I don't know what tier Regigigas should be in, I've never used it before.. Just 99% of the time whenever I see people talking about it, they're talking about trying to sweep with it. Which is wrong in my opinion, that's surely almost impossible to pull off in a real match. Regigigas should be used as a defensive/support Pokemon, not as a "somehow survive for 5 turns and then sweep" Pokemon like everyone seems to suggest.
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I don't know what tier Regigigas should be in, I've never used it before.. Just 99% of the time whenever I see people talking about it, they're talking about trying to sweep with it. Which is wrong in my opinion, that's surely almost impossible to pull off in a real match. Regigigas should be used as a defensive/support Pokemon, not as a "somehow survive for 5 turns and then sweep" Pokemon like everyone seems to suggest.
To get some better discussion going, I'd like to nominate Regirock for S Tier.
Regirock's posseses the best physical bulk in the game sporting an insane base 200 Defense stat and decent 80 Hp which allows him to tank every non-super effective physical attack. To go along with that he has decent Special bulk as well, and is no slouch in the Attacking department with Base 100 in both categories. Regirock can run multiple sets. An offensive tank set is viable capitalizing on his natural physical bulk while also taking advantage of his good Attack stat and strong moves such as Stone Edge, Drain Punch, and Ice Punch. A support set is also a good option using support moves such as Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave to help out the team, while also being a great check to Swellow and Eelektross. Rocky Helmet and Leftovers are both good items. The former racks up residual damage on the opponent after hitting Regi with a physical attack, while the latter gives him some form of recovery.
For these reasons, Regirock is great candidate for S tier and should be discussed.
Regirock's posseses the best physical bulk in the game sporting an insane base 200 Defense stat and decent 80 Hp which allows him to tank every non-super effective physical attack. To go along with that he has decent Special bulk as well, and is no slouch in the Attacking department with Base 100 in both categories. Regirock can run multiple sets. An offensive tank set is viable capitalizing on his natural physical bulk while also taking advantage of his good Attack stat and strong moves such as Stone Edge, Drain Punch, and Ice Punch. A support set is also a good option using support moves such as Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave to help out the team, while also being a great check to Swellow and Eelektross. Rocky Helmet and Leftovers are both good items. The former racks up residual damage on the opponent after hitting Regi with a physical attack, while the latter gives him some form of recovery.
For these reasons, Regirock is great candidate for S tier and should be discussed.
Since I am a big fan of stimulation, I'm going to start some discussion with somewhat controversial topic. Some people have asked for an S mon to be moved down to A (lol A-rank Zangoose....) nobody has made a real campaign at trying to push an A-rank Pokemon over to S. This is what I am here to do because the Pokemon I'm about to mention is excellent in the metagame and I think could be worth placing in the coveted S-rank. This will hopefully increase the amount of good posts in this thread and put some good discussion between the community. The Pokemon I am talking about here is Regirock. I think that Regirock should be placed in S-rank because of how much of an important role it plays in the metagame.
Every team needs a Flying- and Normal-type resist to last in NU and every team should incorporate Stealth Rock somewhere on their team. Regirock can do both while unlike others such as Golem doesn't just tank hits from the physical side. Regirock has AMAZING 80/200/100 defenses giving it almost unrivaled physical defense and special bulk challenging even that of Ludicolo. Regirock even has a nice base 100 Attack that allow to hit many Pokemon for good damage using its good coverage in Stone Edge, Drain Punch, and possibly Ice Punch. Regirock is the ultimate tank and can even use Thunder Wave to deal with bothersome Pokemon that would like to come in and check it with their powerful attacks. Pokemon such as Ludicolo and Samurott don't enjoy being paralyzed and their loss in Speed make it easier for an opponent to handle. Regirock is even capable of taking a Close Combat from Toxic Boost Zangoose without any investment in Defense and OHKOing back with Drain Punch, truly an amazing feat. Even by specializing in either Defense or Special Defense Regirock will not disappoint and always does its job spectacularly. What do you guys think about Regirock, and do you think it should be upgraded over to S-rank?
Every team needs a Flying- and Normal-type resist to last in NU and every team should incorporate Stealth Rock somewhere on their team. Regirock can do both while unlike others such as Golem doesn't just tank hits from the physical side. Regirock has AMAZING 80/200/100 defenses giving it almost unrivaled physical defense and special bulk challenging even that of Ludicolo. Regirock even has a nice base 100 Attack that allow to hit many Pokemon for good damage using its good coverage in Stone Edge, Drain Punch, and possibly Ice Punch. Regirock is the ultimate tank and can even use Thunder Wave to deal with bothersome Pokemon that would like to come in and check it with their powerful attacks. Pokemon such as Ludicolo and Samurott don't enjoy being paralyzed and their loss in Speed make it easier for an opponent to handle. Regirock is even capable of taking a Close Combat from Toxic Boost Zangoose without any investment in Defense and OHKOing back with Drain Punch, truly an amazing feat. Even by specializing in either Defense or Special Defense Regirock will not disappoint and always does its job spectacularly. What do you guys think about Regirock, and do you think it should be upgraded over to S-rank?
So, I have been playing with a very succesful team lately and I think certan mons should really change tier.
First off is drifblim, I've already talked about it before and it hasn't moved, but that thing should definately go A tier ! Acroblim sets up while simultaneously dealing huge damage to the opposing mon. Nearly everything that counters drifblim is extremely weakend by will-o-wisp and the thing can easily set up a sub thanks to it's great typing to force rock and steel types to come in and get burned. As if it wasn't enough, drifblim can also use it's 4th moveslot extremly well. Destiny bond will nearly always bring something down with it since he's so freaking fast after unburden activates while disable will completely shut down certan driblim counters letting it sweep freely.
