Move Sticky Web

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Mattman324 said:
No, I admit I haven't, because the only online service that allows something reasonable to hold Gen6 is Pokémon Online and they don't have reasonably updated movepools for the old pokemon.

The way my theoretical team is built, however, is effectively able to handle both that core and Sticky Web without actually having to take effectiveness out of it.
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any team 100% built to counter sticky web is a shithole of a team that gets wrecked by anything
anything not preparing for sticky web enough is also quite a shithole of a team

this is what I like to call the genesect syndrome, which is basically when a pokemon can't be effectively countered completely without having to resort to a trash team

which is essentially what sticky web fits the bill for, also, PO is more updated than showdown, depending if you consider serebii a reliable source or not.
 
OiawesomeDG said:
this is what I like to call the genesect syndrome, which is basically when a pokemon can't be effectively countered completely without having to resort to a trash team
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Could this have less to do with sticky web and more to do with Blaziken being broken as shit? I mean, take a ridiculous pokemon last gen, add Baton Pass w/ Speed boost and a stronger (if you used Air Balloon/Lefties on your Ken last year) form, then let it loose on a developing metagame, and it stands to reason most things will be ill-prepared for it, especially when few new ones can touch it. Nobody is going to run Slowking + Heatran (which should probably beat Keldeo + Ken + Sticky Web) when there's all new shit to test. And that isn't a "Trash Team", I don't believe
 
Shrug said:
Could this have less to do with sticky web and more to do with Blaziken being broken as shit? I mean, take a ridiculous pokemon last gen, add Baton Pass w/ Speed boost and a stronger (if you used Air Balloon/Lefties on your Ken last year) form, then let it loose on a developing metagame, and it stands to reason most things will be ill-prepared for it, especially when few new ones can touch it. Nobody is going to run Slowking + Heatran (which should probably beat Keldeo + Ken + Sticky Web) when there's all new shit to test. And that isn't a "Trash Team", I don't believe
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252 SpA Galvantula Thunder vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 218-258 (55.47 - 65.64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk M-Blaziken Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Slowking: 236-278 (60.05 - 70.73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk M-Blaziken ThunderPunch vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Slowking: 252-298 (64.12 - 75.82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk M-Blaziken Hi Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 518-612 (160.37 - 189.47%) -- guaranteed OHKO

and if you choose greninja or starmie over keldeo
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 153-182 (38.93 - 46.31%) -- guaranteed 3HKO while you fear absolutely nothing from slowking other than something stupid like shadow ball
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 198-234 (51.38 - 59.54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

you get the point, yeah part of this does have to do with mega blaze, but sticky web does really create a stale and stupid meta from what i've seen, It may be a different experience when smogon tiering comes out/I may be wrong
 
you get the point, yeah part of this does have to do with mega blaze, but sticky web does really create a stale and stupid meta from what i've seen, It may be a different experience when smogon tiering comes out/I may be wrong
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I just don't get what any of this has to do with sticky web, what does Sticky Web help with in this core? I think that's the point
 
Oh I don't know, lets say slow down everything in their tracks in an offensive team?
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Is that different from Speed Boost though? Where you outspeed everything on an offensive team?
 
Flying types aren't affected by Sticky Web. Get one faster than Galvantula (not entirely difficult) or Blaziken at base and pick the core apart. Oh, and since you're forcing Keldio into the core, he's weak as well!

So yes, Talonflame - freaking TALONFLAME - can kill all three of those 1v1. I'm sorry, that's not a good indicator of power in my book.
 
Mattman324 said:
Flying types aren't affected by Sticky Web. Get one faster than Galvantula (not entirely difficult) or Blaziken at base and pick the core apart.
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Remember that Sticky Web doesn't reduce Speed until a switch occurs, so you don't actually have to switch a Flying-type into Galvantula. When you see Galvantula, sending in Speed Boost Blaziken is probably the best counter. Galvantua can't do too much to Blaziken (aside from Thunder, but I'm assuming this is a Protect/Blaze Kick/Sky Uppercut/Baton Pass Blaziken), and Blaziken can easily set up 2 or 3 Speed Boosts (possibly even wiping out Galvantula in the process), and then Baton Passing when it gets too hot, allowing the recipient to get a Speed Boost that counters Sticky Web.
 
Kriptini said:
Remember that Sticky Web doesn't reduce Speed until a switch occurs, so you don't actually have to switch a Flying-type into Galvantula. When you see Galvantula, sending in Speed Boost Blaziken is probably the best counter. Galvantua can't do too much to Blaziken (aside from Thunder, but I'm assuming this is a Protect/Blaze Kick/Sky Uppercut/Baton Pass Blaziken), and Blaziken can easily set up 2 or 3 Speed Boosts (possibly even wiping out Galvantula in the process), and then Baton Passing when it gets too hot, allowing the recipient to get a Speed Boost that counters Sticky Web.
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I'm referring to IF it gets set up, and IF I can't get rid of it, which is two very big ifs with the team I intend to run (in theory, at least). Sereously, it's no perfect core if Mega Blastoise + Talonflame can stop it dead.
 
