Has "getting hit hard by Earthquake" hurt Heatran? Tyranitar? The multitude of pokemon weak to what has been, since the FIRST GENERATION, one of the most used moves in the game? No. And I do not think it will stop Mega Charizard X, expecially considering they won't switch in their EQer until AFTER you Mega Evolve (lest they look stupid against Y)
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Pokémon Charizard
- Thread starter X5Dragon
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The former has a certain balloon while the later is forced to switch out everytime something that can threaten it with eq comes in not to mention that both of these are specialized walls that function completely different from zard X. Something tells me you're underestimating eq's distribution though and I don't see how you can argue about first gen when your examples are from second and fourth gen with the former not even being used competitively till 4th gen.
Getting hurt by Fairy and Ice hurts Garchomp, and it still stands where it is.
I'll take extra ground damage for less damage to rock, resistance to electric, neutral to water, fairy and ice. Not to mention, this yet again plays into Charizards favor of having two Mega's - What if the opponent thinks we'll be using Y and it ends up X? Or vice versa?
And Charizard X gets a def boost, which will help tank Earthquake better. Use Dragon Dance and he's set.
The problem that Salamence had was the SR weakness along with good scarfers (Keldeo, Terrakion, etc). Sixth gen brought even more pokemon with 100+ base speed AND overpowered Mega Mons. I wouldn't say Charizard isn't exactly bad, it's coverage is good, but there are a lot more megamons I would use in place of this.
how do you guys feel about protect? this way you could mega evolve even in a situation when you do not want to actually take an attack in return but are also not really threatened by something setting up. does anyone think this is worth a move slot or would it not be worth the loss of a moveslot?
Bit of a n00b to competitive battles, so excuse/ignore me if this is an incredibly dumb idea.
Does Dragon Tail have any business being on a Charizard X set? STAB + Tough Claws + forced switch on threats? I know it sacrifices some serious killing power, but I feel like forcing a switch is a pretty solid option.
EDIT: Didn't realize Dragon Tail has negative priority. That hurts my idea a lot. Still something I thought worth mentioning, though.
Does Dragon Tail have any business being on a Charizard X set? STAB + Tough Claws + forced switch on threats? I know it sacrifices some serious killing power, but I feel like forcing a switch is a pretty solid option.
EDIT: Didn't realize Dragon Tail has negative priority. That hurts my idea a lot. Still something I thought worth mentioning, though.
I dunno. As everyone has been saying, Charizard X can't take too many hits, so that's definitely a minus for a Dragon Tail set. However, I can see Dragon Tail being used as a first turn move/for switch ins.
What about Specs SP regular Zard. It had a niche last gen as a late game sweeper, and with Sticky web immunity taking non-scarfed grounded sweepers out of the equation, I could see it being a possibility. Specs SP Zard can 2HKO Vaporeon with Fire Blast if I remember correctly. Obviously not the best set, but still usable.
I never said Charizard X was not viable. It is good with DD; It would be used in my teams a lot more if it was a regular mon instead of a Mega. There's a lot of competition for Charizard atm but I hope it shines when the initial ban goes out.
Charizard as a sweeper is too risky for me. I would use it more as a sub +3 attacker or sub+roost +2 attacks as it can come in at numerous walls (notably aegislash).
Charizard as a sweeper is too risky for me. I would use it more as a sub +3 attacker or sub+roost +2 attacks as it can come in at numerous walls (notably aegislash).
+1 Adamant outspeeds standard +1 Nite (also running Adamant) and most importantly Scarf TTar. An adamant Char with full speed investment will still outspeed Jolly Mamoswine. At +2 you outspeed 110 scarfers. A +speed nature makes sure that at the very least, you speed tie with scarf Jirachi and Salamance.
Keep in mind that CharY has both auto drought and a 50+ increase in SpA, arguably having more power than specs and having the freedom to switch moves.
Finally Charizard will be on my OU team!!!!!! XD!!!!!!!