Second thing is metang. I know this is considered a joke mon, but it's niche exists and you'd be surprised how much teams I have demolished with metang. Something few people have tried is using max att metang. At first, I thought it would be mediocre but man, it's amazing ! the thing is one of the most reliable mons in the game to set up stealth rocks and counters so many things only with max hp investment ! everyone thinks of zangoose and braviary at first, but metang also counters nearly every psychic type in the tier ! psycic types never run the necessary coverage to take down metang and with their pathetic defences, metang is shreading them to pieces in no time. Musharna, the main psychic type that can withstand the might of meteor mash is crippled by toxic since it has more pp than heal bell and psychic isn't doing shit even at +6. Earthquake will demolish anything immune to toxic while meteor mash is a pretty good stab move with a nice 20% chance to increase your att. I am very serious when I say I would put metang B tier, I know everyone won't agree with me so I'll just ask to put it C tier but I think anyone who plugs this in a good defensive core like I did will agree with me this mon is very underated.
First off is drifblim, I've already talked about it before and it hasn't moved, but that thing should definately go A tier ! Acroblim sets up while simultaneously dealing huge damage to the opposing mon. Nearly everything that counters drifblim is extremely weakend by will-o-wisp and the thing can easily set up a sub thanks to it's great typing to force rock and steel types to come in and get burned. As if it wasn't enough, drifblim can also use it's 4th moveslot extremly well. Destiny bond will nearly always bring something down with it since he's so freaking fast after unburden activates while disable will completely shut down certan driblim counters letting it sweep freely.
Second thing is metang. I know this is considered a joke mon, but it's niche exists and you'd be surprised how much teams I have demolished with metang. Something few people have tried is using max att metang. At first, I thought it would be mediocre but man, it's amazing ! the thing is one of the most reliable mons in the game to set up stealth rocks and counters so many things only with max hp investment ! everyone thinks of zangoose and braviary at first, but metang also counters nearly every psychic type in the tier ! psycic types never run the necessary coverage to take down metang and with their pathetic defences, metang is shreading them to pieces in no time. Musharna, the main psychic type that can withstand the might of meteor mash is crippled by toxic since it has more pp than heal bell and psychic isn't doing shit even at +6. Earthquake will demolish anything immune to toxic while meteor mash is a pretty good stab move with a nice 20% chance to increase your att. I am very serious when I say I would put metang B tier, I know everyone won't agree with me so I'll just ask to put it C tier but I think anyone who plugs this in a good defensive core like I did will agree with me this mon is very underated.
EBeast, I've been having a lot of mixed opinions of whether Regirock should be taking a A or S slot. I have finally come to the conclusion of agreeing that Regirock should be placed into the S ranking. There is absolutely nothing that competes with its job in-terms of reliabilities as a role of setting up Stealth Rock, becoming a great answer to most prominent Physical (and even certain Special Attackers such as Charizard, Zebstrika, or Regice thanks to its great round of Special Defense) attackers in the tier thanks to its very centralizing defensive typing, huge defense stats that allows it to take on and beat even Pokemon that would carry a coverage move to hit it super effectively, such as Cincinno, Braviary, Zangoose, Emboar, or even Absol, which are roles that any other defensive threat wished they had, and all in all, it bring its potential to an even higher level by becoming a phenomenal team player.
If its defensive capabilities weren't even enough, well, offensively, it is no slouch either. Regirock's really nice base 100 Attack can be utilized to exceptional use. With access to moves like Stone Edge, Earthquake, Drain Punch, Ice Punch, there is not even a single Pokemon in the tier that it can't potentially punish severely to who dare takes it lightly when it comes to attempting to check it/setup on it. To add to this even more, it is an excellent user of Thunder Wave, allowing it to paralyze a large amount of threats that would otherwise normally be able to take on Regirock pretty well, such as Ludicolo, Samurott, and the like. This allows its usefulness for the team to an even bigger impact, as offense teams can be dealt with so much easier if even a single key threat happens to be paralyzed.
All in honestly, there is no reason to not decide upon using Regirock, as it can well function on just about any team, and it has something in common in any of those teams within the fact that it will never disappoint you and will always exceed expectations. So yeah, I'll all for it into the S Rank.
If its defensive capabilities weren't even enough, well, offensively, it is no slouch either. Regirock's really nice base 100 Attack can be utilized to exceptional use. With access to moves like Stone Edge, Earthquake, Drain Punch, Ice Punch, there is not even a single Pokemon in the tier that it can't potentially punish severely to who dare takes it lightly when it comes to attempting to check it/setup on it. To add to this even more, it is an excellent user of Thunder Wave, allowing it to paralyze a large amount of threats that would otherwise normally be able to take on Regirock pretty well, such as Ludicolo, Samurott, and the like. This allows its usefulness for the team to an even bigger impact, as offense teams can be dealt with so much easier if even a single key threat happens to be paralyzed.
All in honestly, there is no reason to not decide upon using Regirock, as it can well function on just about any team, and it has something in common in any of those teams within the fact that it will never disappoint you and will always exceed expectations. So yeah, I'll all for it into the S Rank.
I agree with Regirock being S tier. It's such a reliable offensive tank. 80 / 200 / 100 bulk is absolutely astounding. Regirock can actually survive Choice Band Emboar's Superpower 42% of the time with only 252 HP EVs. It's incredibly hard to OHKO Regirock - even on the special side - and it also hits pretty hard as well.
I have two nominations of my own: Ampharos and Swellow to A tier.
Specially defensive Ampharos is a fantastic set that I have been using pretty often lately. It's a great cleric, pivot, dual screen setter, and paralysis spreader. Obviously it cannot do all of those jobs at the same time, but it can easily do 2-3 on one set. Ampharos has enough special bulk to avoid being 3HKO'd by a lot of NU threats. Very few special threats can 2HKO it. I would say Ampharos is the best dual screens user in the whole tier. It is reliable at setting them up, it does not have to give up that many important moves, and it can pivot out to another Pokemon with Volt Switch.
