Serious Zimmerman Acquitted

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Just like it has ruined Casey Anthony's life. I hear she's got it pretty bad wherever she is. The whole, having to change her hair and her name, and nobody bothering her thing must be tough. That ought to be enough for the Martins.


the whole part where there wasnt enough evidence to arrest zimmerman must also be tough. justice will be served to those who deserve it, whether by the government, or a higher power.
 
speaking completely vaguely and unrelated to the case at hand:

the justice system is not without its flaws, innocent people have been convicted of crimes and guilty people have been released

saying that the court should not be held under any scrutiny of public opinion / people should not be expressing their dissatisfation with a ruling is completely insane

just to clarify, im not saying that the court of public opinion is the highest court by any means (or should be able to overrule any court of the country), im saying that lady justice is hardly as blind as some people like to pretend
 
The biggest problem with the verdict is that Martin was basically given zero rights from the very start. How do we even know if Martin felt threatened or not? It is basically a fact that the guy got out his car and followed him.... Where was martin's right to stand his ground? This is more than just race.... this is about a crazy, gun toting lunatic that got to decide whose child he wanted to kill that day. If you look at the protest crowds there are so many different walks of life. This can happen to anybody. Like many other people I believe the provocation of the fight started when Zimmerman left his car. The legality of following someone doesn't matter because technically once Martin felt threatened he had the right to defend himself. Unfortunately it is impossible to prove that martin felt that his life was in danger because he is dead and the case is over.
 
Love how the idea rendering of a guilty verdict on a minority defendant is the only path to justice in this case. Way to go leftist smogonites!
Oh wait, Zimmerman isn't a minority solely because the media called him a "white Hispanic." It's fun having absolutely no integrity, isn't it?

Let's get real here. Trayvon Martin was not a helpless 14 year old teenage boy like his pictures. He was a 6'2" football player with a questionable history.

Coolbiz: Unless you intend to turn around and assault a neighborhood watch person just for the inconvenience of following you a short distance after his neighborhood had a rash of breakins (and you fit the perp's description), you won't get shot.

Zimmerman isn't a hero, but neither is Martin. Stop pretending an athletic teenanger who is larger than many grown men (AKA unarmed my ass) - who beat a man bloody into the dirt - is a defenseless child. I don't know why Trayvon responded that way, but if I were to be as unkind to Martin as some of you are being to Zimmerman, I'd say Trayvon thought he was a "thug lyfe" tough shit and he could take a "crazy-ass cracker" following him. Trayvon wanted to show that fat hispanic good, he just didn't count on Zimmerman having a gun.

He jumped Zimmerman to try and teach him a lesson, started beating his head into the ground, and then Zimmerman shot him because he was afraid this massive, legitimately threatening black teenager was going to kill him.

This case had nothing to do with race. The media played up, and played up, and played up that narrative. Know what would have happened if the races were reversed? You never would have heard about it, because Al Sharpton couldn't have used it to stoke race hatred. Black Zimmerman never even gets charged because Hispanic Trayvon can't be easily turned into a cause for leftist race baiters.

George Zimmerman was turned into a monster because the media thought when they saw his name he was as White Bread as I am, and when i turned out he was hispanic, the old white guy kills young black teenager (What a tragedy! RACISM ALIVE IN AMERICA! WEE-OOO-WEE-OOO! BREAK OUT THE TORCHES!) narrative was already set in stone. So Zimmerman gets crucified in the court of public opinion, gets his words literally twisted and fabricated by media outlets like NBC - all to make leftists feel good about their fake-ass race consciousness.
 
Unsure if NJ was referring to my post at all, but even so--I agree. While I always like to look at the CJS idealistically, I recognize the inherent problems that exist. There are definitely going to be both of the problems NJ has mentioned--innocent people convicted and guilty people released. To address these two problems, however, we need to look at our potential options. We can either make it more difficult to send people to jail, thus minimizing the innocent people who are convicted, or make it easier to send people to jail, minimizing the guilty people who walk. Regardless of our decision, we will increase one of these types of error...it is impossible not to. In my opinion, and that of the CJS, the route taken should be to minimize the number of innocent people convicted. That is why the burden is on the prosecution. Unfortunately, this is often not fairly distributed, with a variety of unrelated factors, especially race, leading to or influencing convictions.

