Something with Excadrill aka Sand Team

[Keksmuffin]

Hello everyone,

Back in the day when i discovered the Random Matchup in Pokemon B/W1 I built a team which was very similar to the team I want to show here. A few weeks ago I found this team in one of my boxes and I wanted to know if I could still win with this team like I did at the Random Matchup back in the days. So I tested this team on the VGC-ladder on Pokemon Showdown. It wasn't that bad but not half as good as the team I'm using normally.

Advices on how I could improve this team and make it more viable in the VGC 2013 metagame are appreciated. :]

Team Overview

Movesets

Tea Time (Tyranitar) (M) @ Chople Berry
Trait: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Low Kick
- Protect

This is supposed to be a sand team duh. Apart from that Tyranitar helps against Trick Room-Teams since it can hit most of the Trick Room introducers for super effective damage with Crunch and Tyranitar is very slow itself. Also it 2HKO's standard Cresselia which is very common and can be very annoying.

Spongeroo (Gastrodon) (M) @ Rindo Berry
Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Protect

Gastrodon is my main check against rain-teams because there are still people who think that they can just spam Surf and win even if there is a Gastrodon in the opposing team. Apart from that it is my second check for Trick Room-teams. It is very slow and can deal with some Trick Room abusers that Tyranitar doesn't want to face like Rhyperior.

Let it Rip (Hitmontop) (M) @ Fighting Gem
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Detect
- Wide Guard
- Fake Out

Hitmontop is a great Pokemon in VGCs. It supports with Intimidate and Fake Out, can survive one or two hits and it still hits hard enough to threaten things that are weak to fighting. My Hitmontop has some random speed investment just to outspeed opposing Hitmontops to have a faster Fake Out than my opponent. It has Wide Guard over Sucker Punch because EQ and Surf are very dangerous to key members of my team.

Mainstream (Latios) (M) @ Dragon Gem
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Psychic
- Substitute
- Protect

I don't think that I want to change anything about this Latios. I have Dragon Pulse over Draco Meteor because I think that it really isn't a good idea to lower your SAtk and force yourself to switch out (which can be really cruel in VGC). I have Psychic over Psyshock because it has a chance of OHKOing Conkeldurr (not common but very threatening to my team) and Terrakion (as long as you aren't in sandstorm). Substitute is very handy against Hitmontops and slower dragons. You can set up a Substitute when your oppenent uses Sucker Punch and KO Hitmontop in the next turn with Psychic. It also helps against the Garchomp/Cresselia-Combo. You can set up a Substitue when your opponent uses Protect with Garchomp and Icy Wind with Cresselia (which doesn't break Latios Substitute).

Alternative

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Duckface (Cresselia) (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 44 SAtk / 212 SDef
Calm Nature
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
- Helping Hand


Since Cresselia keeps getting recommended to me although I really don't want to use it I will just put it as an alternative to Latios. It has enough SAtk investment to make sure that Psychic is a 2HKO on Hitmontop, Ice Beam over Icy Wind against dragons especially Garchomp (since I would lack Dragon Pulse without Latios), Helping Hand to boost the power of EQs from Excadrill.

Mozilla (Zapdos) @ Yache Berry
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 140 HP / 252 SAtk / 116 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Heat Wave
- Detect

Zapdos is very important in this team. It can easily deal with Scizor and it resists fighting type attacks (two big Problems for the rest of my team). It also deals super effective damage to water types (which can be a problem since the most important members of my team are weak to water). Apart from that it is immune to ground which is important because I want to spam EQ with Excadrill.

Vegas (Excadrill) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Sand Rush
EVs: 60 HP / 252 Atk / 196 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- X-Scissor
- Protect

I don't think that I have to explain what Excadrill does. If Excadrill gets in late game, sandstorm is up and it is paired up with Latios/Zapdos the game is pretty much over. It hits like a truck and not even scarfed Terrakion can outspeed it. However it is not very bulky and it can't really do much if sandstorm isn't up.






Replaced Pokemon

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Kamikazi (Togekiss) (M) @ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Air Slash
- Thunder Wave
- Follow Me
- Protect

Togekiss is a pretty good supporter. It can paraflinch Pokemon that threaten its partner and it can prevent its partner from taking dammage with Follow Me. I have Protect over Roost because sometimes Follow Me is very predictable and your opponent will double target Togekiss. With Protect you can play mindgames with either using Protect or Follow Me. I replaced this Togekiss with Hitmontop because my team needed a Fake Out-user and I wanted to get rid of my ice weakness.

