The difference between Flareon and things like Scrafty is that they have the typing and bulk to take hits. Flareon does not. They are also better attackers than Flareon as they can actually use their best offenses.For some reason, I thought Superpower was in Driftveil. Being slow isn't terrible, though. 60 base speed isn't terrible; Magnezone, Sandslash, Gothitelle, and Scrafty all have the same base speed or lower (not entirely sure on Slash and Zone, but sure on 'telle and Scrafty), and it wasn't a huge problem. The problem is bulk. Flareon has decent Special bulk, and trash physical bulk.
If we do like you say, then Sandslash would be in Low because it's outclassed by every other Ground type in the game bar the obvious. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Low is for things that need significant help to get through the game or aren't efficient. Adaptability Eevee is actually quite good, and Flash Fire is incredibly useful for switching in on things that it normally couldn't beat. 130 Base Attack is really freaking good, so the low power on Fire Fang isn't a problem for the most part.
You seem to have missed the Base 95 Special Attack stat as well, which is quite good. It gets Lava Plume, which has a good burn chance, and when that gets weak, it gets Flamethrower. As for Superpower, I always pictured it and used it like Close Combat. They're virtually the same for Flareon, so I don't see what the problem with having a gigantic hit land and switching out. You do the same with Close Combat, because the two stat drops are painful. I'll also mention that Giga Impact hits incredibly hard with Flareon, and its one of the better users of Giga Impact in the game, thanks to its 130 Base Attack.
I'd like to hear someone else's argument on whether Flare should be Low Tier or not. I am considering it, based on the fact that Superpower is found a lot later than I remembered it being found.
I'd like to hear how earlygame Gothita fairs, since I got mine as a Gothorita in the Strange House. I believe that Gothitelle is easily mid tier thanks to having better speed and better bulk than Reunicles (and not having to throw Quick Claw on it to have it outspeed stuff) but lower SpAtk.
Repel says hi to your last paragraph. But yeah, I definitely see it in Low now.The difference between Flareon and things like Scrafty is that they have the typing and bulk to take hits. Flareon does not. They are also better attackers than Flareon as they can actually use their best offenses.
Also, 65/110 isn't even that bulky on the special side, because 65 base HP is.. low. If you want a bulky Eeveelution on the special side, Vaporeon is better, and can actually do more damage too.
Sandslash isn't actually outclassed by every Ground-type.
It's stronger than the Onix line.
It's physically bulkier than the Trapinch line [And useful quicker]
It doesn't come with the weaknesses the Steel type brings that Excadrill has to suffer, but this one is the only real case of outclassing, but oh look, Drilbur is Top.
It is tankier and doesn't have the dark type downsides that the Sandile line has.
The Numel line isn't even comparable, and Piloswine comes *really* late and has the Ice type weaknesses.
You can make an argument for using Sandslash over every Ground-type except maybe Excadrill. It's not completely outclassed.
Give me one reason to use Flareon over the Growlithe line or the Darumaka line. There isn't one. Everything Flareon does is done better by them.
That's why Flareon should be low, and a tier below Growlithe.
Although, to be honest, I wouldn't object to Sandslash being in Low anyway.
Also, Eevee is a 5% encounter rate, in a side area. It took me over an hour to find an Eevee for my current run's Umbreon. And then, you have to factor in it's pretty low catch rate [45], and the fact it might have Run Away instead of Adaptabilty, making the encounter rate of an Adaptability Eevee technically 2.5%.
Steelix also has coverage in the Four Fangs (Crunch, Thunder Fang, Fire Fang, Ice Fang) and gigantic defense. Not to mention it gets Curse, iirc.Sandslash is outclassed. Second type does provide another good STAB not only weaknesses. Sandslash is not good
Sandslash gets an early evolution (evolving 10-15 levels before everything else) and then gets Swords Dance at Level 38. For some reason the majority of people here dismiss Swords Dance, which is just bizarre to me. Very few things survive a STAB attack after a Swords Dance (no matter what the Pokemon), meaning it can easily sweep after just one turn of setup. Then there's double standards going on, with Coil and Quiver Dance being cited as good moves.Sandslash is outclassed. Second type does provide another good STAB not only weaknesses. Sandslash is not good
The three elemental fangs have terrible BP. They're essentially redundant, as they'll barely outdamage STAB Iron Head.Steelix also has coverage in the Four Fangs (Crunch, Thunder Fang, Fire Fang, Ice Fang) and gigantic defense. Not to mention it gets Curse, iirc.
There are plenty of things that RESIST Iron Head, which is where Crunch will come in handy. And Excadicks gets SD by level up as well. Again, outclassed by Excadrill.Sandslash gets an early evolution (evolving 10-15 levels before everything else) and then gets Swords Dance at Level 38. For some reason the majority of people here dismiss Swords Dance, which is just bizarre to me. Very few things survive a STAB attack after a Swords Dance (no matter what the Pokemon), meaning it can easily sweep after just one turn of setup. Then there's double standards going on, with Coil and Quiver Dance being cited as good moves.
The three elemental fangs have terrible BP. They're essentially redundant, as they'll barely outdamage STAB Iron Head.
Crunch is worth it (80 BP), but the elemental fangs really aren't.There are plenty of things that RESIST Iron Head, which is where Crunch will come in handy. And Excadicks gets SD by level up as well. Again, outclassed by Excadrill.
