I think that when you guys consider whether or not Nidoqueen is broken, or even if it should be a suspecting, you should also take into account the effects it has on the metagame. In my opinion, Nidoqueen has certainly had a profound effect on the metagame since it's introduction into the tier, and while this is not necessarily a bad thing, I feel that Nidoqueen, in addition to its already superb stallbreaking ability, shifts the metagame in such a way to favor offensive teams significantly more than balance or semi stall, and I feel that this does not show a balanced metagame.
Queen didn't do all of that by herself, BW2 move tutors did most of the job of making it more offensive to fit with Game freak's trend of making the game faster paced. If game freak intends to make the game faster paced and as such more offensive, we should just simply deal with it instead of sticking to the past. Since BW2 released, offense has been the preferred style for all tiers, not just ru.
First of all, let's take a look at what actually beats Nidoqueen. Offensive teams generally have few issues with it, so that's a given, and balance / bulky offensive teams can use Pokemon such as Uxie and Mesprit as strong Nidoqueen checks, as the threat of Nidoqueen is so great that for most people, it's a better idea to use Uxie or Mesprit to solidly check Nidoqueen rather than attempting to play around her. From the usage stats, we can also assume that Nidoqueen has had an effect on Uxie / Mesprit usage; pre BW2, it was at 13 with about 10% usage, while the next month after BW2 was released, it soared up to 5 with about 14% usage. While 4% may not seem too significant, keep in mind that that's more than enough usage needed to bring a Pokemon from NU up to RU, for example, so in my opinion, that 4% increase is quite significant. Furthermore, in the month after BW2 was released, Nidoqueen was the 2nd most used Pokemon just after Cofagrigus. Therefore, while it is most likely not the only factor, we can attribute Uxie's significant rise in popularity due to the introduction of Nidoqueen into the tier.
This irrelevant because the shift to ps affected usage a lot. For example Crustle was barely ru/in nu ranage when we still used po(
| 58 | Crustle | 404 | 3.175% | 364 | 3.389% | )
, but as soon we shifted to ps it went up to solid ru position with no need to worry about it going down(| 41 | Crustle | 1232 | 6.302% | 923 | 6.882% | ). As for Queen being 2 when it hits ru, that has a simple explanation: PEOPLE WANT TO TRY THE NEW TOY THAT LOOKS AMAZING, not to mention that Golurk also hit #2 in nu the month it dropped, as well as Cinccino who stayed high in the usage stats until it rose to RU when we were able to use Skill Link. The reason queen has stayed high in usage is the same reason Scizor has been high in the OU usage stats since the day it got Bullet Punch: It lived up to the hype, and has nothing to do with it being broken or not unless it gets suspect ladder Genesect's usage level. As fo Uxie rising in usage, there is a simple reason, even the amazing ladder realized that it is an incredibly reliable lead to get SR pretty much always because it is insanely hard to ohko with the stuff available in ru and is pretty versatile.
Now, given that Uxie has risen to counter Nidoqueen, there is most likely another chain response to support Nidoqueen by the increase in Pokemon that are able to deal with Uxie. While this is difficult to give evidence for, as Cofagrigus was also in the tier much of the time Nidoqueen was here, and it shares many of the same checks and counters as Uxie, we do have evidence from the months that Cofagrigus was removed in. In the month after Nidoqueen was introduced into the tier, Drapion sat at #14 with 10% usage.
And Drapion most used set this month was the mighty Tspikes set. This surely helps in dealing with the stuff queen doesn't want to face.
In October, one month after Cofagrigus was removed from the tier, Drapion stayed at a similar place, at #15 with about 10% usage.
And still Tspikes was the most used set that doesn't help queen at all.
Similarly, Spiritomb soared from #31 when Nidoqueen was introduced to #21 the month after Cofagrigus was removed. While it would somewhat make sense for these Pokemon to drop after Cofagrigus was removed, as the most important threat they would counter had been removed, they instead stayed at the same usage or increased, which must mean that there is some other factor that is keeping them at such high usage. While Spiritomb's rise may be attributed in part due to the rise of Fighting-types from Cofagrigus's leave, I still believe that part of the reason it and Drapion did not really drop was because of their ability to beat the bulky Psychics that give Nidoqueen trouble.