Moving on from Blaziken, I think Sticky Web will contribute to a greater balance of playstyles this gen. Doesn't make sense? Here's the logic, with the assumptions:
- Three types of teams can be considered: Bulky offence, which will focus mainly on using powerful moves off of high stats, but will be on the slower end; Fast hyper offense, which aims to kill everything quickly with powerful moves, and stall, which doesn't care much about attacking. Weather-based offense is assumed to be a tactic similar to manual weather or Trick Room: existent, but not a threat to be majorly accountable for.
- A user of Sticky Web is an inferior option if Sticky Web is not needed (Considering how Gavantula didn't see much use last gen, this makes sense)
- Bulky offense will have two iterations: with Sticky Web and Without it. Using it helps beat Fast offense, but not using it gives it another weapon against stall, due to Gavantula being easily dealt with.
- Fast offense can also use or not use sticky web, considering who they want to beat

as such (these are clearly generalizations, some teams of some types will beat others against these clearly):

Fast offense w/ Sticky Web = Fast offense with/ SW (Clearly a wash; the better team should win)
Fast Offense W/ Sticky Web > Fast offense without sticky Web (Faster team wins)
Fast offense W/ Sticky Web > Bulky offense with Sticky Web (If both have it, the faster team should win a 5 v 5 if it's well built)
Fast offense W/ Sticky Web < Bulky Offense without Stick Web (A bulky team shouldn't lose 6 v 5s)
Fast offense W/ Sticky Web < Stall (Stall really shouldn't lose 6 v 5 games either)

Fast Offense Without SW = Fast offense without SW (Wash)
Fast Offense without < Bulky offense with SW (Slower less bulky team gets railroaded)
Fast Offense without > Bulky Offense without (Faster team wins)
Fast Offense Without = Stall (6 v 6 Draw)

Bulky Offense with = Bulk offense with (Tie)
Bulky offense with > Bulky O without (Speed wins)
Bulky O with < Stall ( 5 v 6)

Bulky o without = Bulky O without (tie)
Bulky O without > Stall (Overpowers the stall w/ Bulk too)

Stall = Stall

Wow that was pointless, anyway it stacks up
Fast With: 2 wins 2 losses 1 tie
Fast without: 1 win 2 losses 2 ties
Bulky with: 2 wins 2 losses 1 tie
Bulky Offense without: 1 win 3 losses 1 tie
Stall: 2 Wins 1 loss 2 ties


So it doesn't seem like anything is too overpowered based solely on matchup. The brilliance of Sticky Web's distribution means that you basically have to give up a teamslot for it (if you can't deal with Gavantula, the pokemon itself, then maybe your issues are bigger than sticky web) but it's good enough to justify it. So it really comes down to teambuilding, but your offensive team must be REALLY well built to beat stall essentially a pokemon down
 
Shrug said:
Moving on from Blaziken, I think Sticky Web will contribute to a greater balance of playstyles this gen. Doesn't make sense? Here's the logic, with the assumptions:
- Three types of teams can be considered: Bulky offence, which will focus mainly on using powerful moves off of high stats, but will be on the slower end; Fast hyper offense, which aims to kill everything quickly with powerful moves, and stall, which doesn't care much about attacking. Weather-based offense is assumed to be a tactic similar to manual weather or Trick Room: existent, but not a threat to be majorly accountable for.
- A user of Sticky Web is an inferior option if Sticky Web is not needed (Considering how Gavantula didn't see much use last gen, this makes sense)
- Bulky offense will have two iterations: with Sticky Web and Without it. Using it helps beat Fast offense, but not using it gives it another weapon against stall, due to Gavantula being easily dealt with.
- Fast offense can also use or not use sticky web, considering who they want to beat

as such (these are clearly generalizations, some teams of some types will beat others against these clearly):

Fast offense w/ Sticky Web = Fast offense with/ SW (Clearly a wash; the better team should win)
Fast Offense W/ Sticky Web > Fast offense without sticky Web (Faster team wins)
Fast offense W/ Sticky Web > Bulky offense with Sticky Web (If both have it, the faster team should win a 5 v 5 if it's well built)
Fast offense W/ Sticky Web < Bulky Offense without Stick Web (A bulky team shouldn't lose 6 v 5s)
Fast offense W/ Sticky Web < Stall (Stall really shouldn't lose 6 v 5 games either)

Fast Offense Without SW = Fast offense without SW (Wash)
Fast Offense without < Bulky offense with SW (Slower less bulky team gets railroaded)
Fast Offense without > Bulky Offense without (Faster team wins)
Fast Offense Without = Stall (6 v 6 Draw)

Bulky Offense with = Bulk offense with (Tie)
Bulky offense with > Bulky O without (Speed wins)
Bulky O with < Stall ( 5 v 6)

Bulky o without = Bulky O without (tie)
Bulky O without > Stall (Overpowers the stall w/ Bulk too)