Problems

I don't have a Taunt-user which means that I have to play arround Trick Room very carefully and gimmicks like Minimize-Chansey (ugh) could do work against my team.

Hitmontop. Even though I have Latios with Substitute, Hitmontop still threatens my Tyranitar and stops my Excadrill with Intimidate.




If you think that I could change and improve something feel free to leave a comment. :]

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[Rickyticq]

Here's what I think:

I don't have a whole lot of experience in the doubles world, but enough to see that you're very vulnerable to getting faked out and set up on the first turn. Despite of the fact that you've got your own strategy down pretty well (Gastrodon and Excadrill are tough sand abusers to beat in my experience), someone could easily set up on you with a fake out and tailwind/rain dance/icy wind etc. as you don't really have a way to counter it. I'd suggest replacing Togekiss with a good fake out user, maybe hitmontop or scrafty as they both have intimidate and can dish out hard hits as well. Doing this might deplete you of defensive support, but as it appears you're going for a offensive power team anyway, it might not be a bad idea to formulate it more like a goodstuff team. With that in mind, maybe switch out gastrodon's ice beam for recover to make him much harder to take down (especially since Zapdos already carries HP ice). Other than that, I'd say it looks pretty solid. Just keep in mind how other people are going to counter you when you're editing your team (this can come with experience in Random Matchup too!).

 

[Keksmuffin]

I don't have a whole lot of experience in the doubles world, but enough to see that you're very vulnerable to getting faked out and set up on the first turn. Despite of the fact that you've got your own strategy down pretty well (Gastrodon and Excadrill are tough sand abusers to beat in my experience), someone could easily set up on you with a fake out and tailwind/rain dance/icy wind etc. as you don't really have a way to counter it. I'd suggest replacing Togekiss with a good fake out user, maybe hitmontop or scrafty as they both have intimidate and can dish out hard hits as well. Doing this might deplete you of defensive support, but as it appears you're going for a offensive power team anyway, it might not be a bad idea to formulate it more like a goodstuff team. With that in mind, maybe switch out gastrodon's ice beam for recover to make him much harder to take down (especially since Zapdos already carries HP ice). Other than that, I'd say it looks pretty solid. Just keep in mind how other people are going to counter you when you're editing your team (this can come with experience in Random Matchup too!).

I know that this team is very vulnerable to getting faked out and set up since this happended a few times. ._.

I think I will replace Togekiss like you suggested but I don't think I should use Scrafty since I already have two fighting weaknesses.

Let it Rip (Hitmontop) (M) @ Fighting Gem
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Detect
- Wide Guard
- Fake Out


This Hitmontop can put Fake Out pressure on the opponent which means that I'm not forced to double protect if my opponent has a Fake Out user on the field. Random speed investment to outspeed opposing Hitmontops. Wide Guard because EQ and Surf are very dangerous to my team.

Investment (Sableye) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Sucker Punch
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Fake Out


This Sableye would be option number two for replacing Togekiss. It has Fake Out and it is a ghost type which means that every kind of Fake Out pressure would be gone. Apart from that it has Taunt to shut down Trick Room introducers and Will-O-Whisp to cripple physical attackers (although WoW can miss and Hitmontop with Intimidate could do this job better).

 

[The Knights of Wario Land]

This is a pretty standard and good team you got here, However, my main concern is that your team has absolutely no form of speed control besides Sand Rush Excadrill, which you cannot always guarantee due to Politoed or Abomasnow switching in and out. For that, I would maybe consider swapping out Latios or Cresselia, because it can tank hits and deal with Hitmontop much more easily, while providing speed control for your team with Icy Wind/Thunder Wave. Sure, you lose that Dragon Pulse, but I think that Cresselia just adds more to your team, as Excadrill really isn't that strong of a defensive core like its other Steel bretherin. If you still feel that Latios is too invaluable for your team, however, consider replacing HP Ice or Detect on Zapdos with Tailwind or Thunder Wave.

