Other Good Cores

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Aegislash+Chesnaught+Snorlax

Resists all 18 types

Aegislash is immune to poison, fighting, and normal, and also resists ice, flying, psychic, fairy, covering most of Chesnaught's weaknesses and Snorlax's fighting weakness. Chesnaught covers ground and dark attacks, as well as some key ghost and fighting attacks (Shadow Ball, Focus Blast and Aura Sphere). And Thick Fat Snorlax is immune to ghost and caries a resistance to ice and fire covering Aegislash and Chesnaught. These resistances combined with Aegislash and Chesnaught's scouting abilities with King's Shield and Spiky Shield create a great defensive advantage. And if you run a Rest Talk Snorlax you can absorb status to keep Aegislash sweeping.
 
Im thinking of something like Trevenant and Heatran. Heatran counters all of Trevanants weaknesses outside of Ghost/Dark now but its still very bulky. Trevanant does have Heatran completely covered though. Trev also has Natural Cure to absorb status and can Rest to full before switching out. If Trev uses Leech Seed and WoW/Toxic, Heatran can use the more viable trapping moves Fire Spin or his exclusive Magma Storm. With some combination of Protect/Taunt/Torment/Substitute/Toxic/WoW of his own the user will be dead in no time and if Leech Seed remains it provides good healing with Leftovers. Other Heatran have no problems against this though, so perhaps a Greninja to take Dark/Ghost hits for Trevenant can threaten Heatran and also provide potential burns with Scald and Spikes to rack up switch damage. Access to U Turn really helps maintain the pivot momentum and you have one nasty FWG core right there.
 
GrislyBear said:
One core I plan on testing is Hydreigon/Aegislash.

Their resistances pair up perfectly and they can easily remove each others counters. Give them some SR or sticky Web and you have a recipe for destruction.
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Hmm... I was originally thinking that, since Hydreigon was mediocre last gen and both Dragon and Dark are mostly being nerfed, it would be not great in OU. But the newer metagame seems like it will be less hyper-offensive and more bulky / semi-stall this gen, which Hydreigon's massive power and immunity to two typings can take advantage of. And since Hydreigon annihilates Skarmory, Bronzong, Gliscor, Sableye and Malamar (arguably the biggest checks / counters to Aegislash) without a second thought, I gotta admit, you might be onto something here. Have a cookie on me :)

Rofl Pwny said:
What hazard users were you thinking about for this core? And will Hydreigon actually be playable, even with Aegislash back-up, considering his extreme weakness to Fairy types?
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Salamence and Dragonite and Garchomp are all 4x weak to Ice. Gyarados is 4x weak to Electric. Heatran is 4x weak to Ground. Scizor is 4x weak to Fire etc etc. Having an extreme weakness doesn't mean something isn't useable. And yes, Fairies resist / are immune to both of its STABs, but Hydreigon has arguably the biggest movepool of any non-uber Special Attacker (and can easily go mixed) and a massive base 125 SpA to go along with it. I have no doubt it will make its mark this gen, perhaps even more so than last gen.
 
The-Me said:
So I did some thinking over Showdown forum. Scolipede buff and Hydreigon nerf (:<) clicked in my head.

hydreigon.gif
scolipede.gif
[Insert a Steel type of choice here]

Check this trio out.
Hydreigon 4x weak to Fairy, resisted by Scolipede.
Drei 2x weak to Fighting, resisted by Scoli.
Drei 2x weak to Bug, resisted by Scoli.

Scoli 2x weak to Psychic, Drei immune.
Scoli 2x weak to Fire, resisted by Drei.

Drei 2x weak to Ice;
Drei 2x weak to Dragon;
Scoli 2x weak to Rock;
Scoli 2x weak to Flying;
resisted by Steel type.

And Steel is weak to Fighting, Fire, Ground and stuff, I guess DreiScoli resist them. Also DreiScoli offer special/physical offensive core. Needs testing though.
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Scolipede just is too frail to be considered part of a defensive core, and on top of that, it has a SR-weakness AND no means of recovery AND not even a good defensive typing; in other words, it doesn't really matter what it resists because the opposing pokemon just needs a neutral move to OHKO it, which it is quite likely to have. It has horrible offensive stats, too. So your "core" will be broken through by anything that Scoli is supposed to defend against, and Scolipede won't break through any physical walls anytime soon, either. Better stay with Hydreigon/Aegislash and use Scoli just as an "extra" who lays down hazards/baton passes and occasionally kills specific dark-types that hydreigon struggles against instead of using it as a dedicated part of a core.
 
