Metagross (QC 2/3) (Write-up complete)

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The Leprechaun

wear nike not fila
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
[OVERVIEW]

<p>Metagross is often considered king of bulky offence and with a monstrous 135 base attack plus defences of 80/130/95 it's not hard to see why. As there is a lack of defensive pokemon in the tier, bulky attackers can be very important in doubles, especially when they hold great resistances to prolific types like ice, rock and dragon. It's overlooked in singles because of its middling speed, poor STAB coverage and a horrible case of 'Four Move Slot Syndrome' but, thanks to the doubles environment, these holes can be patched up easily by team support, either by offering speed control or by providing more coverage, making it incredibly effective. Finally, it's ability, Clear Body, means that it is one of only a few physical attackers not scared of intimidaters making it even harder to check. Metagross is a pokemon who can fit on almost any playstyle and so should always should be considered for a teamslot.</p>

[SET]

name: Bulky Attacker
move 1: Meteor Mash
move 2: Bullet Punch/Zen Headbutt
move 3: Zen Headbutt/ Earthquake/ Explosion
move 4: Protect
Iiem: Occa Berry/ Shuca Berry/ Steel Gem
nature: Adamant
EVs: 196 Hp/ 252 Atk/ 60 Spd

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is the standard bulky offence set and even without any power boosting items it hits hard as hell. Meteor Mash is the STAB move of choice because a base 100 power move coming from Metagross is life crushing, especially if it gets an attack raise. Bullet Punch is great for grabbing KOs on faster threats but having two offensive steel moves can really limit your coverage. Zen Headbutt is another incredibly powerful moves on gross which can destroy any fighting types (including an OHKO on standard hitmontop). Earthquake is the preferred coverage move as it allows you to hit steels, notably Heatran, for super effective or neutral damage and it's Gross' best option for a spread move. However, Explosion can be very very effective in grabbing free switches and KOing threats which are a nuisance to your team. A well timed Explosion can really turn a battle around. Occa berry and Shuca berry are there to cover one of its two weaknesses making it harder to take down. Steel gem however is for quickly dispatching or denting bulky mons like Dusclops and Cresselia who can survive for large portions of the game causing trouble. In a similar vein, psychic gem can be used for OHKOs on annoying pokes like Amoonguss and Conkeldurr. EVs let it outspeed 0 speed heatran and outspeed max speed base 120s after a tailwind, survive a modest Heatran heat wave, life orb adamant earthquake from Excadrill and modest hydro pump in rain from Kingdra.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p> Speed control such as tailwind or icy wind is great for Metagross as its only downside is its speed stat. Beacuse of this, a different EV spread with more speed investment can be used. As Metagross deals with hail so well thanks to his typing, he pairs well with tailwind setters like Zapdos, Salamence and Tornadus who are all scared of multiple blizzards. Mamoswine is another great option as it can easily deal with some of Gross' main threats like Heatran and Landorus. Gross can also lend a hand (giant metal fist) to Mamo in taking out any fighting types on the field.</p>

[SET]

name: Choice Band
move 1: Meteor Mash/ Zen Heabutt/ Iron Head
move 2: Bullet Punch
move 3: Earthquake/ Explosion
move 4: Trick
Iiem: Choice band
nature: Adamant
EVs: 196 HP/ 252 Atk/ 60 Spd

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is one of the hardest hitting sets in the doubles metagame. And with a STAB priority move in the form of bullet punch, it can be incredibly dangerous. As bullet punch is probaly the most important move on this set, meteor mash is no longer completely necessary as, again, it would limit your coverage having two offensive steel moves, and because on repeated use, having mediocre accuracy is not nice. Thanks to the choice band, iron head is a viable option on this set, trading 15 base power for perfect accuracy. Trick is essential for the final moveslot as it can give this set some versatility as well as rendering support pokes such as Cresselia useless. Don't use this set if you don't have the team members to suport it though. The fact that you have to drop protect means that whenever any threat comes in, you will be forced to switch or dispatch of it quickly. Make sure you have answers for Gross' checks. </p>

