Hitmontop has been added to D Rank
That's so mean. Toppers is far better than D Rank :/
Hitmontop has been added to D Rank
I never understood the hype surrounding Top. I've played both Tier Shift and UU for a long time, and it's never been a threat to me even if my teams weren't particularly prepared for it. It just doesn't have a strong enough offensive presence to distinguish it from other, better Rapid Spinners. The most it can do to threaten most spinblockers is...Toxic. <.<That's so mean. Toppers is far better than D Rank :/
I'm trying to imagine what a chuckling Ferrothorn sounds like.Scolipede has to be added to B-Rank. It's the best Spiker in the Tier Shift metagame and a strong attck after an Swords Dance boost is awesome. Moost death walls are weak to Megahorn such a Uxie, and Cresselia, and Bug is a great typing in Tier Shift do do the lack of resists the commonly boosted 'mons use. If it has to deal with those stupid Heatran for example it always has nice coverage.
Glad it was a typo (or whatever mistyping the entire word is called; I do it all the time, I wonder if there's a term for that exact phenomenon). I mean, you're allowed to think whatever you want about bests and worsts, but Ferrothorn is just amazing.Scolipede has to be added to B-Rank. It's the fastestSpiker in the Tier Shift metagame and a strong attck after an Swords Dance boost is awesome. Moost death walls are weak to Megahorn such a Uxie, and Cresselia, and Bug is a great typing in Tier Shift do do the lack of resists the commonly boosted 'mons use. If it has to deal with those stupid Heatran for example it always has nice coverage.
I never understood the hype surrounding Top. I've played both Tier Shift and UU for a long time, and it's never been a threat to me even if my teams weren't particularly prepared for it. It just doesn't have a strong enough offensive presence to distinguish it from other, better Rapid Spinners. The most it can do to threaten most spinblockers is...Toxic. <.<
For some weird reason I can't get Showdown replays to work for the life of me. Hitting the play button causes them to go to the very end of the of the replay, it's very weird. Your replays are generally going to fall on deaf ears, the Whiscash one worked for me though.Well, it gets Foresight and Suckerpunch. Intimidate is always nice, although I am Doubles Biased a bit. It resists Stealth Rock, which is a bonus. It's defensively good, although 55 base HP isn't great.
I'm not saying it's S Rank, more like B-C rank, since its main niche is unblockable Spin, which in a metagame where Sun is truly a force to behold, is really great, as it lets Jumpluff, Ninetales, etc. come in more times or for free.
Here's a replay for you displaying its utility.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/tiershift-39022841
I don't know why the Cofagrigous is level 34 though. That wasn't something I noticed til I watched the replay.
Oh sorry, I was typing wrong, I meant to put the fastest spiker not the best, fixedI'm trying to imagine what a chuckling Ferrothorn sounds like.
Top also gets Priority, Intimidate or Technician, and RESISTS Stealth Rock.For some weird
For some weird reason I can't get Showdown replays to work for the life of me. Hitting the play button causes them to go to the very end of the of the replay, it's very weird. Your replays are generally going to fall on deaf ears, the Whiscash one worked for me though.
Anyways, Hitmontop is just really niche. Teams that can justify using Hitmontop have to need
A Fighting Type
Bulk
Rapid Spin
all on one team slot. If you need any two of the three, or any one of the three there's better choices. Because of this Hitmontop is niche enough to see use on very very few teams. This basically defines D-Rank to me. Usually you'll have a better choice, but Hitmontop has a small niche that saves him from uselessness.
Sucker Punch? Foresight?Hitmontop is just one of those Pokes that's much better on paper than it is in practice. Yes, it has solid bulk, typing, and access to Rapid Spin, but has no reliable recovery, mediocre offensive stats and coverage; and no method of threatening most ghosts right off the bat. It's generally just outclassed by Rapid Spinners and Fighting types alike.
Foresight has never threatened any of my teams (even if they are loaded with hazard setters) because it's way too slow. If Top dares to Foresight my Ghost, I just burn it, reset hazards, and watch it eventually die to residual damage. Zero attack investment Sucker Punch does hardly anything to bulkier Ghosts, and because it only works if the Ghosts attack Hitmontop, it is easy to play around.Sucker Punch? Foresight?
Ok then.
Who the heck is running 0 atk Top? Other than awful people I mean? 252 HP/252 Atk is a good standard set, although I run like 12-16 speed in Doubles to creep the 8 speed Tops.Foresight has never threatened any of my teams (even if they are loaded with hazard setters) because it's way too slow. If Top dares to Foresight my Ghost, I just burn it, reset hazards, and watch it eventually die to residual damage. Zero attack investment Sucker Punch hardly anything to bulkier Ghosts, and because it only works if the Ghosts attack Hitmontop, it's is easy to play around.
