Pokémon XY General Discussion

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Katakiri

Listen, Brendan...
is a Researcher Alumnus
I really hope its not Grass/Dark. We already have ChespinEvo likely being Grass/Dark on top of Shifty and Cacturne and now we have 3 fully evolved Dark-types revealed already in Pangoro, Malamar, and Yveltal. Houndour is a wild Pokemon in Kalos as well and SableyeEvo likely around the corner. I know 5th Gen had a total of 7 Dark-type families but I'm getting a bit fatigued of the /Dark-typings already.
I'd welcome a Grass/Ghost or Grass/Fairy tho. Especially if Treemon gets Power Whip. I'm perfectly okay with a Ghost-type that can smack Tyranitar, Politoed, and Keldeo in the face. Grass/Fairy is a nice little combo for taking Garchomp down a peg with that Dragon immunity and Ground resist. Either way I'd be happy.
 
Anyone recall the discussion many pages back about weird type combinations - their relative positions, I mean? IIRC, Noivern being flying/dragon and not dragon/flying like all the others would be an example of an otherwise unnecessary type permutation. Why do it?

The only thing that comes to mind about how useless these new reversed type1/type2 from existing combinations are/would be is if damage mechanics changed that now uses different STAB weights for primary/secondary types. STAB for type one being greater than the STAB for any secondary typing.....so instead of a 50% boost for either type of a pokemon, something like 60% for primary type and 40% for secondary. Perhaps it may even now me 50% STAB for type 1 and 25% for secondary types. IMO, this would be a possible correction to power creep while nerfing the offensive "penalty" single type mons exist with (or you could think of it as a debuff for the offensive advantage that dual-types enjoy).

I really can't think of another reason to have both dragon/flying and flying/dragon, of course we could stipulate that a prevo might be straight flying or flying/something that then becomes part dragon. Would this be a good or bad thing, though? That, I am not too sure.
 

Katakiri

Listen, Brendan...
is a Researcher Alumnus
It's likely just because Noivern may evolve from a Flying/X-type Pokemon rather than Flying/Dragon. He could easily evolve from a Flying/Normal or Pure Flying-type Bat Pokemon and have his secondary typing replaced by Dragon when he evolves. That's pretty much how secondary typings have always worked. Scizor goes from Bug/Flying to Bug/Steel, Bellossom goes from Grass/Poison to Grass, Rotom-A's secondary typing is the one that changes, same goes for Meloetta; if a type is added, removed, or changed, it's very very likely to be its secondary typing. Talonflame is the one exception to the rule that I can think of since its Fire/Flying when Fetchling was Normal/Flying.
But yeah, secondary-typing only matters for evolution sake.
 
I really hope its not Grass/Dark. We already have ChespinEvo likely being Grass/Dark on top of Shifty and Cacturne and now we have 3 fully evolved Dark-types revealed already in Pangoro, Malamar, and Yveltal. Houndour is a wild Pokemon in Kalos as well and SableyeEvo likely around the corner. I know 5th Gen had a total of 7 Dark-type families but I'm getting a bit fatigued of the /Dark-typings already.
I'd welcome a Grass/Ghost or Grass/Fairy tho. Especially if Treemon gets Power Whip. I'm perfectly okay with a Ghost-type that can smack Tyranitar, Politoed, and Keldeo in the face. Grass/Fairy is a nice little combo for taking Garchomp down a peg with that Dragon immunity and Ground resist. Either way I'd be happy.
This gets me thinking; If Chespin really does evolve into a Grass/Dark, then he and myself Yveltal were meant to be together in a hot tag team of half/Dark beauty and radness. Them, with Inkay, Pancham and any other two members, will be so metal ^_^

I think Geomancy will be special and Oblivion Wing will be physical.
I'm thinking Oorotto is going to be another ghost because GF might be trying to make up for the lack of total number of ghost pokemon in all the generations put together.
Yeah, except it's gotten to the point where people have determined that Ghost is the least common type as an aesthetic choice by the designers, perhaps to roughly replicate the real world's uncommon interactions with the dead. For comparison, Water is the most abundant type, like how most known species of animals, extinct and extant alike, live in the ocean or other bodies of water, I know to avoid talking about Game Freak's so called patterns in game design, as they're always breaking new ones, but they're always going to have only a pinch of new Ghost types in every generation. You may notice that, if Orotto is part Ghost, then it's the only other Ghost type besides Honedge that's been revealed, while there are seven Fairy types (by a retcon technicality), three Fire types, three Grass types (assuming that Orotto is a Grass type, like we'd expect a tree to be) several bug types, several flying types, three Water types, a Dragon type, etc....
 

