Landorus-T (GP 2/2)

This generally looks good, except for a few things I'm not sure about:

- What does Swords Dance do on the first set? It looks really pointless. You aren't going to sweep with no Speed investment. Wanting a "superbulky SD user" is most certainly not a valid reason. I suppose you could argue that it's use is wallbreaking, but even then I think Gravity might prove the better option. IMO, you should just remove SD from the set. It's unlikely that you'd have a better Pokemon to use SR on your team.

- The more defensive spread you mention in AC has Speed on it for some reason. Presume that's just an error.

- You should mention adding Speed in AC though, probably up to around the Max Speed Tyranitar mark (as this is a common amount of Speed for many Base 100s). The spread I would actually use Speed creeps so I'm not sure what you'd do there.

- Everything Pocket said. I slightly prefer his spread although they are very similar.

- I think there probably is room for a more offensive set with Stealth Rock (or, rather, room for Stealth Rock on a more offensive set). Basically just like the Gravity or Rock Polish set but without Gravity or Rock Polish. At the very least give this some sort of a mention somewhere in the analysis.
 
You probably already are gonna do this, but on the Gravity set, seeing as HP Ice is the first option on the last slot, shouldn't Naive be the first nature?
 
I think what ojama was going at the whole time was that the top set should be called "defensive pivot"...I believe that is the term for something used on an offensive team that takes hits and switches momentum to the offensive team's favor...Isn't bronzong a defensive pivot used on offensive teams? Offensive pivot sounds like something used on a stall team.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/pokemon_dictionary Ctrl+F defensive pivot...this sounds like what landorus is going for.
 
Now I'm new and this must be like my 3rd post, but...

The way I see it, Lando-T just doesn't have the stats for an offensive pivot when compared to Lando-I. 91 Base Speed is trolly in the first place, but when the vast majority of the OU metagame outspeeds it (Starmie, anybody? How about Hydreigon, who gets immunity to EQ, anything base 100, etc...) it really does need the Rock Polish or Choice Scarf set to sweep.

Not to mention, Lando-I gets a 30% boost to the majority of its attacks in sand, giving it a higher effective attacking power if you can win the weather war (and TTar is still probably the best weather starter, imo). Overall, the only draw of Lando-T is the bulk and Intimidate, which lend themselves to a Defensive Pivot set, as detailed above. For anything involving smashing stuff to kingdom come, Lando-I has more immediate options.
 
Chimera404 said:
Now I'm new and this must be like my 3rd post, but...

The way I see it, Lando-T just doesn't have the stats for an offensive pivot when compared to Lando-I. 91 Base Speed is trolly in the first place, but when the vast majority of the OU metagame outspeeds it (Starmie, anybody? How about Hydreigon, who gets immunity to EQ, anything base 100, etc...) it really does need the Rock Polish or Choice Scarf set to sweep.

Not to mention, Lando-I gets a 30% boost to the majority of its attacks in sand, giving it a higher effective attacking power if you can win the weather war (and TTar is still probably the best weather starter, imo). Overall, the only draw of Lando-T is the bulk and Intimidate, which lend themselves to a Defensive Pivot set, as detailed above. For anything involving smashing stuff to kingdom come, Lando-I has more immediate options.
Click to expand...

As a user of the Offensive Pivot set (should be renamed Defensive Pivot imo since it's used as a tank for more offensive teams) Lando-T can totally pull off a more defensive set. It pretty much checks every common physical attacker not named Gyarados and Mamoswine. Without a Water or Ice move, Lando-T will, at the very worst, check every physical sweeper with a defensive spread. You can even use Lando-T on a Sand team. It protects Ttar from most Fighting types, and it can setup SR, which lets Ttar run its Band set with even fewer qualms. Sure, Lando-T isn't going to sweep with that defensive spread, but that set isn't meant to sweep. It's meant to check heavy hitters on the physical side and dish back out the pain. I've found it very useful on rain teams due to its ability to almost always beat Ttar AND avoid getting trapped by the likes of Dugtrio and Gothitelle. Many things on Sun teams hate the idea of trying to switch in on Lando-T due to them being weak to at least one part of EdgeQuake. (this includes Ninetales)
 
Sorry for taking so long, I've implemented all of the changes from Pocket and jc (as well as some others).

Choice Band- Sorry, but I'm going to need more convincing on this one. Just a single-line "i tested this, it's fantastic" won't cut it here. Landorus-I is simply too slow to be a reliable CBer, especially with a STAB that is such a liability- choice-locked EQ is terrible when Mence and Dragonite are free to set up on it or Hydreigon can use it to nab a free sub on your switch.

Also, I'm infracting the next person to ask for a rename on the first set. Bulk doesn't mean defensive, and its highest stat is still its 376 Attack, which still packs one hell of a punch. The purpose of the set is to be a pivot for offensive teams that provides key resistances, lays down SR, and still hits like a champ when needed. Further discussion would be counterproductive.
 
Thanks for the update, SDS. You need to drop the Atk EVs on the offensive pivot.

QC Approved (2/3)
 
can't qc this until you add a bandorus set, no jokes.

banded landorus-t is an absolutely fantastic offensive pivot and just a monster in general. banded earthquake coming off a 145 base attack is an easy 2hko on 252/252 bold politoed, banded u-turn ohkos latios and deals a hefty chunk to latias, and stone edge is great coverage, creating the legendary edgequake combo. in the final moveslot, when landorus-t is about to go down, go out with a bang - yes, banded explosion. this wrecks anything that doesn't resist it/is a ghost-type. it even has a chance to ohko 252/252 bold slowbro after rocks, and is a guaranteed ohko after rocks and sand damage. that's crazy strong, and opens up plenty of room for great offensive partners such as terrakion to do work.