 

[Keksmuffin]

This is a pretty standard and good team you got here, However, my main concern is that your team has absolutely no form of speed control besides Sand Rush Excadrill, which you cannot always guarantee due to Politoed or Abomasnow switching in and out. For that, I would maybe consider swapping out Latios or Cresselia, because it can tank hits and deal with Hitmontop much more easily, while providing speed control for your team with Icy Wind/Thunder Wave. Sure, you lose that Dragon Pulse, but I think that Cresselia just adds more to your team, as Excadrill really isn't that strong of a defensive core like its other Steel bretherin. If you still feel that Latios is too invaluable for your team, however, consider replacing HP Ice or Detect on Zapdos with Tailwind or Thunder Wave.

Sounds reasonable. However I really don't want to use Cresselia. This team is meant to be a fun team for short matches. Cresselia always makes battles long and boring.

I will replace HP Ice with Thunder Wave like you suggested.

 

[M. Rock]

Sounds reasonable. However I really don't want to use Cresselia. This team is meant to be a fun team for short matches. Cresselia always makes battles long and boring.

No offense, but that's absolutely terrible reasoning to not use one (especially considering how good it is). This is a tournament format, the whole point is to win matches, no matter how long it takes.
I'm not telling you to use Cresselia, I was just saying that your reason not to is highly irrational.

 

[Administrator]

No offense, but that's absolutely terrible reasoning to not use one (especially considering how good it is). This is a tournament format, the whole point is to win matches, no matter how long it takes.
I'm not telling you to use Cresselia, I was just saying that your reason not to is highly irrational.

There's nothing irrational about his reasoning; like OP said, his purpose with his team is to have fun and not primarily to win in tournaments. So his rejection of Cresselia is pretty logically consistent with his overall goal.

 

[M. Rock]

(facepalm) Well I didn't read the entire OP, sorry

 

[Keksmuffin]

No offense, but that's absolutely terrible reasoning to not use one (especially considering how good it is). This is a tournament format, the whole point is to win matches, no matter how long it takes.
I'm not telling you to use Cresselia, I was just saying that your reason not to is highly irrational.

Well you have a point there. I guess I was a little bit lazy when I wrote this. ._.

I know that Cresselia is very good. I know that it can 2HKO Hitmontops and it takes only around 30% from Sucker Punch. I know that it could support Excadrill with Helping Hand.

However I don't want to use Cresselia because
1. I wouldn't have a Dragon anymore which means that Hydreigon and Garchomp would be really big threats.
2. Killing Hitmontop is not the problem. The problem is that Hitmontop has Intimidate and Fake Out which are big problems if you want to do work with Excadrill. Latios can bait Hitmontop to use Sucker Punch to get a free Substitute. Cresselia just scares them out what means that my Excadrill will get intimidated and fake outed once again.
3. Sometimes a strong Dragon Pulse is much better support for Excadrill than Helping Hand could be. Garchomp survives a Helping Hand boosted EQ, Gastrodon survives it, most Politoeds survive it. Just to name some threats to my team.
4. As I said before it is a fun team for fast matches. If I really want to win I use another team.

I hope this was more reasonable. :]

 

[tlyee61]

However I don't want to use Cresselia because
1. I wouldn't have a Dragon anymore which means that Hydreigon and Garchomp would be really big threats.
lol cress has ice beam
2. Killing Hitmontop is not the problem. The problem is that Hitmontop has Intimidate and Fake Out which are big problems if you want to do work with Excadrill. there's something called switching
Latios can bait Hitmontop to use Sucker Punch to get a free Substitute.
Cresselia just scares them out what means that my Excadrill will get intimidated and fake outed once again.
that requires them to switch too... just kill top with cress or good prediction.
3. Sometimes a strong Dragon Pulse is much better support for Excadrill than Helping Hand could be. Garchomp survives a Helping Hand boosted EQ, Gastrodon survives it, most Politoeds survive it. Just to name some threats to my team.

 

[Keksmuffin]

1. Ice Beam from Cresselia is a 3HKO on Hydreigon and a 2HKO on Garchomp even if it doesn't have Yache Berry.
2. The point is that Latios can get up a free Substitute when there is a Hitmontop on the opposing side while Cresselia can just go for the obvious Psychic/Psyshock which is not even a guaranteed 2HKO. I just think that Latios with Substitute can deal better with Hitmontop than Cresselia could do.