Stellar

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I've been very impressed by the quality of posts in this thread over the course of the last two days. Keep it up guys! I've asked the rest of the OI staff to use the "like" function liberally to identify what we consider to be good posts, so keep a lookout for those. As with any other forum on Smogon, good posting in Orange Islands eventually leads to a Community Contributor badge. :]
 
Also if I had to make a guess as to Pangoro's stats, I reckon it'll definately have a higher attack and HP stat than scrafty. It'll probably have low speed, 100 or 115 base HP, and maybe 125-130ish attack with much lower defenses and speed.

Ultimately, probably a better user of Bulk Up than Scrafty due to higher HP and attack, but I doubt it will be filling Scrafty's role as a moxie DD sweeper any time soon.
 
There may not be a reason that the only Poison type we've seen so far is Skrelp, other than Game Freak wanting to point out some of their version exclusives, and Skrelp, who is a Y exclusive, also happens to be a Poison type. In terms of the Poison type's distribution in the Pokemon world, it's got middle-of-the-road rarity as the eighth most common type as of Gen V, so you can certainly expect 1-3 out of every 17-18 new Pokemon to be a Poison type without getting too disappointed if the actual number falls short of that range. If Poison types wind up getting a major boost out of their rumored strength against Fairy types, then that may be cause (as I see it) to introduce one or two Poison types to trainers before challenging our also-rumored Fairy-centric second gym. This may well be the case since Steel is one of the least common types, and one that we haven't really seen during the first couple of steps into any journey(besides Aron and maybe one or two others that I'm not thinking about right now).
 
I wouldn't mind seeing -poison- as a status effect getting a little overhaul too.
Maybe give toxic poison its own status icon (txc) and make regular poison similar to burn, lowering defense by one stage as well as inflicting damage each turn.
Of course I doubt this will happen, since poison is meant to be a low-ranking status effect that mainly occurs early game, but if we are to use poison moves more commonly in X/Y, randomly inflicting with regular poison off sludge bomb should never be a bad thing.
 
In terms of the Poison type's distribution in the Pokemon world, it's got middle-of-the-road rarity as the eighth most common type as of Gen V, so you can certainly expect 1-3 out of every 17-18 new Pokemon to be a Poison type without getting too disappointed if the actual number falls short of that range.
The flaw with that assertion is that well over half of all Poison types are from the first generation. The trend for the 4 generations since then averages to about 6 per generation. So we might only get Skrelp's evo/s and like, 4 others.
 
Other than skrelp GF might only introduce 2-3 new poison pokemon because giving us a lot of choice before the fairy gym(if it is there) would mean that it might be too easy to defeat the gym leader.Think about the old poison type pokemon that is going to be featured in X&Y.I saw somewhere in this thread someone saying that zubat was shown in pokemon smash in a horde battle against a helioptile.That means crobat might be there in the Kalos pokedex.
Now about the steel type, I think GF is going to focus more on poison than steel because looking at the pokemon in OU the majority is steel type.
eg:Skarmory, Heatran, Ferrothorn, Foretress, Jirachi, Magnezone, Metagross and Scizor bringing the total up to 8.
If we look at the total amount of poison type pokemon in OU that gives us a total of up to 4 namely Gengar, Tentacruel, Venusaur and Toxicroak.
So they might be trying to give importance to poison. That means Honedge might be one of the few steel pokemon that are going to be created by GF for this generation.
Another reason to support the theory of giving less importance to steel types is that if you look at the pokemon in OU you will find that the most common and abundant type is steel.
 
On the topic of typings, this may just be a nitpick, but we haven't been shown any Ground, Rock, or Ice-type Pokemon. Do you guys think there will be any new Pokemon of those types revealed (like the 5th Gen pre-release info, which contained at least one Pokemon of every type).
 
Other than skrelp GF might only introduce 2-3 new poison pokemon because giving us a lot of choice before the fairy gym(if it is there) would mean that it might be too easy to defeat the gym leader.