In addition to specially defensive Ampharos being a solid set itself, Ampharos is also pretty versatile and can use other sets such as Choice Specs and Agility. However, Ampharos is definitely not S tier material because the defensive sets are way too easy to ware down and have a bit of four moveslot syndrome. The offensive sets face competition from the other numerous offensive Electric-types in the tier, most of which are faster.
Swellow is a fantastic late-game sweeper. Swellow can blast through teams late-game with its blistering Speed. It is easily beaten by Rock- and Steel-types but all of them are very easy to wear down and will likely be defeated late-game. Early-game, Swellow can easily just U-turn into a wallbreaker that destroys Rock / Steel-types such as Choice Specs Exeggutor or Choice Band Emboar.
A tier is a good place for Swellow because it has trouble getting past Rock- and Steel-types and dies fast, but it is a solid sweeper otherwise.
I have two nominations of my own: Ampharos and Swellow to A tier.
Specially defensive Ampharos is a fantastic set that I have been using pretty often lately. It's a great cleric, pivot, dual screen setter, and paralysis spreader. Obviously it cannot do all of those jobs at the same time, but it can easily do 2-3 on one set. Ampharos has enough special bulk to avoid being 3HKO'd by a lot of NU threats. Very few special threats can 2HKO it. I would say Ampharos is the best dual screens user in the whole tier. It is reliable at setting them up, it does not have to give up that many important moves, and it can pivot out to another Pokemon with Volt Switch.
In addition to specially defensive Ampharos being a solid set itself, Ampharos is also pretty versatile and can use other sets such as Choice Specs and Agility. However, Ampharos is definitely not S tier material because the defensive sets are way too easy to ware down and have a bit of four moveslot syndrome. The offensive sets face competition from the other numerous offensive Electric-types in the tier, most of which are faster.
Swellow is a fantastic late-game sweeper. Swellow can blast through teams late-game with its blistering Speed. It is easily beaten by Rock- and Steel-types but all of them are very easy to wear down and will likely be defeated late-game. Early-game, Swellow can easily just U-turn into a wallbreaker that destroys Rock / Steel-types such as Choice Specs Exeggutor or Choice Band Emboar.
A tier is a good place for Swellow because it has trouble getting past Rock- and Steel-types and dies fast, but it is a solid sweeper otherwise.
I think A tier is a great place for Ampharos, its arguably the best or second best electric in the tier (Rotom-s) and can play a myriad of roles. Ampharos is one of the only Pokemon in the tier that cna be offensive, defensive, and supportive.
Viable Ampharos sets:
the list goes on and on, Ampharos can accomplish nearly anything. It isn't even limited by movepool as much as other Electric-types are; with access to Focus Blast, as well as standard electric-type moves, walling Ampharos is a challenge. i personally prefer to use Ampharos as a pivot, as with its high special attack it is actually quite hard to switch in to, and can volt switch around against any team without a Golurk. I've been petitioning to move Ampharos up for awhile now, and I really hope now is the time. It's a force to be reckoned with in this metagame.
also Serperior and Kadabra for C-tier. Both suck right now, I don't see a reason to use Serp when Amoonguss is around, and Kadabra is just a worse version of Mushy or Gardevoir. They arent atrocious but are not B tier worthy.
Viable Ampharos sets:
- Choice Specs
- Agility
- Specially defensive
- Physically defensive*
- Dual Screens
- LO Pivot
- Cleric
the list goes on and on, Ampharos can accomplish nearly anything. It isn't even limited by movepool as much as other Electric-types are; with access to Focus Blast, as well as standard electric-type moves, walling Ampharos is a challenge. i personally prefer to use Ampharos as a pivot, as with its high special attack it is actually quite hard to switch in to, and can volt switch around against any team without a Golurk. I've been petitioning to move Ampharos up for awhile now, and I really hope now is the time. It's a force to be reckoned with in this metagame.
also Serperior and Kadabra for C-tier. Both suck right now, I don't see a reason to use Serp when Amoonguss is around, and Kadabra is just a worse version of Mushy or Gardevoir. They arent atrocious but are not B tier worthy.
Make Ampharos third because Rotom-F is also in the building and is putting Ampharos 'under pressure' ;) [ice ice baby]
Actually my list of top Electric-type Pokemon would go like this: Rotom-F, Rotom-S, Eelektross, and Ampharos. While Ampharos is indeed very versatile with all of those sets listed Eelektross does indeed do its offensive roles better in Choice Specs and LO Pivot thanks to similar bulk and Eel having Levitate and better coverage thanks to Giga Drain and Flamethrower. Ampharos, in my opinion, HAS to use Specially Defensive or Dual Screens if it wants to stand out. Thankfully for Ampharos it actually does do these jobs very nicely. I don't mention Cleric because Specially Defensive and Dual Screens both fit Heal Bell in these with them using Thunderbolt / Toxic / Heal Bell / Volt Switch and Reflect / Light Screen / Heal Bell / Volt Switch, respectively. Both of these sets work very nicely and abuse everything that Ampharos has to its name. Due to this combination of unique moves, I think that Ampharos is capable of being in the same rank as Eelektross. While it is capable of being A-rank, I would personally put Ampharos in B-rank because its more of a Pokemon that a very specific role in a team rather than stick it on any team like other Electric-type Pokemon, though it does such a great job at it which is why it doesn't belong with other niche Pokemon in C-rank.