Stall = Stall

Wow that was pointless, anyway it stacks up
Fast With: 2 wins 2 losses 1 tie
Fast without: 1 win 2 losses 2 ties
Bulky with: 2 wins 2 losses 1 tie
Bulky Offense without: 1 win 3 losses 1 tie
Stall: 2 Wins 1 loss 2 ties


So it doesn't seem like anything is too overpowered based solely on matchup. The brilliance of Sticky Web's distribution means that you basically have to give up a teamslot for it (if you can't deal with Gavantula, the pokemon itself, then maybe your issues are bigger than sticky web) but it's good enough to justify it. So it really comes down to teambuilding, but your offensive team must be REALLY well built to beat stall essentially a pokemon down
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Galvantula isn't entirely useless in the stall matchup IMO, since it is a pretty strong special attacker (and cannot be paralyzed). Realistically, if you don't need it for the Sticky Web you can always use it as a Skarmory check or just an attacker (its just as fast as Terrakion and hits decently hard). For Sticky web, this set looks like one of the best options:

Galvantula @ Focus Sash/Life Orb
Unnerve Ability
Timid Nature
EVs: 4def 252SAtk 252Spe
Thunderbolt
Energy Ball
Bug Buzz/Volt Switch/Sucker Punch/Hidden Power Ice/Taunt
Sticky Web
Sticky Web is obvious enough, but Unnerve is crucial in letting you beat Custap + Sturdy from things like Skarmory or Sturdy Rock Types. TBolt (not Thunder since you aren't using Compound Eyes) and Energy Ball (I do not think you can get Giga Drain with Web) brings them down to sturdy while Unnerve stops Custap from working. Sash is obvious, but you could try LO if that floats your boat. Last move is either Bug Buzz for STAB (and your strongest move against Grass types), HP Ice for coverage (though the nerf on Hidden Power makes it less useful), Volt Switch for utility (only if using LO). Sucker Punch is for priority (albeit weak and unreliable) and Taunt stops your opponent from setting up hazards or taunting you.

Also, Aegislash is probably the best partner for this set, since he can pick off weakened leads (and bypass the now-useable custap) and spinblock (just be careful of excadrill). Frankly, even if you are not setting up sticky web you still have a check to skarmory and bulky waters (useful for the stall matchup).
 
I posted this elsewhere but lead ambipom beats lead galvantula at least. Are most people setting up the web on turn 1 with sash galvantula, or are the games more thought out and a LO Galvantula is pulling it's weight?
 
Haruno said:
Sticky Web
bug.gif
physical.png
20----The user weaves a sticky net around the opposing team, which lowers their Speed stat upon switching into battle.

So it seems like a new entry hazard in a sense and it also gives you a massive advantage over your opponent if you keep it on their side without it being on your own. Atm we don't know what learns it bar smeargle but something tells me this is another fun new toy it gets. Any thoughts on it?
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Hey Haruno I think you need to update the OP to inform that Sticky Web is NOT an attacking move. It may cause a bit of confusion otherwise. Serebii is wrong as of now.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/stickyweb-jpg.2241/
 
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Say you have sticky web on the field an your opponent switches into a Gengar, Alakazam, or Charizard. At first none of them are affected by sticky web (due to Levitate, Magic Guard, and Flying type respectively). If your opponent mega evolves their Pokemon (in this example I'm talking about mega evolving Charizard into Charizard X) would the Pokemon immediately get hit by sticky web or would sticky web not affect the Pokemon until it switches back in at a later point in the battle?
 
Bedlington said:
Say you have sticky web on the field an your opponent switches into a Gengar, Alakazam, or Charizard. At first none of them are affected by sticky web (due to Levitate, Magic Guard, and Flying type respectively). If your opponent mega evolves their Pokemon (in this example I'm talking about mega evolving Charizard into Charizard X) would the Pokemon immediately get hit by sticky web or would sticky web not affect the Pokemon until it switches back in at a later point in the battle?
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It would not affect them until they switch out and then back in.
 
Where exactly did you hear about Shuckle getting Sticky Web? It's not on the research thread, and I haven't heard of anyone successfully breeding it onto Shuckle.
 
Gary2346 said:
Where exactly did you hear about Shuckle getting Sticky Web? It's not on the research thread, and I haven't heard of anyone successfully breeding it onto Shuckle.
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Post 73. I would link but my phones being kinda iffy with copy and paste.
 
Gary2346 said:
Where exactly did you hear about Shuckle getting Sticky Web? It's not on the research thread, and I haven't heard of anyone successfully breeding it onto Shuckle.
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Here. Apparently it can be learned by offering a Heart Scale to a move tutor.

And yeah, while Shuckle learning sticky web might be awesome for it, after using it, it's hard trying to figure out what to do with it afterwards.
 
Geez. Balanced and offensive teams will need to carry a reliable spinner like such as excadrill if they want to use fast grounded sweepers like chomp or M-Lucario, or be forced to use flyers/levitators. Galvantula will see a lot of usage solely because of sticky web.

Does anyone know if gengar gets it's speed lowered right after it mega-evolves if sticky web is up on it's side of the field?
 
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