If GF ever worried about gyms being too easy, they wouldn't have given us Sableye in Hoenn before Brawly's Fighting gym, and they also wouldn't have given us Magnemite in the Virbank complex before Roxie's Poison gym in the most recent installment. I'm sure there are other examples of this, as it is a game that has a primary target market of 10-12 year old children. It wouldn't make any sense to make the game too difficult. Whitney was the exception to this assumption.
That being said, I would love for GF to build on the difficulty system they implemented in BW2. Making it available from the start, and boosting the levels slightly more than previously. This would make the games themselves more challenging for experienced players.

As for the lack of poison types having been released so far, I would just give it time. GF aren't about to give us the entire pokedex before the game is released. I'm sure they'll release a bug/poison counterpart for Vivilon, as that's the way it's been most generations, baring 4th with Mothim. It's only my guess though.
 
BW1 & BW2 had at least one, sometimes MANY MORE than one, Pokemon near by for the first 4 or so gyms.
Not so much in the last 4ish gyms because by that point you have enough backlog variety in addition to new guys.

I mean how quickly we forget the 3 fighting types & a rock type before Lenora
Blaine existing despite...everything.

And why focus on just the fairy leader? I doubt there will be a lack of Flying &/or Fire &/or Rock types before Viola, for instance

On the topic of typings, this may just be a nitpick, but we haven't been shown any Ground, Rock, or Ice-type Pokemon. Do you guys think there will be any new Pokemon of those types revealed (like the 5th Gen pre-release info, which contained at least one Pokemon of every type).
Of course we will
take note that until this month we had no Ghost, Steel, or Psychic pokemon (unless you count newtwo (don't count newtwo))
or how the month before we didn't have a dragon or poison
 
I wouldn't mind seeing -poison- as a status effect getting a little overhaul too.
Maybe give toxic poison its own status icon (txc) and make regular poison similar to burn, lowering defense by one stage as well as inflicting damage each turn.
Of course I doubt this will happen, since poison is meant to be a low-ranking status effect that mainly occurs early game, but if we are to use poison moves more commonly in X/Y, randomly inflicting with regular poison off sludge bomb should never be a bad thing.
You're right about poison's usefulness according to Game Freak. I think that the biggest disqualifier for Poison getting better is when they nerfed poison as a status affliction in BW. Since it doesn't hurt your Pokémon outside of battle anymore (and they're quite adamant about keeping certain gameplay changes, so that may not go back to how it used to be any time soon), I don't know that there would be anything they would do to kinda compensate for that. Nerfing the poison condition made it a more survivable intro to status problems, and I like to hope that's where they want to keep it. Out of all the status afflictions so far, it does become a good lead-up to the others, particularly burn for being 3 times more of a pain to deal with if your physical Pokémon is the burnt one.


The flaw with that assertion is that well over half of all Poison types are from the first generation. The trend for the 4 generations since then averages to about 6 per generation. So we might only get Skrelp's evo/s and like, 4 others.
I'd like to change my comment from "1-3 out of every 17-18 new pokemon" to 1-3 out of every 17-18(maybe 17-20) Pokémon available in the Kalos region. In the Johto and Sinnoh regions, there wasn't necessarily a new early Poison type, but a new relative to an old mostly common Poison type that you may have had to raise a Pokémon of the same evolutionary line to obtain a Pokedex entry on the new addition, so I don't want to set myself up for disappointment if there isn't a completely new Poison type to run into by route 3. I find it equally likely that we may see Nidoran, Spinarak or another similar preexisting Poison type instead, but this is assuming that Game Freak is using the segmented Pokedex to make further use of as many of the 550 some odd available Pokémon (not counting starters and legendaries) to show off as much wildlife diversity as possible. Given some of the implied choices that they're putting in the game (Taillow and Ledyba judging by the commercials, and Zigzagoon as we saw from the image of the new Pokedex), they could be planning to use an old Poison type for the early routes to make the type present.

If GF ever worried about gyms being too easy, they wouldn't have given us Sableye in Hoenn before Brawly's Fighting gym, and they also wouldn't have given us Magnemite in the Virbank complex before Roxie's Poison gym in the most recent installment. I'm sure there are other examples of this, as it is a game that has a primary target market of 10-12 year old children. It wouldn't make any sense to make the game too difficult. Whitney was the exception to this assumption.
That being said, I would love for GF to build on the difficulty system they implemented in BW2. Making it available from the start, and boosting the levels slightly more than previously. This would make the games themselves more challenging for experienced players.