Im agreeing with DTC on the fact that Swellow should be A tier. I posted my thoughts earlier but no on saw:
Swellow:
Another mon that is great in this meta, requires similar support to Cincinno, and is one of the best cleaners in the tier. While its current B rank can be justified, i feel that Swellow is good enough to be in the A tier. Its sheer power has been evident in the tier for as long as it has been here, forcing most teams to run a Rock or Steel type just to counter it. This same situation is still true. Without a Bird/Normal resist, Swellow, with its boosted attack, Facade, and amazing speed can run through teams. Cinccino and Swellow require similar support in that the opponents team usually has only one counter for them, usually a Rock/Steel type. Pairing them with a Fighting type usually fixes this, killing off their rock/steel type counter, allowing them to sweep. Access to priority in Quick Attack, like Zangoose, allows it to pick off Scarf users that outspeed. Both Cinccino and Swellow have similar base stats, with Swellow having a higher base Speed that is incredibly useful for cleaning up the other team once Scarfers are removed. Despite this, residual damage from its orb is a pain to play with and it has a hard time switching in. However, I believe the positives heavily outweigh the negatives and Swellow is a top tier threat when played correctly.
For these reasons, i believe Swellow should move up to A rank.
Swellow:
Another mon that is great in this meta, requires similar support to Cincinno, and is one of the best cleaners in the tier. While its current B rank can be justified, i feel that Swellow is good enough to be in the A tier. Its sheer power has been evident in the tier for as long as it has been here, forcing most teams to run a Rock or Steel type just to counter it. This same situation is still true. Without a Bird/Normal resist, Swellow, with its boosted attack, Facade, and amazing speed can run through teams. Cinccino and Swellow require similar support in that the opponents team usually has only one counter for them, usually a Rock/Steel type. Pairing them with a Fighting type usually fixes this, killing off their rock/steel type counter, allowing them to sweep. Access to priority in Quick Attack, like Zangoose, allows it to pick off Scarf users that outspeed. Both Cinccino and Swellow have similar base stats, with Swellow having a higher base Speed that is incredibly useful for cleaning up the other team once Scarfers are removed. Despite this, residual damage from its orb is a pain to play with and it has a hard time switching in. However, I believe the positives heavily outweigh the negatives and Swellow is a top tier threat when played correctly.
For these reasons, i believe Swellow should move up to A rank.
^ I disagree.
Swellow is the quintessential glass cannon; it hits like a fucking meteor but it lacks any bulk and dies to even resisted attacks with a good bit of power behind them. It's weak to the most common entry hazard in the tier (Stealth Rock) and cannot break through any Steel-types and only beats some Rock-types if you're an idiot and you run Steel Wing. Rapid Spin support is difficult to use in the current metagame and the two top spinners (Armaldo and Torkoal) share a Rock-type weakness with Swellow. Furthermore, any decent player going up against a Swellow team will play their Swellow counter or check conservatively and use it to wall the hell out of it whenever Swellow comes in. Between constantly switching into Stealth Rock and the damage from poison or burn (not to mention Brave Bird recoil!) Swellow will end up killing itself more often than not. Oh yeah, did I mention the status damage? Because, y'know, Swellow kind of needs to suffer through that to use its vaunted power. Finally, unless all faster Scarfers and Priority abusers are weakened to the point that Swellow can pick them off with Quick Attack, Swellow can't sweep. All of these factors make it very easy to play around Swellow and let it kill itself or weaken it enough to pick it off. If Swellow had coverage comparable to Zangoose or even moves that could hit Steel-types neutrally, I'd say sure, go ahead and give it A-rank. As it is, I say it belongs in B.
EDIT: Sweet Jesus's post also reminded me of something. Swellow has only one set. It's highly predictable, and not like other sweepers in which you don't know what to expect out of them or whether they're one set or another. The extent of what Swellow can do to throw off prediction is "do I U-turn or use an attack?" for the most part. When you see a Swellow, you know what to do.
Swellow is the quintessential glass cannon; it hits like a fucking meteor but it lacks any bulk and dies to even resisted attacks with a good bit of power behind them. It's weak to the most common entry hazard in the tier (Stealth Rock) and cannot break through any Steel-types and only beats some Rock-types if you're an idiot and you run Steel Wing. Rapid Spin support is difficult to use in the current metagame and the two top spinners (Armaldo and Torkoal) share a Rock-type weakness with Swellow. Furthermore, any decent player going up against a Swellow team will play their Swellow counter or check conservatively and use it to wall the hell out of it whenever Swellow comes in. Between constantly switching into Stealth Rock and the damage from poison or burn (not to mention Brave Bird recoil!) Swellow will end up killing itself more often than not. Oh yeah, did I mention the status damage? Because, y'know, Swellow kind of needs to suffer through that to use its vaunted power. Finally, unless all faster Scarfers and Priority abusers are weakened to the point that Swellow can pick them off with Quick Attack, Swellow can't sweep. All of these factors make it very easy to play around Swellow and let it kill itself or weaken it enough to pick it off. If Swellow had coverage comparable to Zangoose or even moves that could hit Steel-types neutrally, I'd say sure, go ahead and give it A-rank. As it is, I say it belongs in B.
EDIT: Sweet Jesus's post also reminded me of something. Swellow has only one set. It's highly predictable, and not like other sweepers in which you don't know what to expect out of them or whether they're one set or another. The extent of what Swellow can do to throw off prediction is "do I U-turn or use an attack?" for the most part. When you see a Swellow, you know what to do.
I have to agree with EonADS, swellow is too easy to counter to be A, EonADS has listed the most of the reasons but it wasn't even mentioned swellow also needs a free turn to actually get toxic orb activated. Add this to the fact he's weak to SR, has no bulk to take any priority outside of the unnexistant shadow sneak, is completely countered by every rock and steel types (something any decent team runs in NU) and the fact it's put on a timer and you really don't have a A tier mon. Even most common non-rock/steel walls will usualy counter swellow since even alomomola just needs to poke it with a waterfall to get it's health bar too low to come back on SR. Even the common bulky grass types that don't counter him will often get in some huge bb recoil usualy not letting swellow kill any other poke.