[SET]

name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Zen Headbutt/ Meteor Mash
move 2: Ice Punch
move 3: Earthquake/ Explosion
move 4: Trick
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/ 240 Spd/ 16 HP

[SET COMMENTS]

<p> Choice scarf may be unconventional in doubles, but for Metagross, it can work fantastically because it has the coverage to beat all of its checks as well as having access to the move trick. With zen headbutt as the main STAB move, any levitating steel resist such as Gyarados can be hit hard unsuspectingly. Earthquake is there mainly for fire types that may usually outspeed and kill Gross like Heatran or Chandelure. Ice Punch is possibly the most important move on the set because it destroys ground types that love to threaten Gross. Ice punch is an OHKO on both Landoruses (Landori?), Garchomp and Shaymin-Sky, all of which are outsped with this EV spread.</P>

[OTHER OPTIONS]

<P>A trick room spread with 0 speed EVs, IVs and a brave nature is perfectly viable, but there are a set of slower, possibly more powerful pokes that can do the job better. Hammer arm can be used to hit annoying pokes like Ferrothorn harder but earthquake is generally the better option because it hits both opponents, has 100% accuracy and doesn't involve a speed reduction. Thunder punch gives Gross SE coverage on waters, specifically gyarados, who can check it fairly well with the steel resist but because of its low base power, giving up a moveslot generally isn't worth it. Normal gem in conjunction with explosion will do huge damage to anything in the way but with Metagross' massive attack, it normally already scores KOs making it unnecessary.</p>

[CHECKS AND COUNTERS]

<p>Neither of Metagross' STAB moves hit steel types making most of them good checks to it, especially Bronzong who isn't hit by any of the coverage moves Metagross generally carries. Other pokes that resist steel and levitate can work very well in checking any gross that doesn't carry ice punch or zen headbutt including Zapdos, Thundurus and Gyarados who are commonplace in doubles. Almost all fire types have a good time facing Metagross as they resist its main StAB move and can hit back hard on Metagross weaker side as the most common fire move in doubles (heat wave) is special. To a lesser extent, strong earthquake users such as Landorus and Garchomp often force out Metagross but must be wary of an ice punch coming their way - Metagross has 130 base defence and can often tank the physical moves giving it a chance to retaliate... hard. Finally, anything with a decent speed stat can check Metagross by revenge killing it without fear of being outsped.</p>

Skeleton:
Doing this on Laga's orders :]. Sorry if I've done this wrong/ missed stuff out.

[Overview]

  • Can fit on any form of speed control team.
  • High attack and good bulk, only 2 weaknesses.
  • Resistances to important types like rock, ice and dragon.
  • Immunity to intimidate and icy wind with clear body.
[set]

Name: Bulky Attacker
Move 1: Meteor Mash
Move 2: Bullet Punch/Zen Headbutt
Move 3: Earthquake/ Zen Headbutt/ Explosion
Move 4: Protect
Item: Occa Berry/ Shuca Berry/ Steel Gem
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 196 Hp/ 252 Atk/ 60 Spd

[Set comments]

  • Hits really hard
  • King of 'Bulky Offense'.
  • Occa berry is used to cover its worst weakness as fire generally hits the special side, its inferior defensive stat.
  • Steel Gem can secure KOs on bulky Pokemon like Cresselia and dusclops to shut down opposing strategies.
  • Protect is a staple on any doubles poke, it allows a free turn to get up tailwind, icy wind, etc.
  • Bullet Punch helps it nab KOs without having to rely on imperfect accuracy or speed.
  • Meteor mash is the best STAB option as it has a high base power, decent accuracy and nice chance for attack boosting.
  • Earthquake is the preferred coverage move as it allows gross to hit steels for SE damage as well as hit multiple opponents.
  • Zen Headbutt is the more powerful option but doesn't provide much coverage. OHKOs standard top. Hits threats like thunderus, zapdos, gyarados and rotom w.
  • Well timed explosions can change the momentum of a game. However, gives gross very little coverage.
  • Psychic Gem can also be used for OHKOs on pokes like Amoongus and Conkeldurr.
  • EVs let it outspeed 0 speed heatran, survive a modest heatran heat wave, life orb adamant earthquake from excadrill and mosest hydro pump in rain from kingdra.
[Additional comments]

