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BW2 General Metagame Discussion Thread

For those who will "miss" Scarf Genesect, Scarf Jirachi is a good replacement. It doesn't have nearly as much power as Genesect, but nonetheless is a good substitute that has some advantages. The first is Trick. The second is a combination of Serene Grace + Iron Head that will possibly hax your opponent to death. I remember having haxed many Haxorus (pun intended) by flinching them to death, for example. Also, instead of being outpaced by Scarf/+1 DD Salamence, Jirachi speed ties with him. Sure, this is not outpacing, but speed tie is better than being outpaced.
 
So, is it just me, or have teams not changed all that much since November? Specifically, I'm not seeing a rise in usage of the pokemon people said would, such as Keldeo and DD Nite and stuff. Am I missing something?
 
On standard ladder no change can really be expected- the people you heard that from (on IRC I'm guessing) would never wander there in its current state. I wouldn't be surprised if more than half of the people on there hadn't been playing for more than a month so they don't really have an intuitive idea of what could be done with Keldeo and Dnite compared the stuff they use like Emboar and Archeops.
 
Dark Fallen Angel said:
For those who will "miss" Scarf Genesect, Scarf Jirachi is a good replacement. It doesn't have nearly as much power as Genesect, but nonetheless is a good substitute that has some advantages. The first is Trick. The second is a combination of Serene Grace + Iron Head that will possibly hax your opponent to death. I remember having haxed many Haxorus (pun intended) by flinching them to death, for example. Also, instead of being outpaced by Scarf/+1 DD Salamence, Jirachi speed ties with him. Sure, this is not outpacing, but speed tie is better than being outpaced.
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Scarf Jirachi is not at all a good replacement for Scarf Genesect. Scarf Jirachi is an average at best revenge killer and is nowhere comparable to Genesect. It's far weaker, has less powerful coverage, and doesn't have STAB on its U-turn. Part of what made Scarf Genesect so deadly was its strong elemental coverage, and Genesect could punish efforts to avoid that elemental coverage with its powerful U-turn. Jirachi does nothing of the sort. Its coverage moves are far more punishing to be locked into, and its U-turn does pitiful damage. The lack of STAB on U-turn forces it to forgo either a coverage move, its STAB Iron Head, Trick, or U-turn itself. You can't have all of them, and without all of them Scarf Jirachi can't even come close to Scarf Genesect's level. It isn't nearly as efficient as Genesect's usual movepool was. And Genesect at least had Explosion if you were desperate for a way to stop Modest Volcarona. If you're using Scarf Jirachi it's probably because you needed both a Scarfer and a Dragon-type or ExtremeSpeed resistance. Otherwise it is an incredibly underwhelming set.
 
Ohhhhh.... This should be fun. Forrestress, skarmory, and possibly donphan will rise in usage no doubt. Maybe wobba can climb out of BL and be OU? Sturdy aggron and steelix in ru look cool. Along with sturdy probopass and golem in nu. Regirock will love this if/when sturdy comes out.
 
Tobes said:
Scarf Jirachi is not at all a good replacement for Scarf Genesect. Scarf Jirachi is an average at best revenge killer and is nowhere comparable to Genesect. It's far weaker, has less powerful coverage, and doesn't have STAB on its U-turn. Part of what made Scarf Genesect so deadly was its strong elemental coverage, and Genesect could punish efforts to avoid that elemental coverage with its powerful U-turn. Jirachi does nothing of the sort. Its coverage moves are far more punishing to be locked into, and its U-turn does pitiful damage. The lack of STAB on U-turn forces it to forgo either a coverage move, its STAB Iron Head, Trick, or U-turn itself. You can't have all of them, and without all of them Scarf Jirachi can't even come close to Scarf Genesect's level. It isn't nearly as efficient as Genesect's usual movepool was. And Genesect at least had Explosion if you were desperate for a way to stop Modest Volcarona. If you're using Scarf Jirachi it's probably because you needed both a Scarfer and a Dragon-type or ExtremeSpeed resistance. Otherwise it is an incredibly underwhelming set.
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I will add to parts of this I agree with in that ScarfJirachi was capable of outspeeding any unboosted (+2 Spd from Rock Polish) Genesect and OHKO with Fire Punch. This was one of the reasons I often suggested Jirachi and also due to Trick locking the opponents' Ground/Fire-type moves so you could set up either Landorus or Terrakion respectively, depending on the the opponent's choice-locked move.

Not only that, but Genesect was praised for being a "Dragon Slayer" yet failed to outspeed one of the most common: MoxieMence. At least Jirachi was able to speed tie with Salamence in tight situations, whilst ensuring ScarfGenesect leads were knocked out on the first turn.

I'm not saying Jirachi with Choice Scarf is no longer a viable option because Trick and flinching w/ elemental coverage is always a safe option to fall back on, but it was more useful during the Genesect era for sure.

Once more, now that Genesect is banned I can safely say Life Orb Scizor running a Jolly nature is extremely good again. You still have to deal with Tentacruel and whittle Keldeo down towards KO range, but it can sweep rain teams and sand teams with minimal effort. Really, Breloom and Scizor should begin to see more usage together if I were believe what I am saying is true.
 
Taylor said:
Once more, now that Genesect is banned I can safely say Life Orb Scizor running a Jolly nature is extremely good again. You still have to deal with Tentacruel and whittle Keldeo down towards KO range, but it can sweep rain teams and sand teams with minimal effort. Really, Breloom and Scizor should begin to see more usage together if I were believe what I am saying is true.
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Here's a short replay of Scizor in action. It's far from an impressive battle and I did get a bit lucky, but you get the general idea of Jolly LO Scizor's prowess if anyone is in doubt.
 