As for the lack of poison types having been released so far, I would just give it time. GF aren't about to give us the entire pokedex before the game is released. I'm sure they'll release a bug/poison counterpart for Vivilon, as that's the way it's been most generations, baring 4th with Mothim. It's only my guess though.
Yeah, and don't you usually run into an ace-in-the-hole kind of Pokémon not too long before reaching most gyms? in BW, they give you a monkey that would help you in the Striaton City gym if you chose to use it. Any children who understand type compatibilities would want to use that knowledge to their advantage in a gym challenge, and Game Freak has almost always distributed different types of Pokémon fairly to give trainers the upper hand if they want to act on it. I don't think that we should be flooded with Poison types, or even one that should show a lot of late-game promise, but I agree. I don't think the victory becomes a give-away if there's at least one available species that can support your team during a fight against a gym leader before you meet them, like finding Geodude two towns ahead of Violet City, or Electrike before Fortree City.

And why focus on just the fairy leader? I doubt there will be a lack of Flying &/or Fire &/or Rock types before Viola, for instance
Wait, don't you mean you doubt there will be a plethora of Flying, Fire or Rock types before fighting Viola? Either way, chances are that we won't have much to choose from if we want to win thanks to some type favorability, in which case FLETCHLING, who could probably Peck your way to your first badge if he can't Flame Charge that early on
 
If GF ever worried about gyms being too easy, they wouldn't have given us Sableye in Hoenn before Brawly's Fighting gym, and they also wouldn't have given us Magnemite in the Virbank complex before Roxie's Poison gym in the most recent installment. I'm sure there are other examples of this, as it is a game that has a primary target market of 10-12 year old children. It wouldn't make any sense to make the game too difficult. Whitney was the exception to this assumption.

I will never understand why people think Whitney is so difficult. Just catch a Geodude.
 

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
Yep, it's my fault for not catching a Geodude. :p
But those days I was in a challenge among my peers of using only 3 Pokemon for the entire game. (allowed to evolve) So I picked cyndaquil , gastly and jynx.


Calling Oorotto to be Fire/Fighting

I'm hyped for the Flipsquidbirds (They look cooool) . I'm just curious how they are going to abuse Contrary. As they seem to be more specially orientated, they don't have too many options to boost themselves, unless we are going to get special Superpower this gen. I seriosly doubt that they will get Overheat/Leaf Storm/Draco Meteor, and Psycho Boost is unlikely.
Seeing that neither of the flipsquidbirds (xD) are water typed, I think we can't even be 100% sure about Oorotto being grass.
Formerly we thought every aquatic life is supposingly water type, but since Generation 5 we start to have stuff like Maggyo and Shibibiru, we aren't sure anymore.

Oorotto could be maybe dark/ fairy, dark/ ghost, whatever they want really.
 
Wait, don't you mean you doubt there will be a plethora of Flying, Fire or Rock types before fighting Viola?Either way, chances are that we won't have much to choose from if we want to win thanks to some type favorability, in which case FLETCHLING, who could probably Peck your way to your first badge if he can't Flame Charge that early on
In addition to our starter (Feneekin; Chespin gets roll out, he can manage theoretically), I also suspect we'll get a few other early-game birds. Taillow, for instance, maybe even Pidgey & Starly.
Litleo could be the new Shinx and be on the second route.

and so on
 
Dugtrio before Lt. Surge. The ultimate

I agree that hard mode should return we pokemon connoisseurs need a challenge. An easy mode for small children is a good idea also
 
Fennekin can manage with bug types by using ember. Chespine gets roll out so that means froakie might also get something to counter against bug types. I think froakie will get gust early on to help with Viola. Whimsicott gets gust and hurricane even though it is only grass. So froakie might get gust looking at the bubbles or wimsicott like hair on its body.
Taillow, for instance, maybe even Pidgey & Starly.
And what might be the use of being able to get all these pokemon of the same type? Other than for choice I don't see the need to get all these pokemon in the same or neaeby routes.
GF might be introducing other regions pokemon to put in the different pokedexes. For example the starting rodent or patrat and fletchling might be available in the first route and must be part of the central kalos pokedex and pokemon like taillow and zigzagoon must be part of the mountain kalos pokedex and maybe bibarel and peliper for coastal kalos pokedex.
 
I see Pangoro becoming a great asset in Trick Room teams. Hammer Arm gets boosted by STAB and Iron Fist + it reduces its speed each time
 
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