Ahem. I was thinking of a mono-attacking set for Charizard X based off of Charizard Y's trapping set:
CharX@Charizardite X
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Speed/4 HP
Fire Spin
Dragon Dance
Roost/Earthquake
Outrage/Dragon Claw
So basically you switch in on something that can't harm you (a lot), trap with fire spin, dragon dance off, then proceed to obliterate things. Roost if you need the recovery. Taunters are your worst enemy.
The thing is when the opponent send something at you it will most likely be a counter, which CharY doesn't mind trappin at all most of the time cause it destroys special and physical walls, while CharX with this set will still face trouble from Physical walls. It seems to me that you want something closer to the Substitute + Dragon Dance + Roost set of Dragonite. Or, if you want we can work on a CharX version of the trapper set which should be easy seeing how it has more balance attacking stats.
Flame Charge is boosted by Tough Claws, I suppose we can slash this alongside substitute next to Tailwind, Roost and DD. Stick Web should also be mentioned as a support option in the synergy section.
True, but with SP and Spec, Normal Zard is a little more than 50% more powerful than Zard Y, which, with 3 STAB boosts already on Fire Blast, is a big power boost.
As for Flame Charge, I feel it works well on Zard Y because Zard Y is really good at forcing switches with it's ability and typing, thereby getting a turn to set up. I don't know if that's the case for Zard X.
Yes but then you would have to make a Sun team to support it and sticky web support, and the general census is that Venasaur is a better Sun Sweeper because of it's Cloro boosts and ability to shut down with Sleep Powder or boost it's attack with Growth by +2. I've added Flame Charge with the appropriate nature slash in the special attacking set.
It seems to me the next things to work on are a Physically Based mixed set for CharX, and debating the possibilities of a CharX based trapper set and a sub + roost + dd mono attacking set. Unless someone has any more ideas..
It seems to me the next things to work on are a Physically Based mixed set for CharX, and debating the possibilities of a CharX based trapper set and a sub + roost + dd mono attacking set. Unless someone has any more ideas..
Don't get me wrong, I agree, but SP Zard might be useful if you are using your mega slot for something like Mega Venusaur. Again still not ideal, but it hits a small niche if you want a super powered glass canon, can't use Mega Houndoom, and can give it the support it needs.
you could always use both, defensive ninetales with heatrock and just use charizard as a sweeper/secondary sun bringer.
I changed the OP according to the latest information on the MeVo stats. Couple of changes for the next update which is probably when we get final confirmation on Tough Claw's boost:
1) Add regular Charizard and include his specs set and other viable movesets, this forum is not exclusively about OU or Ubers in the end..
2) Recalculations for the Char X sets.
3) Mixed set based on X's awesome attacking capabilities 130/130, see if a trapper set might also work with or not
4) Also make a mixed set for Y that isn't a trapper, or probably just slash it in the existing set up
Protect is an interesting option, but usually when people switch in their X (wish we could do this in real life whenever we have a fight) they do so on a pokemon they can set up on. Protect will also take place of Roost, Tailwind, DD, Flame Charge or any of the options that helps CharX sweeps. It does however as you said cover up screw ups in switching or bad match ups and let's him switch out safely. I'll let others discuss this and will probably slash it in the next update.
1) Add regular Charizard and include his specs set and other viable movesets, this forum is not exclusively about OU or Ubers in the end..
2) Recalculations for the Char X sets.
3) Mixed set based on X's awesome attacking capabilities 130/130, see if a trapper set might also work with or not
4) Also make a mixed set for Y that isn't a trapper, or probably just slash it in the existing set up
Protect is an interesting option, but usually when people switch in their X (wish we could do this in real life whenever we have a fight) they do so on a pokemon they can set up on. Protect will also take place of Roost, Tailwind, DD, Flame Charge or any of the options that helps CharX sweeps. It does however as you said cover up screw ups in switching or bad match ups and let's him switch out safely. I'll let others discuss this and will probably slash it in the next update.
I like the idea of a mixed/physical CharY, Fire Blitz will also have a boost 'cause of drought.
Problem is Blitz makes you die that much faster (no lefties allowed on a mega). Either use it with Roost or just use Fire Punch. You already hate SR, why make yourself die that much faster?