645-therian.gif
@ Choice Band
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- U-Turn
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Explosion

this set has a legitimate niche in the current metagame, and it's certainly worth the 10 minutes it'll take to add it to the op.

thanks for your time, will qc if you add that set or if you convince me it's not worth it.
 
Yes, agree with champ Lavos - a banded Ground mon may sound bad on paper, but you need to consider the fact that it has U-turn and powerful coverage in Stone Edge backed by its base 145 Atk.

I definitely think Superpower deserves a slash with Explosion - it provides amazing coverage alongside Stone Edge, and even Skarmory is taking 60% after 2 hits. Good for nailing Air Balloon Heatran and ballsy Blissey thinking it can stay in to Wish or whatever; Superpower takes out Ferrothorn with ~83% health rather than at 52% health with EQ.
 
I'd personally run some bulk and an Adamant nature on CB Lando-T, reinforcing its defensive prowess as well as its excellent Attack. I mean really, what's Lando-T outspeeding with Jolly max Speed that's of note? I reckon something like Adamant with enough to outspeed Adamant Dragonite is probably enough.
 
Well Jolly makes it faster than neutral Speed Haxorus, Hydreigon, Kyurem, and Genesect, which are big imo. Also definitely helps to be faster than the speedier Gliscors out there to Explode / Stone Edge before it sets up a Substitute, etc.
 
shrang said:
I'd personally run some bulk and an Adamant nature on CB Lando-T, reinforcing its defensive prowess as well as its excellent Attack. I mean really, what's Lando-T outspeeding with Jolly max Speed that's of note? I reckon something like Adamant with enough to outspeed Adamant Dragonite is probably enough.
Click to expand...

The power increase from Jolly from Adamant is very noticeable, however when I used Adamant CB Landorus-T I ran into a problem of finding the right zone between speed and bulk. There is one Poke above Adamant Dragonite that I really wanted CB Landorus to hit: 120 Spe Ninetales. Having the abillity to outspeed Ninteales makes Landorus-T that much more threatening to a Sun team. 196 Spd EV's are what is needed to outspeed Ninetales by 1 point (isn't this speed creep though?). If you need to, you could always take a very slight amount of EV's out of attack to go into HP or Defense, but I haven't found a necessary benchmark yet for missing a 2HKO with a certain amount of EV's (against Landorus-T itself or against a certain target).
 
I would personally never leave Landorus to fight a Ninetales, as people are probably going to be running max or close to max Speed anyway and roast you with Fire Blast. Plus, you can't endorse outpacing a specific spread in the analysis, so there'd have to be a defensive or offensive Pokemon hanging around that area for it to make any sense.

I think max Speed Adamant is fine for his speed tier, since a lot of Pokemon sit in that area, like Lucario, Toxicroak, Rotom-W, and Heatran and any bulk you add to it short of max HP won't make a discernible difference without leftovers. Intimidate should be all the bulk he needs to do his job.

In my opinion: Adamant second and Jolly first. He doesn't outspeed enough to justify that drop in power, and if you really need that speed, it's best to go to Landorus-I, who naturally outspeeds and checks everything Pocket just mentioned anyway.
 
I've been giving CB Landorus a go. It's not too bad, although I'm still not wholly sure it should be getting an analysis.

Life Orb Landorus is a much more potent offensive threat. There is absolutely no doubt about that. Having half the metagame immune to its most powerful move is not a good thing. However, Landorus-T does have a lot of defensive merit with intimidate and can spam U-turn far more effectively than with Life Orb. So even though I barely used Earthquake except against the two people I played that didn't have a single ground-immune Pokemon (I could scarcely believe it myself), it was still a good team player. Stone Edge is powerful, and things that are drawn in don't resist it, so it can't really be compared to the STAB move of a much weaker Pokemon.
 
I'm questioning whether the Sub variant deserves its own set. OK it has the pseudo-bulk to force switch and create a Sub. But Terrakion is faster and actually has a 2nd STAB. Also, 91 base Speed makes Lando slower than two-third of the metagame. Common weather core easily break Lando's sub and threatens to KO once it's gone: ScarfToed - Starmie - Keldeo, Ninetales - Chloromons - Infernape.

Thoughts?
 
on the choice band variant, slashing in superpower with explosion isn't a bad idea (nice job there, pocket)

and people are questioning jolly nature on bandorus-t, my bad for suggesting that in the first place, i thought adamant hit 279 speed but it's actually 281 so that makes perfect sense to use adamant for a huge power boost. so, the modified set:

645-therian.gif
@ Choice Band
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-Turn
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Explosion / Superpower

again, add this to the set list and i'll approve
 
Seven Deadly Sins said he will let somebody else write up Landorus-T - any takers???
 
Where's the Choice Band set? I thought a pretty convincing argument was put together in favor of it, and as one of the few people who's actually used this thing extensively, I can testify to its raw power and extreme versatility (for more, read my posts above). Not sure how this got passed through QC with its best set left hung out to dry.
 
lavos maybe you should make a separate set analysis like Scarf Keldeo. We just didn't want to hold Landorus-T hostage forever, just b/c of that one set.
 
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