  • Speed control is necessary to cover up middling speed stat.
  • Can run max speed to combat faster threats after speed control.
  • Ice punch is another good option for taking out many of gross' threats (landorus, garchomp, etc) but the fact that gross has to take a powerful earthquake to get off this attack discourages its usage.
  • Pairs well with Zapdos and Salamence who can set up tailwind and hit opposing steels with heat wave. Also both ate immune to earthquake.
  • Deals with Tyranitar well allowing pokes like Cresselia and Shaymin-sky to shine.
  • Incidentally, Cress is a great support poke for Metagross as it levitates and can icy wind opponents.
  • Mamoswine is perfect for dealing with Gross' top threats like Heatran, Garchomp and Landorus. Gross can also destroy opposing fighting types with zen heabutt that would normally threaten mamo.
  • Water types such as jello cent and Keldeo can deal with fire types for gross.
  • Tornadus is a nice option as it can speed gross up with tailwind, hit opposing steels with superpower (or focus blast) and because gross deals with hail, and the blizzspam that comes with that, extremely well.
[set]

Name: Choice Band
Move 1: Meteor Mash/ Zen Heabutt/ Iron Head
Move 2: Bullet Punch
Move 3: Earthquake/ Explosion
Move 4: Trick
Item: Choice band
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 196 HP/ 252 Atk/ 60 Spd

[Set comments]
  • Hits like a truck.
  • Explosion kills everything with a band attached.
  • Bullet Punch becomes more useful on a choice band set as its low base power is less of a problem with the attack boost.
  • Trick can be used to screw over utility pokes.
  • Loss of Protect can be horrible for it.
[Set]

Name: Choice Scarf
Move 1: Meteor Mash/ Zen Heabutt
Move 2: Earthquake
Move 3: Ice Punch/ Explosion
Move 4: Trick
Item: Choice Scarf
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/ 240 Spd/ 16 HP

[Set Comments]

  • Still powerful
  • On repeated use, 5% accuracy boost from zen Headbutt may be more desirable.
  • Out speeds and kills some major threats to it like Heatran, Landorus and Garchomp which it wouldn't normally do without scarf.
  • Speed EVs are enough to outspeeds max speed timid shaymin sky by one point.
  • Still has a fair amount of bulk without HP investment but its survivability is significantly reduced, especially with the loss of protect.
  • Fast explosions can catch opponents completely off guard to heavily alter a game in your favor (favour *sigh*).
[Other options]
  • TR spread 0 speed IVs & EVs
  • Hammer Arm
  • Thunder Punch
  • Normal Gem Explosion

[Checks and counters]
  • Steel types
  • Levitating steel resists (zapdos, thunderus, gyarados etc)
  • Heat wave
  • Earthquake
  • Things with decent speed
 
Last edited:
Please, use the correct formatting. Until you've done so, there will be no checks.
 
Steel Gem and Shuca Berry are also nice items for the standard set. Metagross can also make use of a Choice Band set as well, I would add that in somewhere.
 
Alright, I'd add in a Choice set in addition to the standard one, and check the formatting with the other QC threads, fix the format up to match the others threads, and I'll give you an approval. :)
 
Alright, I'd add in a Choice set in addition to the standard one, and check the formatting with the other QC threads, fix the format up to match the others threads, and I'll give you an approval. :)

Lol sorry it took so much effort to get to this point, I was using my iPod and (clearly) I've never done one of these before.
 