I likewise agree with Curtains. I personally believe that Martin felt threatened from Zimmerman's approach, and decided to fight instead of flee. That's what seems most likely in my mind. This sort of situation is not impossible--it is in fact rather possible. I personally just disagree with the whole idea of neighborhood watch committees and such bearing arms in general.

However, even with these considerations, it is still my belief that this case exemplifies how the CJS works. There is a chance this man is guilty of murder in the second degree. A rather high chance, however. But there is still the existing possibility that he was in fact (don't hate me for the word choice) the victim of the situation. He was injured (and did not self-inflict these injuries). There was a scuffle. His claims hold water, and THAT'S WHAT MATTERS. Let's imagine that Zimmerman was telling the entire truth. He was engaging in self-defense as Trayvon attacked him. But the entire country did not believe him. There are instances in which being in the wrong place at the wrong time lead to an improper evaluation of a situation, alienating the defendant from anyone's support (not suggesting this is one of those times). Do we convict because the popular vote says to? No, we acquit because it is only just to uphold our burden before conviction.

He may have been a racist murdering asshole. But because there is the still existing chance that this is not the case, an acquittal is necessary, even if it leaves a bad taste in your mouth. It isn't the simple cases that demonstrate the effectiveness of the law and of the CJS. It is in the proper handling of the difficult cases that really proves the system works. If such decisions could be fairly made (regardless of race), and the same circumstances applying if, say, Trayvon was white and Zimmerman was a threatening looking black male, then this would be evidence of a perfectly just society. While this is not the case, this happening as it did is at least indicative of a properly working Justice System...even if you don't like it.
 

Are you serious when you say he was able to take down Zimmerman just because he was a football player? Have you seen pictures of how small this kid was? Everybody knows race was factored in this. If Zimmerman saw a white kid walking down that street in a hoodie there's no way he would of had followed and killed him. He saw a black kid in a white neighborhood and assumed "o he looks like he's gonna rob some people" because of past incidents. Dude get real America is filled with this crap, especially in southern states such as Florida.
 
pretty sure dk just assumed more about the case than the rest of us combined, and what a classical dk assumption it is

Oh, so George Zimmerman doesn't have bloodied up pics, and the medical report + the autopsy report did not indicate Zimmerman had lacerations on the back of his head and a broken lip, and Trayvon did not point out Martin had damaged knuckles.

No wait, all of that stuff was admitted as evidence. Maybe your problem is personal - you don't like the fact I specifically am posting an alternative view -, not that what I'm saying isn't an entirely credible explanation. I embellished slightly because the pro-Martin forces seem to believe Zimmerman was stalking Trayvon and then shot him in cold blood, while Trayvon was just innocently minding his own business. The evidence in the trial of Zimmerman's bloodied head and face don't support that theory.

I'm trying to point out how uncharitable you're being by expressing your own behavior, just biased in the other direction.

What I honestly think happened is Zimmerman was just making his rounds as the neighborhood watch, Martin noticed him, confronted him - at some point it got phyiscal, and Martin being the larger, stronger man was easily tossing Zimmerman aside. Zimmerman thought he was going to be seriously harmed or killed, and he shot Martin. Neither are exemplary citizens. But Zimmerman didn't beat his own face in, or lacerate the back of his own skull.

Curtains said:
Nothing to do with race when your entire post is about how Martin was a scary " 6'2 athletic black thug with a questionable history". OK

So, 5'11 (corrected) athletic guys with questionable histories aren't scary on dark, rainy nights - in neighborhoods with recent break-ins?

His race is irrelevant, except that it also fit the profile of the break-in suspects. But hey, it's the left that wants to turn this into a race war, by all means insinuate I believe Zimmerman would think Martin is scary because he's black, not because he towers over Zimmerman, is physically superior, and reacted in a hostile and physical manner.

Edit: coolbiz:

This don't look like a small guy, at least not compared to Zimmerman:

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tray-newest.jpg

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More pics: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=155450403&page=1

Oh, and I've come across information, apparently I was wrong about Martin being 6'2". My error, but you see it's been insanely difficult to get accurate information on Martin when the media keeps posting pics of him as a 12 year old kid. Turns out he's 5'11. He's still larger and much more athletic than Zimmerman, if not more than the average person per se.
 