Apologies for the long post. I've been thinking about a core and came across the following 3. Part of the reason I'm posting this is to get some kind of feedback as to why this wouldn't work. If you have any suggestions as to how to improve this I'm all ears.


Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Wish
Scald
Ice Beam
Protect

Pretty generic setup for Vaporeon to my understanding. Essentially acting as a special wall and wish support.

M-Mawile
Sucker Punch
Foul Play/Iron Head
Swords Dance
Play Rough

Physical bulk, but an offensive theat none the less wish Huge Power. I'd be giving it HP and one of the defenses as EVs. I can see it doing some damage with its typing coupled with wish support. SD Sucker punches seem like they'd be effective with good prediction.

Galvantula @ Focus Sash/Life Orb
Volt Switch
Sticky Web/Thunder
Bug Buzz
U-Turn

This might be the part where I'm off base. Galvantula would be acting as my lead. The reason for V-switch and U-turn is that he can attack them and leave without actually taking damage. Life Orb and Thunder to attempt to beat things faster than it (flying types and Starmie comes to mind.) after hopefully surviving their initial attack.
 
Would a core of Heatran-Dragonite-Gardevoir work?

Heatran:

Pros
  • With Flash Fire, he has two immunities, one of which hurts Gardevoir
  • Has five double resistances, of which Ice and Fairy hurts Dragonite and Steel hurts Gardevoir
  • Has a solid 130 special attack
  • Scares away Scizor who threaten Gardevoir
  • Has access to support in Stealth Rock and Roar, if need be
  • Has decent defenses and plenty of resistances
Cons
  • A double weakness to Ground moves (covered by Dragonite)
  • A base 77 speed
  • No reliable recovery
  • Is not yet available (but this does not really matter in the long run)

Gardevoir

Pros
  • An immunity to Dragon moves that hit Dragonite, and a double resistance to Fighting moves that could threaten Heatran, and then turn around and hit them with a STAB
  • Can be used offensively or for support,
    • Access to Wish, Hypnosis, Will-o-Wisp, Thunder Wave, Encore, Screens, and Trick for support. Wish helps Heatran some
    • Access to Moonblast, which hits fighting, Psychic covers its own weakness, Thunderbolt, Shadow Ball, which also hits its own weakness, and others, which provide nice coverage
      • 252 SAtk Timid Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SDef Latios: 281-330 (93.36 - 109.63%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
      • 252 SAtk Timid Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252 SDef Calm Latias: 184-216 (50.55 - 59.34%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  • With Trick, it could run a Scarf and have 120 speed
  • Has a high Special Attack at 125 and Special Defense at 115
  • Has the option to Mega-Evolve with even higher Special stats (165 SAtk/135 SDef), but this likely won't be selected
    • If the Mega is used, STAB Hyper Voice can be used to bypass Subs
    • She gets a decent speed boost
  • Is no longer trapped by Pursuit
  • Trace
Cons
  • Poor Physical Defense (65) and Hp (68). This is pretty big against her.
  • A low speed, with an 80 base
  • Low speed when not a Mega, and not too great even then
  • Holds the one of the two weakness not covered defensively by this core, in Ghost type moves, but can be managed by a Normal teammate
  • She will likely need Leftovers support, which is lost on the Mega
  • A weakness to Poison and Steel (both are covered by Heatran)

Dragonite

Pros
  • Multiscale, and a decent bulk to go with it
  • A reliable recovery in Roost
  • Can take Ground (immune), Water, and Fighting moves meant for Heatran
  • A large 134 base Attack
  • Has access to a priority in Extremespeed, Dragon Dance, Thunder Wave, and a good supply of strategies and usable moves, both in support and offense
  • Is not affected by Sticky Web or Spikes
Cons
  • A double weakness (which is covered by Heatran)
  • Multiscale is broken by Stealth Rock, which hurts it more than normal anyway, and sandstorms and hail
  • A low speed at base 80 (partially negated by Dragon Dance)

All three of these pokemon suffer from a rather poor speed, comparatively speaking, so they benefit much from Sticky Web and/or Paralysis support. Because of this, Galvantula may be a good roamer or suicide lead, as long as the opposing spinner is taken out. Also because of this, Defog may not be as useful on this team. A spinner is helpful for both Dragonite and Gardevoir, in removing Stealth Rock.