DRIFBLIM HOWEVER, is not set on a timer, is immune to quick attack, mach punch and extreemspeed, outspeeds every scarfer after unburden activates, can will-o-wisp incoming rocks to come back later and sweep better, is less predictable, has a certan bulk and nice immunities and resistances, has space for substitute in his moveset and will often bring down a poke with him if he fails to sweep thanks to destinybond.
Sure it doesn't have the might or the instant speed of swellow and has more trouble against unscarfed electrics than him, but that's not much compared to the huge lists of advantages he has over swellow. Drifblim for A plz
DRIFBLIM HOWEVER, is not set on a timer, is immune to quick attack, mach punch and extreemspeed, outspeeds every scarfer after unburden activates, can will-o-wisp incoming rocks to come back later and sweep better, is less predictable, has a certan bulk and nice immunities and resistances, has space for substitute in his moveset and will often bring down a poke with him if he fails to sweep thanks to destinybond.
Sure it doesn't have the might or the instant speed of swellow and has more trouble against unscarfed electrics than him, but that's not much compared to the huge lists of advantages he has over swellow. Drifblim for A plz
the biggest problem with drifblim is that it's main set usually uses only acrobatics as its main move. this makes it vulnerable to electric-types as well as other traditional bird checks. unburden's effect is removed once you switch out so you the chances where you can use acrobatics are limited. on top of that, acrobatics doesn't really have the killer power that a guts boosted facade has. if swellow doesn't deserve an a rank then drifblim shouldn't either.
Lampent for C.
Sub + 3 Attacks Lampent is actually a damn good Pokemon if you can remove stuff like Cinccino. It'll typically net you at least one kill per match, and it's great at beating down Alomomoonguss teams thanks to the combination of Fire Blast and Energy Ball. Despite its low Speed, Lampent can actually outspeed a fair number of Pokemon in NU, most notably Golurk (given the right investment) and Regirock (regardless unless somebody's being idiotic and using RP Regirock). If these Pokemon switch into Sub thinking they can KO, they end up taking either a 2HKO or heavy damage (in fact, after 2 layers of Spikes, Regirock still takes a 2HKO from Modest Energy Ball iirc). It gets even stronger if you use Life Orb over Eviolite, with Golurk taking an OHKO from Shadow Ball with any prior damage while Regirock is cleanly 2HKO'd by Energy Ball. Lampent can also play the role of a potent Trick Room abuser and it's also good with SubSplit if you don't mind the slightly reduced coverage. The Specially Defensive set is somewhat lacking, though. Lampent chooses between bulk and power for the most part, and taking any path (full power, mix of both, full bulk) has its inherent disadvantages. Also, honestly speaking, Lampent isn't the most usable Pokemon out there. You can't slap it onto a team and expect it to be successful; you absolutely have to build the team either around it or with it in mind.
Also agreeing with FLCL on Drifblim. It simply lacks the threat potential I'd need to consider it A-rank. It either needs a lot of setup (SubCM) or it hits decently and annoys greatly, but lacks in long-term usability (AcroBlimp). Don't get me wrong, it's a great Pokemon, but I don't think it's worth A-rank.
Sub + 3 Attacks Lampent is actually a damn good Pokemon if you can remove stuff like Cinccino. It'll typically net you at least one kill per match, and it's great at beating down Alomomoonguss teams thanks to the combination of Fire Blast and Energy Ball. Despite its low Speed, Lampent can actually outspeed a fair number of Pokemon in NU, most notably Golurk (given the right investment) and Regirock (regardless unless somebody's being idiotic and using RP Regirock). If these Pokemon switch into Sub thinking they can KO, they end up taking either a 2HKO or heavy damage (in fact, after 2 layers of Spikes, Regirock still takes a 2HKO from Modest Energy Ball iirc). It gets even stronger if you use Life Orb over Eviolite, with Golurk taking an OHKO from Shadow Ball with any prior damage while Regirock is cleanly 2HKO'd by Energy Ball. Lampent can also play the role of a potent Trick Room abuser and it's also good with SubSplit if you don't mind the slightly reduced coverage. The Specially Defensive set is somewhat lacking, though. Lampent chooses between bulk and power for the most part, and taking any path (full power, mix of both, full bulk) has its inherent disadvantages. Also, honestly speaking, Lampent isn't the most usable Pokemon out there. You can't slap it onto a team and expect it to be successful; you absolutely have to build the team either around it or with it in mind.
Also agreeing with FLCL on Drifblim. It simply lacks the threat potential I'd need to consider it A-rank. It either needs a lot of setup (SubCM) or it hits decently and annoys greatly, but lacks in long-term usability (AcroBlimp). Don't get me wrong, it's a great Pokemon, but I don't think it's worth A-rank.
I took a look at the list and I noticed that Dodrio was not listed on any rank higher than E, which means that Dodrio is in E-Rank. I think this is not right, Dodrio has some nice sweeping skills and I think it deserves at least a B-Rank!
Dodrio @ Choice Band
Trait: Tangled Feet
Jolly Nature
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Thrash | Brave Bird | Quick Attack | Pursuit
Dodrio is a pokemon with a terrible movepool; it's only useful moves on a CB Set are Thrash and Brave Bird. Thrash being his main sweeping move, his ability completely fits with the confusion effect of Thrash. It's evasion is doubled by the confusion, and while the foe has a chance to miss his attacks, he might get another lucky Thrash or Brave Bird unleashed. There are some counters against Dodrio, mainly being Cinccino. It simply sweeps it with a Rock Blast, so Dodrio is forced to switch out when facing a Cinccino, unless Dodrio isn't the main momentum of the team. Dodrio is able to sweep quite some threats in the NU metagame, and so here are some calcs I made (more to follow):
252 Atk Jolly Dodrio Choice Banded Thrash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Timid Ludicolo = 115,56% - 136,42%, Guaranteed OHKO.