I think you should change the spread to 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 w/e since Metagross is usually considered the king of "bulky" offense. I also personally don't think that Bullet Punch is completely necessery, so slash it with like, Zen Headbutt or something. Also, name the set "Bulky Attacker" and mention 252 speed in Additional Comments. Choice set looks great as it is, except, I think Hammer Arm should be slashed with EQ. Mention in Checks and Counters that it is pretty slow, thus easy to revenge kill. Make these changes, and you have a QC Stamp :]
(On phone, no picture for you ;p)
QC Approved 1/3

Edit: and mention more teammates; who has trouble dealing with Pokemon that Metagross KOs or shuts down?
 
Quick note in that The Choice set should be 252 HP if CB and 252 Spe if Scarf. Shuca Berry should also be slashed directly on the bulky attacker set. Expand on teammates a bit like Laga said, and assuming you do that you will be ready for the write-up. Won't approve for the moment, I'll wait for stuff to get done. :)
 
I would remove Magnet Rise and Iron Head from Other Options - Magnet Rise because Metagross is way too slow to actually use the move, and Iron Head because the sacrifice you make for 15% more accuracy hurts Metagross way too much. In addition, why are you running 252 speed on the Choice Band set? Is there anything you outspeed which makes 252 speed worthwhile? Why is Choice Band Metagross running max speed when Regular Bulky Metagross is running max HP??

Finally, you should slash Explosion and Ice Punch on the main Scarf set, or at the very least mention them in OO as they are staples of Metagross.
 
Quick note in that The Choice set should be 252 HP if CB and 252 Spe if Scarf. Shuca Berry should also be slashed directly on the bulky attacker set. Expand on teammates a bit like Laga said, and assuming you do that you will be ready for the write-up. Won't approve for the moment, I'll wait for stuff to get done. :)

Added team options, put them in additional comments of the standard set, didn't know where would go otherwise and I split the 2 choice sets.

I would remove Magnet Rise and Iron Head from Other Options - Magnet Rise because Metagross is way too slow to actually use the move, and Iron Head because the sacrifice you make for 15% more accuracy hurts Metagross way too much. In addition, why are you running 252 speed on the Choice Band set? Is there anything you outspeed which makes 252 speed worthwhile? Why is Choice Band Metagross running max speed when Regular Bulky Metagross is running max HP??

Finally, you should slash Explosion and Ice Punch on the main Scarf set, or at the very least mention them in OO as they are staples of Metagross.

Added explosion and ice punch to choice sets, got rid of magnet rise but left in iron head. It's still very powerful with steel gem or choice band. Even max attack adamant is gonna deal out some big damage. Also on the scarf set the flinches might be desirable.
 
Quite sure 252/252/4 spread on the first two sets cannot possibly be the optimal spread, could you run some calcs and see if it really needs all that HP or all that Attack etc? Otherwise this looks pretty good. Not stamping yet though since that's kinda a big thing.
 
Quite sure 252/252/4 spread on the first two sets cannot possibly be the optimal spread, could you run some calcs and see if it really needs all that HP or all that Attack etc? Otherwise this looks pretty good. Not stamping yet though since that's kinda a big thing.

Umm, i don't quite understand. The EVs are just to maximise bulk and power. Speed wise, unless you invest heavily, (which i did at first but got corrected) it doesn't really out speed much. With no speed investment under a tailwind, it out speeds max speed base 110s. What else would i invest in? it doesn't need anything other than power and bulk. Not trying to be annoying or rude but i honestly don't know what you mean.
 
alright give you a boost in EV optimizing.

EVs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spe Adamant outspeeds max speed Timid Shaymin-Sky in Tailwind and / or Max Speed base 80s after an Icy Wind.

EVs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 92 Spe Adamant lets it outspeed minimum speed Gyarados (and therefore also min speed base 80s and down) outside of speed control.

EVs: 124 HP / 252 Atk / 132 Spe Adamant lets it outspeed minimum speed Rotom-W and Cresselia outside of speed control.

EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 Spe Jolly lets it ouspeed max speed positive base 110 pokemon and down after an Icy Wind. Latios, Terrakion, Infernape, Garchomp, Latias etc.

These are a few examples of (tbh, pretty lazy) optimized EV spreads; something very important in a fast paced metagame like Doubles. If you want to make a complicated spread, use that damage calculator for EVing Metagross to be able to 1) survive some Heat Wave or Earthquake from like Heatran or Landorus-T or something, 2) use one of the Speed EV examples listed here and 3) dump the rest in Attack. It would be cool to see you make a strong spread ;p
 
alright give you a boost in EV optimizing.

EVs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spe Adamant outspeeds max speed Timid Shaymin-Sky in Tailwind and / or Max Speed base 80s after an Icy Wind.

EVs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 92 Spe Adamant lets it outspeed minimum speed Gyarados (and therefore also min speed base 80s and down) outside of speed control.

EVs: 124 HP / 252 Atk / 132 Spe Adamant lets it outspeed minimum speed Rotom-W and Cresselia outside of speed control.

EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 Spe Jolly lets it ouspeed max speed positive base 110 pokemon and down after an Icy Wind. Latios, Terrakion, Infernape, Garchomp, Latias etc.

These are a few examples of (tbh, pretty lazy) optimized EV spreads; something very important in a fast paced metagame like Doubles. If you want to make a complicated spread, use that damage calculator for EVing Metagross to be able to 1) survive some Heat Wave or Earthquake from like Heatran or Landorus-T or something, 2) use one of the Speed EV examples listed here and 3) dump the rest in Attack. It would be cool to see you make a strong spread ;p

When it comes to Metagross, speed is not where you should be looking; you should be EVing Metagross to tank certain attacks, like a Water Gem Hydro Pump off of Politoed in the Rain, etc
 
choice scarf isn't good. at all. it doesn't have anything to ohko with (that has actual accuracy) or an amazing support ability and you give up a lot of bulk to run it, which is the main reason youre using metagross in the first place. band set is p legit in my limited experience with it though.

the first set should be something like

Name: Bulky Attacker (change to 'Tank' imo)
Move 1: Meteor Mash
Move 2: Bullet Punch
Move 3: Zen Headbutt / Ice Punch / Earthquake
Move 4: Protect
Item: Occa Berry / Steel Gem
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Hp/ 252 Atk/ 4 Def

bullet punch and meteor mash are staples on metagross, no questions asked. you could mention in ac the fact that you could run one of the 3rd slot options over it if you feel like you dont need priority, but for the most part, bulky/strong pokemon+stab priority= $$$. also mention psychic gem and lum berry in ac for sure because psygem ohkos stuff like amoonguss and conkeldurr, and lum berry forms a godly combo with trick room swagger cresselia or just swagger in general. also mention trick room speeds to underspeed your swagger mon under trick room so you can grab the swagger boost before you attack with metagross for an instant +2 metagross. also for future reference protect should be last on every moveset it's listed on because its so damn common and it makes everyones analyses so much prettyer :)

cb set should be something like

Name: Choice Band
Move 1: Meteor Mash / Iron Head
Move 2: Bullet Punch
Move 3: Zen Headbutt / Ice Punch / Earthquake
Move 4: Trick / Explosion
Item: Choice band
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 SDef

again with bp being very useful. iron head is a main slash because its banded and might appreciate the accuracy. third slot moves can trickle (pun intended) into the fourth slot if you're not using explosion or trick. i also think a faster spread is worth mentioning; one that outspeeds sashtar (and by extension tornadus after an icy wind) since that would give you both speed and power. e: that may be asking for too much now that i think about it so nvm unless other people think jolly cb should be used for some reason

ill give this another look over later when im not supposed to be sleeping. hopefully im not busy the next couple of days :/
 
Metagross pairs surprisingly well with Tornadus. With Prankster Tailwind and Taunt along with Metagross' ability to KO TTar with ease, as well as having EQ for grounded Electric threats, I'd say the two have quite a bit of synergy.
 