Wrong the real reason Spiritomb rose in usage:is this: Average ladder kid reasoning: Cofag is UU now????? fine, I guess it is time to use Spiritomb in its place instead Not to mention that Absol does the job of eliminating bulky psychics 100x times better. And no the reason it rose has nothing to do with queen, the
REAL reason it rose was because of plan to get Absol to ru from months ago because it should have been there since before the time Nidoqueen dropped.
How do these kinds of changes shift the metagame? Well, for starters, Nidoqueen itself already gives a lot of slower teams a lot of issues. Walls such as Tangrowth, Steelix, and other excellent Pokemon who counter much of the metagame are incredibly difficult to use with Nidoqueen around, as since they are slower and risk being OHKO'd by Nidoqueen
These two are also fucked hard by Moltres that now with Hurricane doesn't need to worry much about Slowking if luck is on his side while being powerful enough to 2hko Lanturn with HP grass if it dares to come in against the fiery chicken. Those are terrible examples that prove nothing about queen being broken.
Nidoqueen forces them into a lethal guessing game, that Nidoqueen has a significant advantage in. Uxie and Mesprit are also act more as pivots who keep momentum, not walls, and therefore favor bulky / heavy offense teams more than the traditional walls that were used before Nidoqueen's drop.
And if a mon is giving you so many problems why not just add it to deal with it easier instead of whining about it not fitting your criteria for what you want? As Kevin Garret said once: "Pokemon #6 is a Pokemon that fills the needs of whatever your team struggles against. This is the piece that changes most drastically between stall teams." And should be applied if queen is so hard to deal with instead of whining about it.
And, because the Pokemon who beat Uxie and Mesprit, such as Absol, Drapion, and Spiritomb, can be relatively tricky for stall team to deal with, especially with Nidoqueen discouraging the use of some of their best counters, it's no wonder that the metagame has become significantly more offensive.
Guess what, the counters for those mons you mentioned also lose to Moltres while they trap or weaken moltres' counters. Can we blame moltres now for not allowing those mons counters to get the usage they should be getting if the fiery chicken was not here?
Granted, usage stats are not very solid evidence, due to the myriad of factors that are in play. However, as Nidoqueen is currently the #1 Pokemon, it seems logical to me that it would have the greatest impact on the metagame.
Claydol was #1 at some point. It was obviously an incredibly influential pokemon. Usage means nothing unless it gets to Genesect's levels where there is no reason to not run it. THE MIGHTY METANG was #7 in 1337 stats once, Metang was obviously a top level threat that month that nobody really prepared for and came out of fucking nowhere.
Some people have claimed, however, that Pokemon such as Sigilyph, Swords Dance Gallade, and Expert Belt Magmortar do give stall a lot of issues. However, none of these Pokemon are as easy to fit into a team as Nidoqueen, as the queen's access to Stealth Rock and slew of resistances, which grant her the ability to check a slew of threats, makes Nidoqueen a very easy Pokemon to fit onto teams
Resists that barely matter because everything that primarly use those moves has coverage to hit Queen super effectively.
Furthermore, none of those other Pokemon have quite the perfectly placed stall breaking capabilities that Nidoqueen has; Sigilyph and Magmortar can be paralyzed
All para moves are Twave. Good to know
and the latter is hit by all hazards
And queen still takes about 20% damage by switching into SR+1 layer of spikes.
Lum Berry Gallade is closer to Nidoqueen, but ultimately does not have Nidoqueen's hit taking-potential on the physical side, and lacks the many useful resistances Nidoqueen has to make switching in painless, hence why none of them are as dominant or metagame-changing as Nidoqueen is
Again, the resist mean nothing when all mons that get a move that hits queen for .5x get a move to hit her for 2x. And switching is not painless when it takes at least 50% when coming in in pretty much any attack from something decently powerful/not resisted from a weakling and hazards in play.
Furthermore, the Pokemon that beat these Pokemon at beat things other than the Pokemon they are supposed to beat; Regirock (idk what you're smoking TropiOUs, but Regirock isn't 2hkoed by unboosted LO Sigilyph lol)
252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Regirock: 140-166 (38.46 - 45.6%) -- 77.34% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes. You sure about that?