Ferrothorn would also be a good teammate here. It can stun and seed and lay traps, and both of its major weakness, Fire and Fighting, are covered in this core. A physically defensive Gardevoir is capable of tanking fighting moves, as
  • 252 Atk Adamant Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Gardevoir: 49-57 (14.41 - 16.76%) -- ~7HKO after Stealth Rock
This is a bit costly to her offensive role, however, and demands that she be a support-type, but I feel that she has the potential to be usable. She just needs to stay away from physical moves that she does not resist, which is where Ferrothorn comes in.

Electric, Ghost, and Rock attacks squeeze in-between the defensive coverage of this core, however, where Gardevoir is hit by Ghost and Rock hits Dragonite. If Gardevoir is offensive, Shadow Ball hits ghosts, but Shadow Sneak is a worry, and a Flash Cannon from Heatran can take care of rocks and ice types.

I don't have move sets for these, I'm waiting on that for now, but this core interested me. I know that I probably missed a few things here, and I know that I am not as experienced a battler as most of the people here, as I have been self-taught since Gen IV, but I was curious as to what some more knowledgeable battlers would think of this core.
 
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Pangoro @ Choice Scarf
Jolly, Iron Fist
252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
~ Parting Shot
~ Crunch
~ Sky Uppercut
~ Rock Slide (Pursuit if it gets it)

Wobbuffet @ Leftovers
Jolly, Shadow Tag
252 HP, 240 Speed, 16 SpDef
~ Encore
~ Tickle
~ Counter
~ Mirror Coat

It's almost like Pangoro was created just for Wobbuffet. Pangoro easily switches in to Ghost and Dark moves and can Parting Shot stuff to aid Wobbuffet. Any offensive Pokemon Parting Shot'ed to Wobbuffet is obviously a free KO. If Pangoro gets Pursuit (as far as I know it doesn't, but I'm not sure), the core gets even better. Wobbuffet can Encore-Tickle slower defensive 'mons for Pangoro, who can eliminate them with Pursuit. Slap on a Pokemon with Wish to keep these guys healthy and you're set.
 
my team if blaziken is OU in this gen ,

Blaziken Venusaur Gardevoir, Hydreigon, Aerodactyl, Aegislash

reasoning
speedboost blaziken with lonely nature move set with life orb, protect skyuppercut and tbd for other 2,
venusaur moveset tbd upon blaziken
gardevoir Mega evo..
hydreigon has a massive special attack bonus using choice specs it can 1Hit many pokes with dracometeor
Aerodactyl, moveset and typing with mega evo(not used with gardevoir in 3v3)
Aegislash nuff said
 
DracoSlash has already been mentioned under various pairings throughout this thread.
-I'd just like to catergorize the whole idea of the core under one name because the core itself has so much potential to work on any type of team!

Of course, the (Klef)Key to the core is the newfound wondermon, Aegislash.
As what can only appropriately be named 'Fairy's Bane', the way it can deal with the Dragons' new weakness is currently the most efficient I've personally seen this gen. This of course is reason enough to pair it with the powerhouses of generations past; yet an even more relevant reason is evident.

Its diversity.

For example:

Need something to take physical hits and retaliate, while carrying a strong priority?

Aegislash@ Lefites
Careful
252HP/132Atk/120SpDef
-King's Shield
-Sacred Sword
-Iron Head
-Shadow Sneak

To take a hit; an Ice Beam/Dazzling Gleam for Garchomp or Dragonite; before either inducing mind games with King's Shield or getting a solid enough hit away on either what it's checked or what switches in for it. Possibly forming a defensive core and working a bulkier offensive stance, something tipped to be ever popular this gen http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/bulky-offense-the-king-of-xy.3490386/

Something packing a bit more 'strongth'? Maybe a secondary sweeper? Maybe even your primary offensive threat?

Beastislash@ LO/Lefties
Adamant
252HP/252Atk/4SpDef
-King's Shield
-Swords Dance
-Shadow Sneak
-Iron Head/Sacred Sword

Like a truck, this will mow down the remains of teams. Chipping away at the opposition's defensive threats with Dragon's is much less stressful when you know you have this monster covering their backs. Hydreigon's new Fairy check will still fail to really dent this mighty shield as it dances in their faces, and other offensive and faster threats such as Salamence and ScarfChomp will rest knowing that they can be switched out at a moment's notice to a check which can keep the offensive momentum going. With a boosted priority and access to a psuedo-Protect that even softens up your physical counters, late game cleaning just got easier.

Something more niche? Capitalizing on the lack of power creep this gen, a full defensive set could work wonders with any Dragon's carrying great bulk and/or spDef *cough* GOODRA *cough*...