I don't give a shit about the racial stuff here. What really bugs me is that the guy admitted to killing him, but gets off scott free under this retarded self defence crap.
 
I don't give a shit about the racial stuff here. What really bugs me is that the guy admitted to killing him, but gets off scott free under this retarded self defence crap.

So when some guy starts whaling on you and beating you into the dirt - potentially to death - are you going to just lie down and take it? Or are you going to defend yourself - with lethal force if necessary.

Self defense - it's always "retarded" until your life is in the balance.
 
DK when you get rid of your fear of black people then we can have a logical discussion about the case. This is the same fear that led zimmerman to get out his car in the first place. Every kind of walk of life from presidents to the homeless have smoked weed and put up the middle finger so I don't get the point of spamming pitcures of martin doing that. Zimmerman didn't see those pics when he approached him and that is why they were left out of the case.
 
I don't think anyone itc denies the possibility that Trayvon swung first but the entire damn conflict could've been avoided if Zimmerman had not decided to try playing the role of hero and listened to the 911 operators. For going against the common sense choice alone I think Zimmerman should be punished, manslaughter sounds very fair here. If he were really concerned about his safety he would've stayed back and waited for the proper authorities.
 
quit talking like you were standing right there, dk

the wounds to zimmermans head were minimal at best and could have been caused by attacking or defending, same with the cut on martin's hand

the point is, we don't know who attacked and who defended, only that the unarmed one ended up dead (ps you can't change the definition of unarmed just because the dude might have been burly (which he really isn't), one had a weapon and the other didnt) after 911 dispatchers told the armed one they didn't need him to do any kind of vigilante justice

either way, what happened wasn't right, and i don't blame martin for attacking zimmerman if that's how it did play out- if you want to argue self defense i think that falls under the category of protecting yourself from somebody who is following you in a hostile and violent manner
 
DK when you get rid of your fear of black people then we can have a logical discussion about the case. This is the same fear that led zimmerman to get out his car in the first place. Every kind of walk of life from presidents to the homeless have smoked weed and put up the middle finger so I don't get the point of spamming pitcures of martin doing that. Zimmerman didn't see those pics when he approached him and that is why they were left out of the case.

How pretentious. You lead with an ad hominem, then declare you'll wait for ME to have a logical discussion?

Grow up, child.
 
So when some guy starts whaling on you and beating you into the dirt - potentially to death - are you going to just lie down and take it? Or are you going to defend yourself - with lethal force if necessary.

Self defense - it's always "retarded" until your life is in the balance.

You saw Trayvon beat him? No, you don't know if he did that to himself to cover it up, not saying he didn't but you keep including how he is such a strong kid but I really don't think you saw the size comparisons of these 2 people. Trayvon has no muscle even if he is athletic, I highly doubt he wouldve over powered him to the point were couldve killed him.
 
No my proletariat masses, don't fall for DK's bourgeoisie plot to lure you away from the issues that truly matter.

If you could read Latin, you could understand my view on this whole thing.

What is DK even arguing about really, outside of the whole pointless tangent about the liberal media? At best I think I have boiled it down to "someone can shoot aggressive looking people that may or may not have threatened them" which um... is inconsequential at best.
 
Bullshit at its finest. Honestly, I get that they couldn't "prove beyond a reasonable doubt" that zimmerman was not acting in self defense, but if you killed someone (regardless of the reason), you fucking killed someone. Moreover, zimmerman had no fucking business playing righteous citizen, who the fuck does he think he is initiating "vigilante justice"? If he stayed in the car like the operator instructed him to do, none of this shit would have happened. He started the confrontation, why was he not, at the very least, held accountable for that? He's not going to live a normal life anymore. And he sure as hell won't be a able to sleep at night, at least there's some justice in that.
 
How pretentious. You lead with an ad hominem, then declare you'll wait for ME to have a logical discussion?

Grow up, child.
You call me a child when your entire argument is:

"He's big and black"

"Liberal bias"

You say its not about race but you are basically the ONLY one bringing it up. The point is that he is not a cop. We don't know who initiated physical contact... We don't know if martin felt threatened... We only get one side of the story. You are just assuming immediately that zimmerman is right because of course according to you the big black questionable youth had to been up to something and was 100 percent the agressor.
 