Krook has Moxie, which may as well function as SD, and Dark is an excellent typing to play with. You brought him up as well.Crunch is worth it (80 BP), but the elemental fangs really aren't.
Also, who cares if it's outclassed by Excadrill? I thought we were talking about it in comparison to other ground Pokemon like Trapinch and Steelix?
what are you babbling aboutThere are plenty of things that RESIST Iron Head, which is where Crunch will come in handy. And Excadicks gets SD by level up as well. Again, outclassed by Excadrill.
Agree on Sandshrew's speed. IMO, that keeps it from high.what are you babbling about
Steel is only resisted by 4 types (Electric, Fire, Water, Steel), three of which are also hit super-effectively by ground. The only one that isn't is Water, but why are you keeping Steelix/Excadrill in on Water-types is beyond me.
There are not plenty of things that resist iron head, it's a reliable STAB for Steelix along with Bulldoze or Dig.
while Excadrill does get SD by level up, along with Sandslash, it doesn't automatically make sandslash bad. Sandslash's speed issues are temporarily taken care of midgame by Bulldoze, acceptable filler until EQ.
As for SD Sandslash, imo Sandslash's biggest problem is his speed, compared to Quiver Dance and Coil, where Lilligant and Serperior are fast enough for ingame purposes, not to mention the former boosting speed as well. Sandshrew's early evolution makes it one of the best Pokemon against Elesa, being able to tank her physical attacks with his good defense while being completely immune specially. This essentially allows it to function as a nuke midgame, until your other guys catch up (especially Excadrill).
Woah, huge error on my part there. I hadn't considered how much synergy Steel and Ground had with each other, and that made me sound like an idiot. Thanks for calling me out on that.what are you babbling about
Steel is only resisted by 4 types (Electric, Fire, Water, Steel), three of which are also hit super-effectively by ground. The only one that isn't is Water, but why are you keeping Steelix/Excadrill in on Water-types is beyond me.
There are not plenty of things that resist iron head, it's a reliable STAB for Steelix along with Bulldoze or Dig.
while Excadrill does get SD by level up, along with Sandslash, it doesn't automatically make sandslash bad. Sandslash's speed issues are temporarily taken care of midgame by Bulldoze, acceptable filler until EQ.
As for SD Sandslash, imo Sandslash's biggest problem is his speed, compared to Quiver Dance and Coil, where Lilligant and Serperior are fast enough for ingame purposes, not to mention the former boosting speed as well. Sandshrew's early evolution makes it one of the best Pokemon against Elesa, being able to tank her physical attacks with his good defense while being completely immune specially. This essentially allows it to function as a nuke midgame, until your other guys catch up (especially Excadrill).
None of what you mentioned is really indicative of high tier.Is this the pokemon themselves or their evolution families? There are only basic/baby pokemon on the list and Azurill is far from high.
Anyway, my suggestion:
- High tier
Psyduck available from Floccessy ranch, with a 10% chance to encounter it, the same as patrat and mareep, and higher than riolu and pidove. The reason I have him as a high tier, is that unlike azurill he is sp attack based, making surf more effective in-battle. It can also learn good coverage in the various psychic type attacks, and shadow claw, since ghost types aren't common. (And the ones that are aren't very useful with the exception of drifblim.) Psyduck also has very good stats for an early-on NFE pokemon. It learns water pulse as early on as 18 in this game, which is actually pretty powerful! An ideal set would be: Surf (an HM)
Psychic (good coverage)
Shadow claw (great coverage)
and then another move, possibly waterfall/dive for an extra HM, due to it's not too shabby attack.
Psyduck can also be an HM slave:
Surf
Waterfall
Dive
Strength
This is why I proclaim it to be high tier!
As much as I hate to contridict myself (I probably do it often and not notice, though...) I have to say that Psyduck is nowhere near high itself. Its stats are mediocre and it has two terrible abilities for in-game (When are you gonna use Damp exactly, and Cloud Nine just hinders it if it wants to use Rain Dance). It also takes forever to learn any good moves like said above. You might think that getting Confusion is nice, but why take a non-STAB Confusion when there are Woobat, Gothita and Solosis to utilize STAB Confusion with better stats (Woobat is arguable, but Unaware is actually useful in some situations).Is this the pokemon themselves or their evolution families? There are only basic/baby pokemon on the list and Azurill is far from high.
Anyway, my suggestion:
- High tier
Psyduck available from Floccessy ranch, with a 10% chance to encounter it, the same as patrat and mareep, and higher than riolu and pidove. The reason I have him as a high tier, is that unlike azurill he is sp attack based, making surf more effective in-battle. It can also learn good coverage in the various psychic type attacks, and shadow claw, since ghost types aren't common. (And the ones that are aren't very useful with the exception of drifblim.) Psyduck also has very good stats for an early-on NFE pokemon. It learns water pulse as early on as 18 in this game, which is actually pretty powerful! An ideal set would be: Surf (an HM)
Psychic (good coverage)
Shadow claw (great coverage)
and then another move, possibly waterfall/dive for an extra HM, due to it's not too shabby attack.
Psyduck can also be an HM slave:
Surf
Waterfall
Dive
Strength
This is why I proclaim it to be high tier!