WallOfSwords@ Rocky Helmet/Lefties
Relaxed
252HP/252Def/4Atk
-King's Shield
-Toxic/Thunder
-Shadow Sneak
-Iron Head/ Sacred Sword

Working off of Goodra's pitiful physical everything defense, Aegislash can even come in as a basic utility: working either as a status spreader or a stall unit. Of course, this doesn't work just with the Goomeister: any Dragon will be grateful for something to switch into to avoid Ice/Fairy/Rock/ moves for the standard dragons, aswell as Bug/Fighting on top for Hydreigon too.

Of course, these are all rather brief, but the emphasis must be placed on the compatibility of Dragon and Aegislash. The Dragon's may not have to worry about the Fairies just yet.
 
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Noivern + Greninja + Galvantula <3

Decent defensive synergy, but this is a solid offensive core I've been using! (in the actual game though, so I've had to breed each one with 5-6 perfect IVs o_O)

- Noivern is very fast and packs great coverage + high BP moves to make up for its average (at best) Special Attack.
- Greninja getting STAB on literally everything is powerful offensively, and the type changes often force your opponent to think a level deeper.
- Galvantula was honestly chosen for Sticky Web, but it's super cool aesthetically and packs a unique STAB combination.

Aside from obvious VoltTurn shenanigans... Noivern can also provide Tailwind, Greninja can lay out its preferred set of Spikes, and of course Galvantula sets up the ultra-hyped Sticky Web. :]
I'm also thinking of adding Mega Kangaskhan to be both a wallbreaker and an emergency check to stuff that gets out of control.
 
The Great Gastly said:
Noivern + Greninja + Galvantula <3

Decent defensive synergy, but this is a solid offensive core I've been using! (in the actual game though, so I've had to breed each one with 5-6 perfect IVs o_O)

- Noivern is very fast and packs great coverage + high BP moves to make up for its average (at best) Special Attack.
- Greninja getting STAB on literally everything is powerful offensively, and the type changes often force your opponent to think a level deeper.
- Galvantula was honestly chosen for Sticky Web, but it's super cool aesthetically and packs a unique STAB combination.

Aside from obvious VoltTurn shenanigans... Noivern can also provide Tailwind, Greninja can lay out its preferred set of Spikes, and of course Galvantula sets up the ultra-hyped Sticky Web. :]
I'm also thinking of adding Mega Kangaskhan to be both a wallbreaker and an emergency check to stuff that gets out of control.
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I was thinking something like this except Talonflame/CharX in place of Noivern. The problem I'm finding it finding 3 more pokemon that go along well with it. It definitely needs a spinner, probably a spinblocker, and a special wallbreaker but I can't find Pokes that fill those rolls and still mesh with the team.
 
Chubbin said:
I was thinking something like this except Talonflame/CharX in place of Noivern. The problem I'm finding it finding 3 more pokemon that go along well with it. It definitely needs a spinner, probably a spinblocker, and a special wallbreaker but I can't find Pokes that fill those rolls and still mesh with the team.
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Yeah a spinner is necessary for sure. Excadrill comes to mind. :O

A spin-blocker can take the form of Mega Banette or Mega Gengar, but I don't know if that role is entirely necessary considering Defog's buff...
 
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Foo Fighter said:
Aegislash+Chesnaught+Snorlax

Resists all 18 types

Aegislash is immune to poison, fighting, and normal, and also resists ice, flying, psychic, fairy, covering most of Chesnaught's weaknesses and Snorlax's fighting weakness. Chesnaught covers ground and dark attacks, as well as some key ghost and fighting attacks (Shadow Ball, Focus Blast and Aura Sphere). And Thick Fat Snorlax is immune to ghost and caries a resistance to ice and fire covering Aegislash and Chesnaught. These resistances combined with Aegislash and Chesnaught's scouting abilities with King's Shield and Spiky Shield create a great defensive advantage. And if you run a Rest Talk Snorlax you can absorb status to keep Aegislash sweeping.
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I hate to "be the guy" to do this, but the problem with looking at "types" as your target is that it is somewhat irrelevant when it comes to battles. For example, your entire core team can't do jack diddly to Life Orb Dragon Dance MixMence. If Mix-Salamence gets a Dragon Dance at an even start against any of those pokemon, your entire core is dead. DD / Fire Blast / Earthquake / Outrage. +1 Outrage kills Snorelax, +1 EQ takes out Aegislash, Fire Blast takes out Chesnaut. It is important to remember that "Cores" are built to handle Pokemon, not types.

Mega Gengar also remains a threat: 2HKOing Snorelax with Focus Blast, OHKOing Aegislash with Shadow Ball, and hurting Chesnaught pretty hard.