Metagross pairs surprisingly well with Tornadus. With Prankster Tailwind and Taunt along with Metagross' ability to KO TTar with ease, as well as having EQ for grounded Electric threats, I'd say the two have quite a bit of synergy.

Yup, already mentioned it.
 
choice scarf isn't good. at all./

Not true, Metagross already hits incredibly hard and actually many of the checks to it can be ohko'd or severely damaged by the choice scarf set. Here are a list of pokes that threaten Metagross and are outsped and killed by this set:

252 Atk Metagross Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 352-416 (98.32 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Metagross Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 368-436 (115.36 - 136.67%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Metagross Ice Punch vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 368-436 (112.53 - 133.33%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 316-376 (97.83 - 116.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 356-422 (121.08 - 143.53%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 368-434 (113.58 - 133.95%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heracross: 342-404 (113.62 - 134.21%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I dunno, there's probably a few I've missed. But some of these are normally great checks to Metagross like landorus and Garchomp meaning they may have nothing for it. On top of this you have trick as well, I don't know why you would assume this set is bad.

Regarding your concerns with my first set. I kinda agree that bullet punch is kinda necessary but i was told by Laga earlier on in this thread that it wasn't. The thing is, giving meteor mash and bullet punch as essentials really does limit Metagross and can make it kinda useless against some teams (especially rain) whereas if you switch bullet punch for something else it gives it far better coverage. The fact that this is a bulky attacker means that going first isn't that big of a problem because it can tank a few hits. Psy gem is a fair comment, i'll add that but lum berry i'd rather assign to OO because swagger + TR is a bit of a niche and burn isn't that common, paralyse doesn't really hurt gross that badly and sleep rarely hits the poke you want it to.

For the CB set, slashing iron head is a good idea, i'll add that. But again, making the first two moves steel STABs with no other option is a bad idea, which is why i've slashed zen headbutt in that slot. I don't think ice punch should be slashed on a slow set because it only really hits pokes that are faster than it and can cause huge damage, for example, shaymin sky, landorus and garchomp. I finally think giving up trick is too important. A Choiced cress/ dusclops is useless, no reason to give that up.

When it comes to Metagross, speed is not where you should be looking; you should be EVing Metagross to tank certain attacks, like a Water Gem Hydro Pump off of Politoed in the Rain, etc

Ok, if speed isn't important on gross, what am i doing to optimise the EVs? Sorry for being slow but if i'm not investing in speed, attack or hp what am i meant to invest in?
 
if you want to learn how to EV things in doubles, you will need a damage calulator.

An example of a spread I made myself is for Choice Scarf Terrakion. Adamant 236 Atk / 108 Def / 164 Spe allows it to
1) Survive Adamant Life Orb Breloom's Mach Punch and therefore Scizor Bullet Punch too,
2) Survive Timid Latios' Psyshock, and Dragon Gem-boosted Draco Meteor / Psychic in Sandstorm
3) Outspeed maximum speed Deoxys-A and
4) Place the remainder in Attack.

Optimized spreads like this will help you greatly in not being forced to switch out, and therefore being able to keep up the momentum.
 
if you want to learn how to EV things in doubles, you will need a damage calulator.

An example of a spread I made myself is for Choice Scarf Terrakion. Adamant 236 Atk / 108 Def / 164 Spe allows it to
1) Survive Adamant Life Orb Breloom's Mach Punch and therefore Scizor Bullet Punch too,
2) Survive Timid Latios' Psyshock, and Dragon Gem-boosted Draco Meteor / Psychic in Sandstorm
3) Outspeed maximum speed Deoxys-A and
4) Place the remainder in Attack.

Optimized spreads like this will help you greatly in not being forced to switch out, and therefore being able to keep up the momentum.

This.

It also helps you know your own team better by knowing exactly what it does or doesn't do and can help you identify weaknesses, but that is a convo for another time.
 
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