow for fear of activating Heatran's Flash Fire. On top of that, it has phenomenal coverage when used alongside Latios, Hitmontop, or Rotom-w hitting a huge variety of targets for super-effective damage.

Hope my advice helped!

Thanks for the Heatran advice. I've swapped out Froslass for Heatran, and I'll get around to testing it. I've also given Abomasnow a Focus Sash, and I'll later try moving the Abomasnow's HP EVs elsewhere, as the Focus Sash pretty much alleviates the need for bulk.

Also, I forgot to thank you for your advice with my Sand team a few weeks back. Thanks to your help, I managed to get 3rd place in a local tournament. Could've gotten second or even first if I had've played a bit smarter in the semi-final.

 

[Fantom0]

Hey! This is my first rate in a while, so I may be a bit rusty, but this is a Hail team! Hooray!

Anyway, it could be neatened up a bit, so I'm going to give a bit of advice...

Abomasnow - Occa berry rarely helps Abomasnow. The rare HP Fire users are terrified of Abomasnow, and anything possessing anything more than that is going to KO you anyway. Having your item as Focus Sash (since you claim to have removed Froslass) would help, and since you don't really need the HP, you can move that into speed. The little things.
Mamoswine - I can only repeat that you should really have Earthquake over Rock Slide. It is one of the key reasons one would use Mamoswine. You should also have Thick Fat as your ability.
Latios - I really prefer a set of Draco Meteor/Psychic/Substitute/Tailwind on Latios; a lot of your team massively appreciates a Tailwind boost, and Substitute I find is a great replacement for Protect, since Latios has a tendency to Protect most matches. SubLatios really screws over CressChomp, since Garchomp is too scared and Cress can't TWave/Icy Wind the Sub. Psychic is for Terrakion, since the only real deciding factor between Psychic and Psyshock on Latios is if you want to take out Terrakion or Virizion, and Virizion doesn't do much against your team anyway. You could also do with tweaking that EV set slightly, since 248 doesn't do anything for Latios - you should really be going 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe, since you at least want to speed tie with opposing 110s.
Froslass - As per your previous post, I'm assuming that you've changed Froslass for Heatran. In which case, I would heavily recommend a Shuca Berry so you can hopefully beat enemy Heatran.
Rotom-W - Between Heatran, Hitmontop, and Mamoswine, Rotom really doesn't need HP Fire. You could try a more supportive option like a screen, Will-o-Wisp or Thunder Wave.
Hitmontop - Your team would benefit massively from Wide Guard over Detect, since 4 of them are weak to a spread move of some kind. I would also be really bland and recommend Fighting Gem on Hitmontop, since it can destroy TTar, even those old-fashioned Max HP ones with Chople.

To sum up:
Focus Sash and 252 Spe > HP on Abomasnow
Thick Fat and Earthquake > Rock Slide on Mamoswine
Draco Meteor/Psychic/Substitute/Tailwind and 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe on Latios
Shuca Berry on Heatran
Try replacing HP Fire on Rotom-W
Wide Guard > Detect and Fighting Gem on Hitmontop

That's all. Hope I helped!