Because thats the thing: your post has a good "types analysis" to it. Unfortunately, that is not where high-level play lies. If a 3-Pokemon core is swept away by a single threat, it probably isn't a very good core. I'm singling your post out not necessarily because you're wrong. (On paper, everything you said is correct). However, this type-based methodology you used is flawed to begin with.
 
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Shrilakkigan said:
Would a core of Heatran-Dragonite-Gardevoir work?
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Mamoswine wrecks it.
(Mega-)Gengar, too
Every physical dragon with EQ at +1 (Garchomp, Salamence, Haxorus , opposing Dragonite) also will punch through with ease (sure, Gardevoir is immune to dragon itself, but any coverage move should OHKO it); If you don't scarf one of your mons, they don't even need to be at +1
SR will make short work of your dragonite, so spinning isn't just nice-to-have, it's mandatory

These are all very common threats, and only the ones that immediately came to my mind, so there probably are more. The most obvious problem, to start with something, of your core is that you completely lack a physical wall(heatran has decent stats, but fighting/ground coverage is just waay to common for pysical attackers), so actually any decently fast/strong physical attacker can completely pick your core apart. Dragonite also imho is just to spinning-reliant to be considered part of a core UNLESS a spinner itself is also already in the core.
 
I'm thinking Gyarados/MegaSaur/Ttar.

Gyarados takes care of MegaLucario with EQ, MegaSaur can sponge MegaGyarados with Substitute and Ttar wrecks MegaAlakazam.

MegaGengar is annoying to deal with because of the added bulk and possible Sub, so I'd have to sacrifice Ttar to take it out. Or bring Wish support.

MegaScizor depends on which set. If it's specially bulky, Gyarados can easily take it.

MegaAero is a problem.

MegaAggron is just indestructible with RestStalk.
 
I'm a bit new to all this as well. But for a Fairy/Steel Core I was thinking Mega Lucario and Sylveon, with Garchomp as my main sweep. Lucario will have amazing STAB Close Combat boosted by Adapability and Sylveon has great special Defense. If I lead with Chomp I can bait with a banded outrage, then swap in Lucario on their Fairy type in order to get a free SD Boost. Then sweep close combat, and hold the Sylveon for any strong fighting types or potential Dragon type sweepers.

Mind you this is a temp team until poke transfer is up. After that i'm leading Aero instead of Metagross and leading him into a core role and somehow fitting my Sub Seed Venusaur and BP Scizor into this. But idk, if I keep Lucario then wouldn't 3 steel types be to much?
 
What about Mega Absol/Scizor/Chandelure?

Absol is weak to fighting, bug, and fairy - Chandelure covers fighting, Scizor covers bug, both cover fairy.
Chandelure w/ Flash Fire covers Scizor's big fire weakness and gets a buff from it.
Absol covers Chandelure's ghost and dark weaknesses, and can baton pass swords dance boosts to Scizor.

I'm thinking about using this core on a team with sticky web support, since none of these guys are very fast for an offensive core.
 
CQC said:
Mamoswine wrecks it.
(Mega-)Gengar, too
Every physical dragon with EQ at +1 (Garchomp, Salamence, Haxorus , opposing Dragonite) also will punch through with ease (sure, Gardevoir is immune to dragon itself, but any coverage move should OHKO it); If you don't scarf one of your mons, they don't even need to be at +1
SR will make short work of your dragonite, so spinning isn't just nice-to-have, it's mandatory

These are all very common threats, and only the ones that immediately came to my mind, so there probably are more. The most obvious problem, to start with something, of your core is that you completely lack a physical wall(heatran has decent stats, but fighting/ground coverage is just waay to common for pysical attackers), so actually any decently fast/strong physical attacker can completely pick your core apart. Dragonite also imho is just to spinning-reliant to be considered part of a core UNLESS a spinner itself is also already in the core.
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Alright, thank you for the analysis. So I need a physical sponge or wall, and Dragonite is no good here without an in-core spinner? Then I need to find a way to counter physical dragons?

Alright, I have a question first. I would like to build this core around Gardevoir. Is there a chance that she will make OU, or should I aim for a lower tier? If she is OU capable, then would Ferrothorn be a good place to start in building a core, then?
 
Chompy said:
I'm trying to form a team around Mega Ampharos, and I am not sure what would be a good core with Mega Ampharos?
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I know Ampharos is inferior in comparison to the likes of Gengar/Blaziken/Lucario and such (in terms of raw power and ability), but I wanted to throw Mega Ampharos in a OU environment and see how viable he is and who would be a good core.
 
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