Mandibuzz (who also loses to Nidoqueen lol)
Hail+hazard support+roost spam until out of ko range to whirlwind/brave bird say otherwise.
and Spiritomb all check way more than just Sigilyph
Only legitimate part in this post.
whereas the likes of Lickilicky, Uxie, Gardevoir, and Clefable (Cryogonal is a shaky check, and it really doesn't counter Nidoqueen...)
Ohkoing back while not gettin ohkoed after rocks is a shaky check. Good to know.
cannot do much other than counter Nidoqueen, as Lickilicky and Clefable are both mediocre outside of beating Nidoqueen because of the fact that many of RU's most relevant special attackers use Focus Blast
Sceptile is not most relevant special attackers. It is just one. So queen coming in makes pokemon that were viable before(lickilicky and clefable) are now useless because a few mons get focus blast that not only is an unreliable as fuck move, but only like 2 good mons(Jynx and Sceptile) actually use? Good to know.
while Uxie lacks reliable recovery and Gardevoir, while the best out of the lot, can be taken advantage of due to the fact that Wish + Protect takes 2 turns to heal with.
Why is Gardevoir wasting a turn using wish when she ohkoes queen without even trying with 0 sp.a investment?
Nidoqueen is simply on a far different level than RU's other stallbreakers.
Taking 50% damage easily in a switch means it is above everything else. Good to know.
Furthermore, the problem with the current metagame with Nidoqueen is that offense is so utterly dominant that stall has become almost non-existent, and balance has become marginalized.
Or it could be that stall is extremely boring for newcomers and that they want to play more games by going offensive to finish them fast instead of having 30 mins game if they chose stall. In the time it takes to finish a game with stall, someone could have finished 5 already just by playing anything offensive.
Most successful teams that I've seen in this time have been either Heavy Offense teams, Bulky Offense, and Hail, and I do not feel that this represent a balanced metagame.
In an ideal metagame, "all viable playing options and strategies should be as competitively balanced as possible, in relation to each other"
No. In an ideal metagame skill is rewarded and nothing else. Unless it gets to the extreme of Goat Control, that even though it is considered extremely skillful, everyone used pretty much the same thing and had to be killed because of that.
Remember, we banned Cresselia because it centralized the metagame around it and made stall far too dominant over offense and balance.
No. The real reason Cresselia was banned is because with no perma sand and lack of really strong dark and fighting types like UU and OU do, made her pretty much a non Multiscale Lugia. Hail had little effect on cresselia because Cress herself was an outstanding support option for sun based teams and as a fool proof wall to deal with the stuff they wanted gone while setting sun by herself and giving a sun sweeper a second chance in a pinch with lunar dance. And Cresselia vs Cresselia fights fo more defensive teams were incedibly dumb and came down to outlucking the opponent. Saying that Cress is banned solely because of its impact against offense and balance is wrong when all teams had problems with her(unless you are called molk and used scraggy for all teams because scraggy 2 gud).
TL;DR: Cresselia was dumb as fuck to deal with any kind of team, not just offense and balance.
Now, Nidoqueen is doing the exact same thing, except for offense instead of stall, and I do not feel that this is acceptable. If just because of this, Nidoqueen deserves to be a suspect, simply because of the incredible effect it has had on the metagame.
Getting a mon suspected for its impact on a playstyle that is becoming worse as time passes is the wrong way to do it. A mon should only be suspected when it affects
all playstyles, and turning the game into a "not using the mon itself or one of its counters because it doesn't fit them the team but is needed to don't get wrecked easily by it? You lose", like it happened with Genesect, Tornadus-T, and Excadrill. And because I know you will take the line of needing the specific counters to don't lose, all you do is simply ignore them and call them only good for queen and nothing else, even though some of them were used a long time before queen dropped, and ones such as Cryogonal only need a small spread change that barely damages its ability to take hits.
As for stall not being as viable as before because of the many changes the game had last summer:
Not everything will stay the same forever. BW2 made this clear in all tiers with offense having over 40% usage in all of them.
Also, if you guys are worried that because of my stance on Nidoqueen that I'm going to suspect it, don't worry about it, as Oglemi will have the final say on what will be suspected.
That still doesn't change the fact that this is another attempt to get queen banned and hopefully get the correct voter pool for that this time.