It's really only useful on heavy stall teams, where Chansey can heal its status and pass it Wishes, but even then, there are other Rapid Spinners that do the job better.
To each their own I suppose. However, unless you're packing 2 spin blockers, Top is going to do its job, and then switch out more than likely. Relying on Top to do damage outside of a Gem CC (not very viable in Singles) is silliness, but using it as a utilitymon is very viable. I'll get some more replays for you to prove my point though if you don't believe me.Even Max Atk Sucker Punch doesn't do enough damage to most Ghosts, especially if it gets lolburned. Not to mention, it's still incredibly easy to play around (i.e. setting hazards or spamming status while Himtontop hopelessly tries to Sucker Punch). I find that it generally loses the fight against tough hazard stacking teams, while I can't say the same thing about Tentacruel or Starmie, especially when they are in the hands of a good player.
Definitely worthy of at least C rank, though I would actually say that it is B rank worthy, considering how frickin powerful it is in the sun. I know that counter arguments include the fact that it is one of the most suicidal attackers in the metagame since it takes like 62.5% damage from switching in when rocks are on the field, but to wreck extreme damage, it really only needs spin support + sun support. It also has amazing offensive and defensive synergy with the powerful Jumpluff, which can sweep teems clean if it comes in on a lured bulky water type (from Charizard). Besides that, the only real water type that switches safely into Specs Charizard in sun is Politoed because of Drizzle.Qwilfish said:I don't understand how Charizard is in D-Rank. Under Sun, it becomes one of the hardest hitting 'mons in the game with its CS Solar Power Fire Blasts. Unlike others who can hit this hard, it isnt even slow. 115 Speed is nothing to scoff at and outspeeds many importent things. There is almost nothing that will want to take that hit. The fact that it can do this without the use of set-up turns is reason enough for it to be above "not effective"
It does have that 4x weakness to SR and suffers from the same problems as Zangoose, it can't switch in and it simply does to fast. But, when it does get in, it is almost guaranteed to get at least one kill
Move Charizard to C-Rank or higher
Nothing can reliably take 2 Choice Specs Fire Blasts in the sun, meaning that it can easily properly "fulfill a given offensive niche"B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche
And even then, I've been able to take down toed with a Specs Air Slash on the switch-in, and another.I have seen some earlier comments on Charizard and it's D rank position. I definately agree with
Definitely worthy of at least C rank, though I would actually say that it is B rank worthy, considering how frickin powerful it is in the sun. I know that counter arguments include the fact that it is one of the most suicidal attackers in the metagame since it takes like 62.5% damage from switching in when rocks are on the field, but to wreck extreme damage, it really only needs spin support + sun support. It also has amazing offensive and defensive synergy with the powerful Jumpluff, which can sweep teems clean if it comes in on a lured bulky water type (from Charizard). Besides that, the only real water type that switches safely into Specs Charizard in sun is Politoed because of Drizzle.
Nothing can reliably take 2 Choice Specs Fire Blasts in the sun, meaning that it can easily properly "fulfill a given offensive niche"
I have seen some earlier comments on Charizard and it's D rank position. I definately agree with
Definitely worthy of at least C rank, though I would actually say that it is B rank worthy, considering how frickin powerful it is in the sun. I know that counter arguments include the fact that it is one of the most suicidal attackers in the metagame since it takes like 62.5% damage from switching in when rocks are on the field, but to wreck extreme damage, it really only needs spin support + sun support. It also has amazing offensive and defensive synergy with the powerful Jumpluff, which can sweep teems clean if it comes in on a lured bulky water type (from Charizard). Besides that, the only real water type that switches safely into Specs Charizard in sun is Politoed because of Drizzle.
Nothing can reliably take 2 Choice Specs Fire Blasts in the sun, meaning that it can easily properly "fulfill a given offensive niche"
effective given the right support = 2HKOs the entire tier with sun support and kind of requires a spinner.Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy
Moltres also has that double SR weakness and it's A Rank. Sure Hurricane gives it an edge. But Charizard has a far better movepool than Moltres outside of Hurricane. Even with Hurricane, Moltres needs spin support, and so does Charizard. Damage input from Specs set is quite high even outside of Sun and Air Slash does considerable damage to Politoed, even.The problem with Charizard is that the double SR weakness + constant Solar Power recoil do not mesh well at all. The high residual damage generally prevents him from living long enough to do enough damage to the opposing team; at best, he kills one thing and proceeds to get revenge killed. His only real use is to be a glass cannon on some sort of offensive sun team, but he's horrible from a synergy perspective and they generally have more important roles to fill.
He is just another case of "looks good on paper, but fails in practice". Pass.