You say its not about race but you are basically the ONLY one bringing it up.

To me this just reaffirms to me that racism is alive and well in the US, to be honest I'm pretty sickened

Tell me how a black football player gets two years for shooting himself... but Zimmerman gets nothing for killing a black minor. Welcome to america..... Also did you see trayvons death photo? I bet zimmerman felt really threatened by trayvons skinny jeans..... This country is a fucking disgrace.

Me being a teen living in Florida this actually concerns me more than a lot of people understand, especially here on smogon. I have a 30 minutes walk home from school everyday next to a major road, what if a racist crazy person decides to ram into me? Not likely but possible and they could EASILY say it was on accident. Actually that just happened on the exact road im speaking of 2 weeks ago, it was a accident but I am on high alert ready to fight any other race person, just saying. Dont even get me started on how they picked a jury with no black people. I GUARANTEE if the skin colors on these 2 individuals were flipped the black person would IMMEDIATELY be charged with homicide not even a chance to say the word "accident". Still love 'merica and all but it can have its sucky times.

Everybody knows race was factored in this. If Zimmerman saw a white kid walking down that street in a hoodie there's no way he would of had followed and killed him. He saw a black kid in a white neighborhood and assumed "o he looks like he's gonna rob some people" because of past incidents. Dude get real America is filled with this crap, especially in southern states such as Florida.

You're full of shit.

You are just assuming immediately that zimmerman is right because of course according to you the big black questionable youth had to been up to something and was 100 percent the agressor.

And you are just assuming immediately that Trayvon was an innocent little kid.

You're both fucking hypocritical idiots with your asses so far up your own asses that all you can smell are your own smelly shit clouds.
 
The 911 call (transcript) is where a lot of where my opinion on this case comes from.

I feel any self-defense case relies heavily on the judgment of the individual in question-- perhaps especially in the instance of one person being armed and the other unarmed.

"These assholes always get away", and, the fact that, after confirming that Zimmerman was following Martin, the operator's "We don't need you to do that" being met with an "Ok" makes me seriously question Zimmerman's judgment in what followed.

How does a scuffle erupt after this? How is Zimmerman not immediately minding his own business? Or turning in the other direction? Staying in his car?

While the message of the verdict is "there is not sufficient evidence to convict Zimmerman of second degree murder and manslaughter," it is difficult not to read it as "Zimmerman's behavior in this situation was correct" which doesn't sit well with me.
 
I'm full of shit? with no reason behind my being full of shit? insults and then leave it at that right. I am in no way here to argue but that was completely unnecessary dude, guarantee you wouldn't say that in real life to me so why say it over the internet? not here to discuss that though, I'm done with this bs discussion its just gonna be the same dumb ass argument over and over
 
with your asses so far up your own asses
How does that work?

Like many people have said, this all could of been avoided if Zimmerman just listen to the police. What happen after the 911 call will remain a mystery and Zimmerman is the only one that truly know, and if he is lying, it doesn't look he'll come clean anytime soon. When I read a case, I always ask myself "Was justice served?" and in cases like these, I just don't know. Only thing I will say is I feel bad Trayvon's family, because no matter how you look at it, they lost someone.
 
Im gonna leave saying this, i see this from a black male teen perspective who sees a lot of racist stuff. Being black much more racist things happen to me and thats something a lot of white people dont understand, looking back I admit a lot of things I said were out of anger and was trying to vent? idk. seriously white people dont quite understand whats its like, not saying any of you here havent and more than likely have but I know the racist words for black people are used more than any other maybe than terrorist and whatnot? But yeah ive seen a lot of racism, have been picked on for it and see it as another of one of those experiences.

outlaw: just because the things i say are dumb doesnt mean i am dumb, the last thing I wanna do is argue with you so I leave it at this think what you want of me man, i dont give a actual fuck:p
 
Welp.

I was going to say something, but I realized I didn't care all that much when it originally happened. That and people are arguing so anything I say, serious or not, is going to be swallowed up in some whirlwind of biased anger (at both ends; I mean lets be honest fellas).
 
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