252 Atk Jolly Dodrio Choice Banded Thrash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jolly Zangoose = 137,28% - 162,02%, Guaranteed OHKO. Zangoose wouldn't even be able to open his mouth and he gets swept - unless he Quick Attacks, of which Dodrio can tank one at full health.
252 Atk Jolly Dodrio Choice Banded Thrash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Timid Samurott = 90,03% - 106,34%, 37,5% chance OHKO, Guaranteed 2HKO.
252 Atk Jolly Dodrio Choice Banded Thrash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jolly Cinccino = 135,4% - 159,79%, Guaranteed OHKO - I know that Cinccino KO's Dodrio before he can attack, but I did the calc anyways for when Cinccino comes on the switch!
252 Atk Jolly Dodrio Choice Banded Thrash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bold Musharna = 62,16% - 73,62%, Guaranteed 2HKO.
252 Atk Jolly Dodrio Choice Banded Thrash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jolly Braviary = 96,78% - 114,33%, 81,25% OHKO with no Bulk Up, Guaranteed 2HKO at +1 and 0.
252 Atk Jolly Dodrio Choice Banded Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Amoonguss = 109,03% - 128,47%, Guaranteed OHKO.
252 Atk Jolly Dodrio Choice Banded Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Adamant Emboar = 127,36% - 150%, Guaranteed OHKO, be careful with scarfers though, they outspeed and OHKO back!
I'm running out of time right now, i'll add more calcs later!
I am quite amazed by this pokemons power, i've tried it more times on different teams and if you play carefully with him as your momentum, there should be some Dodrio sweeps coming up!
Dodrio is just too good to be in E-Rank, It has a reasonable speed and a above average attack stat, and therefore I think that Dodrio should be in at least B-Rank.
I'd like to here your opinions :)!
Dodrio @ Choice Band
Trait: Tangled Feet
Jolly Nature
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Thrash | Brave Bird | Quick Attack | Pursuit
Dodrio is a pokemon with a terrible movepool; it's only useful moves on a CB Set are Thrash and Brave Bird. Thrash being his main sweeping move, his ability completely fits with the confusion effect of Thrash. It's evasion is doubled by the confusion, and while the foe has a chance to miss his attacks, he might get another lucky Thrash or Brave Bird unleashed. There are some counters against Dodrio, mainly being Cinccino. It simply sweeps it with a Rock Blast, so Dodrio is forced to switch out when facing a Cinccino, unless Dodrio isn't the main momentum of the team. Dodrio is able to sweep quite some threats in the NU metagame, and so here are some calcs I made (more to follow):
252 Atk Jolly Dodrio Choice Banded Thrash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Timid Ludicolo = 115,56% - 136,42%, Guaranteed OHKO.
252 Atk Jolly Dodrio Choice Banded Thrash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jolly Zangoose = 137,28% - 162,02%, Guaranteed OHKO. Zangoose wouldn't even be able to open his mouth and he gets swept - unless he Quick Attacks, of which Dodrio can tank one at full health.
252 Atk Jolly Dodrio Choice Banded Thrash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Timid Samurott = 90,03% - 106,34%, 37,5% chance OHKO, Guaranteed 2HKO.
252 Atk Jolly Dodrio Choice Banded Thrash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jolly Cinccino = 135,4% - 159,79%, Guaranteed OHKO - I know that Cinccino KO's Dodrio before he can attack, but I did the calc anyways for when Cinccino comes on the switch!
252 Atk Jolly Dodrio Choice Banded Thrash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bold Musharna = 62,16% - 73,62%, Guaranteed 2HKO.
252 Atk Jolly Dodrio Choice Banded Thrash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jolly Braviary = 96,78% - 114,33%, 81,25% OHKO with no Bulk Up, Guaranteed 2HKO at +1 and 0.
252 Atk Jolly Dodrio Choice Banded Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Amoonguss = 109,03% - 128,47%, Guaranteed OHKO.
252 Atk Jolly Dodrio Choice Banded Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Adamant Emboar = 127,36% - 150%, Guaranteed OHKO, be careful with scarfers though, they outspeed and OHKO back!
I'm running out of time right now, i'll add more calcs later!
I am quite amazed by this pokemons power, i've tried it more times on different teams and if you play carefully with him as your momentum, there should be some Dodrio sweeps coming up!
Dodrio is just too good to be in E-Rank, It has a reasonable speed and a above average attack stat, and therefore I think that Dodrio should be in at least B-Rank.
I'd like to here your opinions :)!
I was told to follow this up, so I will be saying my thoughts of Ampharos and Swellow.
I already said my above post I think Ampharos in B-rank would be a good fit.
As for Swellow I think that would be a bit harder to place. Swellow is heavily crippled by the fact that almost every team has a Rock-type Pokemon who can not only wall Swellow, but also set up Stealth Rock that cripple it everytime it comes in. This along with Swellow's Status Orb and how simple it is to force it up makes it not last very much. Swellow is pretty much relegated as a cleaner as its survivability is drastically shorter than most Pokemon. Even other Status abusers such as Zangoose or Ursaring can survive longer due to not having an SR weakness and having access to moves that prevent Rock or Rock/Steel type Pokemon from forcing it out.
Even if Swellow can just U-turn out of its counters, every time it does so it takes 25% from Stealth Rock. Once Rock- and Steel-type Pokemon have been gotten rid of Swellow still isn't having the easiest time going through teams. With Stealth Rock being up Swellow comes into the match at 75% without its Status Orb activated. That turn that it's out it either has to hope the opponent has something it can pick off with a weak Brave Bird or has to use a slot to use Protect. Once it has successfully activated its Orb it's still not free to run train as teams with priority (pretty much every team has a priority Pokemon) will be able to easily deal great damage to the frail Swellow. The S-rank Bird Braviary still has to deal with Stealth Rock, but not Rock- or Steel-types due to its access to Superpower which makes a huge difference in its evaluation. Swellow is good, but I don't think its A-rank good. I would say Swellow is good where it stands in B-rank.