I've been thinking of a mixed set for Megazard X:
Hasty/Naive nature
252 Atk
252 Spd
4 SpAtk
- Overheat
- Flare Blitz
- Outrage
- Earthquake
With the stat boosts on mega evo you can loose one big overheat on anything that might physically wall you (Jellicent's non-withstanding) then switch to your Tough-Claws boosted phys attacks on pretty much anything else. Obviously MegaZard is going to need a lot of team support to make sure it's not crippled by SR and will need back-up to make sure bulky Fairy's and Fire-retardant pokemon don't wall it. But with the support I reckon that this set could punch some big holes on an opponent's team :3
Hasty/Naive nature
252 Atk
252 Spd
4 SpAtk
- Overheat
- Flare Blitz
- Outrage
- Earthquake
With the stat boosts on mega evo you can loose one big overheat on anything that might physically wall you (Jellicent's non-withstanding) then switch to your Tough-Claws boosted phys attacks on pretty much anything else. Obviously MegaZard is going to need a lot of team support to make sure it's not crippled by SR and will need back-up to make sure bulky Fairy's and Fire-retardant pokemon don't wall it. But with the support I reckon that this set could punch some big holes on an opponent's team :3
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A slightly more optimized version of a physically oriented mixed CharX could definitely work, much like mixed Infernape back in gen 4. Overheat is still really damaging despite the BP nerf, and after the drop in power the user can simply switch to its equally damaging physical moves. Sadly, such a set would only be useful with support and for wallbreaking due to a rather pitiful base speed(100 is not really that bad, but there are too many things that can outspeed that), which in such case you might be better off running something like Kyurem-B or Salamence, or hell even Mega Garchomp.
Of course, the mentioned Dragon Dance could patch up the speed problem, so a mixed DD set meant for sweeping first and wallbreaking second probably has a lot more potential. Something like...
Mega Charizard X
Hasty\Naive Nature
252 Speed, 252 Attack, 4 Special attack EVs. Can be optimized for getting key KOs by dropping some attack for special attack, depending on how the metagame shapes up.
-Dragon Dance
-Overheat
-Dragon Claw\Outrage
-Earthquake\Flare Blitz
It's basically a combo of the two sets mentioned above. Thoughts?
Of course, the mentioned Dragon Dance could patch up the speed problem, so a mixed DD set meant for sweeping first and wallbreaking second probably has a lot more potential. Something like...
Mega Charizard X
Hasty\Naive Nature
252 Speed, 252 Attack, 4 Special attack EVs. Can be optimized for getting key KOs by dropping some attack for special attack, depending on how the metagame shapes up.
-Dragon Dance
-Overheat
-Dragon Claw\Outrage
-Earthquake\Flare Blitz
It's basically a combo of the two sets mentioned above. Thoughts?
Why would you be better off using Salamence when it has the same speed? Kyurem and Mega Chomp are even slower.
I like this a lot. DD solves the speed problem partially and also combined with Tough Claws gives us immense Phys power. The only question is what moves to run. Dragon Claw means we aren't locked in like Outrage, prime for a Fairy to switch in and hammer poor Zard. Plus it gets the boosts off STAB and TC with no confusion afterwards. That just leaves the last move, as you said, either EQ or FB. I would probably go for Flare Blitz, we get the STAB boost plus Tough Claw boost
. Whereas we hit everything that EQ can super neutrally with Dragon Claw aside from steel, and with Flare Blitz that's covered.
Again the prime issues for this set are SR and giving Zard the chance it needs to set up a DD. But with potential support like Sticky Web and the defense boosts gained on MegaEvo I'm guessing MegaZard X, with the correct support can become pretty scary :3
That is because they offer more consistent benefits while having just about the same speed. Salamence can run Life Orb to match\exceed the power MegazardX has, without taking up your Mega slot. Admittedly Fire STAB is better than Flying, but I feel like it gets the job done. Meanwhile Megachomp and Kyurem-B all provide a MUCH larger amount of power for wallbreaking, and have similar, if not higher bulky.
I'm just saying that as a standalone wallbreaker, Megazard seems to be somewhat outclassed(but by no means bad), but a mixed sweeping has a lot of potential and quite a few things it can brag about the other options can't.
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