Apparently Wall Mart is releasing Male Sinnoh starters with their respective DW abilities. Not much to brag about, really, but I thought it was funny that Iron Fist Infernape may keep it longer from falling into UU :D
 
Bent1ey said:
Apparently Wall Mart is releasing Male Sinnoh starters with their respective DW abilities. Not much to brag about, really, but I thought it was funny that Iron Fist Infernape may keep it longer from falling into UU :D
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But Iron Fist Infernape already exists; it's even listed as the primary option in one of the smogon sets.
 
Silly me, never mind that random interjection, at least that kind of explains why Infernape hasn't left OU. Uninformed people like me must think it's new :S
 
I don't believe that thunderus t is shown enough love.

With the scarf set with Thunder, Volt Switch, Hp Ice, and focus blast it has (for me) been the GREATEST late game sweeper in the game destroying teams that have no electric resistances left. This thing is ridiculous. More people should use it,
 
Taylor said:
I will add to parts of this I agree with in that ScarfJirachi was capable of outspeeding any unboosted (+2 Spd from Rock Polish) Genesect and OHKO with Fire Punch. This was one of the reasons I often suggested Jirachi and also due to Trick locking the opponents' Ground/Fire-type moves so you could set up either Landorus or Terrakion respectively, depending on the the opponent's choice-locked move.

Not only that, but Genesect was praised for being a "Dragon Slayer" yet failed to outspeed one of the most common: MoxieMence. At least Jirachi was able to speed tie with Salamence in tight situations, whilst ensuring ScarfGenesect leads were knocked out on the first turn.

I'm not saying Jirachi with Choice Scarf is no longer a viable option because Trick and flinching w/ elemental coverage is always a safe option to fall back on, but it was more useful during the Genesect era for sure.
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Those things that I was trying to say, Taylor. Jirachi may not have half of the power that Genesect had, but saying that it's a subpar revenge killer is a thing that I can't agree. If you are saying this, is because you never haxed, or has been haxed by Iron Head. Even without paralysis, the chances of your opponent not moving are very good. You must have something that either outspeeds Jirachi, resists Iron Head AND is not weak to its coverage moves, or that has the bulk to take repeated Iron Heads. Otherwise, I am pretty sure that Jirachi can revenge kill it. Jirachi is not the best revenge killer, but is still a great one. It even has the two advantages over Genesect, that were appointed above.

But as for Scarf Jirachi being more or being less useful with Genesect banned, I can't say for sure. All that I can say is that Scarf Jirachi is the closest thing to Scarf Genesect that exists.
 
Latias really needs to be used more in this meta. I've been using her in my Outsiders Challenge team (can you believe she's only at about 5% usage?!) and she has been easily my most useful teammate. She counters such important threats like Breloom, Sheer Force Landorus, and Keldeo! She even puts a stop to some Terrakion! Honestly, I think I'm in love with a lady, and her name is Latias. I don't know what I was doing without her on my teams all my life.
 
CM Reuniclus was very popular and effective in early BW1. But now with big threats like Scizor, Tyranitar, Keldeo, Torn-T, etc. Reuniclus is too slow to get multiple kills before getting smashed.

The trick room set probably has the most use this meta, since speed is so important Reuniclus can turn the tables and fire off powerful attacks before getting hit back.
 
The Unlucky one said:
custap berry might help it net more kills with the CM set though.
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Maybe so, but that's very situational. Seeing how Reuniclus doesn't have Sturdy, there's only a small chance that you'll be in Custap range. Also, the item is only one-time use, so you'd be better using something more consistent, such as Leftovers or Life Orb. I have to agree with Lunar Fist though, OTR Reuniclus is more effective in this metagame, given that offensive teams are much more common than stall teams.
 
There is the general rule of CM vs stall and OTR vs offense but the other reason I've seen that CM rank went down is the popularity of Sub CM Jirachi in rain. Not only does it counter Reun fairly well, it also arguably outclasses it doing a good job against stall itself while providing your team a Steel. Reun's bulk would be much more handy without rain because that also removes things like Specs Keldeo / Tornadus / even Toed that can still overwhelm it after a Calm Mind, IMO even if Giratina / Lugia dropped / Deo-D got banned or some other scenario happened where stall gains the edge OTR would still likely be the more useful overall set as long as rain Jirachi is out there.
 
Another thing about CM Reuniclus is that it isn't as good against stall as it seems.Perish Song Celebi is a common sight on Stall teams.It can take hits from Reun without much trouble,keep forcing it out and beat it as last mon.CBttar or ScarfTar(not as much) are used on many stall teams too .Sableye is getting popular on stall teams as well and it's a perfect counter to CMReuniclus.
 
White symphoni said:
Another thing about CM Reuniclus is that it isn't as good against stall as it seems.Perish Song Celebi is a common sight on Stall teams.It can take hits from Reun without much trouble,keep forcing it out and beat it as last mon.CBttar or ScarfTar(not as much) are used on many stall teams too .Sableye is getting popular on stall teams as well and it's a perfect counter to CMReuniclus.
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CM Reuniclus is not as great as it seems on stall teams because good stall teams are those that can deal with it

Remember that time in which Reuniclus was a suspect? That was because those pokémon that are great counters to CM Reuniclus (Perish Song Celebi, CB Tyranitar, Sableye) weren't common on stall teams
 
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