I already said my above post I think Ampharos in B-rank would be a good fit.
As for Swellow I think that would be a bit harder to place. Swellow is heavily crippled by the fact that almost every team has a Rock-type Pokemon who can not only wall Swellow, but also set up Stealth Rock that cripple it everytime it comes in. This along with Swellow's Status Orb and how simple it is to force it up makes it not last very much. Swellow is pretty much relegated as a cleaner as its survivability is drastically shorter than most Pokemon. Even other Status abusers such as Zangoose or Ursaring can survive longer due to not having an SR weakness and having access to moves that prevent Rock or Rock/Steel type Pokemon from forcing it out.
Even if Swellow can just U-turn out of its counters, every time it does so it takes 25% from Stealth Rock. Once Rock- and Steel-type Pokemon have been gotten rid of Swellow still isn't having the easiest time going through teams. With Stealth Rock being up Swellow comes into the match at 75% without its Status Orb activated. That turn that it's out it either has to hope the opponent has something it can pick off with a weak Brave Bird or has to use a slot to use Protect. Once it has successfully activated its Orb it's still not free to run train as teams with priority (pretty much every team has a priority Pokemon) will be able to easily deal great damage to the frail Swellow. The S-rank Bird Braviary still has to deal with Stealth Rock, but not Rock- or Steel-types due to its access to Superpower which makes a huge difference in its evaluation. Swellow is good, but I don't think its A-rank good. I would say Swellow is good where it stands in B-rank.
Dodrio is really not worth using when Braviary is in the tier. Braviary is stronger, bulkier, has Superpower to hit Rock- and Steel-types, and other useful moves like Roost and Bulk Up. The only things Dodrio has over Braviary is higher Speed, Quick Attack, and Pursuit. I think D rank would be a good placement for our fellow kacaw.
Also, what are you trying to prove with those calcs? None of them are relevant besides the Musharna one. And most Musharna are physically defensive these days.
Also, what are you trying to prove with those calcs? None of them are relevant besides the Musharna one. And most Musharna are physically defensive these days.
Simisear for C rank.
Fire attacks are pretty deadly in NU, and there are surprisingly few that are effective. There is Charizard, Magmar, Torkoal, Emboar, and Camerupt that are capable of attacking from the special side. What makes Simisear different? Nasty Plot. Nasty Plot is what makes Simisear usable, and it is definitely not bad in this metagame. I could go on a long tangent about what makes Simisear good, but it isn't that great, it is simply better than D tier. LO Simisear is pretty strong, its pretty fast, and it can boost if given the chance. It has nasty plot and less stealth rock weakness as a niche over Charizard, which is handy on teams that can't use a spinner, since SMASHKOAL is the only one worth using.
Also, why is Serperior in B? It sucks right now, Amoonguss owns it so much. This meta really isnt kind to it, everything seems to walk over it. I've been trying it lately and if the opposition has Amoonguss its basically dead weight, and even without Amoonguss its hard to do a lot for it. I think C tier for Serperior works as well.
Fire attacks are pretty deadly in NU, and there are surprisingly few that are effective. There is Charizard, Magmar, Torkoal, Emboar, and Camerupt that are capable of attacking from the special side. What makes Simisear different? Nasty Plot. Nasty Plot is what makes Simisear usable, and it is definitely not bad in this metagame. I could go on a long tangent about what makes Simisear good, but it isn't that great, it is simply better than D tier. LO Simisear is pretty strong, its pretty fast, and it can boost if given the chance. It has nasty plot and less stealth rock weakness as a niche over Charizard, which is handy on teams that can't use a spinner, since SMASHKOAL is the only one worth using.
Also, why is Serperior in B? It sucks right now, Amoonguss owns it so much. This meta really isnt kind to it, everything seems to walk over it. I've been trying it lately and if the opposition has Amoonguss its basically dead weight, and even without Amoonguss its hard to do a lot for it. I think C tier for Serperior works as well.
After talking with this with Agendell I can say that I actually think Serperior is just fine where it is in in B-rank for a similar reason that I had said that Swellow should be in B-rank. While both get walled by particular things (Rock- and Steel-type mons for Swellow & Amoonguss for Serperior) once they are gone both can easily wreak through teams. Serperior is actually better off than Swellow in a way since Amoonguss is not on every single team unlike Rock-type Pokemon are for Swellow. Even Amoonguss is not completely beating what is, in my opinion, Serperior's best set in SubCalm Mind. After a Calm Mind Serperior can 2HKO the standard physically defensive Amoonguss while its Sludge Bomb doesn't even do 50%. Serperior can also support its team very nicely with a Dual Screens set with utility in Taunt as it beats most Stealth Rock users and can freely stop them, set up Reflect or Light Screen, or hit them with Giga Drain.
Serperior has great bulk to take advantage of Calm Mind and Dual Screens and excellent base 113 Speed that makes its execution pretty impressive as well. SubCM set abuses Serp's awesome defenses while taking advantage of Overgrow and Giga Drain to provide some pretty reliable recovery. While its offenses aren't the best, having STAB Giga Drain makes Life Orb a great item even on a Substitute set and the extra 30% added power makes a huge difference when Serperior is being used. Without Magmortar in the tier it can use Hidden Power Ice over Rock as it only really misses out on Articuno and Torkoal. It does have a few problems with a some Pokemon that requires some support but this is the reason why it's a perfect fit in B-rank.
- 244 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Ice vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Amoonguss: 57.41% - 67.59% (2 hits to KO)
- 0 SpAtk Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs 32 HP/0 +1 SpDef Serperior: 39.13% - 47.16% (3 hits to KO)
The above calcs were using a 32 HP / 244 SpA / 232 Spe Timid set that AgentDell and I came up with that outspeeds positive nature Base 110 Pokemon such as Tauros and Jumpluff and has 32 HP EVs for some added bulk as well as giving Serperior 299 HP, a Life Orb number.
Thanks for your input on Serperior, ebeast! Well distributed. You covered a lot that would definitely stand out to Serperior's incredible versatility, with a great stat distribution to back it up, so I will support the idea of it staying to B ranking, and possibly better. I just would like to nitpick on Serperior's Calm Mind set that Taunt over Substitute is also perfectly viable, since it sets up just as well as the Substitute Calm Mind set, and will essentially allow it to win any Calm Mind war, with the possible exception of Swoobat, who is naturally faster and thus will out-boost Serperior.
I would like to have a nomination of a Pokemon: Absol to S-rank.
Absol naturally poses a huge top tier threat towards a very large portion of the metagame, simply because of its massive Attack stat, phenomenal coverage, and access into an extremely powerful priority within STAB Sucker Punch. All of these qualities alone allows it to easily break down and pose as a huge threat to offensive and defensive teams alike, and what makes things more proficent in Absol's massive potential is that it's incredibly hard to stop its offensive onslaught because of its incredible offensive versatility/utility, the ability to outright come out on top of possible defensive checks to it thanks to its unusually high critical hit ratio with Super Luck, and very few reliable checks to Absol naturally. All of this takes apart of why it can effectively pose as a threat to ANY team.
While Absol does naturally require a substantial amount of prediction in general, to be quite fair, that also would apply to a lot of the Pokemon that are currently ranked into the S tier. What relates Absol to those select Pokemon is that when utilized under the proper means of prediction, it will carry on an extreme amount of rewards within the user because of its very strong qualities alone. Its checks, being quite few and far between, can be quite worn down as well. Likewise for Zangoose in a sense, you can switch around fearing a possible Sucker Punch, but eventually you're going to get out-predicted and worn down throughout the match, and mispredicting against Absol will result to a large disadvantage.
The ease of which Absol would manage to tramp through a team is nearly unmatched, simply because of its offensive versatility among its variety of options towards a ton of teams as a whole. With proper use and prediction, Absol can consistently shred through teams without much support, which is why I think it should upgrade to the S-rank.
I would like to have a nomination of a Pokemon: Absol to S-rank.
Absol naturally poses a huge top tier threat towards a very large portion of the metagame, simply because of its massive Attack stat, phenomenal coverage, and access into an extremely powerful priority within STAB Sucker Punch. All of these qualities alone allows it to easily break down and pose as a huge threat to offensive and defensive teams alike, and what makes things more proficent in Absol's massive potential is that it's incredibly hard to stop its offensive onslaught because of its incredible offensive versatility/utility, the ability to outright come out on top of possible defensive checks to it thanks to its unusually high critical hit ratio with Super Luck, and very few reliable checks to Absol naturally. All of this takes apart of why it can effectively pose as a threat to ANY team.
While Absol does naturally require a substantial amount of prediction in general, to be quite fair, that also would apply to a lot of the Pokemon that are currently ranked into the S tier. What relates Absol to those select Pokemon is that when utilized under the proper means of prediction, it will carry on an extreme amount of rewards within the user because of its very strong qualities alone. Its checks, being quite few and far between, can be quite worn down as well. Likewise for Zangoose in a sense, you can switch around fearing a possible Sucker Punch, but eventually you're going to get out-predicted and worn down throughout the match, and mispredicting against Absol will result to a large disadvantage.
The ease of which Absol would manage to tramp through a team is nearly unmatched, simply because of its offensive versatility among its variety of options towards a ton of teams as a whole. With proper use and prediction, Absol can consistently shred through teams without much support, which is why I think it should upgrade to the S-rank.
Absol actually has only one solid counter in the whole tier, Alomomola, which can be muscled through if it manages to land a critical hit with Night Slash. Psycho Cut is an extremely underrated move on it which allows Absol to 2HKO common switch ins such as Amoonguss and Gurdurr, although it will take a huge chunk from Mach Punch. It is definitely worthy of S-rank since it is able to stop so many fast sweepers and smash through the many Psychic-types that dominate the tier.
I agree with abSol. Other than sweeping, it provides a lot of utility with a hard-hitting priority nearly OHKOing threats such as Ludicolo and Cinccino while also Pursuit trapping Psychic and Ghost-types. A Jolly nature allows it to outspeed many offensive threats such as Samurott and slower. However, prediction is key to using Absol since a mistake can cause a loss while the right play will swing the game into your favor easily. Unlike Skuntank, Absol cannot easily switchin to Psychic-types but once you get a free switchin, Absol will definitely do more work than Skuntank would. Although it has only one main set, it has a multitude of options such as Swords Dance, Psycho Cut, and even Fire Blast to dent Tangela (the king) which let Absol sweep and wallbreak with more ease, or 2HKO its "counters" with ease, respectively.
I'd vote for dragonair moving from D to C rank, It's main set is just as effective as shelgon's if not more. With it's new marvel scale ability, dragonair can take some important hits on the defensive side when sleeping while still investing in sp.d. After 2 dragon dances you'll nearly always be able to rest and while sleep talk is unreliable, dragonair's good typing and bulk will often let you take the 2 hits and sleep talk lets you use outrage without locking yourself into it. Dragonair is definately one of the easiest pokemon to set up in NU and isn't that easy to stop considering everything that resists outrage can really do anything to him bar SD mawile and roar bastiodon who just postpones the sweep.
Dragonair is also one of the rare mons to be able to come in on pretty much everything that can volt switch since hp ice isn't doing that much. Most other mons that can take electric moves can't take eelektross's giga drain or flamethrower.
Dragonair is also one of the rare mons to be able to come in on pretty much everything that can volt switch since hp ice isn't doing that much. Most other mons that can take electric moves can't take eelektross's giga drain or flamethrower.
- Status